What's a good point buy alternative for 4d6r1k3?

[AnonymousPepper]

Somebody I know is going to be DMing a Pathfinder game and starting off with that as the rolling option. She wants to offer a point buy alternative for people that don't want to roll. What would be a good PF point buy total that would serve as a good alternative for that (you know, slightly below average)?

The roll, in case somebody's not familiar, is 4d6, reroll 1s, keep the highest three. Pretty high roll for abilities but I ain't complaining.

[Vhaidara]

I'd say 30. I believe 4d6b3 is supposed to be about 25.

[With a box]

What 4d6r1k3 means?
4d6-1d3?

[Skya]

What 4d6r1k3 means?
4d6-1d3?

probably 4d6 reroll 1 keep 3.

[bjoern]

What 4d6r1k3 means?
4d6-1d3?

That's 1337 5934k bro.

:p

[Amphetryon]

probably 4d6 reroll 1 keep 3.

Precisely so. Incidentally, rerolling the 1s makes the expected Point Buy somewhere between 29 and 32, depending on whose math you trust.

[Crake]

If you reroll every 1, including those that appear on re-rolls themselves, then you essentially have 4d5k3 +3. From there it's pretty easy to calculate the distribution and find the average point buy per roll, then multiply by 6 for the total result. I can do the math quickly if you want.

Edit: Ok, numbers are in
with a minimum roll of 6, and if we treat 6 as -2 point buy and 7 as -1 point buy, you get an average of 6.2352 points per ability, for a total of 37.4112 point buy. For roll to point buy conversion though, i like to shave off a few points due to the lack of a random factor, which is also the case for 4d6k3 and the 25 point buy average people throw around (it's actually adds up to more like 27 if my memory serves me correctly).

Counting the 6s and 7s as 0 point buy in the calculation barely changes it, increasing the total point buy by about 0.07 overall, hardly even worth mentioning, but i'd imagine people will still bring it up regardless.

[Renen]

I say 32 point buy is the best point buy. Though in this case i think around 30 is equivalent.

[Doctor Awkward]

I hate rolling stats. Point Buy is very much preferred for me.
That said, my favorite roll method is 1d10+8, two sets.

[Crake]

I hate rolling stats. Point Buy is very much preferred for me.
That said, my favorite roll method is 1d10+8, two sets.

I like 2d6+6 myself. Minimum of 8, average of 13, but only a 1/36 chance for an 18

[Ninane]

Edit: Ok, numbers are in
with a minimum roll of 6, and if we treat 6 as -2 point buy and 7 as -1 point buy, you get an average of 6.2352 points per ability, for a total of 37.4112 point buy. For roll to point buy conversion though, i like to shave off a few points due to the lack of a random factor, which is also the case for 4d6k3 and the 25 point buy average people throw around (it's actually adds up to more like 27 if my memory serves me correctly).

Would you think a 32 buy would be too harsh a reduction then for the cost of a consistent spread? If so, would 34 be a better choice?

I'm the DM in question and I am so green that the grass envies my color, so >_> I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you everyone for your input so far. (Thank you AP for making the topic while I was busy.)

[Calimehter]

For the group I'm just starting with, my "backstop" for the 4d6(r1k3) rolling is the 4e array. That is, if anyone is unhappy with their rolls, they may default to an array of 16,14,13,12,11,10. This is slightly _above_ the average from rolling, but I figure if somebody rolls really high with the dice, using this will make the others feel less far behind than if I had gone with a below-average array. So far, it is working out quite well.

I am not a big fan of point buys anymore (they tend to favor SAD or DAD classes unless the point buy is very high) so I thought I would suggest the array as an alternative.

[Dysart]

I'd say 30. I believe 4d6b3 is supposed to be about 25.

I'd agree with Keledrath, I use a similar rolling system and when I was playing around with point systems the closest was 30 to make a nice even stat set.
Though the thing to remember is the rolling option has the highest risk vs reward option and the point buy system is the safest option.

[torrasque666]

For Pathfinder(which apparently, everyone else missed with their suggestions for 32ish point buy) I would suggest around 22. Its not "epic fantasy level" which is the 25 point buy level, but higher than "high fantasy"

[Vhaidara]

For Pathfinder(which apparently, everyone else missed with their suggestions for 32ish point buy) I would suggest around 22. Its not "epic fantasy level" which is the 25 point buy level, but higher than "high fantasy"

Actually, I did notice PF. I'm pretty sure 4d6b3 is supposed to be 25 point buy in PF.

[Crake]

For Pathfinder(which apparently, everyone else missed with their suggestions for 32ish point buy) I would suggest around 22. Its not "epic fantasy level" which is the 25 point buy level, but higher than "high fantasy"

oh damn, i totally missed that, i'll need to re-work the numbers to take that into account

Ok, so if we assume that 6 is -5 (following pathfinder's theme of -2 for dropping from even to odd, and -1 for dropping from odd to even) then for pathfinder, 4d5k3 +3 you'd get.... 29.8368 point buy, probably shave off to 28 or 27 imo though

[prufock]

Somebody I know is going to be DMing a Pathfinder game and starting off with that as the rolling option. She wants to offer a point buy alternative for people that don't want to roll. What would be a good PF point buy total that would serve as a good alternative for that (you know, slightly below average)?

The roll, in case somebody's not familiar, is 4d6, reroll 1s, keep the highest three. Pretty high roll for abilities but I ain't complaining.

In PF, 22-24. In 3.5, 32 points works. 4d6, reroll all 1s, take the best 3 dice averages to 13.43, which works out to three 13s and three 14s rounded up, or four 13s and two 14s rounded down.

[LoyalPaladin]

Would you think a 32 buy would be too harsh a reduction then for the cost of a consistent spread? If so, would 34 be a better choice?

I'm the DM in question and I am so green that the grass envies my color, so >_> I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you everyone for your input so far. (Thank you AP for making the topic while I was busy.)
My group uses a 34 buy, it usually puts us at a reasonable score. Hasn't broken the game yet!

[CGNefarious]

When I DM and do point buy I normally go with 33 points. It lets the PCs feel a little more powerful, since they have decent stats all around, and allows for more MAD classes, but since the cap is still 18 pre-racials it doesn't break anything. Some GMs prefer to use lower point buys to make the PCs struggle a bit more, but I prefer my PCs to feel like they're extraordinary. Plus I use the same build rules with any major NPCs I create, so it evens the playing field a bit.


When I first started playing we all just used stat arrays. And quite powerful ones. I believe it was 18 - 17 - 16 - 16 - 14 - 12. If you have a build that you can't accomplish with that array, you need to pick a different system.

[Pex]

Somebody I know is going to be DMing a Pathfinder game and starting off with that as the rolling option. She wants to offer a point buy alternative for people that don't want to roll. What would be a good PF point buy total that would serve as a good alternative for that (you know, slightly below average)?

The roll, in case somebody's not familiar, is 4d6, reroll 1s, keep the highest three. Pretty high roll for abilities but I ain't complaining.

Just use the 25 Point Buy then. No fuss. That's 16, 16, 14, 10, 10, 10 before racial modifiers for two prime scores and 14 Constitution perhaps. Racial modifier makes a 16 an 18 or the 14 a 16. A 10 is prime for a dump stat if the player wants, 8 for 2 points, 7 for 4 points. Get some 12s in there.

30 points gets you 16, 16, 14, 14, 10, 10 or 16, 16, 16, 10, 10, 10. Check up on how the dice rolling compares.