Bitchy PC

[Sivar]

I'm DM and one of my PC's doesn't understand that he's not in control. I need help to tell him that even if it's in the book it doesn't make it so... I MAKE IT SO!!! Every time I tell him this it just goes right over his head help!

[Doctor Awkward]

Step #0: Before you run the game, you need to familiarize yourself with the rules. If there is anything you are going to be changing for your game, you need to tell the players about the change and why you are changing it before anyone even rolls up characters. Anyone who does not like it is free to not play.

During actual play:

Step #1: Very calmly, clearly, and politely explain that you are running the game, and that you are aware of what the book says, and that for your game you are doing things differently.

Step #2: He gets two chances. If repeating step #1 does not yield the desired result, very calmly, clearly, and politely inform the player that he is no longer welcome in your session because he cannot adhere to the rules you have set forth.

Step #3: If there is still a problem at this point, smack dat fool upside his fool head.

[Tohsaka Rin]

On the other hand, if you've made a rules mistake (literally speaking here, if you've say, misread something) and the player is simply giving you the correct information, you really need to ease off the power trip.

DnD is a collaborative game. If you start brow-beating your players for little to no reason, you'll soon find you have no players.

[atemu1234]

I'm DM and one of my PC's doesn't understand that he's not in control. I need help to tell him that even if it's in the book it doesn't make it so... I MAKE IT SO!!! Every time I tell him this it just goes right over his head help!

Ok, please elaborate, or else we WILL assume you have a god complex.

[Sivar]

My PC insists that the book has power over me not the other way around. Ps in DND I do have a god complex since My original PC ascended to god hood after getting the last hit on orcus and haveing over 100,000 worshipers. and now I'm DM soo... yeah.

[Kid Jake]

The book it doesn't make it so... I MAKE IT SO!!!

All I can think of (http://youtu.be/miVoe7U6Lx4?t=28s).




My PC insists that the book has power over me not the other way around. Ps in DND I do have a god complex since My original PC ascended to god hood after getting the last hit on orcus and haveing over 100,000 worshipers. and now I'm DM soo... yeah.


Neither of those things mean that you've got carte blanche to go mad with power though...

[Sivar]

Becoming a god doesn't allow you to go mad with power?

[Sivar]

Ok off topic I need a way to get through to my PC without threatening to make him leave the group, because like I would expect most people Dnd players are limited in the area

[Marlowe]

OP. When you get people agreeing to play a game with you, there is a a certain unspoken compact that the rules of the game will be followed. Otherwise it's not That Game. The Game that everyone agreed to play. It's an unknown something else that the players never signed up for.

DM Fiat is a narrative device, not an excuse to indulge in a powertrip. If you don't understand that then you shouldn't be DMing.

Could you please explain how your player is "bitchy?". Are we even allowed to say "bitchy?" All you've got so far is that the player wants you to follow the rules.

[oxybe]

Give us examples. What rule did you change that caused the player to reference the book and try say otherwise? Did you warn the player of this rule change beforehand and made sure they understood it. How exactly did they react other then going "but the rulebook says otherwise?".

Also: D&D is a social activity. You wouldn't invite people to go bowling or watch game of thrones and then start drastically changing the rules on them/put on coronation street mid evening without any warning then kicking up a fuss when they ignore you. D&D is the same way: You're inviting friends or sometimes strangers to partake in an activity for fun. If you start powertripping, you have zero right to complain if they leave because you turned a night of fun into a night of not-fun.

Finally, remember that no gaming is better then bad gaming, which goes for any activity really. If you're trying to run a session and not having any fun, don't be afraid of going "This isn't working out" and doing something else. If the problem is that everyone doesn't agree with your way of doing things, well you'll likely have to change your methods or choose not to run for these players. You can try to browbeat them, but I can assure you it won't end well.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Step #0: Before you run the game, you need to familiarize yourself with the rules. If there is anything you are going to be changing for your game, you need to tell the players about the change and why you are changing it before anyone even rolls up characters. Anyone who does not like it is free to not play.

During actual play:

Step #1: Very calmly, clearly, and politely explain that you are running the game, and that you are aware of what the book says, and that for your game you are doing things differently


This. I hate when the DM changes rules without disclosing it pre-game. I'm a by the book player. I plan my characters out based on how the book says the game goes. If a DM wants to play by different rules, I'm OK with that. Just need to know first. And I would hope they would be cool with me making a new character if they didn't disclose a rule change that could affect me.

[Sivar]

For an example my PC is a rouge who wants to be an assassin and according to the book he has to kill someone for the purpose of becoming an assassin. At the time we were traveling with an evil cleric that we all knew was going to turn on us at one point or another, he wonted to kill him to kill a upcoming enemy and to fill all prerequisites for the prestige class. I told him he had to kill someone "innocent" and then we started arguing right in the middle of the session! I don't think this is a big enough change to get under anyone's skin so please no accusations on my DMing

[Sivar]

Note that by killing him he would get death attack which would make everyone's day a lot easier dealing with the new found mini boss

[Marlowe]

Also;

The person asking you to follow the rules is a PLAYER. Not a PC. The PC is that person's character. The PC doesn't know he's in a game with rules. He doesn't exist.

That guy that punched out Orcus and became a god with 100,000 worshippers? That person wasn't you. That was your PC. He doesn't actually exist. You didn't punch out Orcus. Orcus doesn't exist. You aren't a god. You don't have 100,000 worshippers; you don't even have one. The exploits of your PC in a different game have nothing to do with your performance as a DM in this one.

Telling this is hopefully not required. It should never be required. I'm starting to think better safe than sorry.

EDIT: OK. So you changed PrC requirements without explanation because, rightly or wrongly, you thought a class ability would make short work of your miniboss.

You know what you should have done?

Made a better miniboss.

[Flickerdart]

For an example my PC is a rouge who wants to be an assassin and according to the book he has to kill someone for the purpose of becoming an assassin. At the time we were traveling with an evil cleric that we all knew was going to turn on us at one point or another, he wonted to kill him to kill a upcoming enemy and to fill all prerequisites for the prestige class. I told him he had to kill someone "innocent" and then we started arguing right in the middle of the session! I don't think this is a big enough change to get under anyone's skin so please no accusations on my DMing
Just because you expect someone to turn on you does not mean that they are not innocent before the attempt.

[TheCrowing1432]

For an example my PC is a rouge who wants to be an assassin and according to the book he has to kill someone for the purpose of becoming an assassin. At the time we were traveling with an evil cleric that we all knew was going to turn on us at one point or another, he wonted to kill him to kill a upcoming enemy and to fill all prerequisites for the prestige class. I told him he had to kill someone "innocent" and then we started arguing right in the middle of the session! I don't think this is a big enough change to get under anyone's skin so please no accusations on my DMing

It was still an ad hoc change out of nowhere.

By the players hand book, Assassins are made by killing ANYONE innocent or not, simply for the reason of becoming one.

Telling your player in the middle of the session that that wouldnt work with no warning is bad DMing.

I assume you wanted him to stab a peasant somewhere or something?

[oxybe]

I guess the thing is, you agreed to let the player go into the assassin PRC as long as he fulfilled the requirements, but you changed them on the spot because it suddenly became a hassle.

Noting well that very often the difference between an adventurer, a murderer and an assassin is one of PR: all three go out and kill people, often very deliberately. the first does it for "justice", the second does it for whatever reason they feel spurred on by and the third historically (as in real life historical) does it for political reasons.

If you intended the target to be an innocent you should have told the player this beforehand and made sure he understood this, as he now may not want to become an assassin but has put resources towards that end. If this is his decision, you should at least allow him the courtesy of reallocating those resources or re-rolling a new PC.

[Sivar]

Background Knowledge: We have had this conversation before hand but he wonted to bring it back up to see if I'd reconsider due to the circumstances

[Marlowe]

How on earth do you decide someone is "Innocent?". "Innocent" of what?

"Innocent" in the context of not having done anything specific to have provoked the murder? Then the evil Cleric qualifies.

"Innocent" in a more sublime sense? Then you'll have to look really hard to find someone worthy.

[Sidmen]

For an example my PC is a rouge who wants to be an assassin and according to the book he has to kill someone for the purpose of becoming an assassin. At the time we were traveling with an evil cleric that we all knew was going to turn on us at one point or another, he wonted to kill him to kill a upcoming enemy and to fill all prerequisites for the prestige class. I told him he had to kill someone "innocent" and then we started arguing right in the middle of the session! I don't think this is a big enough change to get under anyone's skin so please no accusations on my DMing
It would certainly irritate me. Since if I'm going to play an Assassin, I'll be wanting to kill important people, and important people are very unlikely to be "innocent", whatever that means. Heck, killing an important priest who was very likely to cause the party trouble in the future sounds EXACTLY like what an Assassin should be doing.

Protip: stop changing stuff if you don't want people to get angry at you for changing stuff on them.

[Troacctid]

The prerequisite to be an assassin is "The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins." It definitely sounds like your player had some other reason to kill this Cleric. So I think you are actually on the right side of this dispute, from a rules perspective. In fact, I believe the usual way it's done is for the assassins to assign a target to a potential recruit, as sort of an initiation test. You couldn't just kill some random dude and tell them, "Hey, look, I killed this dude! Can I join your club now?"

I personally dislike that requirement, and I prefer to just ignore it and let players take assassin levels without having to join a special organization to do so. But I acknowledge that that is a deviation from the book.

[Sivar]

Innocent as in the character becoming an assassin has no knowledge that the NPC has done anything wrong or has no need or intent to kill them besides for becoming an assassin

[jjcrpntr]

This is why more often than not when something comes up in my games I generally give my players the benefit of the doubt. What we do is if something comes up we'll discuss it for a bit then I'll make a ruling, generally in my players favor, but I'll tell them I'm taking it for the week. After the game I dig in to the book, check the net and occasionally have asked here for help, then I make a decision and email my players about it.

For example, last game we had a players climb into a handy haversack and cast silent image to make the ranger look like a ghost they had met earlier. This just seemed cheesy as hell to me and I explained to them that I didn't think this stuff actually worked that way but I wanted to reward creativity.

After the game I looked at the rules and yep I was right they couldn't have done any of the stuff they had tries. But it was funny as hell and I think, I hope, that my players respect that I may not know all the rules but I try to be fair with them about it if they approach it right. If they come at my with a dickish attitude they would probably get one back.

[TheCrowing1432]

Background Knowledge: We have had this conversation before hand but he wonted to bring it back up to see if I'd reconsider due to the circumstances

This seems like something you should have mentioned in the op.

If this is actually true (which i doubt).

The player should have been made aware of the changes to the requirements of becoming an assassin, and he should have I dunno, asked you if the cleric qualifies.

Though what the hell "Innocent" means in this context, I have no idea.

To me it seems you're honestly trying to screw this guy for no reason, especially since you told us that the assassins death attack will ruin your mini boss.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Probably better justification: "You're killing him because you think he'll turn on you, not just because you want to join the assassins."

In any case, it's honestly a slightly silly thing for the player to argue about, but your inherent reasoning (I don't want him using it on my boss!) is also silly, so it was a mistake on everybody's part.

[Marlowe]

Innocent as in the character becoming an assassin has no knowledge that the NPC has done anything wrong or has no need or intent to kill them besides for becoming an assassin

That is a very specific use of "Innocent."

Troacctid is correct: You could have said. "Sorry. You've been wanting to kill this guy anyway. Because you know he's bad news. This is meant to be a dark rite of passage and you can't use it as an excuse get your dirty work done." That would have left you completely in the right by the book.

But instead, you changed the rules in a nonsensical fashion. Because you think a Rogue with Assassin levels is going to be too dangerous against your miniboss.

Exactly when are they going to meet this miniboss? because if he's not actually waiting right in the next room then you should have plenty of time to come up with something that doesn't involve this thread.

[Sivar]

I'm going to stop commenting/looking at this thread because people are starting to only comment to argue and not offer solutions :/

[JNAProductions]

Solution 1: Be a more accomodating DM. Understand that players are there to have fun and that while you might be god of the PC universe, you're just another person to the players.

Solution 2: Find players that are okay with having such a god-complex DM.

Solution 3: Take up shuffleboard.

[torrasque666]

{scrubbed}

[kellbyb]

I'm going to stop commenting/looking at this thread because people are starting to only comment to argue and not offer solutions :/

Instead of trying to block access to death attack, just work around it. While death attack is rather scary, it can be counteracted with relative ease.

1. Protection from sneak attacks - armor fortification enhancements block sneak attacks and therefor prevent death attack from being used. Being undead or a construct would also work just fine, and the simplest method is to just slap on necropolitan.

2. Don't get caught flat-footed - death attack requires 3 full rounds of undetected observation. Pump up listen and spot, or invest in special vision such as blindsense, blindsight, or tremorsense.

3. Just deal with it - the guy's only going to get 1 death attack per fight, and the DC's not very high, so just pump up the fortitude save.

[TheEmperor]

{scrubbed}

[torrasque666]

{scrubbed}

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm not gonna lie, this thread is extremely entertaining to read.

[Karl Aegis]

I would also be mad if I had to jump through hoops just to get a piddly 1st level spell and an unreliable attack mode. Slaying Godzilla should be enough, but for some reason I'm required to go do something that is almost guaranteed to derail the campaign and get me killed.

[Marlowe]

So. Anyone got an ACTUAL bitchy PC story? And again; are we actually allowed to say "bitchy?"

[(Un)Inspired]

So. Anyone got an ACTUAL bitchy PC story? And again; are we actually allowed to say "bitchy?"

What about like, a Vichy PC? Like a PC that is part of a puppet government that supports an invading fascist force?

[Marlowe]

And uses foreign bayonets to force his downtrodden countrymen to drink his hometown's tonic water? I could go for a story like that. Anyone got one?

[Crake]

2. Don't get caught flat-footed - death attack requires 3 full rounds of undetected observation. Pump up listen and spot, or invest in special vision such as blindsense, blindsight, or tremorsense.

Not only that, uncanny dodge negates all sneak attacks except ones that are achieved via flanking, or feinting. And it can be taken with a single feat, shape soulmeld (impulse boots). Get improved uncanny dodge and you're pretty much immune to death attack from anyone, because only pure rogues of 4 levels higher than your combined uncanny dodge classes can overcome it, meaning if it's an assassin, that doesn't add to their rogue levels for that purpose.

[oxybe]

So. Anyone got an ACTUAL bitchy PC story? And again; are we actually allowed to say "bitchy?"

what about computers that are acting up on you? mine seemingly has a problem with my favourite Lets Players' website and refuses to play any video resized until I tinker with the video's resolution.

And it only happens on their site. Not youtube, not vimeo, not my anime site. Just theirs.

[The Insanity]

What you did wrong was to require stupid **** to become an Assassin in the first place. "Fluff requirements" are unnecessary and should be removed from prcs.

[Aegis013]

I'm not gonna lie, this thread is extremely entertaining to read.

Agreed.


So. Anyone got an ACTUAL ... PC story?

Yes, I had a friend attempt to DM at one point and since he was concerned I would be too powerful if I made my own character, he made a character for me, and only me. It was a Swashbuckler, who was nowhere close to WBL, with poor stat allocation and the backstory was handed to me by the DM.

He was once a pirate-king, terrifying ruler of the seas with his band of merciless cutthroats until some powerful magic-users locked away all his power with an arcane ritual or something. So he was generally pissed at the world, and ineffective at most things. So, I decided to play him as just such a PC.

Every town we'd come to would be described as impressive buildings, perfectly cut from marble or whatnot and my PC would say things like "In all my travels across the seven seas and six continents, never have I seen such a barbaric place! Devoid of the principles of civilization!" and things along those lines. Which, ticked off the residents. I also made it into a running gag that the numbers of seas and continents were never consistent.

So at some point, my PC accused an important NPC of being uncivilized and rude and started just going on and on, ranting. So the the NPC basically used Modify Memory (but as a DM fiat spell, because we didn't know it existed at the time). This kind of thing started to happen kind of frequently.

Standing before the king I started to do the same kind of thing because my PC took imagined offense at something that was said. I shifted to conceal what I was doing, grabbed my rapier and locked my locked gauntlet on it and drew it to call the king out to a duel to let me defend my honor or something. He disarmed me with some magic wind or something, which got my PC complaining loudly at how his locked gauntlet was defective. So our party warlock asked if he could Shatter them for fun, and my PC let him, since he was ticked they didn't serve their intended function. So the king got tired of these antics and decided to start over, using modify memory to wipe my mind of the last few minutes. So my character immediately realizes his locked gauntlet is destroyed and starts complaining loudly and blaming the king, because his companions wouldn't have done that to him. "I've traveled the four seas and all thirty-seven continents and never have I come across such an uncivilized king who would break the possessions of his guests!" and on and on it went.

Eventually, we got in a pretty tough fight and my character got really hurt and our Evil Cleric decided to mercy kill me instead of healing me, and nobody seemed to mind, (though my antics usually got laughs from the other players) but the game ended and I didn't get to bring in another character.

[Thatwarforged]

Agreed.



Yes, I had a friend attempt to DM at one point and since he was concerned I would be too powerful if I made my own character, he made a character for me, and only me. It was a Swashbuckler, who was nowhere close to WBL, with poor stat allocation and the backstory was handed to me by the DM.

-Snip-.

This story made me start laughing so hard then I just broke into a giggle fit. You sir are a True Pirate Lord.

[Arbane]

It doesn't seem like such a difficult requirement for your average evil PC - the day you leave town, shank a random peasant in an alley.

As for bitchy players, I'm sorry to say I might qualify. I do not react well when the GM throws what looks like an impending TPK at us. (Which he's done twice so far. Once we ran, once we legitimately won, to my immense surprise. It helped that Cloakers can't moan with their mouths full.)

[CGNefarious]

Agreed.



Yes, I had a friend attempt to DM at one point and since he was concerned I would be too powerful if I made my own character, he made a character for me, and only me. It was a Swashbuckler, who was nowhere close to WBL, with poor stat allocation and the backstory was handed to me by the DM.

He was once a pirate-king, terrifying ruler of the seas with his band of merciless cutthroats until some powerful magic-users locked away all his power with an arcane ritual or something. So he was generally pissed at the world, and ineffective at most things. So, I decided to play him as just such a PC.

Every town we'd come to would be described as impressive buildings, perfectly cut from marble or whatnot and my PC would say things like "In all my travels across the seven seas and six continents, never have I seen such a barbaric place! Devoid of the principles of civilization!" and things along those lines. Which, ticked off the residents. I also made it into a running gag that the numbers of seas and continents were never consistent.

So at some point, my PC accused an important NPC of being uncivilized and rude and started just going on and on, ranting. So the the NPC basically used Modify Memory (but as a DM fiat spell, because we didn't know it existed at the time). This kind of thing started to happen kind of frequently.

Standing before the king I started to do the same kind of thing because my PC took imagined offense at something that was said. I shifted to conceal what I was doing, grabbed my rapier and locked my locked gauntlet on it and drew it to call the king out to a duel to let me defend my honor or something. He disarmed me with some magic wind or something, which got my PC complaining loudly at how his locked gauntlet was defective. So our party warlock asked if he could Shatter them for fun, and my PC let him, since he was ticked they didn't serve their intended function. So the king got tired of these antics and decided to start over, using modify memory to wipe my mind of the last few minutes. So my character immediately realizes his locked gauntlet is destroyed and starts complaining loudly and blaming the king, because his companions wouldn't have done that to him. "I've traveled the four seas and all thirty-seven continents and never have I come across such an uncivilized king who would break the possessions of his guests!" and on and on it went.

Eventually, we got in a pretty tough fight and my character got really hurt and our Evil Cleric decided to mercy kill me instead of healing me, and nobody seemed to mind, (though my antics usually got laughs from the other players) but the game ended and I didn't get to bring in another character.

That's a pretty awesome story. As much as I despise a DM telling someone what kind of character they are going to play, let alone actually handing them a prebuilt character with no say in anything, at least you got an interesting backstory. I would have walked immediately, but I am glad you didn't. Someday I'm going to steal this backstory and character concept.

[Aegis013]

That's a pretty awesome story. As much as I despise a DM telling someone what kind of character they are going to play, let alone actually handing them a prebuilt character with no say in anything, at least you got an interesting backstory. I would have walked immediately, but I am glad you didn't. Someday I'm going to steal this backstory and character concept.

It wasn't as bad as that. He told me straightforwardly that he was concerned that I'd be too powerful if I was left to build a character on my own, so he was going to build a character for me instead, and quite frankly, I appreciated his honesty in the matter so much that I was happy to oblige. I didn't complain when the character was pretty janky either, I just ran with it and tried to make it fun. It worked for me, though I think he wasn't prepared for me to be quite so disruptive in-character.


This story made me start laughing so hard then I just broke into a giggle fit. You sir are a True Pirate Lord.

May I sig this?

[Thatwarforged]

Yeah go ahead. You have my full blessing.

The only thing I can contribute to this is not really a story about a bad character but a bad player playing the game like a video game.
He always played a wizard, always (He is the reason why my death rule is that when you die and roll a new character it cannot be of the same class or race (Except human) as your previous character.). So when someone in the group did anything he did not like even if it was making fun of how he played a drunken elf wizard, he would stab their character and forcing a actual battle. Of the 7 or 8 times his characters died I only killed him once the rest of the time he forced the party to kill him when he just sat their stabbing them. If he wasn't first to the loot he would through down some kind of area/terrain effect (It was 4e so he only wasted some of his resource in his eyes) when I was absent another player decided to pick up the game from were it was left off and gave a party of 3rd level characters 10th level items. When I toke the goodies away the Wizard threw a fit and then tried to kill the subs DM character.
After a failed attempt at a mini boss were I fiat and fudged rolls to allow the tank and healer to escape, they rested and went to fight the mini boss again in which the party spent 30 minutes or so coming up with a strategy the wizard was playing on his phone after I told him to stop and listen. Then when I asked if everyone was ready and in the positions they wanted to be in, the player did not want to be in the spot they had set him, and if he moved the party would be swarmed by enemies instead of fightning two at a time. He got peaved that I told him not to move his character and he started repeating this is D&D I can do whatever I want. That's when I let him have it. One of the few times I've raised my voice in the party, I pretty much told him that D&D is about Teamwork and is a social game and if you wanted to play like a arse monkey that he should just go home and play halo reach and grand theft auto. He picked up and left the table and he was never invited again.

[Talakeal]

Agreed.



Yes, I had a friend attempt to DM at one point and since he was concerned I would be too powerful if I made my own character, he made a character for me, and only me. It was a Swashbuckler, who was nowhere close to WBL, with poor stat allocation and the backstory was handed to me by the DM.

He was once a pirate-king, terrifying ruler of the seas with his band of merciless cutthroats until some powerful magic-users locked away all his power with an arcane ritual or something. So he was generally pissed at the world, and ineffective at most things. So, I decided to play him as just such a PC.

Every town we'd come to would be described as impressive buildings, perfectly cut from marble or whatnot and my PC would say things like "In all my travels across the seven seas and six continents, never have I seen such a barbaric place! Devoid of the principles of civilization!" and things along those lines. Which, ticked off the residents. I also made it into a running gag that the numbers of seas and continents were never consistent.

So at some point, my PC accused an important NPC of being uncivilized and rude and started just going on and on, ranting. So the the NPC basically used Modify Memory (but as a DM fiat spell, because we didn't know it existed at the time). This kind of thing started to happen kind of frequently.

Standing before the king I started to do the same kind of thing because my PC took imagined offense at something that was said. I shifted to conceal what I was doing, grabbed my rapier and locked my locked gauntlet on it and drew it to call the king out to a duel to let me defend my honor or something. He disarmed me with some magic wind or something, which got my PC complaining loudly at how his locked gauntlet was defective. So our party warlock asked if he could Shatter them for fun, and my PC let him, since he was ticked they didn't serve their intended function. So the king got tired of these antics and decided to start over, using modify memory to wipe my mind of the last few minutes. So my character immediately realizes his locked gauntlet is destroyed and starts complaining loudly and blaming the king, because his companions wouldn't have done that to him. "I've traveled the four seas and all thirty-seven continents and never have I come across such an uncivilized king who would break the possessions of his guests!" and on and on it went.

Eventually, we got in a pretty tough fight and my character got really hurt and our Evil Cleric decided to mercy kill me instead of healing me, and nobody seemed to mind, (though my antics usually got laughs from the other players) but the game ended and I didn't get to bring in another character.

LOL!

I think this is the best reaction to an incompetent DM I have ever seen. I truly wish I had your wits or your patience good sir!

[Rowan Wolf]

My PC insists that the book has power over me not the other way around. Ps in DND I do have a god complex since My original PC ascended to god hood after getting the last hit on orcus and haveing over 100,000 worshipers. and now I'm DM soo... yeah.

Like it's been said if, it is kind of assume you are going to use the rule and good form to set out house rule where players can see/know about. But then again you can keep your god complex and I wouldn't blame your players for voting with their feet.

[Mystral]

I'm DM and one of my PC's doesn't understand that he's not in control. I need help to tell him that even if it's in the book it doesn't make it so... I MAKE IT SO!!! Every time I tell him this it just goes right over his head help!

I think that the problem might lie in your attitude.

[Mystral]

So. Anyone got an ACTUAL bitchy PC story? And again; are we actually allowed to say "bitchy?"

I have a story about a bitchy player I could share.

As for bitchy pcs, I've played a few.

FWI, I agree with the assassin requirement ruling. Killing someone you were going to kill anyway doesn't cut it.

[aspekt]

{scrubbed}

[Mystral]

{scrubbed}

[Psyren]

It wasn't as bad as that. He told me straightforwardly that he was concerned that I'd be too powerful if I was left to build a character on my own, so he was going to build a character for me instead, and quite frankly, I appreciated his honesty in the matter so much that I was happy to oblige. I didn't complain when the character was pretty janky either, I just ran with it and tried to make it fun. It worked for me, though I think he wasn't prepared for me to be quite so disruptive in-character.

I'm glad you got a good story out of it but to me this was just cowardly of your DM. If I were truly concerned that you would go gonzo with a more powerful class, and for some brain-addled reason I didn't know/trust you well enough to not do that, I would have picked a sublist of classes for you to choose from, and then come up with a backstory based on what you felt like playing. And if there were another (first-party) class outside of that list that was similar in power to the ones I'd selected, I would evaluate it fairly even though it wasn't in the initial grouping.

[Studoku]

{scrubbed}

[Flickerdart]

{scrubbed}
Malodorous Funk would be an excellent troglodyte band name.

[(Un)Inspired]

Malodorous Funk would be an excellent troglodyte band name.

I don't know. You might say, it's a bit too on the nose.

[Flickerdart]

I don't know. You might say, it's a bit too on the nose.
One thing's for sure - their beats aren't exactly fresh.

[Segev]

Okay, guys? Personal insults are not cool.

To the OP, I would try to be a little more cooperative in your attitude. Not, "Okay, whatever you want," but try to hear out his reasoning, and make sure your reasoning goes further than, "But that would make the next encounter too easy."

Because if that last is your reason, what you should do is honestly say, "I'm sorry, but I have realized that the Assassin PrC has a power that makes it hard for me to write reasonable challenges for the game without no-selling your class. If you would like to rebuild or make a new character, you may, but I am not going to allow Assassin after all."

Never use the rules to justify disallowing something when they are not your reason for disallowing it.

If "you must kill an innocent" is reflective of the assassin's guild assigning him a person to kill as an initiation ritual, that's one thing. But your stated reason tells me that you really just shouldn't be allowing the PrC. And in that case, you should be honest to yourself and your player about it.

I am not saying you're being deliberately deceptive; this is a trap many DMs fall into. I'm saying that this is a trap, and that you need to become aware of it; climb out of it now, and avoid it in the future. You're learning; everybody always is.

[Sliver]

{scrubbed}

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Closed for review.

EDIT: Thread has now devolved into accusations and derailment into unrelated topics. Closed permanently.