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ken-do-nim
2007-04-06, 08:07 PM
Alright, as promised, here is my accumulated spells errata, based both on play experience & on the principles we've been outlining in the "top-down approach" thread. I don't pretend in any way that it is complete. It will always remain a living, breathing document. I know that a lot of people have had issues with gate, celerity, and anti-magic field for instance; I just haven't gotten around to dealing with those spells.

Enjoy, and may it help your games.

ALL
1. Summoning uses the individualized variant rule. When creating the statistics for a summoned monster, the caster can change one feat the monster has, provided the feat swapped out was not a prerequisite for another one the monster has and with the new feat a feat progression can be made in which all the prerequisites fit (a feat progression is "it took xyz at 1HD, abc at 3HD..." etc. Any skill choices left vague should also be chosen ahead of time (such as with the avoral's knowledge or lillend perform).

2. All force effects allow spell resistance and can be dispelled by the touch of a rod of cancellation.

3. All spells which create energy are evocation spells and allow spell resistance.

BARD

Level 3

1. Ray of Dizziness - see Sor/Wiz

Level 6

1. Ray of Light - see Sor/Wiz

CLERIC

Level 3

1. Mass Resist Energy - see Sor/Wiz

Level 4

1. Assay Spell Resistance - see Sor/Wiz

2. Delay Death - banned

3. Divine Power - spellcasting while this spell is active is prohibited (just like Tenser's Transformation)

Level 6

1. Blade Barrier
1a. A rod of cancellation can take it down.
1b. An opponent who makes a successful reflex save moves one square away of their choice. An opponent who cannot move, or has no open square to move to, cannot make a save vs. this spell. This goes for other similar spells.

2. Heal - also removes all ability penalties

Level 9

1. Miracle - this spell can be used to duplicate spells needed for item creation and permanency (including permanency itself)

DRUID

Level 3

1. Mass Resist Energy - see Sor/Wiz

Level 9

1. Shapechange - see Sor/Wiz

SORCERER/WIZARD

Level 1

1. Lesser Orb spells - all evocation and allow spell resistance.

2. Nerveskitter - banned (you can't use an immediate action while flat-footed anyway)

3. Ray of Clumsiness - fort save for 1/2 dex penalty, round down

4. Ray of Enfeeblement - fort save for 1/2 str penalty, round down

Level 2

1. Alter Self
1a. Uses Alter spell from GITP: http://www.giantitp.com/Func0021.html
1b. Revised stat blocks must be done ahead of time or spell fails.

2. Flaming Sphere - an opponent who makes a successful reflex save against a flaming sphere (or similar spell) moves one square away. This still stops the sphere's movement. An opponent who cannot move, or has no open square to move to, cannot make a save vs. this spell. This goes for other similar spells.

3. Ray of Stupidity - banned

4. Touch of Idiocy - will save for 1/2 to all penalties, round down

5. Wraithstrike - banned

Level 3

1. Stinking Cloud - poison immunity negates the effects of this spell.

2. Ray of Dizziness - will save at -4 negates

3. Shivering Touch - banned

Level 4

1. Assay Spell Resistance - banned

2. Blast of Flame - evocation and allows spell resistance.

3. Dimension Door - willing allies who ready an action to attack just after the teleport attack as if coming out of invisibility.

4. Enervate - fort save for 1/2 round down

5. Fire Shield - creatures with natural attacks and reach are still affected.

6. Mass Resist Energy - revise the spell level to 6 (even for cleric/druid)

7. Orb spells - all evocation and allow spell resistance.

8. Polymorph
8a. Uses animorph spell from GITP: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/dC21fDHZ4tK8n5OjUm9.html
8b. Revised stat blocks must be prepared ahead of time

Level 5

1. Mass Fire Shield - revise the spell level to 8 instead of 5.

2. Wall of Stone - when an opponent saves successfully to avoid entrapment, move him or her to the square of their choice just outside the wall.

Level 6

1. Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability
1a. The familiar can share spells with the master just as the master shares spells with it.
1b. A sorcerer archmage casting it can make all the decisions ordinarily made at casting time at the time the spell is given to the familiar. For instance, an archmage with mastery of elements can give the familiar a lightning ray instead of the usual scorching ray. The sorcerer can also apply a metamagic feat to a spell, losing the appropriate spell slot. When a familiar casts a metamagic-enhanced spell, its casting time is increased just like when the sorcerer casts it himself. Another example is with mastery of shaping; the sorcerer can decide up front where the spaces are. A good usage of this is granting the familiar a fireball where the middle square is out of the spell's area of effect. Then when the familiar casts the spell, it can center the fireball on itself and not be injured. On the other hand, the archmage's reach ability can't be transferred to the familiar, nor can the mastery of counterspelling.

2. Ray of Entropy - fort save for 1/2 penalties

3. Ray of Light - will save for 1/2 duration rounded down

Level 7

1. Forcecage - allows spell resistance and a reflex save to negate (move the target to the square of their choice just outside the cage). Change the material component to a focus.

2. Greater Arcane Sight - it shows every detail of every active spell. For example, it would reveal not only a resist energy spell but a resist cold 20 energy spell.

3. Limited Wish - this spell can be used to duplicate spells needed for item creation and permanency (including permanency itself)

4. Mordenkainen's Sword - switching it to a different opponent is a move action.

5. Project Image - touch attacks delivered by this spell are rolled as ranged touch attacks, so dex is used.

Level 8

1. Polymorph Any Object
1a. Uses Transmogrification spell from GITP: http://www.giantitp.com/Func0021.html
1b. Revised stat blocks must be done ahead of time or spell fails

Level 9

1. Shapechange
1a. Uses infinimorph spell from GITP: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/dC21fDHZ4tK8n5OjUm9.html
1b. Revised stat blocks must be done ahead of time or spell fails

2. Time Stop
2a. Spells with 1 round casting time cast in the last round of a time stop go off just after the time stop expires (so you can cast delayed blast fireball in the last round of the time stop with a delay of 1 round and it will explode and affect opponents)
2b. Time stop cannot be cast during a time stop.

3. Wish - this spell can be used to duplicate spells needed for item creation and permanency (including permanency itself)

Cybren
2007-04-06, 08:10 PM
I can't read it. I need my lawyer.

Arbitrarity
2007-04-06, 08:23 PM
Time stop is still slightly borked, orbs have NO USE, wizards no give damn about wraithstrike, and a really arbitrary change about the revised stat blocks being done ahead of time.

Good job removing shivering touch.

On the other hand, removing the orb spells means the wizard is just going to have to pull **** like changing the battlefield. See: reverse gravity.


EDIT: Yeah, I know about the time saver :D. Just seems like having the spell auto fail is a bit harsh, particularly when you don't have to plan what you want to turn into. True though... makes it a bit hard to use.

ken-do-nim
2007-04-06, 08:26 PM
Time stop is still slightly borked, orbs have NO USE, wizards no give damn about wraithstrike, and a really arbitrary change about the revised stat blocks being done ahead of time.

Good job removing shivering touch.

On the other hand, removing the orb spells means the wizard is just going to have to pull **** like changing the battlefield. See: reverse gravity.

Were the 3.0 orb spells still 4th level? If they were 3rd, I'll revise them down to that. I don't own a copy of tome & blood.

Arbitrary change about stat blocks? No, it's a timekiller at the gaming table. This one's not about game balance, it's about putting the DM to sleep waiting.

I like the reverse gravity spell. It's got that nice colorful flair I think magic should have. I miss duo-dimension from 1st edition.

Matthew
2007-04-08, 10:06 PM
Interesting changes. I would have thought there would be a few more for the Clerics, though.

ken-do-nim
2007-04-09, 09:20 AM
Interesting changes. I would have thought there would be a few more for the Clerics, though.

I'm debating making freedom of movement simply add +20 to escape artist checks just like salve of slipperiness instead of being automatic. What do you think?

I still haven't figured out a good way to nerf find the path. But it's that spell that once the cleric gets it, all sorts of dungeons are no longer viable.

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-09, 11:53 AM
Escape Artist is really weak in a grapple. If you're pinned, you need two standard actions to fully escape, and if you got grappled in the first place, they should have no problem re-establishing the pin after you spend a turn "escaping" into a standard grapple, and thus keeping you permanently grappled.

If you made Escape Artist a single check to escape a grapple even when pinned, then yes, changing Freedom of Movement to a +20 would be fine. Otherwise, I would try to find a different solution.

ken-do-nim
2007-04-09, 03:15 PM
Escape Artist is really weak in a grapple. If you're pinned, you need two standard actions to fully escape, and if you got grappled in the first place, they should have no problem re-establishing the pin after you spend a turn "escaping" into a standard grapple, and thus keeping you permanently grappled.

If you made Escape Artist a single check to escape a grapple even when pinned, then yes, changing Freedom of Movement to a +20 would be fine. Otherwise, I would try to find a different solution.

Excellent observation, and something that has been bothering me anyway about the system. How about we say that an escape artist check can be made to resist a grapple?

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-09, 05:29 PM
That would be even better, and it would let the flavor text on salve of slipperiness actually make sense.