Project EMPIRE! CWBG XIII: F5: Document Spirits F10: Summon Balepig, Keeper of Oaths [Archive]

QuintonBeck

2015-02-18, 12:02 PM

EMPIRE!
Gods, Kings & Adventurers
A Community World=Building Game by Morph Bark

Now officially celebrating its one-year anniversary!

Current Year: 501-505
IC thread: click (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?326407-EMPIRE!-A-World-Building-Game-of-People-amp-Discovery)!
Dice-Rolling thread: click (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?388673-EMPIRE!-The-Community-Dice-Rolling-Thread-The-2nd)!

NOTE:
Every so often, the rules have small updates, marked in red. If you discover a hole in the rules, please report it so it can be looked into and taken care of. We try to make the rules as clear, solid and usable as they can be, so they don't need a GM to make rulings too often.

Welcome to EMPIRE! A game of gods, kings and adventurers. In this game, you will play a character, a ruler of a region. And once s/he dies, you will play their heir and so on, continuing on the family legacy. You scheme, discover and conquer your way towards becoming the most-remembered person in history. Respected, loved, feared.

This world will start as a simple one similar to the times of the Middle Ages, but through the actions of players and random events the scope of the world will expand, science marches on and magic may even be introduced. Magic is rare, though monsters may be abound in players’ regions, strange natural resources or the crafts of alchemy may be at their use and supernatural phenomena can take place.

Best beware if you want to ensure your legacy.

If you want to become a player and all regions are currently taken, don't worry. New regions can always be added in during play, and we can put you on the waiting list in the meantime if need be. If Empire interests you, but you don't want to play the game, you can always partake in the Freeform RP threads that are open to everyone, or even in its World-Building threads. See the list at the end of this post.

Be warned! This is primarily a game of world-building, but contains some strategic elements, secretive scheming, and both cooperation and vehement competition between players at times. It's all easy enough to understand once you've read through the rules, and GREAT fun to play in and talk with all your co-world-builders in this thread, but keep in mind that in the game itself, IC, it can be a very bumpy ride. Let us ask questions, help each other, communicate, cooperate, build and have fun OOC, even as we bash each other's brains in IC. :smallwink:

Also, if you have a question, and you can ask a player (about their region or people, for instance), ask them instead of the GM. If you can ask it in the thread, do that instead of via PM. The GM's PM inbox is regularly cleared and thus things can easily get lost, so try keep it to secret stuff and (IC) reactions to stuff you get in your own inbox.

Atlas
Below is the most current map of the known world. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?351078-Empire!-The-Lands-of-Telluris-(the-fluff-beyond-the-crunch)) is a list of regions that has been claimed and by whom. It is slightly outdated, so if you aim to take over a certain region, it is always good to double-check in the main thread (this one) whether it is taken or not. It might even currently be in the process of being taken over by someone else. This is especially good advice to new players, because then you're more aware of the general situation of the area you'll be dropping into.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww337/QuintonBeck/Empire%20Map%20Main%20Round%2039V2_zpsidewn6d2.jpg (http://s733.photobucket.com/user/QuintonBeck/media/Empire%20Map%20Main%20Round%2039_zpslbmiwljj.jpg.h tml)

http://i.imgur.com/PfGqERw.png

The Rules of the Game
See this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376064-EMPIRE!-Rules-and-Administration).

Game Masters
Rulecrafter: Morph Bark

Head GM: QuintonBeck

GM Team: Aedilred, TheWombatOfDoom, WaylanderX

~ ~ [u]GM Data Collection ~ ~
All the information on rulers & regions

See this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376064-EMPIRE!-Rules-and-Administration) for all records of rulers, population, military, agents, technologies, etc.

See this GoogleDoc (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TpA3qJEj9sli8KRuBgc8HTxaiKa5iv_gIsAcd0wJo1U/edit?usp=sharing) for all records on resources and trade.

New Player Tips and Advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338792-EMPIRE!-Community-W-B-Game-IV-****-Is-Getting-Real-It-s-Always-Getting-Real!&p=17246712&viewfull=1#post17246712) (Morph)

FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16948341&postcount=8) (Wombat)

Extra Player Resources (For the Players, By the Players)
Heraldry Generator (http://rpg.uplink.fi/heraldry/) (thanks, Logic!)
Family Banner Generator (http://www.jointherealm.com/)
Flag Generator (http://flag-designer.appspot.com/) (thanks, Logic!)
Family Tree Builder (http://www.familyecho.com/) (thanks, zabbarot!)

Should there be anything incorrect or not updated yet about any of the above tables it’s always possible that the GM or co-GM in charge of that has missed it. If so, please feel free to inform us with the proper, most updated information.

Fluff-Building Threads
The following threads are purely for expanding on existing fluff or theorizing about the history or make-up of the world. Some of them are in-character role-play bits, some are projects for creating maps, others are quotes or excerpts from books.

Pre-History (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?340307-EMPIRE!-Pre-history-Thread) (World-Building, pre-Year 1, pre-Year 330)
Rajurdic Codex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329784) (Year 338+)
Scrolls of Prowess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16955975) (Year 349+)
Bestiary of Telluris (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332266) (Year 354+)
Regional Maps (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344206-Empire!-Regional-Maps) (World-Building)
Northern Hemisphere Star Map (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344208-EMPIRE!-North-Hemisphere-Star-Map) (World-Building)
13 Swords of the True Jaaku Na (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?381209-Empire!-13-Swords-of-the-True-Jaaku-Na) (World-Building)

Previous Main Thread Incarnations

EMPIRE! A Community World-Building Tale of People & Discovery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325034)
EMPIRE! CWBG II: 2 Quest, 2 Curious (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329919)
EMPIRE! CWBG III: Prepare Your Inbox! (Messages Are Coming) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335042-EMPIRE!-Community-World-Building-Game-III-Prepare-Your-Inbox!-(Messages-Are-Coming))
EMPIRE! CWBG IV: **** Is Getting Real... It's Always Getting Real! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338792-EMPIRE!-Community-W-B-Game-IV-****-Is-Getting-Real-It-s-Always-Getting-Real!)
EMPIRE! CWBG V: Unless You Are The Mongols (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?344139-EMPIRE!-Community-W-B-Game-V-Unless-You-Are-The-Mongols)
EMPIRE! CWBG VI: Salt, Spies and Everything Dyes! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?346919-EMPIRE!-Community-W-B-Game-VI-Salt-Spies-and-Everything-Dyes!)
EMPIRE! CWBG VII: Dancing With Headless Princesses! (Fish, Saffron & Ginger Edition) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?358766-EMPIRE!-CWBG-VII-Dancing-With-Headless-Princesses!-(Fish-Saffron-amp-Ginger-Edition))
EMPIRE! CWBG VIII: It's Not An Event Without A Few Corpses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368017-EMPIRE!-CWBG-VIII-It-s-Not-An-Event-Without-A-Few-Corpses)
EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolution (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376153-EMPIRE!-CWBG-IX-We-Keep-Score-With-Bragging-Rights!-Many-Prowess-Such-Revolution)
EMPIRE! CWBG X: For Obscure Cultural Reasons, We Have Huuuuuuge Tracts Of Land (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?381314-EMPIRE!-CWBG-X-For-Obscure-Cultural-Reasons-We-Have-Huuuuuuge-Tracts-Of-Land)
EMPIRE! CWBG XI: We Finally Have Nomads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387025-EMPIRE!-CWBG-XI-We-Finally-Have-Nomads)
EMPIRE! CWBG XII GOTY: Now with optionally free Cthulhu and Pony DLC! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392752-EMPIRE!-CWBG-XII-GOTY-now-with-optionally-free-Cthulhu-and-Pony-DLC!)

SamBurke

2015-02-18, 12:06 PM

Well, he'll prolly end up 6 times longer. So...

With the square-cube law, what do we gotta do for it? The root of 6, and then the result to the power of 3? That would lead to a mass equivalent of 15 half-dragons at fully grown length.

If he were like a cube with one side six times as long, he'd be the equivalent in mass of 216 half-dragons.

Even 15 dragons is pretty massive... To be honest, I'm not certain how many buildings he could fit into when dragon'd out. :smalleek:

Also, new thread smell. I like it.

TheDarkDM

2015-02-18, 12:15 PM

Even 15 dragons is pretty massive... To be honest, I'm not certain how many buildings he could fit into when dragon'd out. :smalleek:

Also, new thread smell. I like it.

Hence my plans to Great Project a doom tower in the mountains for Nezetkhamun to chill out in when he's not attending to his globe-trotting Miracle Consultation business. :smalltongue:

moossabi

2015-02-18, 12:20 PM

I'm here third! Also, I'm trying to grow my domain via aggression? Oh no! How horrid! Whatever have I done! It's not like the denouncer works for the largest military and territory on the planet who waged a massive war for a tiny strip of holy land! Oh the humanity (or lack thereof, seeing as humans are a minority in this game)! :smalltongue:

Disclaimer: this is not a threat or hostile action. It is a joke.

Morph Bark

2015-02-18, 12:21 PM

Quinton:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140520103034/neo-bros/images/7/7d/Chuck_Norris_salute.gif

Correct. I'll add mine too - where do you want it?

Penoccident; that's where the goats are coming from.

Gengy

2015-02-18, 12:29 PM

As a request from someone who is diving deep into Trades soon, might I put out a heartfelt appeal that everyone check the Fluff Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?351078-Empire!-The-Lands-of-Telluris-(the-fluff-beyond-the-crunch)) and make sure your trades are up to date, please and thank you?

I ask, partly because Snow and I are crazy, and partly because next Sunday, I will have several new regions (probably). Which means that I'll have more things to trade!

Speaking of (potential) new regions, TechnO, if you want to help with writing up regions still, I have a couple things I'd like done once Sunday rolls around and I get a confirmation of region acquisition!

HalfTangible

2015-02-18, 12:35 PM

Morph Bark

2015-02-18, 12:47 PM

I put all my fixes to my trades in my action post under non-actions, so they should all be fixed next round.

lt_murgen

2015-02-18, 01:07 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TpA3qJEj9sli8KRuBgc8HTxaiKa5iv_gIsAcd0wJo1U/edit#gid=0

It's more up-to-date.

who is the keeper of that list? There are a couple of clean-up items I need done. I'll PM the keeper.

SamBurke

2015-02-18, 01:44 PM

Hence my plans to Great Project a doom tower in the mountains for Nezetkhamun to chill out in when he's not attending to his globe-trotting Miracle Consultation business. :smalltongue:
Gotta have somewhere to lay that gargantuan behind...

who is the keeper of that list? There are a couple of clean-up items I need done. I'll PM the keeper.

Aed, I believe.

Also, pro point to H-T for the fluff... I can't wait to see Marching Orders developed a tad more. :smallbiggrin:

Aedilred

2015-02-18, 01:56 PM

who is the keeper of that list? There are a couple of clean-up items I need done. I'll PM the keeper.

Aed, I believe. :

It is indeed me. If anyone has any corrections it would be great if you could link the appropriate actions where the trade/cancellation in question was done, since as I've discovered in the past people often think they've done things that they haven't with respect to trades.

I will also reiterate for the general audience that each round I publish the trade updates on this thread and that's what I use to action the changes to the table, so if you've done any trading in a given round it really is worthwhile having a look at that to make sure your trades are being centrally recorded and correctly, as it's the central records that get used to determine if resource requirements are being met, for both technologies and population. Making corrections on a round-by-round basis is a lot easier for everyone than having to hunt through subactions that are potentially several rounds old.

For Gengy/Snow, I should note that the trades in my region post are quite a way out of date - I probably stopped updating them around the time I took over doing all the trades, I think. I might update them, but don't hold your breath: my trades as I understand them are on the spreadsheet.

Snowfire

2015-02-18, 02:11 PM

For Gengy/Snow, I should note that the trades in my region post are quite a way out of date - I probably stopped updating them around the time I took over doing all the trades, I think. I might update them, but don't hold your breath: my trades as I understand them are on the spreadsheet.

We used the spreadsheet data, never fear.

moossabi

2015-02-18, 02:18 PM

Hey Moos, I just wanted to let you know that I didn't mean to hurt your plans. I chose a blank region to start in basically at random and with zero knowledge of nearly all the empires in the game. I understand that it was bad luck for you how both Randolf and I came in so suddenly at the same time and in the same tightly packed area around your land. I hope there isn't too many hard feelings between us as the rounds progress. I would very much like to be able to work in cooperation to your land and I would be willing to work on any canal plans with you. I do not wish to be a nuisance and perhaps through working together I can make up for any plans I may have foiled by joining.

Read my sig.

(Quick repost for visibility)

Logic

2015-02-18, 03:21 PM

I am currently at work, and work computers prevent viewing of anything in google docs. Is that the most accurate and up to date version of the trade tables?

Snowfire

2015-02-18, 03:32 PM

I am currently at work, and work computers prevent viewing of anything in google docs. Is that the most accurate and up to date version of the trade tables?

It's pretty much the only truly up to date version of the trade tables. GitP's table system became unfit for purpose a while back.

Morph Bark

2015-02-18, 03:34 PM

Quinton, you should probably update the OP to include a link to the trade table, rather than the trade thread. And add in the [Project] thing in front of the name. (Editing the OP will give the option somewhere near the top.)

moossabi

2015-02-18, 04:49 PM

It's pretty much the only truly up to date version of the trade tables. GitP's table system became unfit for purpose a while back.

And to this day I do not understand how to use it...

Also, while I'm here, can I use an f5 action to organize Atheism?

TechnOkami

2015-02-18, 06:16 PM

Speaking of (potential) new regions, TechnO, if you want to help with writing up regions still, I have a couple things I'd like done once Sunday rolls around and I get a confirmation of region acquisition!

I could potentially be of service...

Philote

2015-02-18, 06:47 PM

Read my sig.

Alright. My point about working together still stands.

moossabi

2015-02-18, 06:59 PM

I could potentially be of service...

Also, if you have time I need help with region 146.

HalfTangible

2015-02-18, 07:31 PM

Also, if you have time I need help with region 146.

I'm sorry - i missed something, is this a war? Because if it's still going next round I can send a chapter to fight with ya?

moossabi

2015-02-18, 07:36 PM

I'm sorry - i missed something, is this a war? Because if it's still going next round I can send a chapter to fight with ya?

War? What war? I'm just too lazy to write up that region myself. Why would there be a war?

HalfTangible

2015-02-18, 07:38 PM

War? What war? I'm just too lazy to write up that region myself. Why would there be a war?

Oh. I thought by 'help with' you meant 'colonize' or 'pacify' or somesuch. :smallredface:

Morph Bark

2015-02-18, 07:39 PM

Don't mention the war! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0&t=8s)

moossabi

2015-02-18, 07:54 PM

Oh. I thought by 'help with' you meant 'colonize' or 'pacify' or somesuch. :smallredface:

...

He doesn't have a nation, how would that work? Is he secretly playing as one of the gods? :smallconfused::smalleek::smalltongue:

HalfTangible

2015-02-18, 07:58 PM

...

He doesn't have a nation, how would that work? Is he secretly playing as one of the gods? :smallconfused::smalleek::smalltongue:

You said a region, not a name.

HalfTangible

2015-02-18, 08:18 PM

Morph: Check your betrothals. Jack's the human who stays in Sycia, Aion's the wolfborn who leaves. :smallwink::smalltongue: We discussed this already

Morph Bark

2015-02-18, 08:27 PM

I copied it from our PMs, so I guess I copied it from an older one. Noticed that it also shouldna have been Tianshi, but Iulia. Got it right on the family tree, at least.

zabbarot

2015-02-18, 09:14 PM

Oh wow, whole new thread already half a day old.

On dragons, I'd be more interested in what Nezet could lift tbh. Can he pick up a warship?

moossabi

2015-02-18, 09:57 PM

QUESTION!

Can I change an action that had a failed roll?

Also, I don't like the forum dice. I try to pull a power play and then everything goes to heck. :smallannoyed:

Aedilred

2015-02-18, 10:09 PM

QUESTION!

Can I change an action that had a failed roll
There is nothing to stop you, but it is generally considered bad form.

I should probably point out those rolls are pretty good, objectively speaking, given they're both higher than average for 2d6.

moossabi

2015-02-18, 10:14 PM

There is nothing to stop you, but it is generally considered bad form.

I should probably point out those rolls are pretty good, objectively speaking, given they're both higher than average for 2d6.

:smalleek: Oh poop. :smallannoyed:

I'll be back!!!

TheDarkDM

2015-02-18, 10:16 PM

Oh wow, whole new thread already half a day old.

On dragons, I'd be more interested in what Nezet could lift tbh. Can he pick up a warship?

Probably (i'm assuming you mean pick up and carry while flying, because standing on solid ground he absolutely could). Really, it depends how we're quantifying a warship - the sloop sized things we've been working with as basic ocean-faring ships? Almost certainly. The new ships that Aed's tech will allow? I'm less sure of that. Something as large as the Second Wind? Definitely not.

QuintonBeck

2015-02-18, 10:48 PM

QUESTION!

Can I change an action that had a failed roll?

Also, I don't like the forum dice. I try to pull a power play and then everything goes to heck. :smallannoyed:

What Aed said. Not illegal, but bad form and poor sportsmanship in most cases.

HalfTangible

2015-02-18, 10:50 PM

There is nothing to stop you, but it is generally considered bad form.

I should probably point out those rolls are pretty good, objectively speaking, given they're both higher than average for 2d6.

Personally, I'd be okay with it, so long as he doesn't reroll.

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 12:10 AM

Oh wow, whole new thread already half a day old.

On dragons, I'd be more interested in what Nezet could lift tbh. Can he pick up a warship?
Great question that...

Probably (i'm assuming you mean pick up and carry while flying, because standing on solid ground he absolutely could). Really, it depends how we're quantifying a warship - the sloop sized things we've been working with as basic ocean-faring ships? Almost certainly. The new ships that Aed's tech will allow? I'm less sure of that. Something as large as the Second Wind? Definitely not.
Awwwwww.... I wanted paratrooping dreadnaughts carried by Dragons. Maybe with a few more F10s? :smalltongue:

Tychris1

2015-02-19, 01:20 AM

*Begins sharpening bone knife, sitting in corner smothered in mur*

*Eyes everyone walking into the thread*

Proceed as normal.

lt_murgen

2015-02-19, 08:55 AM

Personally, I'd be okay with it, so long as he doesn't reroll.

I echo those that said it isn't illegal, but is bad form. From a fluff perspective, rounds are 5 years. It seems illogical that you spent 5 years attempting to do something and it didn't work- so then it didn't happen, and something else did?

Saying it is Ok as long as there is no re-roll, opens the door to a whole bunch of potential abuses. Say I go on a missionary kick. I could create six actions to spread the faith to six regions, and then make six rolls. I could pick and choose the strongest rolls, and discard the rest. With the left over, I use them for project/building work.

Even if a roll fails, it still is credited towards skill advancement. So it really isn't a wasted action. I know I failed many, many times on diplomatic colonization rolls. But even the failures helped raise my diplomacy to the point where I succeeded eventually. I think it makes for a good story.

But folks will do it, and there really is no way to enforce not making those kind of changes. I would just encourage everyone not to in the spirit of fair play.

HalfTangible

2015-02-19, 11:29 AM

I echo those that said it isn't illegal, but is bad form. From a fluff perspective, rounds are 5 years. It seems illogical that you spent 5 years attempting to do something and it didn't work- so then it didn't happen, and something else did?

Saying it is Ok as long as there is no re-roll, opens the door to a whole bunch of potential abuses. Say I go on a missionary kick. I could create six actions to spread the faith to six regions, and then make six rolls. I could pick and choose the strongest rolls, and discard the rest. With the left over, I use them for project/building work.

Even if a roll fails, it still is credited towards skill advancement. So it really isn't a wasted action. I know I failed many, many times on diplomatic colonization rolls. But even the failures helped raise my diplomacy to the point where I succeeded eventually. I think it makes for a good story.

But folks will do it, and there really is no way to enforce not making those kind of changes. I would just encourage everyone not to in the spirit of fair play.

Let me rephrase.

I'm okay with it so long as the action is a completely different one, and he's not using the opportunity to make a different roll.

I'd still recommend saving rolls until the last minute, and yeah, it's bad form.

zabbarot

2015-02-19, 12:21 PM

I've always treated rolling as if it meant an action was locked from that point forward.

I edit my action post often, and don't actually roll for anything 'til towards the end of the round when I'm sure that's what I want to do with the action. Otherwise I agree with murgen on this.

Pseudo ninja'd by HT :smalltongue: You posted between me refreshing the page and hitting reply.

Edit: nevermind... I just looked at the time stamps and realized that I must not have refreshed the page at all. : |

Logic

2015-02-19, 03:08 PM

Whoo! I have finally (partially) updated my Ruler Family Tree. It is still missing a few people and their birthdates, but everyone in the line of succession is is noted but the current heir.

moossabi

2015-02-19, 06:05 PM

OhwaitasecondIhaveprintingpress!

I knew I was forgetting something...

So that bumps my 15 up to a 16, and I can colonize 160. That was a derp. :smalltongue:

Aedilred

2015-02-19, 06:19 PM

OhwaitasecondIhaveprintingpress!

I knew I was forgetting something...

So that bumps my 15 up to a 16, and I can colonize 160. That was a derp. :smalltongue:

Unfortunately, however, you don't have the resources to use the printing press.

moossabi

2015-02-19, 06:23 PM

Unfortunately, however, you don't have the resources to use the printing press.

Guilder gave me wood as part of the deal.

ImperatorV

2015-02-19, 06:24 PM

Inspired by the thread title...

The Demons of Telluris

Balefrog, Ravager of Souls, Demon of Fire
Baleshark, Harbinger of War, Demon of Water
Balemole, Lord of Plague, Demon of Earth
Balecrow, Bringer of Famine, Demon of Air
Balepig, Keeper of Oaths, Demon of Light
Balespider, Lord of Deception, Demon of Darkness
Balehorse, Master of Metal, Demon of CREEEEEEEEE
Baledog, Guardian of the Damned, Demon of The Hunt
Baledragon, Right Hand of the Lord of Demons

And finally...

BALEGOAT, Emperor of All Demons

QuintonBeck

2015-02-19, 06:33 PM

Gengy

2015-02-19, 06:35 PM

Balebale, Feeder of Demons, Demon of Hay
Bale-Christian, Actor of Demons, He Who is Batman
Baleout, Escape of Demons, Demon to Catch

:smalltongue:

Aedilred

2015-02-19, 06:39 PM

Guilder gave me wood as part of the deal.

*invades Guilder*

moossabi

2015-02-19, 06:40 PM

Balebale, Feeder of Demons, Demon of Hay
Bale-Christian, Actor of Demons, He Who is Batman
Baleout, Escape of Demons, Demon to Catch

:smalltongue:

Dibs on Christian Bale attacking Valasharix. Bonus points for the throat cancer voice.

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 06:44 PM

Guilder gave me wood as part of the deal.
Indeed I did, as was very wisely set up. :smallwink:

*invades Guilder*

There's nothing else more Jarrish... Or dare I say "jarring"? :smalltongue:

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-19, 06:45 PM

Dibs on Christian Bale attacking Valasharix. Bonus points for the throat cancer voice.

Pffft, he's got nothing on the Vasari. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNQ3vQIrMhI)

moossabi

2015-02-19, 06:47 PM

Indeed I did, as was very wisely set up. :smallwink:

Congrats, you're now recognized as a colleague nation.

HalfTangible

2015-02-19, 06:51 PM

Guilder gave me wood as part of the deal.*snrk*

*invades Guilder*Get in line. Starts back there.

Dibs on Christian Bale attacking Valasharix. Bonus points for the throat cancer voice.

IDONThuvTHRRTcAnsore *punch*

Aedilred

2015-02-19, 06:59 PM

Get in line. Starts back there.

Yeah, but half the people in it are me. :smalltongue:

There's nothing else more Jarrish... Or dare I say "jarring"?
Strictly speaking*, the real centre of Guilder-hate in the KCS is Vennland, although they'll move with the times.

*Pro tip: There's no sexier way to start a sentence, apart perhaps from "Well, technically..."

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 07:02 PM

Congrats, you're now recognized as a colleague nation.
What does this mean? Do I get frequent-flier discounts?

*snrk*

Get in line. Starts back there.

What line is this? :smallconfused:

HalfTangible

2015-02-19, 07:06 PM

What line is this? :smallconfused:

The 'i got a bone to pick with Guilder' line. I was joking.

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 07:13 PM

The 'i got a bone to pick with Guilder' line. I was joking.

I thought that was the line we used to measure the circumference of the globe?

ImperatorV

2015-02-19, 07:13 PM

Balebale, Feeder of Demons, Demon of Hay
Bale-Christian, Actor of Demons, He Who is Batman
Baleout, Escape of Demons, Demon to Catch

:smalltongue:

The question becomes are we keeping this silly but believable or going full-out erfworld?

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 07:14 PM

The question becomes are we keeping this silly but believable or going full-out erfworld?

Erfworld *is* the definition of silly but still immersive tho...

moossabi

2015-02-19, 07:35 PM

What does this mean? Do I get frequent-flier discounts?

50% off for an embassy. Or an alliance. Or something. :smalltongue:

DoomHat

2015-02-19, 07:55 PM

Oh no... Imp, what have you done...
Now I have to grind Faith up as fast as possible. I need to get my miracle together before the end of Khoonbish's reign or the Balehorse will manifest.

And I am not kidding, there are things going on in Cree lands that (it hadn't occurred to me until now) will lead to conjuring the Balehorse if I can't preemptively Faith 10 to stop it.

Balehorse, Herald of Ruin, Demon of Song

zabbarot

2015-02-19, 08:19 PM

Yeah, but half the people in it are me. :smalltongue:

Strictly speaking*, the real centre of Guilder-hate in the KCS is Vennland, although they'll move with the times.

*Pro tip: There's no sexier way to start a sentence, apart perhaps from "Well, technically..."

Here. This is relevant. (http://xkcd.com/1475/)

Oh no... Imp, what have you done...
Now I have to grind Faith up as fast as possible. I need to get my miracle together before the end of Khoonbish's reign or the Balehorse will manifest.

And I am not kidding, there are things going on in Cree lands that (it hadn't occurred to me until now) will lead to conjuring the Balehorse if I can't preemptively Faith 10 to stop it.

Balehorse, Herald of Ruin, Demon of Song

You want we should send you more drugs?

Morph Bark

2015-02-19, 08:29 PM

Everyone should send Doom more drugs, it's the only way to be sure.

Erfworld *is* the definition of silly but still immersive tho...

Eh, for me it was more just silly, to the point that everytime a non-main character showed up or their creatures were shown the immersion was broken a bit for me. It was like the difference between a board game and a good tabletop role-playing game or a video game.

ImperatorV

2015-02-19, 09:42 PM

Erfworld *is* the definition of silly but still immersive tho...

There's a difference between "silly but believable" and "absolutely ridiculous." Bale-Christian jumps right over that line and the other two straddle it at best. Erfworld works because everything takes the ridiculousness to such a a level that it becomes a feature of the world in of itself (see: Signamancy). I'd prefer if we kept our real world references to deniable as things that the natives could have come up with.

Oh no... Imp, what have you done...
Now I have to grind Faith up as fast as possible. I need to get my miracle together before the end of Khoonbish's reign or the Balehorse will manifest.

And I am not kidding, there are things going on in Cree lands that (it hadn't occurred to me until now) will lead to conjuring the Balehorse if I can't preemptively Faith 10 to stop it.

Balehorse, Herald of Ruin, Demon of Song

Glad I could give you a plotline :smallbiggrin:

DoomHat

2015-02-19, 10:19 PM

There's a difference between "silly but believable" and "absolutely ridiculous." Bale-Christian jumps right over that line and the other two straddle it at best. Erfworld works because everything takes the ridiculousness to such a a level that it becomes a feature of the world in of itself (see: Signamancy). I'd prefer if we kept our real world references to deniable as things that the natives could have come up with.

Stupid as it is, the BaleChristian is by far the most terrifying of all the hypothetical demons so far discussed.

For this Reason (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8oIDvCl6lA)

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 11:02 PM

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-19, 11:06 PM

Hey, a bit of shameless, very late advertisement here. If anyone is interested in trading for Lacertals, Leather, or Lacertal Milk, go ahead and please let me know. :smallsmile:

SamBurke

2015-02-19, 11:18 PM

Hey, a bit of shameless, very late advertisement here. If anyone is interested in trading for Lacertals, Leather, or Lacertal Milk, go ahead and please let me know. :smallsmile:

You should know, those are the hottest goods ever to pass through Guilderene markets. Region's infrastructure got heavily developed from it. Most interestingly, that's where Buttercup made most of her fortune, including the famed trades with Montoyon Gebui. :smallwink:

zabbarot

2015-02-20, 09:11 AM

Will Tech Adaptation be making a comeback anytime soon or should I just make my own version of a tech using different resources instead?

WaylanderX

2015-02-20, 09:39 AM

Will Tech Adaptation be making a comeback anytime soon or should I just make my own version of a tech using different resources instead?

Tech Adaptation as a project is probably not returning period. There are debates going on about making adaptation a Cur5 action however. the GMs are currently discussing the tech reworks and the adaptation problem is hopefully getting solved shortly after.

zabbarot

2015-02-20, 10:19 AM

K.

I've been doing a lot of thinking on techs and how technology should advance in general on Telluris. I pulled up the Civ 5 tech tree for comparison (Large image (http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/5/54/Bnw-techtree.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130522013218)), and based on that I'd say right now as a whole we're basically in the late Renaissance flirting with the Industrial era in a very noncommittal way :smalltongue: Come on, just the tip D:

We had a discussion once before about how the game should advance technologically, so I'd like to open that back up if anyone is interested.

moossabi

2015-02-20, 11:18 AM

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-20, 02:00 PM

We had a discussion once before about how the game should advance technologically, so I'd like to open that back up if anyone is interested.

Personally, I'm interested in keeping the setting completely or mostly nonindustrial, as frankly the population isn't really high enough to make the early parts function without knowing what comes later (and also I signed up for medieval-ish play). If we do go industrial at all, I'd greatly prefer that it at the very least take a very different path than it did in RL (or a typical Steampunk narrative, anyway), as that way we might even see something not trite and overdone.

To be honest I think that trying to straitjacket this game's technology into the RL tech tree too hard is doomed to failure, simply because this is not Earth and is thus unlikely to respect Earth's chains of events beyond what is mandated by logic alone.

TheWombatOfDoom

2015-02-20, 02:03 PM

To be honest I think that trying to straitjacket this game's technology into the RL tech tree too hard is doomed to failure, simply because this is not Earth and is thus unlikely to respect Earth's chains of events beyond what is mandated by logic alone.

Personally, this is what I think everytime someone's like - that's not how its like on earth, so it has to be impossible/improbable.

moossabi

2015-02-20, 02:12 PM

...unlikely to respect Earth's chains of events beyond what is mandated by logic alone.

Logic's taking over as GM? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-20, 02:18 PM

Personally, this is what I think everytime someone's like - that's not how its like on earth, so it has to be impossible/improbable.

That's not necessarily fair either, since Telluris is functionally like Earth except where stated otherwise. Gravity works mostly the same way, water makes things wet, fire is hot, etc. etc.

All I meant by that statement is that the people of Telluris have different resources available to them than the people of earth do or did, and some inventions make varying degrees of sense. For example, it is highly unlikely, given the wide availability of flying animals and the knowledge of how to effectively ride them for battle or transport, that any government in Telluris would put serious effort at any point into the development of a rickety flying machine.

People are generally good about using unique resources to their advantage, as can be seen in a wide variety of technologies, but they're less good about not progressing toward OOC ends that don't necessarily make a great amount of sense to pursue IC.

lt_murgen

2015-02-20, 03:25 PM

Logic's taking over as GM? :smallconfused::smalltongue:
There is logic and then there is Logic. Logic embraces logic, but logic is not the entirety of Logic. Neither is Logic entirely logical, except in situations where Logic’s logic is logical to Logic.

Snowfire

2015-02-20, 03:26 PM

F10: Turn Logic into the avatar of logic.

HalfTangible

2015-02-20, 03:28 PM

F10: Turn Logic into the avatar of logic.

[Military]: Declare who's-on-first style rants that are delibrately made confusing by confusing nouns, verbs and adjectives with other nouns, verbs and adjectives punishable by death. By orbital strike.

Snowfire

2015-02-20, 03:30 PM

[Military]: Declare who's-on-first style rants that are deliberately made confusing by confusing nouns, verbs and adjectives with other nouns, verbs and adjectives punishable by death. By orbital strike.

Winning Tactic: Orbital Bombardment

TheDarkDM

2015-02-20, 03:56 PM

Winning Tactic: Orbital Bombardment

Required Unit: Nezetkhamun :smallwink:

moossabi

2015-02-20, 04:03 PM

Required Unit: Nezetkhamun :smallwink:

Or any other Deity. I doubt that he could survive in space.

Logic

2015-02-20, 04:05 PM

RE: the Logic/logic debate/divide -

You should see the same arguments when playing a game of werewolf and/or mafia!

Snowfire

2015-02-20, 04:13 PM

RE: the Logic/logic debate/divide -

You should see the same arguments when playing a game of werewolf and/or mafia!

All hail the (new) GM, for he has spoken!

Sorry QB, you're being replaced :smalltongue:

Morph Bark

2015-02-20, 04:24 PM

Aedilred

2015-02-20, 04:27 PM

DurkBlanston

2015-02-20, 06:21 PM

Throwing another voice behind Blade/Aed and reiterating my opinion that there's plenty that can be done without jumping on industrialization and tanks (or mechs) and as a matter of course producing techs really isn't nor do I think it should be the point in this game. I've produced one, to make horses mechanically applicable mounts. Not everyone should be as much of a stick in the mud as me (Just kidding, you all should be) but techs have a game-wide impact. As much as I want to ignore zeppelins (especially the Marius Pride) they exist and I probably would have considered departing if MECKs had become commonplace but they didn't thankfully.

All the people wanting to push the edge of the technological envelope need to realize doing so impacts everyone else's gameplay and the world at large, it's not an internal matter and us realist/logical types, or myself anyway, don't want to see a cabal of players push the game world in their chosen direction anymore than anyone wants another player to tell them how their country/the world is without any input from said player. I'm fine with techs that make sense and keep things paced slowly but I'm not really here to play the "How quick can we get to futurism" game.

I play Civlization with a mod that caps the age at Medieval so take from that what you will... :smalltongue:

HalfTangible

2015-02-20, 06:43 PM

RE: technology, I think a good idea here would be to try and look at games with a tech/skill/talent tree that includes both fantasy/scifi parts and things we can recognize in real life. Fallen Enchantress, Warlock: Master of the Arcane and Endless Legend, but also a lot of MMOs that use technology as the basis for abilities (specifically engineers and alchemists). All those could serve as great inspiration for routes that technology could take without going in an Earth-like direction.

Generally, what I do is look at a given culture and its current resources and ask myself what they need, and what they would try to get what they need with as few new ideas as possible. Lampide started creating steampunk tech because they wanted holy power on the front lines, and steam can be made from holy water (well, okay, they wanted to cleanse things with holy power but I didn't want them to burn cities down. So I gave 'em superheated steam)

Magic opens up all sorts of ideas and possibilities that we didn't have in our world, yes, but what stays constant is that brand-new technology is usually created through necessity.

SamBurke

2015-02-20, 07:25 PM

Personally, I'm interested in keeping the setting completely or mostly nonindustrial, as frankly the population isn't really high enough to make the early parts function without knowing what comes later (and also I signed up for medieval-ish play). If we do go industrial at all, I'd greatly prefer that it at the very least take a very different path than it did in RL (or a typical Steampunk narrative, anyway), as that way we might even see something not trite and overdone.

To be honest I think that trying to straitjacket this game's technology into the RL tech tree too hard is doomed to failure, simply because this is not Earth and is thus unlikely to respect Earth's chains of events beyond what is mandated by logic alone.I do promise that I'm not trying to write a typical narrative, nor one that is really "overdone" such as straight steampunk...

But everything has been done, pretty much. It's possible to have something "new" ideas, but they're usually the same old idea, cast as new. That's what I'm trying to do.

In the ditch on the other side of the road is the "IRL only" argument, something which makes me antsy to say the least. As Wombat said, this is definitely not IRL, and there should be clear differences. Even the slightest change of technology can drastically effect the world, so the introduction of magic and more... Should leave it different.

Throwing another voice behind Blade/Aed and reiterating my opinion that there's plenty that can be done without jumping on industrialization and tanks (or mechs) and as a matter of course producing techs really isn't nor do I think it should be the point in this game. I've produced one, to make horses mechanically applicable mounts. Not everyone should be as much of a stick in the mud as me (Just kidding, you all should be) but techs have a game-wide impact. As much as I want to ignore zeppelins (especially the Marius Pride) they exist and I probably would have considered departing if MECKs had become commonplace but they didn't thankfully.

All the people wanting to push the edge of the technological envelope need to realize doing so impacts everyone else's gameplay and the world at large, it's not an internal matter and us realist/logical types, or myself anyway, don't want to see a cabal of players push the game world in their chosen direction anymore than anyone wants another player to tell them how their country/the world is without any input from said player. I'm fine with techs that make sense and keep things paced slowly but I'm not really here to play the "How quick can we get to futurism" game.

I play Civlization with a mod that caps the age at Medieval so take from that what you will... :smalltongue:And I play Civ to get up to rifling as soon as I can, pushing through techs as the primary goal.

So I do know that what I do affects the world, but there is a not insignificant section of people who absolutely want to get to a specialized level of technology (UJR, Hurosha, EoD, Niskovia, even Ashenia's in on the mechanical/weird techs angle), and that's how they want to both fluff and play. So both sides need to be careful and play their game, but watch for the other.

The question is really just how that can look... because on the same turn that Carmine invented Caravels (Circa mid 1400s), Hurosha invented Aerial Fortresses, and it's not like we can or should punish either player for creating two battleship abilities. So how would a co-existence look in character and out? Because while MECKs themselves are (probably) shelved, Guilder is going down the Industrial Revolution path, so I'd like to make sure for myself, and for all the others similarly interested, that we can keep the game together.

Generally, what I do is look at a given culture and its current resources and ask myself what they need, and what they would try to get what they need with as few new ideas as possible. Lampide started creating steampunk tech because they wanted holy power on the front lines, and steam can be made from holy water (well, okay, they wanted to cleanse things with holy power but I didn't want them to burn cities down. So I gave 'em superheated steam)

Magic opens up all sorts of ideas and possibilities that we didn't have in our world, yes, but what stays constant is that brand-new technology is usually created through necessity.
Yes. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that. The thing is that in some ways, the mechanics hinder that idea: many revolutionary military techs show up during war, immediately before during or after, but there's little chance of that here.

Aedilred

2015-02-20, 09:24 PM

=
The question is really just how that can look... because on the same turn that Carmine invented Caravels (Circa mid 1400s), Hurosha invented Aerial Fortresses, and it's not like we can or should punish either player for creating two battleship abilities. So how would a co-existence look in character and out? Because while MECKs themselves are (probably) shelved, Guilder is going down the Industrial Revolution path, so I'd like to make sure for myself, and for all the others similarly interested, that we can keep the game together.

Well, part of this is because there's no consensus on existing tech levels or passive technological development. I looked at it as an embarrassment that there had been no development in ship design since the very first ships capable of traversing open water, and that in order to keep up with where the rest of the world roughly was some sort of further development was probably necessary. On the other hand some players have assumed that any time a tech is introduced it immediately caps at the maximum capability of that technology, hence why steam power was miniaturised and hybridised into MECK suits almost immediately when IRL it took about a hundred years after the development of a functional steam engine to produce one capable of any real locomotion at all.

Neither approach is necessarily wrong - but they are probably ultimately incompatible, and the longer it goes on without any resolution the sillier things are going to get. Of course, part of it is that people get excited about their own tech ideas - especially when they don't get to introduce techs very often - and can race away down some portion of the "tech tree" leaving other stuff way behind (hence, for instance, the failure to develop ships past a very basic "official" level until now while we have sci-fi Aliens suits elsewhere).

(It probably also doesn't help that some of the techs aren't particularly specifically defined, Ocean-Faring Ships being a prime offender in that regard as it's not really clear what level of development that was already at).

That's not to say that I want to stick rigidly to IRL development - I can't think of anything more boring and indeed some of my concerns in the past have been that development has seemed at times to be heading in an inexorably modern-RL direction both technologically and politically, and around the time we got to a twentieth-century RL world is about when I'd be saying adios. But given this is a world-building game, and real life is our best source for how a world works over the history of civilisation, it's a useful reference point for maintaining any kind of believability about Telluris. It's a kind of "know the rules before you can break them" scenario - and since there are a lot of people involved in the world-building side of things, it's also worth questioning whether it's in the interest of the community for some of those rules to be broken, and to what extent.

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-20, 09:37 PM

The question is really just how that can look... because on the same turn that Carmine invented Caravels (Circa mid 1400s)

I've seen this error made elsewhere and initially made it myself, but Carvel-building is distinct from Caravel-building. Carmine invented the former, not the latter.

It really is rather absurd that the words are so close together in spelling and just similar enough in subject to be easily confused.

Generally, I agree strongly with Aed though.

TheDarkDM

2015-02-20, 10:23 PM

HalfTangible

2015-02-20, 10:32 PM

I'll throw my hat into the ring agreeing with Aed and Blade. The bolded sentence in particular is something that vexes me whenever techs get brought up. Then again, it also vexes me that technologies are so few and far between, to the extent that we're now faced with the situation that a few people cheesing the system threaten to seize control of the tech level of the entire world. Ideally, techs should be a little more commonplace to introduce and significantly more reasonable in intended application.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have a problem with new techs being powerful and useful more quickly than is realistic, since we already need to do a five round project AND a c10 action just to get a new tech >.>

SamBurke

2015-02-21, 01:48 AM

Well, part of this is because there's no consensus on existing tech levels or passive technological development. I looked at it as an embarrassment that there had been no development in ship design since the very first ships capable of traversing open water, and that in order to keep up with where the rest of the world roughly was some sort of further development was probably necessary. On the other hand some players have assumed that any time a tech is introduced it immediately caps at the maximum capability of that technology, hence why steam power was miniaturised and hybridised into MECK suits almost immediately when IRL it took about a hundred years after the development of a functional steam engine to produce one capable of any real locomotion at all.

Neither approach is necessarily wrong - but they are probably ultimately incompatible, and the longer it goes on without any resolution the sillier things are going to get. Of course, part of it is that people get excited about their own tech ideas - especially when they don't get to introduce techs very often - and can race away down some portion of the "tech tree" leaving other stuff way behind (hence, for instance, the failure to develop ships past a very basic "official" level until now while we have sci-fi Aliens suits elsewhere).

Agreed that they're incompatible in many ways, but many seemingly opposite playstyles can eke out coexistence, so long as they have their separate ways. The question is more balance (which itself is a subset of "playability"/fun), and how to make it such that people with carvels can balance against others.

As to the Steam->MECKs bit, I kind of disagree. There's been quite a bit of exploration to get there. It took a fair while to hit trains, but I assumed that was because of the use of Goldfire and similarly 1UP'd resources. MECKs themselves took that infamous Arcangelo project, which was a government backed project similar to V2s or the Apollo Missions. Government power tends to make things advance faster, especially if there's a good motivator.

Though the fact that governments are assumed to be the main actor in the world is something that's always cheesed me off a bit, because I think it ignores lots of other factors, but that is an entire shelf full of canned worms.

I've seen this error made elsewhere and initially made it myself, but Carvel-building is distinct from Caravel-building. Carmine invented the former, not the latter.

It really is rather absurd that the words are so close together in spelling and just similar enough in subject to be easily confused. The reason the words are close together is because Caravels are built with a Carvel design. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvel_%28boat_building%29#History) Carvel building shouldn't have a dash, because you aren't building Carvels, you're building something (say, a caravel or carrack) with the Carvel technique. :smallwink:

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have a problem with new techs being powerful and useful more quickly than is realistic, since we already need to do a five round project AND a c10 action just to get a new tech >.>
This ties in to both sides: I'm saying that I think techs should be powerful, but Dark proposed that techs be more common but weaker.

Aedilred

2015-02-21, 05:05 AM

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have a problem with new techs being powerful and useful more quickly than is realistic, since we already need to do a five round project AND a c10 action just to get a new tech >.>
You don't need to do a five-round project for a tech... Just a C10. The value and achievability of a C10 varies enormously between players. A non-GK single player might get to do a Cur10 once every ten rounds if that, and even a GK player might not manage much more frequent milestones than that depending on how attached they are to their rulers, how much attention they pay to non-Cur stuff, etc. I've done two in about 25 rounds; Durk's done one in about twenty. There might even be one or two who've been here forever and haven't done even one (Chief?) Conversely the Triumvirate used to churn them out for fun, and the UJR will probably be in a position to do that again.

As to the Steam->MECKs bit, I kind of disagree. There's been quite a bit of exploration to get there. It took a fair while to hit trains, but I assumed that was because of the use of Goldfire and similarly 1UP'd resources. MECKs themselves took that infamous Arcangelo project, which was a government backed project similar to V2s or the Apollo Missions. Government power tends to make things advance faster, especially if there's a good motivator.
Even so, assuming that a Great Project represents 25 years' worth of development and four or five, say, went into the MECKs (but concentrated in a smaller space, so the actual development time was shorter), and assuming that steam power at the time of its invention was roughly equivalent to the Newcomen engine then the equivalent amount of time IRL takes us roughly from Newcomen to Brunel, rather than Newcomen to Weyland-Yutani. And iirc rather less than four or five GPs' worth of actions went into the Arcangelo; it was more equivalent to one and a half or so.

The reason the words are close together is because Caravels are built with a Carvel design. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvel_%28boat_building%29#History) Carvel building shouldn't have a dash, because you aren't building Carvels, you're building something (say, a caravel or carrack) with the Carvel technique. :smallwink:
Well, the tech should really be called "Carvel-built ships" or "carvel-building techniques" or the like and the hyphen would be completely correct in that instance, but I shortened it for the sake of brevity.

SamBurke

2015-02-21, 01:35 PM

Even so, assuming that a Great Project represents 25 years' worth of development and four or five, say, went into the MECKs (but concentrated in a smaller space, so the actual development time was shorter), and assuming that steam power at the time of its invention was roughly equivalent to the Newcomen engine then the equivalent amount of time IRL takes us roughly from Newcomen to Brunel, rather than Newcomen to Weyland-Yutani. And iirc rather less than four or five GPs' worth of actions went into the Arcangelo; it was more equivalent to one and a half or so.

Well, the tech should really be called "Carvel-built ships" or "carvel-building techniques" or the like and the hyphen would be completely correct in that instance, but I shortened it for the sake of brevity.
Eh. Misnamed techs don't matter too much, I was just pointing out that I was still correct, no matter how you dice it. :smalltongue:

And I think you missed the point that I was making. This isn't a case of steam trains, where the private sector does it in a time of peace. This is a case of three quite powerful, very warlike governments (Middle Guilder, Glazfell, Tzalteclan--though I don't know if Dark added any actions, he supplied resources) decided that they were going to do something, and by gosh darn golly they did. So this would be more comparable to the Manhattan Project than steam travel.

Logic

2015-02-21, 02:02 PM

Eh. Misnamed techs don't matter too much, I was just pointing out that I was still correct, no matter how you dice it. :smalltongue:

And I think you missed the point that I was making. This isn't a case of steam trains, where the private sector does it in a time of peace. This is a case of three quite powerful, very warlike governments (Middle Guilder, Glazfell, Tzalteclan--though I don't know if Dark added any actions, he supplied resources) decided that they were going to do something, and by gosh darn golly they did. So this would be more comparable to the Manhattan Project than steam travel.

This inspires me to invent the "Gambling" technology just to punish those greedy Merchants of Guilder. I'm not sure who I would distribute this tech to yet, either.... :smalltongue:

SamBurke

2015-02-21, 02:02 PM

This inspires me to invent the "Gambling" technology just to punish those greedy Merchants of Guilder. I'm not sure who I would distribute this tech to yet, either.... :smalltongue:

Guilder's sailors would enjoy some gambling, yup! Princes... eh. They get enough of a rush playing the markets at the International Currency Exchange. :smallwink:

QuintonBeck

2015-02-21, 07:07 PM

~Round Closes in 14 Hours~

zabbarot

2015-02-21, 07:58 PM

On techs, I think it might help if it were easier for people to reach techs, but not in a way that would make it easier for the UJR. (we can beat around the bush, but really this is what 'democracy' is good for)

What if Techs were no longer a once per ruler action? Basically you use your first Cur10 like you already do, but you can effectively 'refresh' it by doing a research project(2 or 5 rounds? allow people to assist?) or something. So all those people who keep one ruler for 60 years don't have to suffer through 40 years of scientific stagnation after he writes down one good idea :smalltongue:

The UJR will pump out a lot of technology. We have a stupidly large techtree written out already, but a couple things come with that. First off they aren't Civilization style massive jumps like cavalry to tanks, most of them are baby steps like all the things that should have been between steam engines and the miniaturized engines on the back of MECKS, or even between Steam Engines and Trains. Second they'll diverge pretty wildly from real life technology, since it's all theorycrafting on where people with access to the resources we have in game would go. They still have a lot of the same basic needs as real life people of course, so some techs will run parallel with real life.

I don't want to set a precedent with our techs though. If we're doing baby steps and making techs every couple turns, I don't think anybody else should be obligated to take the same small steps when they make their first tech in 10 rounds. Fluff can be behind that I think "Our greatest minds been working on this for 50 years" or whatnot.

Gengy

2015-02-21, 08:06 PM

What if Techs were no longer a once per ruler action? Basically you use your first Cur10 like you already do, but you can effectively 'refresh' it by doing a research project(2 or 5 rounds? allow people to assist?) or something. So all those people who keep one ruler for 60 years don't have to suffer through 40 years of scientific stagnation after he writes down one good idea :smalltongue:

I like this idea. Would allow for research agreements; Efficient Building would not qualify, and I'd personally think it has to be a 5 round great project. The only question is: If you get people working together on the project, would both leaders get a C10 refresh, or only one? I'd recommend only one - the one who started the project - but that everyone who helped research would get the tech that is developed as a non-action when the 'refreshed' C10 is used the following turn.

Ie:

Round 1
Player A starts a Research Project (1/5)
Player B helps Player A for a Research Project (2/5)

Round 2
Player A continues a Research Project (3/5)
Player B helps Player A continue a Research Project (4/5)
Player C adds that last bit of Research Data (5/5)

Round 3
Player A uses a "Research C10" action to create the new [Tech] Blueberry Muffins
Non-Action: Player B and Player C acquire Blueberry Muffins as part of their Research Agreement with Player A.

...just something to think about.

SamBurke

2015-02-21, 08:09 PM

I like this idea. Would allow for research agreements; Efficient Building would not qualify, and I'd personally think it has to be a 5 round great project. The only question is: If you get people working together on the project, would both leaders get a C10 refresh, or only one? I'd recommend only one - the one who started the project - but that everyone who helped research would get the tech that is developed as a non-action when the 'refreshed' C10 is used the following turn.

Ie:

Round 1
Player A starts a Research Project (1/5)
Player B helps Player A for a Research Project (2/5)

Round 2
Player A continues a Research Project (3/5)
Player B helps Player A continue a Research Project (4/5)
Player C adds that last bit of Research Data (5/5)

Round 3
Player A uses a "Research C10" action to create the new [Tech] Blueberry Muffins
Non-Action: Player B and Player C acquire Blueberry Muffins as part of their Research Agreement with Player A.

...just something to think about.
But that means new techs will show up every 3 turns, if you get two people working together. If there's a coalition... it would be insane.

The tech table is in enough disarray as it is to handle that kind of speed. :smalleek:

Gengy

2015-02-21, 08:18 PM

I do agree that it would need some kinks worked out... I'm just proposing an idea. :smallcool:

HalfTangible

2015-02-21, 08:23 PM

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-21, 08:39 PM

We could put tighter restrictions on what C10s can do, but allow projects to combine old techs into new ones?...... Maybe? *shrug*

Like... You could C10 metallurgy, then do a great project to get advanced metallurgy and this sounds dumber the more I type it up *sigh* Never mind.

We've had a little of that in the past, for purely fluff-based technology. For example, I've spent projects rigging hovercrafts up with clockwork mechanics to make them more efficient, rigging them up with Ultralight materials to make them a lot lighter, and making ultralight hauberks to wear with Plate Armor. (Fluffwise, Glazfelli plate suits are almost as light as mithril despite being made of steel, and a whole lot cheaper than a suit of mithril plate.)

SamBurke

2015-02-21, 08:44 PM

We've had a little of that in the past, for purely fluff-based technology. For example, I've spent projects rigging hovercrafts up with clockwork mechanics to make them more efficient, rigging them up with Ultralight materials to make them a lot lighter, and making ultralight hauberks to wear with Plate Armor. (Fluffwise, Glazfelli plate suits are almost as light as mithril despite being made of steel, and a whole lot cheaper than a suit of mithril plate.)

Huh. If I do another war writeup I'll include that info.

I like the idea of gradually fluffing out your region with various projects, personally.

zabbarot

2015-02-21, 11:12 PM

I like this idea. Would allow for research agreements; Efficient Building would not qualify, and I'd personally think it has to be a 5 round great project. The only question is: If you get people working together on the project, would both leaders get a C10 refresh, or only one? I'd recommend only one - the one who started the project - but that everyone who helped research would get the tech that is developed as a non-action when the 'refreshed' C10 is used the following turn.

Ie:

Round 1
Player A starts a Research Project (1/5)
Player B helps Player A for a Research Project (2/5)

Round 2
Player A continues a Research Project (3/5)
Player B helps Player A continue a Research Project (4/5)
Player C adds that last bit of Research Data (5/5)

Round 3
Player A uses a "Research C10" action to create the new [Tech] Blueberry Muffins
Non-Action: Player B and Player C acquire Blueberry Muffins as part of their Research Agreement with Player A.

...just something to think about.

This is pretty much exactly how I was imagining it. It speeds up techs for everyone without effecting the ... outliers :smalltongue: Yeah I know that's just the one federation.

Kitsanth

2015-02-22, 12:20 AM

What I always assume is that tech progresses outside of the major developments

for example using my favourite tech;

'Clockwork' as I invented it was the concepts of clockwork. It was not pocket watches, music boxes, velosipeds, basic sewing machines and rudimentary type-writers. Such things have been mentioned as innovations over the last 19 rounds or so. Music boxes appeared in one of the round openers; velosipeds, sewing machines and type-writers during that tech fair hosted by Guilder several rounds ago and pocket watches were most recently mentioned during the latest Games.

QuintonBeck

2015-02-22, 08:49 AM

~Round close is 40 minutes~

QuintonBeck

2015-02-22, 03:15 PM

~Round 36 is Open~

moossabi

2015-02-22, 05:18 PM

~Round 36 is Open~

Cool! I'm gonna go in and see what's going on!

*reads round opener*

...

Sam? What the heck? :smallconfused::smallmad:

EDIT: Also, I invaded the Skygoats.

QuintonBeck

2015-02-22, 07:23 PM

EDIT: Also, I invaded the Skygoats.

Added. (Also, write up your regions!)

Also updated the map and discovery for the round.

moossabi

2015-02-22, 07:50 PM

Added. (Also, write up your regions!)

Also updated the map and discovery for the round.

I probably should get around to it...

moossabi

2015-02-22, 09:26 PM

...And here's one of them.

Whiskolorus
Region 164
Population: 503,000

The Three Cities are, as you could easily guess, a bunch of cities that are the center of the region's population. Sure, there are some outlying villages and such, but the majority of things happen in these three. There's Drunkton, Taston, and Alchoholton. Each city is in constant competition to create the best whiskey, however they are all too stuborn to compare notes and create a collaborative mega-whiskey. Think Mr. Krabs vs. Plankton, just not causing me to have to smack myself for mentioning that horrible show.

The Great Ice Valley is a massive glacial valley that has a 10 yard thick layer of ice covering the walls, and many perfectly preserved fossils, skeletons, and other artifacts from what must be a pre-cataclysm era. And before you ask, no, this is not for sale.

The Place of Great EVIL is exactly what its name says it is: a place of great evil. Nobody knows what it is, and the few explorers and adventurers that try to locate it are never heard from again. There has been much speculation as to what this place really is, but if you want to see the list, Guilder must surrender region 160 to me. Mwahahahaha!

Dwarves. Many many many dwarves. Who else would have such a fixation on whiskey? Most of these dwarves have red hair, large beards, and at least one bottle of whiskey on hand at once. There is very little differentiation between genders, with the only major differences being thickness of beard, and other... anatomical differences. The genders have equal roles and opportunities in society, which include farming, making whiskey, and consuming whiskey. A very large picture is in the spoiler below.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/234/c/b/party_dwarf_by_capprotti-d47g5pt.jpg

To Those who wish to Trade with our Great Nation.

Resources from Whiskolorus:

Whiskey: At great pains, our troops have managed to have the resident dwarves set a large amount of their toxins aside, as we are told that many find this disgusting poison delicious. This stuff is on discount, there are many Ash-Elves that would feel safer with none of this 'beverage' around.

Stuff that we want:

Meat: Because the dwarfs of this region only consume whiskey and some grain, there is a necessity to import meat in order to keep the sicknesses down. Believe us, it's for their own good.

SEND ORDERS TO ONE OF OUR BORDER POSTS. ENTERING THE NATION WITHOUT PERMISSION IS A DECLARATION OF WAR.

"And lo, the great whiskey barrel in the sky shall call thy name, and you shall ascend to drink endless whiskey with thine forefathers! But be wary as you drink, for if the barrel runs dry, then it shall fall from the sky to end this world and create one anew! These are the words of the great Whiskeynian, lord of all drink!"

There. One down, one (certainty) and two (barring intervention) writeups to go... :smalleek:

QuintonBeck

2015-02-22, 09:40 PM

I worry for your whiskey consumption history that you think whiskey is foamy, much less that that's a desirable trait in whiskey :smalltongue:

moossabi

2015-02-22, 09:50 PM

I worry for your whiskey consumption history that you think whiskey is foamy, much less that that's a desirable trait in whiskey :smalltongue:

I pride myself on not having had a single bit of alcohol except a small taste test to see what it was like and a side incident when what I thought to be a glass of milk turned out to be some form of alcohol. I was operating under the assumption that whiskey=beer. :smalltongue:

QuintonBeck

2015-02-22, 09:54 PM

I pride myself on not having had a single bit of alcohol except a small taste test to see what it was like and a side incident when what I thought to be a glass of milk turned out to be some form of alcohol. I was operating under the assumption that whiskey=beer. :smalltongue:

If only there were some sort of engine. For searching. And if it could search a worldwide information network. What a world that would be. :smalltongue:

HalfTangible

2015-02-22, 10:00 PM

moossabi

2015-02-22, 10:38 PM

If only there were some sort of engine. For searching. And if it could search a worldwide information network. What a world that would be. :smalltongue:

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky#Flavours_from_distillation) is not telling me what I need to know.

*facepalm*

At which part? The lack of alcohol consumption or the lack of knowledge of properties of whiskey?

HalfTangible

2015-02-22, 10:42 PM

At which part? The lack of alcohol consumption or the lack of knowledge of properties of whiskey?

Whiskey. :smalltongue:

Aedilred

2015-02-22, 11:18 PM

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky#Flavours_from_distillation) is not telling me what I need to know.

Well even the most cursory research should have been enough to demonstrate that whisky isn't beer... The pictures on that page alone should be enough to show you some of the differences.

In other respects, whisky is a lot stronger than beer: most beer is between 3-7% alcohol, whereas whisky tends to be around 40%. Consequently it's drunk in much smaller quantities.

moossabi

2015-02-22, 11:26 PM

Well even the most cursory research should have been enough to demonstrate that whisky isn't beer... The pictures on that page alone should be enough to show you some of the differences.

In other respects, whisky is a lot stronger than beer: most beer is between 3-7% alcohol, whereas whisky tends to be around 40%. Consequently it's drunk in much smaller quantities.

I only did the research after I was notified by Quinton. I'll edit my post so that the problem is gone.

There. Now with an added Spongebob (oh great, I'll have to smack myself twice now) comparison.

EDIT: Aed? are you seriously committing a declaration of war against me? :smalleek::smallannoyed::smallconfused:

RandoMan

2015-02-23, 12:40 AM

EDIT: Aed? are you seriously committing a declaration of war against me? :smalleek::smallannoyed::smallconfused:

Where is this?

moossabi

2015-02-23, 12:42 AM

He's spreading religion in my lands. That's illegal.

Belief in some higher power is for the weak, who wish to avoid their inevitable doom by trying to gain sway with some ludicrous "Higher Power." Any attempt at corrupting the mind of any Valasharan citizen will be taken as a declaration of war and the perpetrators shall be sentenced to death. (Atheist Extremists)

RandoMan

2015-02-23, 12:49 AM

He's spreading religion in my lands. That's illegal.

The Imperial religion has the full support of the Kingdom of Mularuhm.

moossabi

2015-02-23, 12:59 AM

The Imperial religion has the full support of the Kingdom of Mularuhm.

Irrelevant.

RandoMan

2015-02-23, 01:00 AM

Irrelevant.

Not if you attack Mularuhm's oldest standing ally over the backwards laws of your people.

EDIT: Especially in a region populated by Dwarves in an area wherein the majority/all of the other Dwarven populace follows the Crown of Mularuhm.

DOUBLE EDIT: And the region in question isn't Valasharix, it's a land of Dwarves who enjoy their whiskey. My kind of Dwarves.

moossabi

2015-02-23, 01:03 AM

Not if you attack Mularuhm's oldest standing ally over the backwards laws of your people.

EDIT: Especially in a region populated by Dwarves in a region wherein the majority of the Dwarven populace follows the Crown of Mularuhm.

They're citizens and have the right to worship alcohol!

I think I just died a little while typing that...

Also, how are my laws backwards? :smallconfused:

RandoMan

2015-02-23, 01:11 AM

They're citizens and have the right to worship alcohol!

I think I just died a little while typing that...

Also, how are my laws backwards? :smallconfused:

Flat out refusal to allow any proselytizing is the sign of an oppressive and weak government that doesn't believe it can balance its secular authority with or against a religious authority. It also speaks to one's diplomatic acumen that a minor bout of proselytizing is an act of war. If you had a state approved religion you could counter with your own conversions but your people lack culture in that regard.

I'm only taking an especial interest beyond that of seeing another one of my fellow vassals being threated with war because this region in particular has Dwarves and I have southern Dwarves on lock. Any attempts to prevent them from making the choices they wish to make, especially when that choice coincides with bringing them closer culturally to their cousins under my dominion, is a curbing of their rights as Dwarves and an insult to the Crown that claims to be King of the Southern Dwarves.

Elemental

2015-02-23, 01:11 AM

Also, how are my laws backwards? :smallconfused:

It's not backwards at all. Ashenia has a similar law regarding foreign missionaries. It's not as extreme as that, but it's there.

Edit: Remember, this game is ostensibly set in a late Medieval early Renaissance time period so laws regarding religion are not out of the question.

TheDarkDM

2015-02-23, 01:20 AM

moossabi

2015-02-23, 01:29 AM

Flat out refusal to allow any proselytizing is the sign of an oppressive and weak government that doesn't believe it can balance its secular authority with or against a religious authority. It also speaks to one's diplomatic acumen that a minor bout of proselytizing is an act of war. If you had a state approved religion you could counter with your own conversions but your people lack culture in that regard.

It's not oppressive or weak, it's an attempt to keep people away from this corruption. In fact, Aed's the one who's attempting to remove them from their chosen faith, therefore being more oppressive.

I'm only taking an especial interest beyond that of seeing another one of my fellow vassals being threated with war because this region in particular has Dwarves and I have southern Dwarves on lock. Any attempts to prevent them from making the choices they wish to make, especially when that choice coincides with bringing them closer culturally to their cousins under my dominion, is a curbing of their rights as Dwarves and an insult to the Crown that claims to be King of the Southern Dwarves.

You misspelled threatened. Your argument is now invalid. (:smalltongue:)

Also, rather than going out of his way to piss me off, he could easily spread it to the, oh, I don't know, about 5 other regions around me, 2 of which are also vassals to the Salterri Imperium. It makes a whole lot more sense.

Aedilred

2015-02-23, 02:48 AM

It was a clerical error (or perhaps a Freudian slip?): it was supposed to be 165.

Edit:

That said, and while Elemental's point is well taken, I'm not attempting to "force" my religion on anyone, nor am I in a position to "oppress" any of the people of any of those regions. There is a wide gulf between the bare act of sending missionaries to attempt to convert people and forcing conversion (or indeed non-conversion) on pain of death. I wouldn't be attempting to remove anybody from their chosen faith, rather I'd be attempting to persuade them to choose a different one.

If anything it is Valasharix that is acting in an oppressive fashion by denying its people the right even to hear alternative viewpoints about spirituality, especially since - as has previously been mentioned in a previous iteration of this thread - on Telluris their aggressive atheism is fundamentally pretty irrational given the proven existence of supernatural entities, certainly moreso than any of the established religions are.

zabbarot

2015-02-23, 07:13 AM

lt_murgen

2015-02-23, 07:25 AM

So you wont have a problem with Radurjic missionaries then? Or is it on oppression when Panshen isn't allowed?

He does have a point. The Grand Charter ("http://gitp-empire.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Charter_of_the_Salterri_Imperium') does exclude missionaries from other religions without consent of the Senate. Of course, no one has yet even attempted to petition the Senate for such rights.

Aedilred

2015-02-23, 07:41 AM

So you wont have a problem with Radurjic missionaries then? Or is it on oppression when Panshen isn't allowed?

I wasn't saying I'm about to open my doors to all and sundry, just pointing out why moos's polemic was wide of the mark :smalltongue: I've never made any pretence that while my people are able to choose their own faith, that choice is from a fairly restricted menu. Or at least I haven't since the Ascension fiasco and the clamping down on foreign missionaries that followed.

But even then, if foreign missionaries turned up in the KCS, they wouldn't be executed or have war declared or anything. They'd just be asked to stop it, have their relevant materials confiscated (if that hadn't been handled at the border) and as a last resort if that failed to stop them, deported. Ascension, Jaaku Na and possibly CoK missionaries might be more harshly treated, but that's because spreading those faiths is considered treasonous.

zabbarot

2015-02-23, 07:45 AM

My only point is y'all are coming down pretty hard on moos, when really what he's doing is no different from what you do. He just has a different menu, as you put it.

Aedilred

2015-02-23, 08:27 AM

My only point is y'all are coming down pretty hard on moos, when really what he's doing is no different from what you do. He just has a different menu, as you put it.

Well, it's more like he's denying his people access to a menu, has made food illegal and anyone suggesting that maybe his people should try some food - or any of his people seen eating - are immediately killed, despite people elsewhere having proved the nutritional benefit of food... :smallwink:

But that's not really what's going on anyway. As I say, I was one number out on my original post and it should have been 165, which has since been corrected. Any remaining issues with Valasharix are largely unrelated to religion - although the attitude towards religion certainly doesn't help. As far as the discussion of Valasharix's religious attitude here has gone, I was just responding to moos's perjoratives in calling my actions oppressive, etc. which seemed a bit out of kilter with reality, especially considering Valasharix's own position on things.

moossabi

2015-02-23, 10:43 AM

I was countering Durk's argument. I didn't say that it WAS oppressive, just that it was slightly more opressive than what I'm doing.

And again, wouldn't it be simpler to spread it to 88 or 89 instead of a random icecap?

QuintonBeck

2015-02-23, 12:43 PM

Technology tables have been updated and technological bonuses have been altered slightly as well as giving a new categorization system of "slots" taking the place, more or less, of the duplicate bonuses not stacking in the previous iteration. The latest tables and the altered bonuses can be seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18245951&postcount=6)

Logic

2015-02-23, 01:40 PM

moossabi

2015-02-23, 01:41 PM

Though I have never touched either, I do know the difference between whiskey and beer.

And apparently I do not. :smalltongue:

SamBurke

2015-02-23, 03:41 PM

Cool! I'm gonna go in and see what's going on!

*reads round opener*

...

Sam? What the heck? :smallconfused::smallmad:
Guilder is going to do a little peaceful (if "ensured") diplomacy down there. Expect a PM sometime today, IC/OOC, for both you and Randolf.

Flat out refusal to allow any proselytizing is the sign of an oppressive and weak government that doesn't believe it can balance its secular authority with or against a religious authority. It also speaks to one's diplomatic acumen that a minor bout of proselytizing is an act of war. If you had a state approved religion you could counter with your own conversions but your people lack culture in that regard.

I'm only taking an especial interest beyond that of seeing another one of my fellow vassals being threated with war because this region in particular has Dwarves and I have southern Dwarves on lock. Any attempts to prevent them from making the choices they wish to make, especially when that choice coincides with bringing them closer culturally to their cousins under my dominion, is a curbing of their rights as Dwarves and an insult to the Crown that claims to be King of the Southern Dwarves.
But it's HIS country. Proseltyzing is still against the rules, whether it's a human right or not. Guilder recognizes freedom of (non-violent) religion as a sentient's right, but nevertheless believes that it would be foolish to send people to convert inside a nation that doesn't want it.

But that's not really what's going on anyway. As I say, I was one number out on my original post and it should have been 165, which has since been corrected.Indeed. It's an honest mistake, one that others have made.

Technology tables have been updated and technological bonuses have been altered slightly as well as giving a new categorization system of "slots" taking the place, more or less, of the duplicate bonuses not stacking in the previous iteration. The latest tables and the altered bonuses can be seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18245951&postcount=6)
Well that changes... everything? So much to reorganize. :smalleek:

HalfTangible

2015-02-23, 07:14 PM

Thinking of one-liners to utter before you kill someone's leader probably isn't very healthy when those leaders are your allies and friends >.> No matter how cool those lines are.

moossabi

2015-02-23, 07:16 PM

Thinking of one-liners to utter before you kill someone's leader probably isn't very healthy when those leaders are your allies and friends >.> No matter how cool those lines are.

Where does this happen? :smallconfused:

HalfTangible

2015-02-23, 07:20 PM

Where does this happen? :smallconfused:

Skype, mostly. :smallwink: I've been having lots of conversations on there lately. Mostly individual.

EDIT: to be clear I was the one thinking up such lines.

RandoMan

2015-02-24, 01:41 AM

It's not backwards at all. Ashenia has a similar law regarding foreign missionaries. It's not as extreme as that, but it's there.

Edit: Remember, this game is ostensibly set in a late Medieval early Renaissance time period so laws regarding religion are not out of the question.

But correct me if I'm wrong but Ashenia outlaws religions case by case as it finds them to be offensive and doesn't execute missionaries wholecloth does it? I could allow that might even could be construed as reasonable if there were a state religion opposed to all proselytizing but this is just a bunch of unorganized blokes running around shouting that religion is bad in a world where religion has demonstrably done things.

Either way, it's not even relevant given the cleric error. My only real point was Valasharix ought to be careful with its religious persecution, especially in the land inhabited by Dwarves, notably in persecuting a religion the Kingdom of Mularuhm follows being propagated by Mularuhm's oldest ally.

TheDarkDM

2015-02-24, 01:56 AM

The thread for the Peace Gala is live! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400450-The-Tellurian-Peace-Gala&p=18868252#post18868252)

Elemental

2015-02-24, 03:32 AM

But correct me if I'm wrong but Ashenia outlaws religions case by case as it finds them to be offensive and doesn't execute missionaries wholecloth does it? I could allow that might even could be construed as reasonable if there were a state religion opposed to all proselytizing but this is just a bunch of unorganized blokes running around shouting that religion is bad in a world where religion has demonstrably done things.

Either way, it's not even relevant given the cleric error. My only real point was Valasharix ought to be careful with its religious persecution, especially in the land inhabited by Dwarves, notably in persecuting a religion the Kingdom of Mularuhm follows being propagated by Mularuhm's oldest ally.

While the individual missionaries may not be executed, it is important to note that the government responsible would not be considered favourably after such an act. In any case, Valasharix is allowed to act as they deem fit. They consider religion a subversive influence so have enacted measured to prevent its spread.

In addition, I'm not so sure your policy of considering all Dwarves in the Southern Hemisphere your rightful subjects is advisable. There is, after all, no guarantee that they will be appreciative of Mularuhm's leadership or its religion. After all, the Dwarves of Whiskolorus may not take kindly to a Fire God given how flammable whisky is.
And when you compare Valasharix to the states to the North of it that like to conquer their neighbours, they seem a lot more reasonable...

Edit: By which I mean, the Saroc are warmongering barbarians and Tzalteclan is clearly evil in comparison to most other states. The Valasharix are just a little crazy.

TheDarkDM

2015-02-24, 03:50 AM

Edit: By which I mean, the Saroc are warmongering barbarians and Tzalteclan is clearly evil in comparison to most other states. The Valasharix are just a little crazy.

Hey, I take offense at that! The Saroc are not barbarians!

Elemental

2015-02-24, 04:04 AM

Hey, I take offense at that! The Saroc are not barbarians!

Well... Definition 4a on Dictionary.com states that a barbarian is a non-Greek, and I don't think anyone's claiming the Saroc are Greek. But you're right, the term barbarian is difficult to apply as it makes assumption regarding the superiority of certain cultures.
Can we call them savages though? As near as I can tell they are a fierce and cruel people so it kind of fits.

moossabi

2015-02-24, 10:49 AM

Hey, I take offense at that! The Saroc are not barbarians!

They are barbarians with a GK! :smalltongue:

HalfTangible

2015-02-24, 10:53 AM

They are barbarians with a GK! :smalltongue:

That would still be barbarians :smallwink::smalltongue:

SamBurke

2015-02-24, 01:50 PM

The thread for the Peace Gala is live! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400450-The-Tellurian-Peace-Gala&p=18868252#post18868252)
Guilder will... respond. :smalltongue:

Hey, I take offense at that! The Saroc are not barbarians!
They are.

Well... Definition 4a on Dictionary.com states that a barbarian is a non-Greek, and I don't think anyone's claiming the Saroc are Greek. But you're right, the term barbarian is difficult to apply as it makes assumption regarding the superiority of certain cultures.
Can we call them savages though? As near as I can tell they are a fierce and cruel people so it kind of fits.
They are.

zabbarot

2015-02-24, 03:30 PM

Well... Definition 4a on Dictionary.com states that a barbarian is a non-Greek, and I don't think anyone's claiming the Saroc are Greek. But you're right, the term barbarian is difficult to apply as it makes assumption regarding the superiority of certain cultures.
Can we call them savages though? As near as I can tell they are a fierce and cruel people so it kind of fits.

Referencing the Greek origin of the word, I remember hearing that it was basically the Greeks saying that all non-Greeks just sounded like bar bar bar. So basically barbarian is "those people who speak gibberish" which still kinda fits the Saroc :smalltongue:

HalfTangible

2015-02-24, 03:34 PM

The only evidence presented is the word of a Cree she will not name and might as well be fictional, and the recollections of a man whose sanity they themselves denounce."

Aedil, the letter came with the exact methods and chemical formulas used on Wesley. Which I DO have, for the record. :smallwink::smalltongue: Secret actions ho!

moossabi

2015-02-25, 01:18 AM

Meh, I'm still going.

HalfTangible

2015-02-25, 01:52 AM

Meh, I'm still going.

Have fun at Tzalteclan's perfectly innocent peace gala. I'm sure nothing sinister will happen whatsoever :smallwink::smalltongue:

lt_murgen

2015-02-25, 07:45 AM

Aedil, the letter came with the exact methods and chemical formulas used on Wesley. Which I DO have, for the record. :smallwink::smalltongue: Secret actions ho!

One should be pardoned for not believing in 'evidence' produced in secret actions. After all, secret methods can hardly be viewed objectively. Or was your letter to be viewed as sharing that secret technology? :smallbiggrin:

TheWombatOfDoom

2015-02-25, 08:20 AM

"I'm a Doctor. On a BaleHorse I ride, I'm wanted...dead or alive."

-Stuyvesant

Elemental

2015-02-25, 08:37 AM

I honestly have no idea whether I should attend the Tzaltec Peace Gala. The Queen of Ashenia has a very good chance of calling them inept and insecure with ruling over subject peoples and would probably get herself killed. And while I might enjoy the opportunity to raise armies against Tzalteclan I don't want to as I rather suspect international support would be limited.
On the other hand, Ashenia has heard all manner of bad things about Tzalteclan so it would probably be advisable to go over and check that out to make sure.

Decisions decisions...

Morph Bark

2015-02-25, 10:06 AM

Send someone other than the Queen? Best of both worlds. Events are a perfect place to develop your heir or other major future characters.

zabbarot

2015-02-25, 10:12 AM

"I'm a Doctor. On a BaleHorse I ride, I'm wanted...dead or alive."

-Stuyvesant

10/10 - best post. :smallbiggrin: Seriously, that song is awesome

WaylanderX

2015-02-25, 10:19 AM

Send someone other than the Queen? Best of both worlds. Events are a perfect place to develop your heir or other major future characters.

Or get them killed of ahead of their time.

Gengy

2015-02-25, 10:54 AM

I for one find these allegations against Tzaltec very curious! The Makgrull have Whales, which are admittedly intelligent, but they are certainly not citizens of Praeclarus. In most cases, the Squid of Praeclarus are treated with more respect, as even though they too are *food* to some degree, they are more like pets. Whales are getting to pets, but aren't there yet. So the Makgrull are wondering what these 'slaves' are, and why the surface people find them so distasteful. The Peace Gala is a fantastic way for the Chief Orator to look at Tzaltec lands and traditions without being disrespectful.

...out of character, though, I totally agree that slavery is bad, k? So is mind-breaking torture. Bad idea.

HalfTangible

2015-02-25, 11:12 AM

One should be pardoned for not believing in 'evidence' produced in secret actions. After all, secret methods can hardly be viewed objectively. Or was your letter to be viewed as sharing that secret technology? :smallbiggrin:

Enclosed were diagrams, charts and alchemical formulas. Sycia claims that they were acquired from a Cree informant, and are what the Tzalteclan sent them when asked for their brainwashing program. Marvella also says she has the originals.

So... maybe? :smallconfused: Though I should probably spend a Diplo action on that, if that's the case...

SamBurke

2015-02-25, 11:49 AM

One should be pardoned for not believing in 'evidence' produced in secret actions. After all, secret methods can hardly be viewed objectively. Or was your letter to be viewed as sharing that secret technology? :smallbiggrin:

Well, we could always ask the Cree or someone else to do a public investigation. :smalltongue: It wouldn't change what's found.

lt_murgen

2015-02-25, 12:34 PM

Well, we could always ask the Cree or someone else to do a public investigation. :smalltongue: It wouldn't change what's found.

I think we need a global investigation to see how the Cree poisoned everyone into believing they are always telling the truth. :smallbiggrin:

DoomHat

2015-02-25, 12:48 PM

I think we need a global investigation to see how the Cree poisoned everyone into believing they are always telling the truth. :smallbiggrin:

Perhaps its the fact that honesty is their one redeeming virtue in most cases. Their modern culture is built around regret from the failures of Umajin's Trickery. The only time they bend the truth they do it with overwhelming sarcasm.

The Cree have made no secret of committing acts of terror when they do them, only laying out their justifications. They openly admitted to their mistake in creating Stuyvesant, and are, in fact, the only nation sufficiently obsessed with Justice to begin proactively hunting down the world's boogeymen.

That might be how and why.:smallwink:

Edit:

"I'm a Doctor. On a BaleHorse I ride, I'm wanted...dead or alive."

-Stuyvesant

snrk

HalfTangible

2015-02-25, 08:32 PM

Okay, spent the diplo action. Not entirely sure it's necessary and it messes up my stat growth for this round a bit, but there ya go.

Elemental

2015-02-26, 12:31 AM

Send someone other than the Queen? Best of both worlds. Events are a perfect place to develop your heir or other major future characters.

That may be so, but given that my ruler has only the one child...

That might be how and why.:smallwink:

Ashenia mostly trusts them because they've been allies for a very long time. Like, a VERY long time.

Kasanip

2015-02-26, 03:46 AM

Does [refusal] of Trade Post require action? It seems similar to trade agreement. It was difficult to understand:

1.) Build Tradepost in Bastet for Glass [Curiosity]
2.) Build Tradepost in Bastet for Textiles [Curiosity]
3.) SECRET Raw:

Actions of Kemuliaan (141) are strange because there is no agreement. Won't such an action become failure?

BladeofObliviom

2015-02-26, 03:52 AM

Does [refusal] of Trade Post require action? It seems similar to trade agreement. It was difficult to understand:

As written, there doesn't appear to be a way to easily refuse (though there's nothing stopping you from burning it down next round with an action if you want).

This is probably something that should be patched up, since I'd imagine that it could be frustratingly abusable.

Aedilred

2015-02-26, 04:01 AM

Does [refusal] of Trade Post require action? It seems similar to trade agreement. It was difficult to understand:

Actions of Kemuliaan (141) are strange because there is no agreement. Won't such an action become failure?

You don't need an agreement to establish a trading post, although most players make one anyway for obvious reasons. I think the fact that they don't require agreement is part of the point in them, since it enables more cut-throat trade practices and also stops people cutting off your trade with a non-action if they decide they don't like you.

The rules don't appear to allow for someone to oppose the construction of a trading-post while it's being built, although maybe they should. If you don't want a Kemuliaan trading post in your land you can attempt to conquer it or buy it out once it's been built (or encourage Alzeroth to do it for you and take over the trading post themselves).

Edit: ninjad.

Kasanip

2015-02-26, 04:18 AM

As written, there doesn't appear to be a way to easily refuse (though there's nothing stopping you from burning it down next round with an action if you want).

This is probably something that should be patched up, since I'd imagine that it could be frustratingly abusable.

You don't need an agreement to establish a trading post, although most players make one anyway for obvious reasons. I think the fact that they don't require agreement is part of the point in them, since it enables more cut-throat trade practices and also stops people cutting off your trade with a non-action if they decide they don't like you.

The rules don't appear to allow for someone to oppose the construction of a trading-post while it's being built, although maybe they should. If you don't want a Kemuliaan trading post in your land you can attempt to conquer it or buy it out once it's been built (or encourage Alzeroth to do it for you and take over the trading post themselves).

Thank you for explaining.
It's a frustrating situation.

lt_murgen

2015-02-26, 07:51 AM

Thank you for explaining.
It's a frustrating situation.

It is supposed to be. It is another way to oppose another nation without outright warfare.

Aedilred

2015-02-26, 01:24 PM

Trades for Round 35

Sorry for the delay on these. As usual, please check for omissions/errors, especially where overtrades and the like are concerned as I may have missed a prior cancellation or Cur5 action.

Trades
Thumping Plains [100] Bison to Tzalteclan [86] for Timber to West Kap [107]
Amocuallan [85] Ngath Philungf to Glazfell [59] for Tears of Yphine to Maztpoala [84]
Sycia [50] Grain for Penoccident [38] Cliffhorn Goats
Propinlonge [39] Pigs to Felitora [51] for Furs to Conjelado Anillo
Trandar [145] Grains for Bastet [142] Textiles
Yorukuni [17B] Kinu Kuroth to the Sea of Glass [130] for Galomyr Bananas
Yorukuni [17B] Ketsuek Crystal for Heartwaste [5B] Stone
Guilder [14A] Inventors to Drugaud [52] for Estglaz Cavorite
Maos [54] Dinosaurs for Esuma [162] Garb
Guilder [14A] Inventors for Rathenal [161] Orichalcum
Maos [54] Tar for Rathenal [161]Geras Fuit
Maos [54] Tar for Hrathan-Tuor [10] Hai Vyuma
Maos [54] Athletes for Qarimos [12] Mahaki Jana
Tuhiland [126] Coal for Rathenal [161] Wood to Trinacria [125]
Galomyr [90] Sages for Drugaud [52] Scientists
Galomyr [90] Bananas for Kapital [105] Camels
Galomyr [90] Aloe Vera for Darsia [156] Navigators to Galomyr [90]
Woodwind [6] Dire Boar for Clanships [83] Shaping Wood
West Kap [107] Stone for Clanships [83] Black Cake
Keystone [103] Iron for Clanships [83] Black Cake
Kapital [105] Oranges for Thumping Plains [100] Bison
Kapital [105] Heart Ruby for Keystone [103] Stained Glass
Clanships [83] Shaping Wood for Maos [54] Dinosaurs
Niemidaland [88] Wood for Mularuhm [64B] Mithril
Niemidaland [88] Fish for Salteire [35] Silver
Meimanda [89] Lightbringers for Aus-Teire [36] Crops
Darsia [156] Sleet Mice for Pontensulae Everlava to Darsia
Esuma [162] Dream Sugar for Rathenal [161] Geras Fruit
Esuma [162] Carnival Troupes for Triumph [61B] Netherine
Esuma [162] Visionaries for Rathenal [162] Orichalcum
Esuma [162] Visionaries for Pontensulae [37] Everlava
Esuma [162] Visionaries for Borlmyn [60] Goldfire
Dong Nam Dosi [136] Aimoh for Estglaz [58] Silver
Bracia [33] Hops for Dong Bu Dosi [135] Nightcrackle Lichen
Bor-Teire [34] Ale for Rí Chugang [133] Shedding Trees
Sahra'a [55] Lacertal Lizards for Propinlonge [39] Platinum

Gifts
Axiquahitl [102] Wood to Oztotla [104]
Tzalteclan [86] Iron to Axiquahitl [102]
Oztotla [104] Stone to Amocuallan [85]
Felitora [51] Crystal to Esuma [162]
Galie-Noiret [16B] Sulphur to Razdis [13B]
Galie-Noiret [16B] Nitrates to Razdis [13B]
Eyrecradia [5B] Moss to Razdis [13B]
Tekoshkiya [111] Wood to Cantroth [113]
Cantroth [113] Sheep to Tekoshkiya [111]
Cantroth [113] Platinum to Tekoshkiya [111]
Cantroth [113] Tar to Tekoshkiya [111]
Kseverumestia [110] Geese to Maur [73]
Niskovia [47A] Engineers to Maur [73]
Kaspiyskiya [74] Dragon Flowers to Maur [73]
Valeriya [77] Rock Juice to Maur [73]
Tekoshkiya [111] Wood to Maur [73]
Maur [73] Steel to Niskovia [47A]
Maur [73] Maur's Skin to Niskovia [47A]
Corraich Geotropic Teratons to Maos [54]
Rannara [53] True Ice to Esuma [162]
Rannara [53] True Ice to Maos [54]
Guilder [13A] Lumber to Rannara [53]
Guilder [13A] Crops to Palas Caercia [67]
Bor-Teire [34A] Ale to Jarrland [62A]
Salteire [35] Salt to Bracia [33A]
Celero [2A] Wood to Bereginia [2B]
Celero [2A] Wood to Propinlonge [39]

[U]Curiosity 5 Actions
Rit Phal in Ayava [11B]
Alzerite Firesteel in Alzeroth [138]
Kemuliaan – Rubies upgraded to Great
Rathenal – Geras Fruit upgraded to Great

Trading Posts
Kemuliaan in Pomequia [140] – Apples
Salterri Heartlands in 160 – Whispered Darkness
Salterri Heartlands in 160 – Malhanan Brew
Salterri Heartlands in Grmanhil [31] -
Kingdom of Serendel in Rannara – True Ice

Redirected Trades
Jarrland Timber from Aus-Teire to Bor-Teire
Cave Cats from Aus-Teire to Pontensulae
Geese from Aus-Teire to Pontensulae

Cancellations
Tzalteclan Slaves to Sympolemou
(Sycia trades to the Tzaltec Empire)
K'braashriix Dragon Scales to Pavonia
Eyrecradia Opals to Valterre
Yorukuni Kinu Kuroth for Heartwaste Stone
Guilder Crops to Rannara
Maos Dinosaurs to Guilder
Maos Dinosaurs to Lyradis
Rannara Nitrates to Riderock
Maos Athletes to Raaneka
Salteire Silver to Aus-Teire and Minotron
Salteire Gold to Tzalteclan
Bracia Hops to Salteire, Rí Chugang and Palas Caercia
Bor-Teire Drum Lizards to Salteire
Shengdi Goats to Nan Hai Nian
Tzalteclan Slaves to Glazfell
Glazfell Gold to Razdis
Drugaud Scientists to Estglaz

Unconfirmed and Invalid Trades
Requiem Horses for Tuvaak Landstriders (unconfirmed by Tuvaak)
Galomyr [90] Sages for Ayava [11B] Scholars (overtraded Scholars)
Niemidaland [88] Spices for Mularuhm [64B] Gold (overtraded Gold)
Niemidaland [88] Spices for Asterith [62B] Sulphur (overtraded Sulphur)
Mapuílli [157] Ice Totems for Salteire [35] Salt/Silver (ambiguous)
Kanyat [143] Stone for Dong Nam Dosi [136] Wood (pending GM confirmation)
Trading Post: Salterri Heartlands in Selyra – Abyssium (trading post already exists)

RandoMan

2015-02-27, 03:34 AM

Aedilred Do you know where all my Gold is going? I only have record of Palas Caercia Potatoes and Abyssian Sea Nix Coral being traded for Mularuhm's gold.

Aedilred

2015-02-27, 04:08 AM

Aedilred Do you know where all my Gold is going? I only have record of Palas Caercia Potatoes and Abyssian Sea Nix Coral being traded for Mularuhm's gold.

Galardoth, Riderock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18240182&postcount=719) and Palas Caercia, in exchange for Deeprock, Oozes and Potatoes respectively. There was also a trading post for it owned by Pavonia, although that dissolves this round as Pavonia no longer shares a border (as do the Mularuhm ones in Norogh, since that's now part of Mularuhm).

HalfTangible

2015-02-27, 11:26 AM

I hate to say I told ya so, Mossabi :smalltongue::smallwink:

moossabi

2015-02-27, 11:30 AM

I hate to say I told ya so, Mossabi :smalltongue::smallwink:

However, it's the Cree who are in fault here, not Tzalteclan. Depending on who pisses me off the most this will be fun. :smallwink::smallamused:

HalfTangible

2015-02-27, 11:46 AM

However, it's the Cree who are in fault here, not Tzalteclan. Depending on who pisses me off the most this will be fun. :smallwink::smallamused:

Yeah, but they're there as a security force, and using a guest list that Tzalteclan provided them with. Which means that they ordered your arrest.

lt_murgen

2015-02-27, 12:24 PM

Yeah, but they're there as a security force, and using a guest list that Tzalteclan provided them with. Which means that they ordered your arrest.

By the way, does anyone know how the cree are making it dark?

HalfTangible

2015-02-27, 12:27 PM

By the way, does anyone know how the cree are making it dark?

They said they were using tarp to block out the sun.

moossabi

2015-02-27, 12:42 PM

They said they were using tarp to block out the sun.

Yeah, that was the weakest excuse ever. I'll be sitting around waiting for some other stuff to happen. I am, indeed, providing a very good offer. It'd be a shame if we deemed fit to revoke it...

Aedilred

2015-02-27, 12:57 PM

A robot hellbent on ruining my sleep. Why do you ask?

A couple of people (Morph included) make two posts in the IC thread, one for fluff and one for actions, so they can edit the fluff post later in the round without running the risk of accidentally going over the round close and invalidating their actions.

Speaking only for myself (but from experience of doing the round opening) it would be nice if the IC thread was kept relatively free of conversation and other clutter, so I would suggest if folk wish to comment on something someone else has said/done there they do so here instead. Unless you're responding IC, although in that case it's still probably better to edit it into existing posts or collate them centrally rather than have too much back-and-forth.

moossabi

2015-02-27, 12:59 PM

A couple of people (Morph included) make two posts in the IC thread, one for fluff and one for actions, so they can edit the fluff post later in the round without running the risk of accidentally going over the round close and invalidating their actions.

Speaking only for myself (but from experience of doing the round opening) it would be nice if the IC thread was kept relatively free of conversation and other clutter, so I would suggest if folk wish to comment on something someone else has said/done there they do so here instead. Unless you're responding IC, although in that case it's still probably better to edit it into existing posts or collate them centrally rather than have too much back-and-forth.

OK. It was deleted. I couldn't help it... :smalltongue:

DoomHat

2015-02-27, 01:14 PM

Yeah, that was the weakest excuse ever. I'll be sitting around waiting for some other stuff to happen. I am, indeed, providing a very good offer. It'd be a shame if we deemed fit to revoke it...

I'd assumed it was well into evening at that point in my first post, or at least that it had drifted into evening while the Inquisition was steering your diplomats around in circles. Thus, in the grand tradition of improve, you introduced that it was still bright day, so I rolled with it. It's actually not an unheard of thing in hot regions. It really is amazing what a lightly colored or white canopy can do to cool off a place.

I'm sorry if you took anything that's happening IC personally, but I really am there as an independent body seeing to the safety of the guests, and I am acting more or less as per instruction. I don't know what you were expecting to happen if your people got caught.

moossabi

2015-02-27, 01:17 PM

I'd assumed it was well into evening at that point in my first post, or at least that it had drifted into evening while the Inquisition was steering your diplomats around in circles. Thus, in the grand tradition of improve, you introduced that it was still bright day, so I rolled with it. It's actually not an unheard of thing in hot regions. It really is amazing what a lightly colored or white canopy can do to cool off a place.

I'm sorry if you took anything that's happening IC personally, but I really am there as an independent body seeing to the safety of the guests, and I am acting more or less as per instruction. I don't know what you were expecting to happen if your people got caught.

No OOC ill will. I came there for a reason, and I'll only be upset if that reason is not addressed at all. I feel that there is no need for a post on my behalf, so I'll just wait.

DoomHat

2015-02-28, 03:44 AM

Hey everybody!
I'm planning to decide my next ruler randomly, or at least semi-randomly from a stable or characters of your collective making!

Please Post your version of the potential next Tyrant of the Cree HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?401150-EMPIRE!-Tyranny-of-New-Crima-Game-of-Death-patients-year-511cc&p=18888784#post18888784)

In the end, there'll be a 2d6 roll off to decide who wins. Various nations are free (OOC encouraged) to try rigging the games in favor of one contestant over the others!

Please contribute!

Gengy

2015-02-28, 10:18 AM

APPRENTICE JUCHIN FTW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?401150-EMPIRE!-Tyranny-of-New-Crima-Game-of-Death-patients-year-511cc&p=18888784#post18888784) :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, I was hoping to make him a reality. And now I have. Though... in the interest of DoomHat, I did try to make him somewhat serious. I just wish I had the actions to spare :?/

Soooo... why is Khoonbish being voted to be killed?

Morph Bark

2015-02-28, 11:20 AM

Doom, I'd like to direct you to the Changing Rulers subsection of the Starting: Creating Your First Ruler:

If the new ruler is not a child of a previous ruler, they only get a +1 to two attribute scores (chosen freely), but may arrange the rolled scores freely, as with the first ruler of a new player.

The scores for any successors of Khoonbish would therefore be rolled for prior to assigning rolls to scores, and the two +1s would also be freely assigned.

DoomHat

2015-02-28, 11:40 AM

Morph Bark

2015-02-28, 11:43 AM

A regent is essentially a temporary ruler for when the legitimate ruler cannot (yet) rule. All in all, regents should come up very little, especially if you use a non-monarchical government system or similar. Whether a ruler counts as a regent or not is very much left up to the players, but the heredity bonuses are mechanics that are tied to fluff.

In case of a coup, I'd figure that'd mean that the new head of state is effectively the new "legitimate" head--further below in that sub-section it even talks about how a regent can commit a coup to become the legitimate head of state.

DoomHat

2015-02-28, 11:56 AM

The way the current rules are written, my complicated system designed to weed out all but the best and "Most Cree" amounts to a recurring succession of Regents and Usurpers. It's also worth noting that unlike a democracy, Tyrant is a lifetime appointment.

Hell, I made a roll to determine if Khoonbish would live or die, one that she statistically really, really, should have passed much to my frustration.
As a non-GK, I can't begin to express how frustrating this is.

I mean, I've put out a couple times in at least a couple threads that the Games are designed to find someone as much like Oluska as possible, could I please at least keep using her succession bonuses? As though stamping all my future rulers chosen through The Games with her template?

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 12:19 PM

I'm very interested in playing, am I still able to join?

DoomHat

2015-02-28, 12:26 PM

I'm very interested in playing, am I still able to join?

Recruitment is always open!
Here's the rules thread to give you an idea of how to get started!
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376064-EMPIRE!-Rules-and-Administration

I'm not sure which regions are still open, but we have a lot of NPC nations you could pick up the reigns of! That's how I got started.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 12:31 PM

Recruitment is always open!
Here's the rules thread to give you an idea of how to get started!
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376064-EMPIRE!-Rules-and-Administration

I'm not sure which regions are still open, but we have a lot of NPC nations you could pick up the reigns of! That's how I got started.

Ok I'm going to have lunch for an hour or two but when I get back I'll get right into making my nation. Spot 146 looks nice. Are all of the people on the spreadsheet still active? (If so that's a very impressive feat!)

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 12:32 PM

I'm very interested in playing, am I still able to join?

Yup.

There are a number of NPCs you could take over if you'd be interested in that, or alternatively you can claim an empty region. Regions currently unoccupied are, to the best of my knowledge:
P6
P7
128
144 and 148 (I think; I've lost track of what's going on in the 140s)
160
165
U6
U15-17 (I think)

I think there are also a couple of underground regions currently unoccupied, most notably 76B and 21B (although 21B is historically bad news).

METAL (four regions, orcs)
Ahmeskharras [formerly known as the Clanships] (one region, a splinter from METAL)
Razdis (two regions, dwarves)
The Sulvan Primarchy (one region, dwarves, vassal to Ashenia)
The Kingdom of the Isles (four island regions, spriggans and snow trolls, vassal to the Kingdom of the Carmine Sea/Salterri Imperium)
Niemida Prefecture (two regions, humans, vassal to the Salterri Imperium)
Nanguang Prefecture (two regions, vassal to the Salterri Imperium)
Propinlonge Prefecture (one region, vassal to the Seaborne Confederation)
Alydaxis (four regions, mostly lizardfolk, vassal to the Empire of the Silver Moon)
Glirfrey (one region, lizardfolk, formerly part of Alydaxis, split off for mechanical reasons)
The Kingdom of Stolok/the Planinfrag (one region, humans and orcs, vassal to Glazfell)
The Kingdom of the Iron Doctrine (three regions, Skaven expys, vassal to Glazfell)
Kemuliaan (one region, undead mummy-king, independent)
Abyssian Sea Coalition (two underwater regions, trilobite-people, vassal to Mularuhm/Salterri Imperium)
Alzeroth (one region, humans, vassal to the Hurosha Empire)
Fera (a few regions, vassal to Niskovia)

Edit: I see I've been ninjad by Doom. We have about 25-30 players; I'm not sure of the exact numbers at the moment as we've had a few new arrivals and a couple of departures recently.

Also it seems 146 is now occupied as moos conquered it last round. 144 and 148 are still open though.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 12:44 PM

148 works for me, which thread should I post all my region fluff/dice rolls etc. in?

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 12:51 PM

Dice rolls are in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?388673-EMPIRE!-The-Community-Dice-Rolling-Thread-The-2nd).

With the initial writeup, best thing to do is probably to post it here where people will see it and then when Quinton's approved it/you you can move it to the Lands of Telluris (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?351078-Empire!-The-Lands-of-Telluris-%28the-fluff-beyond-the-crunch%29&p=17603862#post17603862) thread. There's a template somewhere for regions which you don't have to use but most people do: I'm not sure exactly where it is but since most region posts follow it or something similar it should be fairly easy to work out.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 01:00 PM

Having trouble finding kingdoms near 148, any knowledge on what kinds of people inhabit the bordering regions?

moossabi

2015-02-28, 01:04 PM

Having trouble finding kingdoms near 148, any knowledge on what kinds of people inhabit the bordering regions?
...

:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

*sigh*

Please ask Quinton for unexplored regions. I've had enough of my actions being wasted.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 01:06 PM

...

:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

*sigh*

Please ask Quinton for unexplored regions. I've had enough of my actions being wasted.

My apologies

moossabi

2015-02-28, 01:08 PM

My apologies

Sorry, it's just that people keep on creating a region right where I'm expanding, usually after I've used two actions doing so, and it becomes really annoying after a while.

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 01:09 PM

Having trouble finding kingdoms near 148, any knowledge on what kinds of people inhabit the bordering regions?

164, 146 and 163 are part of Valasharix, which is run by moossabi. He's also colonising 165, to the south of 148, so you have a lot of borders with him. Further to the east are territories of Celero, which is Logic's kingdom. Celero is also part of the Salterri Imperium (a large empire including Morph, me, DurkBlanston, RandoMan, Logic, lt_murgen and a couple of NPCs). To the north in 143 and that area is the Chivalric Republic of United Free Cities, owned by Kasanip. 145 is Trandar, which is a new country with not a lot of information on it yet.

To the west (beyond Valasharix) are the Tzaltec Empire and its ally METAL (DarkDM and NPC respectively), another Salterri vassal, the Niemida Prefecture, the Caramel Kingdom (Philote) and the Thalmann Legacy (Randolf) each of which currently has just the one region. The Caramel Kingdom is also a vassal of the Empire of Dawn (Wombat, Sam and XIII).

A lot further to the north are the Empire of the Silver Moon (Lord_Burch), Alzeroth (a NPC vassal to Hurosha, which is Waylander) and the Del'Taihn Provinces and Fera (NPC vassals of Niskovia, run by Kitsanth).
Details on all of these are - I think - in the Lands thread, although we can probably answer any specific questions about any of them here.

You might also be interested to see the existing details on 148 that came out when it was discovered. You're not obliged to keep these (and you get three resources rather than two in any case; also I'd recommend rerolling the population) but you're also welcome to keep it if it takes your fancy.

It has one [Good] resource of Skygoats and one [Good] Undefined resource! It's people revere the sky spirits and believe the skygoats to be the souls of their ancestors who acheived enlightenment and the Skygoats are considered sacred animals to the people! The region contains a population of 410,000!

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 01:12 PM

I really have no trouble going to a spot other than 148 moosabi. Maybe even take one of the polar regions, could be interesting. Again I have to double check vacancies and the like.

Gengy

2015-02-28, 01:16 PM

Shadow, you're welcome to join the list of people whom start underwater. I can recommend some good spots :smallbiggrin:

I can recommend excellent spots, if you'd like to start out with vassalege in mind :smalltongue: (kidding, kidding! ...mostly...)

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 01:17 PM

Well all those angry faces make the place really welcoming for new players.

I really have no trouble going to a spot other than 148 moosabi. Maybe even take one of the polar regions, could be interesting. Again I have to double check vacancies and the like.

Best bet is to PM Quinton, although I'm pretty sure all the regions I mentioned above are available. Polar regions are interesting, but also come with some fairly hefty mechanical disadvantages, so that's something to bear in mind I guess.

Morph Bark

2015-02-28, 01:19 PM

...

:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

*sigh*

Please ask Quinton for unexplored regions. I've had enough of my actions being wasted.

Relax, you're nowhere near Guilder levels of thwarted colonizations (they number more than a dozen) and even if Shadow takes 148 you will still have a Great Kingdom very soon with 165. If he'd start in 148 his expansion options would also be far more limited than yours are with your acquisition of 165, and having a neighbour means more options for you to gain alliances nearby.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 01:22 PM

As I read through stuff becoming an underwater vassal might be the way to go xD

moossabi

2015-02-28, 01:25 PM

Ok, I'm back to normal. Temporary burst of insanity, seems to happen a lot.

So, how's stuff?

Morph Bark

2015-02-28, 01:25 PM

Well, Shadow, there are a lot of options open for you:
- Uncolonized land regions
- Unexplored land regions (requires QuintonBeck's approval and cooperation)
- Underwater regions (unexplored or not)
- Underground regions (many of which are unexplored, but 76B and 21B are still not occupied)
- Taking over an NPC nation

For polar regions, there are probably anywhere up to 8 polar regions in the south yet unexplored, and I think P6 up north is also still unoccupied. Not sure about P6 though, but the south is wide open.

As to underwater vassals, you'd have to ask WaylanderX or RandoMan about that, as they are the only two players who can vassalize others and who already have underwater regions.

moossabi

2015-02-28, 01:27 PM

As to underwater vassals, you'd have to ask WaylanderX or RandoMan about that, as they are the only two players who can vassalize others and who already have underwater regions.

Wait, can't he vassalize under Gengy?

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 01:33 PM

Wait, can't he vassalize under Gengy?

Gengy doesn't have a Great Kingdom.

I should note that playing an underwater region is not for everyone so, Shadow, there's no obligation at all to go that route if you don't want to. Nor is being a vassal, although speaking as someone who's never been anything but a vassal in this game, it's actually a pretty good deal so long as your liege isn't totally hopeless.

moossabi

2015-02-28, 01:38 PM

Gengy doesn't have a Great Kingdom.

I should note that playing an underwater region is not for everyone so, Shadow, there's no obligation at all to go that route if you don't want to. Nor is being a vassal, although speaking as someone who's never been anything but a vassal in this game, it's actually a pretty good deal so long as your liege isn't totally hopeless.

Ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh...

I forgot about that rule. :smallconfused::smalltongue:

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 01:52 PM

Lunch time. Then the Kingdom of Faelthalas will be worked on

moossabi

2015-02-28, 01:57 PM

Lunch time. Then the Kingdom of Faelthalas will be worked on

That name is flippin awesome. Just wanted to say so.

Gengy

2015-02-28, 01:57 PM

I can recommend excellent spots, if you'd like to start out with vassalege in mind :smalltongue: (kidding, kidding! ...mostly...)

Wait. That worked?!? Echum, I mean...

...yes. Yes, you are welcome to underwater areas. If you are interested with vasslaege in mind, I've got some recommendations. But as others have said, you don't have to vassalize. If you *are* interested, though, Praeclarus has some lovely welcome gifts! PM me.

...with that in mind, there are some zones I am also working to diplomicize (ie, colonize) and would appreciate a heads up if you were interested in those region(s).

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 02:38 PM

That name is flippin awesome. Just wanted to say so.

Thank you thank you

EDIT: 153 looks increasingly interesting

ShadowShrubbery

2015-02-28, 03:37 PM

Hey guys, I am very intrigued by Empire! and can't wait to play it. My interest lies in having a polar kingdom, either northern or southern. If a GM could reply with more info for me, that'd be great. Can't Wait!

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 03:42 PM

Thank you thank you

EDIT: 153 looks increasingly interesting
153 is occupied, unfortunately.

Hey guys, I am very intrigued by Empire! and can't wait to play it. My interest lies in having a polar kingdom, either northern or southern. If a GM could reply with more info for me, that'd be great. Can't Wait!

Two new players called Shadow, this won't get confusing... :smallwink:

P6 and P7 are currently empty and available for claiming. A logically conjectured P5 would be too, if Quinton chose to make it available.

There are also polar regions in the south, but they haven't yet been discovered and I'm not sure how far they are from the edge of the current map and so whether they'd be appropriate for a new player to start in.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 03:47 PM

Is the spreadsheet not updated bc I keep seeing empties but they're occupied

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 03:57 PM

Which spreadsheet? Most of the lists stored on the forum are at least slightly out of date, as there's been a lot of expansion recently.

I think the list on the wiki (http://gitp-empire.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Regions) is up to date, though. I'm not sure about 72, and looking at that reminds me that I think 101 is currently empty in addition to those I already mentioned.

Morph Bark

2015-02-28, 04:10 PM

Here (http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww337/QuintonBeck/Empire%20Map%20Main%20Round%2035%20Nations_zpsjozb mlrg.jpg~original) is the latest map, click to zoom in. Unfortunately, the OP of the Lands of Telluris thread is not up to date, due to the creator of the thread being very busy and not around as much as before.

The following regions are unoccupied:

P6
P7
21B
76B
128
144
148*
160*
165*
U6
U13*
U15*
U17*
U21
U27
U32*

*These are currently in the process of being colonized by players. However, as a rule, new players may come into those regions regardless. It would mean you'd have instant connections with the player who has been there, and you could use this to build an alliance between the two of you.

METAL (four regions, orcs)
Ahmeskharras [formerly known as the Clanships] (one region, a splinter from METAL)
Razdis (two regions, dwarves)
The Sulvan Primarchy (one region, dwarves, vassal to Ashenia)
The Kingdom of the Isles (four island regions, spriggans and snow trolls, vassal to the Kingdom of the Carmine Sea/Salterri Imperium)
Niemida Prefecture (two regions, humans, vassal to the Salterri Imperium)
Nanguang Prefecture (two regions, vassal to the Salterri Imperium)
Propinlonge Prefecture (one region, vassal to the Seaborne Confederation)
Alydaxis (four regions, mostly lizardfolk, vassal to the Empire of the Silver Moon)
Glirfrey (one region, lizardfolk, formerly part of Alydaxis, split off for mechanical reasons)
The Kingdom of Stolok/the Planinfrag (one region, humans and orcs, vassal to Glazfell)
The Kingdom of the Iron Doctrine (three regions, Skaven expys, vassal to Glazfell)
Kemuliaan (one region, undead mummy-king, independent)
Abyssian Sea Coalition (two underwater regions, trilobite-people, vassal to Mularuhm/Salterri Imperium)
Alzeroth (one region, humans, vassal to the Hurosha Empire)
Fera (a few regions, vassal to Niskovia)

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 04:35 PM

While Polar, 160 interests me immensely. Should I do dice rolls now or do i have to get approved beforehand?

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 04:54 PM

While Polar, 160 interests me immensely. Should I do dice rolls now or do i have to get approved beforehand?

You're welcome to do the rolls now so you know what you're dealing with. I should probably note in the spirit of Morph's list above that 160 is also currently being colonised, although it would in some ways be hilariously fitting for a new player to ninja the colonisation... As he says, new players claiming regions take priority over existing players' expansion in any case.

160 isn't actually a polar region (despite being cold) so doesn't have the same restrictions: it has three Good resources and a regular population. Only regions with a P before the number count as polar for mechanical purposes.

Information on 160 from when it was discovered: It has one [Good] resource of Malhanan Brew and one [Good] resource of Whispered Darkness. The majority of the population makes its home in a series of three city-states in the northern greener portion of the region which are run by three enigmatic meisters respectively. The meisters and their officials seem to afflicted with black tongues. The region has a population of 710,000!

As with 148 you're welcome to write your own stuff for the region and redefine the resources, although you might also like to build on what's already there.

Shadowz1797

2015-02-28, 05:00 PM

Is the existing info for 128 on the wiki?

Think I'll go with 160 actually
*sorry to whoever i'm doing this to*

Morph Bark

2015-02-28, 05:44 PM

Information on 160 from when it was discovered: It has one [Good] resource of Malhanan Brew and one [Good] resource of Whispered Darkness. The majority of the population makes its home in a series of three city-states in the northern greener portion of the region which are run by three enigmatic meisters respectively. The meisters and their officials seem to afflicted with black tongues. The region has a population of 710,000!

On the subject of these two resources, and other resources that are going to be mentioned in the New Map! section of round opening posts: typically only a name is given, and the player whose region it is or becomes is fully free to define the resource by the name alone. This typically yields some very interesting results.

EDIT: I've edited my above post in line with Aedilred's given info. I didn't know it was getting colonized. Is Moos also colonizing that one, or Randolf?

Kasanip

2015-02-28, 06:12 PM

Doom, I'd like to direct you to the Changing Rulers subsection of the Starting: Creating Your First Ruler:

The scores for any successors of Khoonbish would therefore be rolled for prior to assigning rolls to scores, and the two +1s would also be freely assigned.

This is a huge problem.
I mean, a really huge one. I rolled Khoonbish with the regular successor bonuses. I didn't realize coming up with a unique succession method would kneecap me like this. The fluff problems are already bad enough, being quietly scorned by royals lines and without any royal blood to buy or sell.

I took Regency to mean "In the event normal succession is suspended or disrupted". In the Case of New Crima, that would be if something where to disrupt the games, or if both the Tyrant and Champion Heir were to die at the same time. If there was some sort of coup that put a member of Parliament as the de facto most significant figure in the government.

I've put a lot of thought into the Game of Death. I might have if I knew the rules would punish me for doing so.

It isn't a problem, I think. :smallsmile: It is situation for Chivalric Republic of United Free Cities, too. Such a rule allows the assigned rolls and bonus point for desired ability. For example, usual style of Free Knight is to have powerful [Military] and [Diplomacy]. So such a bonus is used.

In such a way, it can be decided by Doomhat the attribute of ruler. If Khoonbish is strong [Military] and [Diplomacy], such a +1 can be assigned, and the largest rolled dice can be assigned to these attributes.
Such a [Game of Death] can be used with this system.

TheDarkDM

2015-02-28, 06:33 PM

EDIT: I've edited my above post in line with Aedilred's given info. I didn't know it was getting colonized. Is Moos also colonizing that one, or Randolf?

I think it's Sam, actually.

Rain Dragon

2015-02-28, 06:49 PM

Aedilred

2015-02-28, 07:07 PM

Is the existing info for 128 on the wiki?

128 is also in the process of being occupied, as it happens, though the player in question won't mind if a new one takes it.

Discovery information on new regions is generally in the round opening post where they're discovered (this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?326407-EMPIRE!-A-World-Building-Game-of-People-amp-Discovery/page33)) - as Morph says this is often pretty general and so doesn't tend to get reposted elsewhere.

moossabi

2015-02-28, 10:48 PM

I think it's Sam, actually.

Yeah, for purposes of peacekeeping and such. It'd be interesting to have another neighbor in a space that I was not colonizing...

SamBurke

2015-03-01, 02:52 AM

This is a huge problem.
I mean, a really huge one. I rolled Khoonbish with the regular successor bonuses. I didn't realize coming up with a unique succession method would kneecap me like this. The fluff problems are already bad enough, being quietly scorned by royals lines and without any royal blood to buy or sell.

I took Regency to mean "In the event normal succession is suspended or disrupted". In the Case of New Crima, that would be if something where to disrupt the games, or if both the Tyrant and Champion Heir were to die at the same time. If there was some sort of coup that put a member of Parliament as the de facto most significant figure in the government.

I've put a lot of thought into the Game of Death. I might have if I knew the rules would punish me for doing so. I'm working on some techs to help non-successions work well, and there's the new school tech from the Tris... It's not much, but it's a start. Maybe we could discuss some ideas of ways to make non-inheritance rulers work.

Until then, I'll work on my possible tyrant.

...

:smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

*sigh*

Please ask Quinton for unexplored regions. I've had enough of my actions being wasted. Welcome to the wonderful world of being Guildered. This is your third time in this world, correct?

Relax, you're nowhere near Guilder levels of thwarted colonizations (they number more than a dozen) and even if Shadow takes 148 you will still have a Great Kingdom very soon with 165. If he'd start in 148 his expansion options would also be far more limited than yours are with your acquisition of 165, and having a neighbour means more options for you to gain alliances nearby. Only a dozen? I need to go colonizing spuriously to rack up some mo--

While Polar, 160 interests me immensely. Should I do dice rolls now or do i have to get approved beforehand?WELL THEN. Ask and ye shall receive. Though that would make me laugh uproariously if it was the case... I support it.

On the subject of these two resources, and other resources that are going to be mentioned in the New Map! section of round opening posts: typically only a name is given, and the player whose region it is or becomes is fully free to define the resource by the name alone. This typically yields some very interesting results.

EDIT: I've edited my above post in line with Aedilred's given info. I didn't know it was getting colonized. Is Moos also colonizing that one, or Randolf?Moos, Randolf, and I are all attempting to. Guilder currently has the edge.

I think it's Sam, actually.I have succeeded, yes, but there were other colonization discussions and attempts as mentioned above.

Yeah, for purposes of peacekeeping and such. It'd be interesting to have another neighbor in a space that I was not colonizing...Yeah, it's kind of suboptimal for everyone in the region, but it does solve the problem effectively.

HalfTangible

2015-03-01, 08:20 AM

"Help non-sucessions work well"

Guys, the entire point of having a non-direct successor is the ability to decide which of their stats go where in exchange for them being much lower >.>

Lady Serpentine

2015-03-01, 08:33 AM

"Help non-sucessions work well"

Guys, the entire point of having a non-direct successor is the ability to decide which of their stats go where in exchange for them being much lower >.>

But the implementation is crap; it is, to put it bluntly, stupid that it is folded into the family tree - if the mechanics are balanced, there is no need for a further restriction, and if they aren't, fixing that is the solution, not slapping on a fluff restriction. :smallsigh:

HalfTangible

2015-03-01, 09:14 AM

Aedilred

2015-03-01, 11:36 AM

But the implementation is crap; it is, to put it bluntly, stupid that it is folded into the family tree - if the mechanics are balanced, there is no need for a further restriction, and if they aren't, fixing that is the solution, not slapping on a fluff restriction. :smallsigh:

I'm not sure I really understand where you're coming from.

If your rulers are generally non-hereditary, their scores may be lower (depending on the particular attributes of a previous hereditary one) but that is compensated partially by the flexibility in assignation and also by the flexibility it gives you with their reign length: if you get a Piandao or dump a ruler before they've built up their stats you get a chance to roll up a fresh one with the same bonuses. With a hereditary ruler if you lose or otherwise ditch a ruler prematurely your next one pays the price. There are also technologies being introduced to give advantages to non-hereditary rulers.

I don't see why its being folded into the family tree is remotely a problem given that players retain almost complete control over that family tree. And if by some bizarre contrivance of circumstances you accidentally end up short of a hereditary heir the adoption rules allow you to introduce one (a feature of which players often make use). To an extent it probably depends where you stand on the gamist/simulationist continuum but the rules tend to prioritise simulationism where possible and that's kind of the standing presumption in the game given its nature, I think.

In reality I don't think the game was ever really designed to deal with non-hereditary rulers as a permanent state of affairs. The front page of this thread still says "In this game, you will play a character, a ruler of a region. And once s/he dies, you will play their heir and so on, continuing on the family legacy." Now, maybe that needs to be addressed, but that several players have adopted what under the rules is sort of a permanent state of regency suggests that doing so is a viable strategy even if the game wasn't designed for it and that there may even be advantages in doing so (as with the Triumvirate and being a tech factory, for instance).

It's also worth noting that plenty of people who have fully monarchical systems have had to re-generate rulers using the non-inherited system and none of them seem to have suffered any lasting disadvantage. If your ruler is in power for a long time, your starting attributes rapidly become pretty irrelevant. If you're burning through rulers quickly, the attributes of the previous one tend not to matter so much because they never high enough to make much of a difference to the successor.

It is perhaps unfortunate that Doom's succession system seems almost perfectly designed to fall through the cracks in the rules, but I'm also not entirely sure why it's coming as a surprise. In fact I'd always assumed that mechanically he had set it up this way on purpose...

The system is not necessarily ideal as things stand but I don't think it's all that bad, either.

DoomHat

2015-03-01, 11:57 AM

~Snip~

I think I was mostly in denial. "Surely the Regent rules are there for upheaval and discontinuations of the norm. Surely."

I'd thought of the previous ruler bonuses as a reward and legacy for having managed to cultivate a single ruler across a long stretch of decades, no small feat in light of assassination, capture in battle, or diehard dedication to holding to established fluff in my case. To me the "hereditary" bonuses feel like a culmination of all the sweat and tears of the previous generation.

Khoonbish has been an the throne long enough that there are a not small number of adult to whom Oluska might as well be a figure of distant legend. Their whole lives have been shaped by the enduring presence of their strange, unsettling, and generally not well liked Tyrant.

I feel strongly disincentivized from putting so much work into cultivating a given Tyrant if all their works mechanically come to nothing. Just another cog in the machinery of the government as a whole, rather then the omnipotent shaper and definer of an age.

HalfTangible

2015-03-01, 12:15 PM

I think I was mostly in denial. "Surely the Regent rules are there for upheaval and discontinuations of the norm. Surely."

I'd thought of the previous ruler bonuses as a reward and legacy for having managed to cultivate a single ruler across a long stretch of decades, no small feat in light of assassination, capture in battle, or diehard dedication to holding to established fluff in my case. To me the "hereditary" bonuses feel like a culmination of all the sweat and tears of the previous generation.

Khoonbish has been an the throne long enough that there are a not small number of adult to whom Oluska might as well be a figure of distant legend. Their whole lives have been shaped by the enduring presence of their strange, unsettling, and generally not well liked Tyrant.

I feel strongly disincentivized from putting so much work into cultivating a given Tyrant if all their works mechanically come to nothing. Just another cog in the machinery of the government as a whole, rather then the omnipotent shaper and definer of an age.

If I may offer a solution.

Even in systems like a democracy system or a dictatorship where bloodlines aren't a strict rule, it's fairly common for the child of a given ruler to be put forward in the consideration process for the next ruler. We've had multiple Roosevelts and Clintons in the US, for instance. It seems to me like if you set up a system like this, where the different potentials compete for the honor, putting in a child of the ruler would not only make sense but be expected. In that vein of thought, that child would then have the advantages of being your ruler's blood successor, but be able to be outsed if a better/luckier candidate happens to come along.

Why not simply include at least one child of a tyrant in each game, and retool them so that they rely on the characters' actual stats like they would in the Olympics Tellurian Games? You get the advantage of selecting stats for a particular ruler, but also have the potential for your bloodline to build upon itself. So if, for example, I contributed a ruler who managed to get all 4s, and your tyrant's child got all 1s, you could have the guy with 4s instead.

(Personally, I find the changing of the ruler to be helpful both in writing that ruler and differentiating them from their own legacy. Being a descendant all too often leads to comparisons to the ancestor, and it's not always a good thing. It makes an empire static, and difficult to change.)

ShadowShrubbery

2015-03-01, 01:15 PM

Sorry for not getting back sooner, I haven't had a chance to get on. I would love P6, and if I can claim it I will get started on my rolls/background ASAP. Thanks

HalfTangible

2015-03-01, 02:36 PM

...

So I had a thought: how long before Tzalteclan pulls a Ghengis Khan and ends up having descendants literally everywhere?

...

And what would happen to their ideal of dragon's blood being superior if pretty much everyone had it?

...

Yeah, I realize neither of these things will actually happen in the game's lifespan (unless this game continues to 2100 our time, maybe) but it's still an interesting idea to consider, methinks.

Aedilred

2015-03-01, 02:46 PM

Sorry for not getting back sooner, I haven't had a chance to get on. I would love P6, and if I can claim it I will get started on my rolls/background ASAP. Thanks

P6 should be fine. As far as I know there's been nothing on it previously, and you should have room for expansion to east and west (Kitsanth is your southern neighbour). You might also want to talk to the (NPC) Warriors of Syivine, as they've spent a lot of time around the pole and (I think?) have a technology you might find useful.

So I had a thought: how long before Tzalteclan pulls a Ghengis Khan and ends up having descendants literally everywhere?

...

And what would happen to their ideal of dragon's blood being superior if pretty much everyone had it?
If they had any intention of keeping it exclusive it was probably a mistake to marry into the house of Li.

In any case I think the dragon blood kind of needs to be "activated" in order to have any effect, based on weird Tzaltec stuff. Hence how Vizini and Wesley (and other living members of the house of Tumberink) are descended from Nezetkhamun but are not considered "blood of the dragon" or something.

I believe that the stuff about Genghis Khan and Charlemagne and so on and how we're all descended from them is based on statistics (and thus lies) and probabilities and thus doesn't necessarily reflect reality. There are almost certainly large populations who have no Genghis in them at all.

Some time after Quinton asked for it, total populations following the latest increase!

RealmPopulation
Salterri Imperium46,962,000
Union of Radurjic Republics14,208,000
Glazfelli Hegemony (including vassals)13,699,000
Hurosha Empire (including vassals)12,855,000
Kingdom of the Carmine Sea (including vassals)12,431,000
Empire of the Silver Moon11,583,000+
Empire of Dawn11,579,000
Commonwealth of Lorvyn10,504,000
Kingdom of the Carmine Sea8,359,000
Glazfelli Hegemony7,977,000
Hurosha Empire7,345,000
Salterri Heartlands7,252,000
Kingdom of Ashenia (including vassals)7,071,000
Kingdom of Serendel6,990,000
Caercian Consortium6,715,000
Kingdom of Mularuhm (including vassals)6,488,000
Kingdom of the Silver Moon6,284,000+
Kingdom of Celero6,042,000
Kingdom of Ashenia5,841,000
Kingdom of Mularuhm5,825,000
Faedas Freehold5,764,000
Seaborne Confederation (including vassals)5,635,000
Kingdom of Calorum4,971,000
Seaborne Confederation4,880,000
Tzaltec Empire4,599,000
Imperial Alydaxian Dominion4,207,000
Kingdom of the Isles4,072,000
METAL (including vassals)4,034,000
Fera3,954,000*
Guilderene Expanse3,768,000
Sovereign Principality of Niskovia3,701,000†
Tyranny of New Crima3,678,000
METAL3,490,000
Kingdom of the Iron Doctrine2,943,000
Del'Taihn Provinces2,849,000
United Free Cities2,706,000
Valasharix2,127,000
Holy Kingdom of Sycia1,836,000
Pavonian Imperium1,723,000
Razdissi Underpire1,463,000
Sulvan Primarchy1,191,000
Coalition of the Abyssian Sea1,189,000
Niemida Prefecture1,187,000
Nanguang Prefecture1,184,000
Kemuliaan1,116,000
Glirfrey1,092,000
Caramel Kingdom1,069,000
Kingdom of Stolok943,000
Trandar930,000
Kingdom of Novrania755,000
Makgrull719,000
Ahmeskharras544,000
Alzeroth Collective539,000
Thalmann Legacy438,000
An Nádur60,000
Warriors of Syvine39,000
Tuvaak32,000
Everburning Horde9,030
The One Who Watches1
Total Known Globalc.167,000,000

Realms marked with a + have one or more regions without a defined population and so may have a higher population than listed.
*Includes Halja (pop. 935,000)
†Excludes Halja (pop. 935,000)

QuintonBeck

2015-03-01, 03:49 PM

Sorry for not getting back sooner, I haven't had a chance to get on. I would love P6, and if I can claim it I will get started on my rolls/background ASAP. Thanks

P6 is available so feel free to start on a writeup. Be aware that Polar regions suffer some mechanical drawbacks but on the other hand are currently rather ignored by existing players so you'll have an advantage there in all likelihood.

Philote

2015-03-01, 03:59 PM

Aedilred

2015-03-01, 04:22 PM

Aed, I think there may have been a mistake with my population calculations. That or I'm misunderstanding something in the rules.

I rolled a 76 on population. So for a starting value I believe I had 790,000 = ((76*10,000)+30,00)

Then last round I had a population increase of 9 units, leaving me at 799,000 I believe.

If I had another population increase this round, I should be higher than the 789,000 you have listed.

In fact it should be even higher than that, since the +30,000 is really a +300,000 (some of that stuff apparently got missed when we did the population increase). For some reason I had your initial population as 780,000 (not sure why I got 78 rather than 76, and I totally goofed the extra 30), with the extra 9,000 from the increase last round taking it to 789,000. Population increase is only rolled once every five rounds, though, so there have been no further increases.

In fact your population should therefore be 1,069,000.

Shadowz1797

2015-03-01, 08:04 PM

Aedilred

2015-03-01, 08:24 PM

I've noticed that secondary threads (due to a lot of posting) have been made for a lot of the functions of is game, could somebody please direct me to the correct links for all I need (I'm assuming trade, actions, etc.) so that I can subscribe?

Thanks, the Kingdom of Faelthalas should be up soon.

PS how do I go about technology as a new nation?
The rules thread is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376064-EMPIRE!-Rules-and-Administration).
Region posts go here initially then on the Lands of Telluris thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?351078-Empire!-The-Lands-of-Telluris-%28the-fluff-beyond-the-crunch%29&p=17603862#post17603862).
Actions are posted in the main IC thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?326407-EMPIRE!-A-World-Building-Game-of-People-amp-Discovery).
Trades are currently recorded on a googledoc, which is here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TpA3qJEj9sli8KRuBgc8HTxaiKa5iv_gIsAcd0wJo1U/edit?usp=sharing), although that doesn't become relevant until you start trading (and many players monitor their trades themselves; that's just the central tracking).
There is also some useful stuff on the wiki (link in my sig).
In most rounds, there are events held where someone hosts a gathering of other people's characters. Those crop up on an as-and-when basis with links usually given by PM or in this thread depending how private they are.
There is also a Skype chat if you're interested in joining that (PM me), although there's a lot of general chatter there as well as Empire! stuff.

Links to most of these things as well as other useful features are on the first page of each of these main OOC threads. There is a FAQ/new player guide by Wombat on the rules thread too.

There has been discussion of new players possibly starting with a couple of basic technologies (Ocean-Faring Ships and Plate Armour, usually) but by default you start with none. They can be acquired through trade with other players, theft, or inventing them yourself. If you join an alliance or become a vassal you will often be given a lot of that group's technologies to help you get on your feet, but it also tends to come with strings attached and it's not always a great idea to jump on board with the first people who come knocking. On the other hand, sometimes it is: judging that is part of the fun :smallwink:

Shadowz1797

2015-03-01, 10:18 PM

The Kingdom of Faelthalas

Region 99
Population: 940,000

http://i60.tinypic.com/ptblx.png

Ruler:
King Trius Pyrrhanal III
Diplomacy: 5 (4+1)
Military: 5 (4+1)
Curiosity:4
Luck: 3
Faith: 2

Resources:
Wood [Good], Fish [Good], Adamantium [Good]
Resource Needed: Crops

Terrain:
The Kingdom of Faelthalas is a bleak place. The majority of the land is covered in stony hills and valleys. Regardless of this, the nation’s people generally make their towns at the base of hills, and for work if they are close to the coast will turn to fishing, and if not will gather wood from one of the many dense forests spotted around Faelthalas.

Three notable landmarks:
Winterside Forest: On the southeastern side of Faelthalas is the Winterside Forest. Made up of mostly evergreen kinds of trees, these forests are habitat to the majority of wildlife found in Faelthalas. Being one of the primary work outlets for peasants of Faelthalas, it is not uncommon to find temporary villages and loggers camps within this forest. When Faelthalas was originally being claimed by the glorious King Trius Pyrrhanal I from inhabiting barbarians, The Winterside Forest was the main army base used. Because of its significance in claiming the country, the Winterside Forest is often revered as the lifeblood of the nation, not only giving much of the population money in the form of wood sales, but serving as a constant reminder of where they all came from.

The Pirhan Valley Chain: Named for King Trius Pyrrhanal I, the Pirhan Valley Chain is a group of three valleys in the West and within them three different towns (Northern Valley: Dalbor, Eastern Valley: Hyolstad, Western Valley: Kryn.) that together make up the city of Greater Pirhan, the capital of Faelthalas. Within Greater Pirhan, the main castle and other governmental functions are found in the city of Hyolstad. The Pirhan Valley Chain is windy most times of day, but generally occurs in small bursts of 5-10 minutes, interrupted by a generally 30 minute stoppage. These valleys are heralded for their natural beauty and it is said that whilst atop the Northern Valley, you can see each major city in Faelthalas, being Greater Pirhan, Hrrostad to the southeast (near the Winterside Forest), and Cralyk on the northeastern coast.

Hrrostad: (Pronounced Row-Stad) The Hrrostad is one of the most historically signifcant areas in all of Faelthalas. Originally the barbarian capital of the region Pre-Faelthalas, it was captured during the conquest of King Trius Pyrrhanas I. In their history, the Faels (citizens of Faelthalas) were nomads themselves, and uphold the value of remembering those who came before you. Therefore after the barbarians were driven out, Hrrostad became inhabited by the Faels instead of razing it. The city center of Hrrostad was left untouched as town additions were added around it, so that all the residents of Faelthalas could have at least a little insight onto those who came before them in this region.

People
The Faels of Faelthalas are generally relatively tall and burly, and are pale, more so depending on the region. Northern Faels are generally less pale while Faels inhabiting any southern regions are paler. While it varies, Faels generally have dark hair and dark eyes. Faels are extremely hardy and are not quick to complain. Most Faels are relatively cold resistant but naturally prefer warmer environments.

Culture
Faels have a very perseverant culture. Next to responsibility, being a hardy person is the trait most valued, and while complaints are necessary at times, they are looked down upon in excess. The most important thing in life to a Fael is camaraderie between all Faels, as they’re made aware of the great things they can accomplish while together, the main evidence being the fact that they were able to claim Faelthalas from the barbarians. On one day a year during the winter months, the Faels all gather in Greater Pirhan and have the Frostreach Festival, a celebration of the founding of Faelthalas in practice, but in design was originally a festival solely to bring the Faels together. The majority of Faels religiously practice the Faeldra religion.

Religion
While some are pagans, the majority of Faelthalas practices Faeldra. Coming from the word Fael (which in Faelish means blizzard), the practice of Faeldra can be traced back to the Fael’s roots in colder territories as nomads. Faeldra is a Monotheistic religion, with its worshippers worshipping Lyrea, otherwise known as the Snowfall Queen. Lyrea is said to visit worshippers in the form of wolves, and therefore Faels make pilgrimage to the Winterside Forest (if they do not reside in Hrrostad) in hopes of seeing a wolf and becoming enlightened. While there are small altars in basically every town in Faelthalas, the three major cities each have one of the Frej (pronounced fray) Altars, magnificent structures which each have their own high priest. Exactly one week after the Frostreach Festival, all of the high priests gather at the Frej Altar in Greater Pirhan and try to channel Lyrea through them in case she has any direction for the Faels. Another note is that while most Faels practice Faeldra actively, those that don’t actively are not shunned if they still identify as Faeldra. While sometimes influenced from a religious and respect standpoint, the rulers of Faelthalas are not in any way obliged to follow the high priests of Faeldra.

Technology
None