Ritual of Crucimigration/Necropolitan factory as a money making scheme?

[Roentgen]

First some introductory information. My PC is a lvl 11 Chaotic Evil (and I stress NOT chaotic stupid - he has a load of machiavellian schemes up his sleeve) anti-theist Dread Necromancer with the Leadership and Undead Leadership feats in a group consisting mainly of various monstrous PCs that are also some variation of evil. Recently I was talking to my DM about the city the group is currently heading towards and I mentioned the idea of taking the place over as we have started to accumulate too much stuff to continue as murderhobos. The DM told me it's possible to take it over non violently with enough cunning.

With this in mind, if my PC becomes the de facto King I plan to set up a system allowing citizens to petition my PC to turn them undead on the condition that there's a city wide ban on religious worship and all religious artifacts and texts will be handed over for destruction. The church will be repurposed into a crucible of sorts where the rituals of crucimigration will take place. The ritual and the Necropolitan template are detailed here (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/necropolitan.shtml). The ritual requires 3000gp and a written plea as you can see, but the laymen in the city almost certainly won't know that so I can charge them a lot more, perhaps even double. As this is the beginning of a so called 'Bleak Nation' of undead it will no doubt be seen as repulsive and taboo by many of the citizens so I will guarantee discretion. I'm sure there are plenty of self obsessed nobles who believe themselves worthy of living forever and at the same time there'll be plenty of people suffering from disabilities and disease who will want to be free of it.

The first problem I face with the idea of discretion is contacting the petitioners in return to inform them that their plea has been accepted and they're due for an appointment with the Negative Energy Plane. I don't imagine they'll have any trouble slipping out of their homes at night, wreathed in a cloak hurrying towards the crucible and all that. Are there any practical magic solutions that will help maintain the promise of discretion in this regard? I imagine there'll be a time when the balance flips and it'll be considered taboo NOT to be undead which will solve the problem but that's a long way off.

The second problem is figuring out how to automate the process when my PC isn't in the city. Is it possible to dig up an old cleric from the graveyard, turn him into a zombie, awaken him and then tell him exactly what to do and say to complete the ritual for instance? Once unsavoury occult types start being attracted to the cause via Leadership this problem may resolve itself as long as they get a cut of the profits.

The last problem is of course that the undead tend to start decaying. This leads to a callous money making oppertunity naturally! I can set up a building or area, a black sand zen rock garden of sorts with a gentle repose imbued Spell Clock (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a) and charge them to get in for their daily 'treatments'. It's also possible I suppose to sell gentle repose enchanted jewelry to the richest clients for an exorbitant amount of gold.

Is any of this even feasible in the least or have I let my imagination run away with me? :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

It's as feasible as your DM lets it be. If he allows you to play around with the Trap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm) rules, those will let you do pretty much anything and everything you want (it gets a little pricey, but really isn't too bad).

For Gentle Repose to avoid decay:
Your garden could quite simply have an automatic reset magic device trap of Gentle Repose that goes off on everyone who walks through the gate into the garden. The spell has no effect on anyone who's neither a corpse nor an undead, so nobody really cares if it goes off on them inappropriately.

For healing of undead: The no natural healing thing for undead only applies to mindless undead. An injured Necropolitan who takes a couple of days off to just lie still at home heals up without any real difficulties. This is useful if you want your garden to be safely accessible by regular people in case someone gets confused. If you still want them easily healed in visiting, however, you can still do so: Just make a Magic Device Trap of Inflict X wounds keyed to Deathwatch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathwatch.htm), and coded to only go off on undead. You can also add another one for Cure X Wounds (also keyed to Deathwatch, but this time set to go off on the living only) with the same trigger space. Living or undead, anyone who pays the fee to enter the garden feels better after.

If you want to get fancy, you put traps of several useful spells in your garden - Endure Elements, Remove Fear, Calm Emotions (not usually beneficial, but useful for the 'zen garden' vibe you seem to want), Remove Curse, Remove Disease, whatever; go through your spell list - as a Cleric, you've got lots of options.

If you want to make the place very addictive to the living, you can do that with traps too. Get an Extended Delay Poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/delayPoison.htm) trap at a high caster level in there (sufficient that, when extended, it'll last more than 24 hours - caster level 12+), which is followed by a Poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/poison.htm) trap. Your basic commoner-1 going through is perfectly fine ... up until the Delay Poison spell wears off (at which point, the average 11 Con damage on two failed saves will kill him; mixing a potion of Delay Poison and actual poison is a fun way to manipulate low-level characters).



Warnings:
Traps can be disabled, items can be stolen, and people mimic successful tactics. You'll need to have your zen garden watched continuously, and after someone else figures out what's up (which isn't particularly difficult, really), they'll be able to do it too. Sabotage - even just guarding from it - will drive your expenses up. Competition will drive your prices down (although if you've taken the place over, there's things you can do about that) - and sabotaging the competition will also drive your expenses up. Of course, the real conundrum is that in telling your DM you're arranging for a guard, you're also pointing out to him that the thing is vulnerable in a pure RAW manner.

Item prices are where they are for a reason. If you charge well above list rates, you'll probably get a few bites from the people who don't know their magical options... and then someone else will figure out what exactly they are, realize they can charge less, and snipe your future customers while still charging above game-established market. At best, you'll only sell a few long-term items at above list rates (mostly to people with more money than sense, who don't realize they don't have sense; those with more money than sense who realise it? They hire consultants). Do not invest heavily in this tactic - if you do, you'll be left holding a large, worthless stock at some point.

The gold must flow f you wish to keep the city (as opposed to watching it decay into ruin ... although as you're CE, that's very much an option...). Money is only useful when it's changing hands. If you're going to be somewhere for a protracted period of time, every coin you take in you must spend. If you do not, the place will eventually run out of coins. You can spend the coins on useful things - buildings, items, or even art objects to later use as cash elsewhere - but if you just act as a money sink, the economy will grind to a halt; the noble won't have the coins to hire the guard, the guard won't have the coin to buy beer from the tavernkeeper, the taverneeper won't have the coin to pay his taxes to the nobleman. The noble wants to hire the guard's strong arm, the guard wants his beer, and the tavernkeeper wants the noble's protection... but with no coins to flow, nothing gets done (a money-free economy can function, in theory, but it requires essentially everyone truly value 'the common good' over their own, and that pretty much never happens in sufficiently large groups to matter - it is, however, how the basic family unit works). You can keep a sizeable reserve, that's fine, but at some point you're going to have to stop making a coinage profit if you don't want the place to spiral into economic collapse. As you're CE, economic collapse may be acceptable (and even desirable) in your eyes. But if you want to keep the city, rather than just kill it slowly and move on, you need to be aware of this.

It's called Dungeons and Dragons, not Attorneys and Accountants. Be ready for the DM (and the other players) to turn it back towards murderhoboing in one way or another (various adventures related to keeping the city under your control, most likely).

[Roentgen]

Those trap ideas sound amazing. Remove fear, calm emotions, mass suggestion on spell clocks/traps around the city would massively help to foster good relationships between the living and the undead, eventually blurring the lines completely. It's a shame they're so expensive! I'm not sure but I think the city alignment may be true neutral as there's a mixed culture, various religions etc. It's unlikely we'll face competition in the arena of creating undead but if we do they can expect a visit by a couple of shadows as they sleep or otherwise be 'spirited away'. You're right about the gold flow and I don't want the economy of the city to collapse yet anyway, as I have a war against a Pelor bible-thumping metropolis to plan. In light of that I think i'll keep the 'Garden of Repose' open to the public for free to foster good feelings and create gentle repose items to order. Your last warning brings me to the second problem I have, which is automating the process of Necropolitan creation without my PC being in the city. The former king will be placed into a 'hand of the king' type position when I'm not around to keep the various and tedious bureaucracy systems churning away so the running of the city itself isn't that much of a concern. Don't get me wrong, I love the murderhobo life but I'm glad to have somewhere to store all my belongings! Via Undead Leadership I've pressed into service 100 former paladins of pelor as a rudimentary skeleton attack/defence force and I plan for them to become the new guards of the city, or at least join the current guard force.

[Jack_Simth]

Those trap ideas sound amazing. Remove fear, calm emotions, These ones are fine; calm emotions is borderline, but when the only effect is "can't initiate hostilities", most people won't object too much. However:
mass suggestionSooner or later, this one is going to come back and bite you. Hard. The local rogues will identify them soon enough by Search, the local Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and Bards will identify them via Spellcraft's "After rolling a saving throw against a spell targeted on you, determine what that spell was. No action required. No retry." DC 25+spell level clause. If this sort of thing is being arbitrarily meted out, you WILL have a civil war on your hands. Given that this is a game where the object is fun, that is not necessarily a bad thing. But you ought to be aware of it.
on spell clocks/traps around the city would massively help to foster good relationships between the living and the undead, eventually blurring the lines completely.Oh, that reminds me: You must maintain a living population. Undead can't reproduce directly, they must be made from the (ex) living. So among other things, you must not make a necropolitan out of someone who has not successfully bred at least two or three children... well, assuming you care about how things will look in fifty or a hundred years.
It's a shame they're so expensive! I'm not sure but I think the city alignment may be true neutral as there's a mixed culture, various religions etc. It's unlikely we'll face competition in the arena of creating undead but if we do they can expect a visit by a couple of shadows as they sleep or otherwise be 'spirited away'.Which increases your expenses - especially as anyone capable of competing with you in the first place is very likely to be on par with your base power.
You're right about the gold flow and I don't want the economy of the city to collapse yet anyway, as I have a war against a Pelor bible-thumping metropolis to plan. In light of that I think i'll keep the 'Garden of Repose' open to the public for free to foster good feelings and create gentle repose items to order. Your last warning brings me to the second problem I have, which is automating the process of Necropolitan creation without my PC being in the city.Oh, right. You've got a Wizard in the party, right? The ritual described in Libris Mortis makes no mention of level requirements of the overseer. Get a Simulacrum of yourself to do it (assuming you mostly trust your party Wizard, that is). As a seventh level spell, the wizard will probably need a scroll to pull it off - but that's a good thing, as it means the party Wizard doesn't spends his own XP.
The former king will be placed into a 'hand of the king' type position when I'm not around to keep the various and tedious bureaucracy systems churning away so the running of the city itself isn't that much of a concern. Don't get me wrong, I love the murderhobo life but I'm glad to have somewhere to store all my belongings! Via Undead Leadership I've pressed into service 100 former paladins of pelor as a rudimentary skeleton attack/defence force and I plan for them to become the new guards of the city, or at least join the current guard force.Oh, and one last thing: When I looked up the ritual, I noticed a little bit of a problem: It requires calling forth the names of "evil powers and gods" - when you want to implement "a city wide ban on religious worship".

[Roentgen]

Good call on the Mass Suggestion. I don't imagine the undead population will outpace the living population in numbers as not many will be able to afford or be willing to become a Necropolitan, at least not to begin with, but it is something to keep an eye on. As for the party, funnily enough we don't have a Wizard in the party. Here's what we have to work with, with the average ECL being around 12:

Dread Necromancer [my PC, with some spells from BoVD mixed in for flavour]
-Warblade [CE Human Mummy, Undead Leadership Cohort]
-Duskblade [CE Human, Leadership Cohort]
-Lvl 3 Cleric [CE Red Dragon Wyrmling, Dragon Cohort]
-Lvl 3 Sorcerer [CE Red Dragon Wyrmling, Dragon Cohort]

Beguiler [NE Drow]
Swordsage [CE Gargoyle]
Swordsage [?E Vashar]
Warblade [NN Human]
Paladin of Tyranny [LE Dragonkin]
Death Master [?E Tiefling]
Psion [?E Illithid]
Pirate Captain? [NN Human]

DMPCs:
Lvl 2 Homebrew Psion [Human]
Rogue/Shadowdancer [NN Halfling]
Lvl 15 Druid [NN Halfling]

I think I remember the DM mentioning that there were wizards and other arcane types in the city so it may be possible to buy a scroll of Simulacrum. As for the evil powers and gods stipulation I think it can be easily refluffed as 'evil powers' is quite vague. Then again my PC is chaotic evil, he's entitled to be a bit of a hypocrite every now and then. :smallsmile:

[Jack_Simth]

Good call on the Mass Suggestion. I don't imagine the undead population will outpace the living population in numbers as not many will be able to afford or be willing to become a Necropolitan
As soon as it becomes socially acceptable, it'll become rather common.

A basic commoner-3, 6 ranks in a Craft or Profession skill, with masterwork tools and Skill Focus, gets 10.5 gp/week. Over the course of a year, that's an annual gross income of 546 gp. The 3,000 gp base fee represents a about 5.5 years of their gross income.

Post-death, their expenses go down (as do their skills - two lost levels, probably including Skill Focus...), so afterwards, the Necropolitan commoner-1 with masterwork tools gets 8 gp/week, or 416 gp/year gross. The 3,000 gp base fee represents about 7.2 years of their gross income.

Now, this new Necropolitan just lost most of his expenses - and no longer needs to fear death by old age.

So the basic commoner-3 obtains a loan from somewhere for the 3,000 gp base fee at, oh, 10% interest (let's do "compounded annually" for convenience).
He gets the ritual done.
At the end of the first year, he pays 400 gp towards the loan. 10% interest on a 3,000 gp loan is 300 gp. He now owes 2,900 gp.
At the end of the second year, he pays 400 gp towards the loan. 10% interest on a 2,900 gp loan is 290 gp. He now owes 2,790 gp.
and so on.

He pays off his loan in the 15th year (and always has a small amount of money left over for miscallaneous expenses, like replacement clothing, or saving up for replacement tools) having paid about 6,000 gp back to the bank (you). If he loses his masterwork tools, he can only pay 350/year, and doesn't get out of it until year 21, having paid you a bit over 7,000 gp

If it's 13% interest instead, he pays the loan off in year 31, having paid about 12,000 gp to the bank (you). Note that this commoner-1 (or at any higher interest rate) can't afford to lose his tools - if he can only pay 350/year, he's got a problem, as the interest amounts to 390/year at the first year. He's a debt-slave for the rest of his existance.

If it's 13.333% interest instead, he pays it off in year 85, having paid about 34,000 gp to the bank (you).

If it's 13.334% interest, instead, he never pays it off at 400 gp/year (but he can... technically... afford to go higher, and potentially get out of it).

This becomes a bit harder for the commoner if you charge 6k outright. But charging normal and just, you know, giving out suitable loans will more than double the eventual income. Especially as you're the one getting the review fee right back, so your money never actually leaves your hand.


, at least not to begin with, but it is something to keep an eye on. As for the party, funnily enough we don't have a Wizard in the party. Here's what we have to work with, with the average ECL being around 12:

Dread Necromancer [my PC, with some spells from BoVD mixed in for flavour]
-Warblade [CE Human Mummy, Undead Leadership Cohort]
-Duskblade [CE Human, Leadership Cohort]
-Lvl 3 Cleric [CE Red Dragon Wyrmling, Dragon Cohort]
-Lvl 3 Sorcerer [CE Red Dragon Wyrmling, Dragon Cohort]

Beguiler [NE Drow]
Swordsage [CE Gargoyle]
Swordsage [?E Vashar]
Warblade [NN Human]
Paladin of Tyranny [LE Dragonkin]
Death Master [?E Tiefling]
Psion [?E Illithid]
Pirate Captain? [NN Human]

DMPCs:
Lvl 2 Homebrew Psion [Human]
Rogue/Shadowdancer [NN Halfling]
Lvl 15 Druid [NN Halfling]

I think I remember the DM mentioning that there were wizards and other arcane types in the city so it may be possible to buy a scroll of Simulacrum. As for the evil powers and gods stipulation I think it can be easily refluffed as 'evil powers' is quite vague. Then again my PC is chaotic evil, he's entitled to be a bit of a hypocrite every now and then. :smallsmile:

...

Seriously? You worked the mojo to the point of four cohorts on a class largely based around undead minionomancy? How have the other players at the table not cried foul based on how long your turns take? Nevermind... irrelevant...

Well, it'll be a bit until you're in a postition to take over anyway. If you get your Sorcerous red dragon cohort to pick up Practiced Spellcaster (possibly via retraining), then the Dragon has a very good chance of activating the scroll (3 sorcerer levels+4 Practiced Spellcaster = 1d20+7, against a DC of 14 for a CL 13 scroll; needs a 7), and even on a failure, only has a 20% chance of mishap. So before caster level boosting items (which are a good idea), you've got a 70% chance of success per attempt, vs. a 6% chance of losing the scroll on a failure. If the dragon can get another level in the meanwhile, even better.

Note, though, that Dragons get UMD as a class skill, and it's a very useful one (no failure effect for scrolls that way).

[Roentgen]

Haha the cohorts are mostly for RP purposes as the party is already a full house and apart from one occasion in which the Warblade cohort participated none of them have been in a party wide combat yet and won't be if possible to prevent agency being taken away from the other players. For the sake of sanity the 100 undead paladins are for RP purposes too. As for UMD I was shocked it's not on the Dread Necromancer skill list to begin with but because of his huge CHA modifier I've given him some skill points to be able to use it so I should be ok in that regard. 1d20+17.


Hella interest.

That's amazing. I'm going to write this down for future reference. Work oppertunities for craftsmen in the city will skyrocket after I take over as I'll be directing the city to more cultural and philosophical persuits. Theatres, art galleries, undead lifestyle buildings and more will all need to be built. Also, for reference, where are you drawing the info on commoner income etc from? The DMG?

[Jack_Simth]

Haha the cohorts are mostly for RP purposes as the party is already a full house and apart from one occasion in which the Warblade cohort participated none of them have been in a party wide combat yet and won't be if possible to prevent agency being taken away from the other players. For the sake of sanity the 100 undead paladins are for RP purposes too. As for UMD I was shocked it's not on the Dread Necromancer skill list to begin with but because of his huge CHA modifier I've given him some skill points to be able to use it so I should be ok in that regard. 1d20+17.



That's amazing. I'm going to write this down for future reference. Work oppertunities for craftsmen in the city will skyrocket after I take over as I'll be directing the city to more cultural and philosophical persuits. Theatres, art galleries, undead lifestyle buildings and more will all need to be built. Also, for reference, where are you drawing the info on commoner income etc from? The DMG?
Nope. It's a logical conclusion based on:
The Commoner Class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/commoner.htm): Craft and Profession as class skills.
The Standard Array of 10's and 11's (no modifier) in stats.
The Craft Skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm): "You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)"
The Profession Skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm) "You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession’s daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems."
The assumption that there are 52 weeks in a year.
The assumption that NPC's do get *some* wealth (specifically, enough to get masterwork tools), and that a dedicated craftsman or professional will eventually pick up skill focus in their chosen craft/profession.
Taking ten for convenience (if the commoner does not take ten, then the average income is actually 13 gp higher per 52 week year).

[Roentgen]

Thanks for your help Jack. Between this thread and the Items for an Undead Nation thread I'm fit to bursting with ideas.