Fallout New Vegas

[ArlEammon]

This game is still awesome.
By the way, I made it from Doc Mitchel's House at the start of the game to the Credit Check of New Vegas in 34 minutes.

[Narkis]

Indeed it is. And that's really fast. What level were you when you entered Vegas?

[ArlEammon]

Indeed it is. And that's really fast. What level were you when you entered Vegas?

Level 4.


Easy as pie as long as you have that Mercenary Grenade Rifle.

[Narkis]

Heh, I'd say that's a bit too early. Nicely done.:smallsmile:

[ArlEammon]

Heh, I'd say that's a bit too early. Nicely done.:smallsmile:

Thanks. But I can still make to the New Vegas Clinic early on. ;)

[Narkis]

You can't actually afford implants yet though, can you?

[ArlEammon]

You can't actually afford implants yet though, can you?

Not yet. Oh, and I forgot. . . I'm actually level 3. Not 4. :)

[LibraryOgre]

Never understood this; for me, the fun part is sneaking around with a POS rifle, picking off powder gangers. I get annoyed with super-mutants and deathclaws and cazadors.

[ArlEammon]

Never understood this; for me, the fun part is sneaking around with a POS rifle, picking off powder gangers. I get annoyed with super-mutants and deathclaws and cazadors.

Really if you do it like I did, stealthfully climbing the hill side, you can fire the grenade rifle at the Cazadores and take them off one by one. That's the only challenge there is for the small little trek to New Vegas. While you're in the village though, you can get a Fire Axe, which is a very good weapon to get so early in the game. Oh, now I"m level 5 and have 4200 caps. Time to go to the New Vegas Clinic.

[GloatingSwine]

Never understood this; for me, the fun part is sneaking around with a POS rifle, picking off powder gangers. I get annoyed with super-mutants and deathclaws and cazadors.

Deathclaws mean you have to sneak around more and better. I ended my last game able to one shot them with a pistol (as long as it was the right pistol) from a sneak attack.

Of course, if the deathclaw wasn't dead after my sneak attack it was angry and I wasn't really able to deal with that well...

I find that NV holds up way better at high levels than FO3 does at least, it doesn't turn to enemies with infinity hitpoints to try and challenge the player, just ones with very dangerous attacks that you have to fight smart.

[ArlEammon]

Deathclaws mean you have to sneak around more and better. I ended my last game able to one shot them with a pistol (as long as it was the right pistol) from a sneak attack.

Of course, if the deathclaw wasn't dead after my sneak attack it was angry and I wasn't really able to deal with that well...

I find that NV holds up way better at high levels than FO3 does at least, it doesn't turn to enemies with infinity hitpoints to try and challenge the player, just ones with very dangerous attacks that you have to fight smart.

YOu don't need to go the way of Sloan, just go up north from the gas station.

[Triaxx]

Go up from the Gas Station, then at the point where you've got a choice between Chance's Grave and the Tribal village, or following the black top, go towards the village but turn to the right and there's a small cut on the northern wall, leading down into the spring moutain park area. Much easier enemies, in the form of Mantii and Big Horners.

[DigoDragon]

Haven't played NV yet, but I'm about halfway through the main quest of FO3. I love that the series is a fun RPish open game that isn't high fantasy.

[Eldan]

I remember doing it at level 2 or 3 once, with the help of a sprint mod (that I had installed for other reasons) and a sneak specialization. Mostly because I was bored of the starting areas.

[Calemyr]

Low level Clinic runs are always an interesting trick, but I find it's rarely worth it if you're not playing a high luck character. That way you can clean out the casinos one by one through blackjack, giving you the money needed to have fun at Silver Rush, Gun Runners, and the Clinic. (Admittedly, it's also a lot of fun to rob the Silver Rush blind by combining a decent sneak score with the stealth boy in the Goodsprings school safe. 30-some minutes is impressive. Not impossible by any means, especially if you've got the general layout of the region memorized, but certainly impressive.

Of course, there was also the low level Rivet City run to get the Int bobblehead in FO3 at the minimum level possible. And the FO2 race to infiltrate the Enclave outpost and steal enhanced power armor ASAP, too. Fallout usually has one or two really profitable locations that are tricky to get to at low level but really give you an edge if you step up to the challenge.

[DodgerH2O]

I've played through NV so many times I tend to do early Clinic runs as a matter of course. Grab the stealth boy from the schoolhouse, sneak past Black Mountain towards REPCONN, using the Stealth Boy if (when) the Deathclaws get too close for comfort, then an allllmost straight shot north past the Grub'n'Gulp to the Clinic will take you right past the ruined caravan (from Cass's quest). Pick up the suits of combat armor and make a stop by the Crimson Caravan and/or Gun Runners and you have your choice of caps for the credit check and/or the Intelligence Implant, or keep one suit of armor and swap the second for some decent gear.

If I'd done it my first or second playthrough it'd seem like an exploit, but after 20 or more characters it's just nice to be able to have some options rather than slog through the long U through the south and east parts of the map.


EDIT: After getting motivated due to this thread to start yet another character, I realized the Implant requires up to two additional steps, grabbing the snowglobes from Goodsprings and the Mormon Fort and bringing them to the Lucky 38. You can still avoid talking to House and thus triggering his quest, just have to turn in the snowglobes for the 4000 caps and go on your way. Selling the combat armor is still needed for the caps to pass the credit check, but won't be worth nearly enough (on most characters) to get the implant.

[Triaxx]

I've never seen much point in, a low-level clinic run.

My high Luck characters are always Energy based, so they have the massive critical chances that make going that route simple anyway.

[ArlEammon]

I've never seen much point in, a low-level clinic run.

My high Luck characters are always Energy based, so they have the massive critical chances that make going that route simple anyway.

You can farm experience in New Vegas by killing Omertas. . . running out of the Casino and going back in. They will always respawn with expensive gear for you to sell, or even use. Even if you can only manage to kill one you can steal something from them and then get out of the Casino.

[Sajiri]

I picked this up just the other week (only played it once so far). Never played a fallout game before but my partner was trying to get me into it for ages, so I finally relented and gave NV a try. I had fun...I think...not entirely sure what I am doing in it though :smallconfused:

Think I made it to Primm and found them a new sheriff or whatever they asked me to do before turning it off for the day, havent had a chance to play again since

[ArlEammon]

I picked this up just the other week (only played it once so far). Never played a fallout game before but my partner was trying to get me into it for ages, so I finally relented and gave NV a try. I had fun...I think...not entirely sure what I am doing in it though :smallconfused:

Think I made it to Primm and found them a new sheriff or whatever they asked me to do before turning it off for the day, havent had a chance to play again since

Once you make it to Nipton be prepared to be very angry.

[Triaxx]

No spoiling. Half the fun is discovering it yourself.

Are you on the PC? Or a console?

[Chen]

I recently started this up again with Project Nevada loaded along with a bunch of other mods. Completely forgot how to optimize my stats and all, but considering it's not that necessary it still worked out pretty well. Not sure which side I feel like supporting but I'm going to go for a pretty completionist playthrough.

Do any of the sides (NCR, House, Independent, Caesar) really limit a good number of the side quests? I seem to recall that you pretty much have to deal with the Khans, Boomers etc in all the versions, at least one way or another. Am I misremembering any of that?

[Narkis]

I recently started this up again with Project Nevada loaded along with a bunch of other mods. Completely forgot how to optimize my stats and all, but considering it's not that necessary it still worked out pretty well. Not sure which side I feel like supporting but I'm going to go for a pretty completionist playthrough.

Do any of the sides (NCR, House, Independent, Caesar) really limit a good number of the side quests? I seem to recall that you pretty much have to deal with the Khans, Boomers etc in all the versions, at least one way or another. Am I misremembering any of that?

Yeah, all sides send you to deal with the minor factions. The only difference is what outcome they consider acceptable.

[Mobius Twist]

At one point, after finishing a full hardcore run-through with all DLCs as a hyper-intelligent diplomancer, I was tired of trying balance the conflicts and personalities.

So, I created a really dumb (Int 2) murderhobo that literally killed everyone immediately upon encountering them, usually with bare fists.

I found out something important - the amount of experience you get from just killing everything is roughly equivalent to what you'd get by doing quests. With appropriate perks you can easily survive the worst poundings you get (so, pumping Survival to get Rad Child (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rad_Child) early on is key). With such limited intelligence I had to focus on just a couple of skills, so naturally melee/unarmed skills were first and foremost. I suppose by the time that character hits level 50 there won't be a living soul left in the Mojave other than constantly-spawning assassin squads.

[Ailurus]

I recently started this up again with Project Nevada loaded along with a bunch of other mods. Completely forgot how to optimize my stats and all, but considering it's not that necessary it still worked out pretty well. Not sure which side I feel like supporting but I'm going to go for a pretty completionist playthrough.

Do any of the sides (NCR, House, Independent, Caesar) really limit a good number of the side quests? I seem to recall that you pretty much have to deal with the Khans, Boomers etc in all the versions, at least one way or another. Am I misremembering any of that?


Siding with Caesar and siding with NCR/House/Independent is really the big split. If you go with the Legion you get a few legion-specific quests, whereas if you go anti-Caesar its mostly different takes on the same type of operations. But even then, its pretty much just side-quests helping out people in the Fort.

Fixing (or not) Caesar's tumor
Repairing the Legion's howitzer
Participate in arena fights
maybe a couple other little things I'm forgetting right now?


In terms of freedom to pursue side-quests you want, I'd say Yes-man is the best. Siding with the Legion just makes lots of people dislike you and you lose access to several companion quests if you haven't done them already IIRC. House forces you to resolve a few issues in a specific way (Brotherhood is the most glaring), and NCR you keep having to argue with Moore over her insistence to treating most of the non-NCR troops like a doormat (though you can easily overrule her). Yes Man you can do whatever the heck you want mostly.

You are correct that each approach will hit up the same major locations, characters, events just for different reasons or from different points of view though. Probably no more than a half-dozen quests flipping either way.

[Calemyr]

I like to envision the Courier to be an example of Phineas Gage level brain damage.

If you don't know who Phineas Gage is, he was a railroad foreman in the 19th century. An accident with a blasting charge sent a metal bar through his skull, but he survived the injury and recovered more or less completely. The brain damage, however, had a drastic effect on his personality, to the point that people who knew him before the accident didn't see him as the same person anymore.

So you get this quiet, unassuming sort who uses a secret route between NCR and the mojave to make a very profitable business as a courier. Even after the divide mysteriously self destructs, you still make a good go of it, until you take the chip job, which ends with you getting two in the temple for your efforts. Victor digs you up, the Doc puts you back together, but what wakes up in that bed isn't the same person that got buried beneath the water tower. This courier is aggressive, borderline sociopathic, prone to violence, and lacking a certain sense of self-preservation. Honestly, no matter how peace-loving and nice you play the Courier, they are certainly not the faceless mook they used to be.

I find it makes the game make a lot more sense. It also nicely explains the generally sociopathic tendencies players often display in such games. Skyrim and Saints Row do this as well, and I always find it fascinating.

[Triaxx]

The Fallouts have always made for some of the most entertaining MinMaxing in gaming. New Vegas in particular because you can make up in skill as a player what your character lacks. So a character with 2 INT and ten luck, or ten charisma can survive by sheer luck, or being so irresistably charming everyone wants to help him.

I also use a Fallout 2 style rule that means I can only have as many companions as CHA/2. So with 10 CHA I can have 5 companions. It makes much more sense than 1 human, one 'animal'. (Though I do count ED-E and Rex as one of the normal companions.)

[Mobius Twist]

Of course the problem is that you are relying on AI companions to do your fighting for you. If you thought you were spamming Save/Reload before...

[Calemyr]

Of course the problem is that you are relying on AI companions to do your fighting for you. If you thought you were spamming Save/Reload before...

Yeah, but companions in New Vegas are usually pretty competent, and less prone to friendly fire than, say Sulik or Ian. As long as you're not playing a mode or mod where companions can die permanently, they are usually not a detriment - especially highly skilled ones like Boone or Cass. If you're not playing a heavy fighter, it is pretty practical to just take a couple shots to identify the group's primary target and then pick your targets as they become available. It's usually a pretty low-stress way to play, especially if you include a mod that opens up the level range companions can have (capping at level 20 can really hurt once you're level 40).

[Chen]

Yeah when you first get Boone he's a machine. Especially if you've been focusing on building your lockpicking/computers or the like.

[LibraryOgre]

Yeah when you first get Boone he's a machine. Especially if you've been focusing on building your lockpicking/computers or the like.

Downside to BOone? You lose out on gear, since people die without you knowing about it.

[Calemyr]

Downside to BOone? You lose out on gear, since people die without you knowing about it.

*Vwoom* 100 XP.
Courier: Who, where? Dang it, Boone, at least let me know we're in a fight before you finish it...!

[Narkis]

From what I remember the game automatically pointed the camera towards Boone's kill, so you could just move forward and find it.

[Kesnit]

*Vwoom* 100 XP.
Courier: Who, where? Dang it, Boone, at least let me know we're in a fight before you finish it...!

I wanted to do an unarmed playthough, so picked up Boone and ED-E as my companions. I never got to do anything, since the battle would be over before I could get into fist range.

[ArlEammon]

I cleaned the entire East side of the map of Death Claws with a level 12 character. Most of my ammo was gone but it was worth it.

[BladeofObliviom]

I wanted to do an unarmed playthough, so picked up Boone and ED-E as my companions. I never got to do anything, since the battle would be over before I could get into fist range.

Heh, that is a thing that happens. I ended up swapping out Boone for Cass on my unarmed run so that I could actually participate in a fight once in a while. :smallwink:

[Triaxx]

So many people made the mistake of giving Sulik a gun. The trick is to get him the strongest melee weapon you can find. I prefer a Super Sledge, but it's decidedly hard to find without going to Navarro. If I can find one, a Ripper turns him into a demon.

If you can get her some Power Armor, Veronica is the perfect compliment to any melee character. Very punch happy, and more than willing to share. I always like to get Cass a Lever-Action Shotgun, so she's not reloading every other shot.

Anyone else use a selective-fire mod?

[BladeofObliviom]

So many people made the mistake of giving Sulik a gun. The trick is to get him the strongest melee weapon you can find. I prefer a Super Sledge, but it's decidedly hard to find without going to Navarro. If I can find one, a Ripper turns him into a demon.

Super Sledge is awful for a dedicated melee character in Fallout 2, actually. It has ludicrous knockback, so unless you're fighting in an enclosed space or OP enough to one-shot Enclave Soldiers, you'll have to waste AP running to their new position to finish them off while they and their allies get more potshots at you. The Ripper is far superior; slightly less damage and requires common ammo, but more AP efficiency. (It also has the nice advantage of ignoring most of an enemy's DT due to its hidden weapon perk.)

The Super Sledge is actually significantly better if you're trying to create a mixed melee/ranged build, as the knockback allows you to force melee-based enemies to waste AP running back to you every round while you use the rest of your AP to pound at them with another weapon.


For my part, I usually give Sulik a .223 Pistol, since it's one of the best weapons in the game, he has the animation frames and skill ranks for it, and he's unlikely to kill you with Burstfire. Melee Sulik is good too, but you'll have to heal him up after every combat until you can get some power armor on him.

[Rodin]

I loved the Super Sledge just because repeatedly whanging people in the eye with a giant hammer amused me greatly.

[thethird]

If you guys are enjoying NV in PC I should recommend you tale of two wastelands (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/) a really cool mod that turns fallout 3 and new vegas into one awesome humongous game.

[Triaxx]

I gave the Sledge to Sulik because he's going to try and charge anyway, and he might as well do a lot of damage while he's at it.

Mostly though, I used it myself in the Wanamingo mine. Let me stand there and bounce the little beasties back across the mine. Unless I was dedicated melee, in which case it was kind of funny to just walk in and flatten them.

[Rodin]

If you guys are enjoying NV in PC I should recommend you tale of two wastelands (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/) a really cool mod that turns fallout 3 and new vegas into one awesome humongous game.

This has made me interested in playing again.

It's been a looooong time since I last had the games installed, though. Any recommendations for additional mods? I'm already planning on doing Project Nevada since that looks to be supported. Any mods you recommend staying away from that will interfere with those two?

[thethird]

This has made me interested in playing again.

It's been a looooong time since I last had the games installed, though. Any recommendations for additional mods? I'm already planning on doing Project Nevada since that looks to be supported. Any mods you recommend staying away from that will interfere with those two?

There is a mod section (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/forums/tale-two-wastelands-mods-and-modding) which might help. I assume you are aware for there is an update of project nevada (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/project-nevada-ttw).

Still, I would recommend:
NMCs (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/nmcs-texture-packs-cleanup-and-combine) for prettier wastelands
speech checks for fo3 (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/new-vegas-style-speech-checks-fallout-3-content-updated-03302014) I dislike the % things going on in fo3. I don't know if this has been included at the base mod.
wmx (https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/ttw-wmx) for more weapon mods
this transportalponder (http://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/bigmt-transportalponder-upgrade) so you can go places.


After that it depends how much you want to modify both / either games.

[LibraryOgre]

I'd kinda like to see a game set before FO1... the 100 years or so from the end of the world to the founding of Shady Sands or the Brotherhood.

[Mobius Twist]

On the one hand, there weren't any heroes of legend (since we'd have heard about them). On the other hand, someone had to establish all the big settlements (the Hub springs to mind), establish caravan routes, and start the tribal culture that came with the first vaults opening and survivors trying to make it in a wasteland.

Speaking of which, isn't that what the Wasteland games were? I don't quite know the timeline, but Wasteland 2 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/240760/) strikes me as the Icewind Dale to Fallout's Baldur's Gate and it's been pretty well received.

[LibraryOgre]

Not entirely sure; for me, it's partially due to my prudishness about the term "post-apocalyptic", as opposed to the trope of "crapsack world (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld)".

To me FO isn't properly post-apocalyptic because, while it is after an apocalypse, it is so long after the apocalypse that almost no one remembers what the apocalypse was like (I THINK there are scattered ghouls who do). The scars on people's psyches don't exist because of the destruction of their world, but because their world sucks.

Add in my grumpiness of "If it's been 200 years, why has no one emptied this grocery store, yet?", and you get some of my angst about FO (despite generally liking the games).

[Mobius Twist]

A generation is measured in the span of about 20 years, mind you. The difference between trauma from "I saw an explosion as big as the sky" and "I was born in a world that has no basic sanitation" seems arbitrarily small when it comes to a difference of some 20 years at the most. Heck, there could be people born very shortly after the nukes who survived by virtue of their parents being incredibly lucky, and they still don't know anything but the world after.

I remember reading the Suvivalist's diary entries in Honest Hearts DLC and getting a pretty good taste of the scavenging lifestyle of a lone survivor immediately post-End-of-World, and it didn't strike me as especially different than what the Fallout hero experiences, minus established towns. Loot, scavenge, kill, avoid. Rinse and repeat until you're weak and old, or dead.

[ArlEammon]

Not entirely sure; for me, it's partially due to my prudishness about the term "post-apocalyptic", as opposed to the trope of "crapsack world (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld)".

To me FO isn't properly post-apocalyptic because, while it is after an apocalypse, it is so long after the apocalypse that almost no one remembers what the apocalypse was like (I THINK there are scattered ghouls who do). The scars on people's psyches don't exist because of the destruction of their world, but because their world sucks.

Add in my grumpiness of "If it's been 200 years, why has no one emptied this grocery store, yet?", and you get some of my angst about FO (despite generally liking the games).

I can understand some buildings being in disrepair due to the fact that it's hard to have an existing infrastructure after a nuclear war, even two hundred years after the Great War, but the interior of people's houses should not look like Satan took a crap in the middle of the living room floor in nearly every house.

[BladeofObliviom]

I can understand some buildings being in disrepair due to the fact that it's hard to have an existing infrastructure after a nuclear war, even two hundred years after the Great War, but the interior of people's houses should not look like Satan took a crap in the middle of the living room floor in nearly every house.

On the contrary, by the end of two hundred years without human upkeep, virtually all wooden structures will have been completely destroyed by either random lightning-bolt-fires or by wood-eating insects. Steel structures and cars without upkeep will have been partially or fully consumed by rust and may collapse under their own weight. Only the stone structures are likely to last. Then there's all the damage flooding would do to cities without human oversight in sewers, upkeep of levies, or any effort whatsoever to maintain plumbing systems.

This is ignoring, of course, the damage done by the actual nuclear weapons, and only takes into account the effects of disrepair and time.

[ArlEammon]

On the contrary, by the end of two hundred years without human upkeep, virtually all wooden structures will have been completely destroyed by either random lightning-bolt-fires or by wood-eating insects. Steel structures and cars without upkeep will have been partially or fully consumed by rust and may collapse under their own weight. Only the stone structures are likely to last. Then there's all the damage flooding would do to cities without human oversight in sewers, upkeep of levies, or any effort whatsoever to maintain plumbing systems.

This is ignoring, of course, the damage done by the actual nuclear weapons, and only takes into account the effects of disrepair and time.

Well yeah, but not to the extent we see. They have two hundred years to have clean houses. You can be in poverty and still be kind of clean, even if only in a pretend, keeping up appearances kind of way.

[Rodin]

Wound up going with Tale of Two Wastelands and no other mods - did briefly try the Nevada Skies mod but the Rad storms kept crashing my game.

I went for my first "Dumb Muscle" character ever - it's amazing how many stats you can stack up when you've dropped both your Int and Charisma to 1. Getting the Shish-kebab was just the icing on the cake - haven't needed another weapon since.

Once I hit level 10, I decided to bob on over to Vegas and get some questing done there. On arrival in Goodsprings, I decided to head straight for Vegas. The direct route. Without stealth.

Good LORD was that scary. I whacked a good dozen Giant Radscorpions, a similar number of Cazadores, and a full set of Vipers in Bonnie Springs. I was loaded down with medical supplies and food when I left - when I arrived in the Vegas outskirts, I had gained two full levels and was just about out. Meleeing Cazadores sucks.

Still, I've got my sub-dermal implants and my doggie Rex now, so I'm feeling ready for anything.

[Ailurus]

Not entirely sure; for me, it's partially due to my prudishness about the term "post-apocalyptic", as opposed to the trope of "crapsack world (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld)".

To me FO isn't properly post-apocalyptic because, while it is after an apocalypse, it is so long after the apocalypse that almost no one remembers what the apocalypse was like (I THINK there are scattered ghouls who do). The scars on people's psyches don't exist because of the destruction of their world, but because their world sucks.

Add in my grumpiness of "If it's been 200 years, why has no one emptied this grocery store, yet?", and you get some of my angst about FO (despite generally liking the games).

That pretty much sums up my main problem with FO3 (which I know has been discussed to death before) - it can't decide if it wants to be 20ish years post apocalypse (as evidenced by the state of the towns, ruins, etc.) or if it wants to be 200 years after (as stated by the narrative). In two centuries, most of the bombed-out houses with no one in them should be gone, the stores should be picked clean (heck, after just a few years they should be picked clean), and any of the 'communities' you meet that only have a half-dozen or so inhabitants would have either been wiped out or grown into something more significant (Little Lamplight has very disturbing connotations if you actually think about it existing for 200 years). New Vegas at least got rid of a lot of that dissonance, just making the world seem more appropriate for one regrowing from a previous apocalypse.

[Triaxx]

We don't play Bethesda games for the writing. We play for the huge worlds to explore.

That said, Black Isle/Obsidian has always had some of the best world building out there. Fallout 3 has always been more fun if you don't think too hard about how things work. Just enjoy shooting/stabbing/exploding foemans.

[GloatingSwine]

We don't play Bethesda games for the writing. We play for the huge worlds to explore.

That said, Black Isle/Obsidian has always had some of the best world building out there. Fallout 3 has always been more fun if you don't think too hard about how things work. Just enjoy shooting/stabbing/exploding foemans.

Until you hit about level 18 and they're all massive bullet sponges with guns that ignore your armour, of course, because Bethesda couldn't balance the high level play for toffee.

[DigoDragon]

The tv series "Life After People" is what made me look at FO3 and think 'Feels more like this should just be 20 years after the bomb, not 200...'
Then I found a mod that adds a ton more green trees and grass to FO3 and that helped a bit. Also, removed that green tint everything had. Ick. :smallsmile:

I would play a sandbox game set 200 minutes after the bomb. Now that would be a bit different. Most games give the world several decades to sit and do nothing. But right after the bomb where the glow is still warm and there's plenty of infrastructure and resources to work with? Scarier times.

[LibraryOgre]

I can understand some buildings being in disrepair due to the fact that it's hard to have an existing infrastructure after a nuclear war, even two hundred years after the Great War, but the interior of people's houses should not look like Satan took a crap in the middle of the living room floor in nearly every house.

You mean the lived-in houses, right? Like how everyone's actual house (not the crappy abandoned ones) is still littered with trash?

[Triaxx]

I play with FWE now, and used to use Advanced Crippling Effects which made things alot easier. Except for reavers. Nothing makes those easier except the MIRV.

[ArlEammon]

You mean the lived-in houses, right? Like how everyone's actual house (not the crappy abandoned ones) is still littered with trash?

Yes. . . Why? I mean, yeah, their houses look like "A bomb went off in your house", not a "A bomb went off in your country two hundred years ago".

[Rodin]

The one that always got me was Megaton. The bomb itself is just sitting there in a pool of stagnant water, despite the fact that they worship the damn thing. The houses are flimsy shacks made out of corrugated sheet metal and scavenged scrap. Most of the people in the town live in one common room - no rooms to themselves, just literally a single room with beds lining the walls.

Sure, the infrastructure is gone, but people should know how to build decent houses.

On my playthrough, a magnetic attraction to Deathclaws has finally done Rex in. That dog has no survival instincts whatsoever, and the 126th time he went tearing off across the map towards Deathclaws that hadn't even seen him yet was the last straw.

[ArlEammon]

The one that always got me was Megaton. The bomb itself is just sitting there in a pool of stagnant water, despite the fact that they worship the damn thing. The houses are flimsy shacks made out of corrugated sheet metal and scavenged scrap. Most of the people in the town live in one common room - no rooms to themselves, just literally a single room with beds lining the walls.

Sure, the infrastructure is gone, but people should know how to build decent houses.

On my playthrough, a magnetic attraction to Deathclaws has finally done Rex in. That dog has no survival instincts whatsoever, and the 126th time he went tearing off across the map towards Deathclaws that hadn't even seen him yet was the last straw.

Well, wood and stone would be difficult to find. . .

[LibraryOgre]

Yes. . . Why? I mean, yeah, their houses look like "A bomb went off in your house", not a "A bomb went off in your country two hundred years ago".

I think BladeOfOblivion was assuming you meant the empty houses; that's how I read his response.

[Rodin]

Well, wood and stone would be difficult to find. . .

Why?

Here's a picture of Chernobyl today: http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/bigphotos/33784558.html

There would be no shortage of timber. Heck, there would be no shortage of refined timber. For every grocery store left standing there'd be a Home Depot still standing as well.

Stone might be slightly more difficult, but it could still be quarried as easily as it ever could - the only difficulty is guarding the quarry from the mutated wildlife, raiders, etc. Even there though there's tons of stuff around - huge amounts of concrete that is no longer being used. The Capitol wasteland is one big mess of twisted steel and concrete that would quickly get re-purposed by the survivors. It's how most ancient city walls met their end - people moved in next door to them, needed stone to build a mother-in-law suite, so they just nicked it from the nearest available source.

[BladeofObliviom]

I think BladeOfOblivion was assuming you meant the empty houses; that's how I read his response.

I was. Though really, lived-in houses aren't much better off unless somebody has the knowledge and resources to maintain it. I will grant that people are weirdly lazy about basic housekeeping though. You'd think they'd pick up the debris on the floor, at least...

There's a little gem of a mod for New Vegas called Afterschool Special, in which the protagonist acts as hired help in renovating the Goodsprings schoolhouse for eventual use as a home, and I think it gives a decent idea of the effort you have to go to. Among other things, you have to carry all the large debris outside, mop the floor with abraxo cleaner and laundry detergent, board up the windows properly, mix up some concrete made from wonderglue and sand to fill the windows and keep the wasteland out, personally track down and gather up many of the furnishings, and so on. If you want lighting, you also have to trek down to Helios One for parts to install a solar panel and rewire the fallouttech hvac-equivalent yourself.

It's all quite a chore, but it's nice when it's done and there's a far greater sense of accomplishment from having built yourself a home than just finding a perfectly-preserved one in the wastes just waiting for someone to claim it.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Why?

Here's a picture of Chernobyl today: http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/bigphotos/33784558.html


Chernobyl wasn't hit by a nuclear bomb. There was a steam explosion that spread a bunch of radioactive material in the area.

[Calemyr]

I think all that raises the issue of the general mental state of the 227X survivors. Namely, a sense of cynical apathy. I think a large portion of the wasteland populace simply doesn't care, because the world is over and life is hell and no amount of primping and cleaning is going to fix the simple fact that the world they inherited is a pile of radioactive ash. Even individuals inclined to claim a territory and make it work, like Trudy and her saloon, don't actually do much to change the aesthetic of the place. Motorcycles that don't like they've run in ages are still sitting outside, a door to the storeroom is broken and the storeroom ransacked who knows how long ago, and broken windows and such. Honestly, I think the Fallout style is a mix of lack of skilled labor, lost technologies, cynical apathy, and a deep seated belief that they somehow "deserve" this world. It all adds up to the current status being the new "normal". People stepped out of the vaults and into this world and they couldn't fix it in virtually any way, so they got used to it. And their kids did as well. And their kids, until the point where the culture just kind of assumes things should be left as you find them unless you really need something. It takes someone pretty deranged, such as a prospector or a raider, to break this unenforced taboo, while the rest of the populace looks on with vague disapproval that they can't quite explain. It's kind of like the other half of Old World Blues (the syndrome, not the DLC): things don't change, thus they can't change, thus there's no point in trying to change them, thus the status quo ought to be respected. A train of thought certain to lead to derailment.

NCR is one of the only cultures that are getting past this. They are trying to take control of their lives by taking control of their environment.

Of course the real answer is that it wouldn't be Fallout if they let real life get in the way of setting the desired mood.

[Rodin]

Chernobyl wasn't hit by a nuclear bomb. There was a steam explosion that spread a bunch of radioactive material in the area.

How about Hiroshima? (http://www.youngester.com/2014/06/photo-essay-visiting-to-hiroshima.html)

My point is that plants and to a surprising degree wildlife don't care about radiation. With the radiation not an issue and no humans around to cut them down, forests take over abandoned cities very quickly indeed. Of course, in the Fallout Verse the magical properties of radiation extend to not letting stuff grow - that's why the NCR is doing research into getting viable plants.

That doesn't change the basic availability of lumber. It's all over the place, and would have been scavenged to make proper housing long ago.



Of course the real answer is that it wouldn't be Fallout if they let real life get in the way of setting the desired mood.

And boy, do we love that mood. :)

New Vegas actually did the best job, for me. New Vegas itself is relatively well maintained. Then right outside the city you have the slums, where people have largely given up hope.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

My point was, the explosion was orders of magnitude smaller. Hiroshima was also orders of magnitude smaller than what was in the Great Atomic War.

[Rodin]

My point was, the explosion was orders of magnitude smaller. Hiroshima was also orders of magnitude smaller than what was in the Great Atomic War.

...But it doesn't matter. If you posit that the radiation is so bad that trees can't live there, then the radiation is so bad humans can't either. And even if you assume what we see in the games is accurate (i.e. all plant life larger than shrubbery destroyed and never coming back), there is still huge amounts of lumber lying around from all the destroyed buildings. In Fallout 3, Springvale is still pretty much standing. Minefield is basically intact - the housing is weathered from being out there for a couple hundred years, but in terms of bomb damage it's effectively nil. Concrete is similarly easy to acquire - the highways are damaged enough to be useless for travel, but numerous enough that you could easily break them down for their component parts (particularly the raised freeways for those lovely concrete pillars holding them up).

The Fallout games look like they're set a year or two after the bomb. Long enough for people to gather into settlements (and for bandit gangs to form and establish territory), but not long enough for the larger societies to organize building towns and cities. The distance they're set into the future past the bombs dropping is basically just to give that "mist of ages" vibe. It's been the apocalypse for so long that basically historical facts have been forgotten.

I'm also not really complaining. If they had it set up realistically I'd complain that it didn't look "blown up enough". There's a certain aesthetic that they were going for, and for the most part they nailed it. It's just fun to argue about what "really" would have happened.

[Alex Knight]

Well, FO3 and FO:NV both have trees still living in various areas. Most of the trees in FO3 are stunted and warped things, but they're still there.

[DigoDragon]

The Fallout games look like they're set a year or two after the bomb.

Radiation also works differently in game then in real life. Some of the places have radioactive levels that would feel more like the game was only days to weeks after the bombs. After 200 hundred years (ish) the only dangerous radioactive sites should be the places they dumped nuclear waste.

[Rodin]

Apparently, helping the Boomers is really hard when you're a drooling idiot. Pete facepalmed his way through his lecture on Boomer history as my "special" PC wouldn't stop chiming in with hilariously wrong-headed ideas, like how he likes the sound of bullets exploding when thrown or suggesting the Boomers were cannibals. Trying to fix the solar panels? Sorry, that's got a massive repair skill check of...um...twenty. Still couldn't make it, and I sold the repair magazine to help pay for a Super Sledge. He tried to get the kids on his side by giving them radioactive gum. In his words: "Radio-what now?" The doctor looked at him in horror when he suggested he had the bestest medical training ever. The only thing he could do was to clear the ants out of the power station, because if there's one thing he's good at it's squishing ants with a giant hammer.

In the end, I just bought masses of missiles from the Gun Runners and donated them. I think it cost me close to 10K to do it, but I wasn't exactly using bottle caps for much else by that point anyway.

[DodgerH2O]

Touches like that are why I loved the first few Fallout games, glad to see New Vegas keeps it up.

Anyone tried a Pacifist run in New Vegas?

[Triaxx]

@Rodin: I believe there's no skill check to salvage parts from the damaged arrays at Helios One, and those can repair with no skill check on site. Unless the 20 points are at helios and I've forgotten.

[Ailurus]

Apparently, helping the Boomers is really hard when you're a drooling idiot. Pete facepalmed his way through his lecture on Boomer history as my "special" PC wouldn't stop chiming in with hilariously wrong-headed ideas, like how he likes the sound of bullets exploding when thrown or suggesting the Boomers were cannibals. Trying to fix the solar panels? Sorry, that's got a massive repair skill check of...um...twenty. Still couldn't make it, and I sold the repair magazine to help pay for a Super Sledge. He tried to get the kids on his side by giving them radioactive gum. In his words: "Radio-what now?" The doctor looked at him in horror when he suggested he had the bestest medical training ever. The only thing he could do was to clear the ants out of the power station, because if there's one thing he's good at it's squishing ants with a giant hammer.

In the end, I just bought masses of missiles from the Gun Runners and donated them. I think it cost me close to 10K to do it, but I wasn't exactly using bottle caps for much else by that point anyway.

If you haven't already, you should visit Helios 1 with this guy. There's some fun dialogue in store for him there too.

[Jayngfet]

I think all that raises the issue of the general mental state of the 227X survivors. Namely, a sense of cynical apathy. I think a large portion of the wasteland populace simply doesn't care, because the world is over and life is hell and no amount of primping and cleaning is going to fix the simple fact that the world they inherited is a pile of radioactive ash. Even individuals inclined to claim a territory and make it work, like Trudy and her saloon, don't actually do much to change the aesthetic of the place. Motorcycles that don't like they've run in ages are still sitting outside, a door to the storeroom is broken and the storeroom ransacked who knows how long ago, and broken windows and such. Honestly, I think the Fallout style is a mix of lack of skilled labor, lost technologies, cynical apathy, and a deep seated belief that they somehow "deserve" this world. It all adds up to the current status being the new "normal". People stepped out of the vaults and into this world and they couldn't fix it in virtually any way, so they got used to it. And their kids did as well. And their kids, until the point where the culture just kind of assumes things should be left as you find them unless you really need something. It takes someone pretty deranged, such as a prospector or a raider, to break this unenforced taboo, while the rest of the populace looks on with vague disapproval that they can't quite explain. It's kind of like the other half of Old World Blues (the syndrome, not the DLC): things don't change, thus they can't change, thus there's no point in trying to change them, thus the status quo ought to be respected. A train of thought certain to lead to derailment.

NCR is one of the only cultures that are getting past this. They are trying to take control of their lives by taking control of their environment.

Of course the real answer is that it wouldn't be Fallout if they let real life get in the way of setting the desired mood.

The problem is that a lot of sites don't really make sense even in this context.

I mean look at the casinos. The wallpaper is ripped and everything is grungy for no reason. You'd at least expect House to have cleaned the places out first.

[Rodin]

@Rodin: I believe there's no skill check to salvage parts from the damaged arrays at Helios One, and those can repair with no skill check on site. Unless the 20 points are at helios and I've forgotten.

It's something like 50 Repair to do it on the Boomer base with no parts, and 20 Repair if you're salvaging the panels from Helios One. It's a Repair check so low that most characters can do it without any training whatsoever, it's just because my base stats were so hilariously low that I couldn't do anything. Very Easy hacking was beyond me for the same reason.

And yeah, I know about the dialogue at Helios One. :smallbiggrin: That dialogue and the talk with Arcade Gannon were two of the reasons I did the run in the first place.

[DigoDragon]

I mean look at the casinos. The wallpaper is ripped and everything is grungy for no reason. You'd at least expect House to have cleaned the places out first.

Maybe grunge is the new chic for casino style?
Or perhaps House is hooked up to an older Windows OS and doesn't care about the wallpaper because he's only got artifact-laden jpegs?

(Yeah I know, silly joke. Don't care, no shame) ;)

[Calemyr]

The problem is that a lot of sites don't really make sense even in this context.

I mean look at the casinos. The wallpaper is ripped and everything is grungy for no reason. You'd at least expect House to have cleaned the places out first.

Isn't the rebirth of the casinos a rather recent event? Pearl, matron of the Boomers, is pretty clear about the lights from Vegas and the the securitron patrols are things that happened in her lifetime and not early on at that. The three families are still in their first generation as casino masters, as the White Glove Society makes clear.

There is, to my knowledge, no ability in the setting to make wallpaper. It's a lost art. They can't re-paper their walls even if they want to. Besides which, as I said before, there's a "Good as old" mentality where the grunge is viewed as the modern standard rather than visible deficiency bordering on a moral failing. They simply don't see it as a bad thing.

House, for his part, is very good at figuring out what people want and what people need. As such he focuses on key points of security, entertainment, and an iron grip on the flow of caps in his domain. Caps are another good example: he doesn't try to resurrect the dollar or find a system that fits the old world mindset, he just takes the caps as they're being employed and works with them. He wouldn't waste resources on creating an aesthetic people don't really care for. Instead he paints an attractive backdrop using neon lights, thematic attractions, chaotic noise, and that greatest gift given to mankind which is hope. Even with rotting wallpaper, New Vegas is still cleaner and prettier than anything outside its walls.

[druid91]

I'm gonna support Calemyr in this one. If you look at the roadway signs headed into NV you notice that someone has at least gone up there and painted over the old billboards to 'update' them. So they're CAPABLE of at least that much. But then, why do they stick with the names of long dead business's? Why be the "Silver Rush" or "Gamorrah"

Well. The building's there. Got signs outside the city that with a little tweaking will be perfect. The whole setting is full of people who just refuse to take the 'extra mile.' With the Boomers in Nellis, the NCR, BoS, and Caesars Legion being the few who actually get up and make an effort of it. And even then, while the BoS has their fancy bunker that's all prettied up, they're apathetic in other ways. Caesars Legion is prettied up in an attempt at deliberate cultural indoctrination. The Boomers might have their act together in Nellis but they refused for years to go retrieve the one thing outside of Nellis they wanted.

As for Mr House, he doesn't seem to bother with acting unless it's needed. If you plant Emily's bug, he disables it. Acknowledges that you did it. And then moves on because he still needs you to do things for him. As mentioned, he has no problems using Caps, even though the idea would probably be a bit ridiculous to him.

[Rodin]

I've found a new favorite way to take out the Van Graffs.

Attack the door guard. When the rest of the guards come piling out, turn a flamethrower on them. I did so much damage to their weapons that I broke every last Plasma Rifle, leaving them standing around wondering what hit them as they burned to death.

Of course, the way I did it in my previous game wasn't much less fun - high stealth + Super Sledge to insta-gib each one without any of the others noticing what's wrong - including the guards who are actually facing each other at the time.

"Hey, did Frank suddenly explode into meaty chunks? Meh, must just be my imagination."

[Sharoth]

I will have to try using a flamethrower sometime. I usually tend to just "Shoot them in the head".

[Calemyr]

I will have to try using a flamethrower sometime. I usually tend to just "Shoot them in the head".

I'm tempted to just play a pyro character now. Mentally unhinged by brain damage, the incinerator used by the boss of the hotel in Primm is a thing of beauty to him - a fondness spiraling into a brutal, beautiful obsession. He will collect fire based weapons of any variety (including Gehenna from GRA and the flamer pistol from Project Nevada) and laugh manically as the world burns around him when in combat. Ultimately get him into power armor and just let him slowly incinerate everything in his path. Probably wouldn't even care if his rampage cost him quests... When a big boss battle is on its way, try to find a "Do you believe in magic" music video to play in the background to complete the experience.

Dang it, that's tempting. I always play lightly armored snipers with a talent for speechcraft. It would be a bit of a change for me to say "screw stealth, screw subtlety, screw diplomacy" and just walk in, armored like a tank, chucking incendiary grenades like confetti, a heavy incinerator on one shoulder, a heavy flamer on the other, and a shihkebab on the hip, humming tunelessly as he pushes his way through opposition like smoke...

[Mobius Twist]

I did a "kill everything with fists" character before and it's perfectly doable. You don't end up losing out on quite as much XP as you think. And the money savings is easily transferred into immense amounts of stimpacks.

[Sajiri]

Okay, I havent really played this game since the first weekend I bought it on console the other week. I made the mistake of looking at mods while I was bored and now Im wishing I got it on PC despite half the reason I got it for console was to avoid getting into mods again (I get way too addicted and spend more time modding a game than actually playing it I think)

Is the game worth modding beyond just graphical stuff? I obviously didnt get very far so it wouldnt be a big deal to restart, and I bought it really cheap already so its not like Im out of much money if I buy it again for PC. Mods are the only reason I would buy a game on PC over console

[ArlEammon]

Okay, I havent really played this game since the first weekend I bought it on console the other week. I made the mistake of looking at mods while I was bored and now Im wishing I got it on PC despite half the reason I got it for console was to avoid getting into mods again (I get way too addicted and spend more time modding a game than actually playing it I think)

Is the game worth modding beyond just graphical stuff? I obviously didnt get very far so it wouldnt be a big deal to restart, and I bought it really cheap already so its not like Im out of much money if I buy it again for PC. Mods are the only reason I would buy a game on PC over console

I've seen some balanced, lore friendly weapon's mods that make sense.

I really want to see Skyrim swords in New Vegas. ;)

[Sajiri]

Shockingly, when I check EBgames website, the PC version is completely out of stock. I...have never seen that before. Is the game on steam? (on work pc atm, steam site is blocked so I cant check) Seems a physical copy if they would have had it is $30AUD, not sure what it would be on steam if it's there.

Kinda different to what I normally play, since I prefer to stick to magic and dragons hence why I always played elder scrolls but not fallout, but the little I played was a nice change

[LibraryOgre]

Shockingly, when I check EBgames website, the PC version is completely out of stock. I...have never seen that before. Is the game on steam? (on work pc atm, steam site is blocked so I cant check) Seems a physical copy if they would have had it is $30AUD, not sure what it would be on steam if it's there.

Kinda different to what I normally play, since I prefer to stick to magic and dragons hence why I always played elder scrolls but not fallout, but the little I played was a nice change

It is on Steam.

[Calemyr]

Shockingly, when I check EBgames website, the PC version is completely out of stock. I...have never seen that before. Is the game on steam? (on work pc atm, steam site is blocked so I cant check) Seems a physical copy if they would have had it is $30AUD, not sure what it would be on steam if it's there.

Kinda different to what I normally play, since I prefer to stick to magic and dragons hence why I always played elder scrolls but not fallout, but the little I played was a nice change

It's very worth it, in my book. Mods I'd strongly encourage are:

Project Nevada: Adds and modifies so much crap you simply wouldn't believe. A more interesting implant system (complete with some really interesting implants), all kinds of new gear (including old or modded weapons pulled in and balanced to work together), and some really cool gameplay modifications, such as your crosshair expanding and shrinking based on your current accuracy, the ability to open locked chests with explosives, the ability to spend AP to go into bullet time or sprint, and a grenade hotkey. Really makes the game so much better. Really, after Project Nevada, there's not much need for other mods...

Weapon Mod Expansion: Adds in and reshuffles mods so that pretty much every weapon has access to 3 mods, including unique ones or DLC additions. Includes weapon models for any combination of mods you can use.

Weapon Mod Interface (Might not be the right name): Add and remove mods from a weapon easily. Works wonderfully with Weapon Mod Expansion.

Companions:
Willow: I've tried a number of mod companions, but Willow still takes the cake. Good writing, nice voice acting, and an awful lot of localized banter, plus some cool little side quests.

The ARES Project: Her actual name is Andrea, an android (well, gynoid) who was originally designed to "entertain" male clients, then reprogrammed as an airforce instructor. Bounces between being your loyal follower and outright flirting with you. Pretty interesting character, fairly solid, but to improve her you have to do pretty every unpleasant dungeon in the game.

Delilah: Doc Mitchell's assistant. Possibly the Chosen One's daughter? Either way, she's pretty solid all around. Her original voice recordings are somewhat low quality, so there's an alternative option on the Nexus. Good but not quite on par with Willow. She uses the "Type3 Alice" body, which makes her look very scrawny. Unlike Willow and Andrea, however, she's not meant to be a potential love interest, just a doctor in training, looking to get out into the world and gain some experience. As someone already going out there, it works well to bring your own personal doctor with you.

Niner: Male modded companions are a rarity. Niner is well voice acted and interesting, with a personal plot that follows the same path as you (Goodsprings down to the outpost, over to Nipton and Novac and then to New Vegas). The only real problem with him is that his story ends in New Vegas, rather abruptly with a "To Be Continued" message box. Very much worth mentioning (if for no other reason than being male!), but not the first one I'd download. That's still Willow. Maybe Andrea, if I want to play machinist. Speaking of which:

RobCo Certified: Make the most of your repair/medicine skill. Provides a (very large) number of perks that allow you to repair destroyed robots, build your own (in a cave) with a box of scraps, or collect cadavers and build your own Lobotomites and tech zombies. There are an awful lot of options in this mod, but they're not free. You only get so many control points (based on int, gear, and perks) and each of your minions requires a number of them to be active (more points required for more powerful minions).

I'll add some more later if you're interested, but really if you just use those first three mods, New Vegas becomes ten times better, easily. And the mod companions I listed all add to the experience pretty well.

[Sajiri]

Maybe I will buy it off steam once I get home tonight. I can see after this week Im going to need to spend it sitting down anyway <_>

I wasnt entirely sure of the type of character I was making before...or what half the stats and terms meant. I guess that gives me something to look up while it downloads

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Add in my grumpiness of "If it's been 200 years, why has no one emptied this grocery store, yet?", and you get some of my angst about FO (despite generally liking the games).



I think all that raises the issue of the general mental state of the 227X survivors. Namely, a sense of cynical apathy. I think a large portion of the wasteland populace simply doesn't care, because the world is over and life is hell and no amount of primping and cleaning is going to fix the simple fact that the world they inherited is a pile of radioactive ash. Even individuals inclined to claim a territory and make it work, like Trudy and her saloon, don't actually do much to change the aesthetic of the place. Motorcycles that don't like they've run in ages are still sitting outside, a door to the storeroom is broken and the storeroom ransacked who knows how long ago, and broken windows and such. Honestly, I think the Fallout style is a mix of lack of skilled labor, lost technologies, cynical apathy, and a deep seated belief that they somehow "deserve" this world. It all adds up to the current status being the new "normal". People stepped out of the vaults and into this world and they couldn't fix it in virtually any way, so they got used to it. And their kids did as well. And their kids, until the point where the culture just kind of assumes things should be left as you find them unless you really need something. It takes someone pretty deranged, such as a prospector or a raider, to break this unenforced taboo, while the rest of the populace looks on with vague disapproval that they can't quite explain. It's kind of like the other half of Old World Blues (the syndrome, not the DLC): things don't change, thus they can't change, thus there's no point in trying to change them, thus the status quo ought to be respected. A train of thought certain to lead to derailment.

I think the first and most important thing to keep in mind when considering the state of the world in Fallout, especially 3+NV is that their world isn't based on our world. FO happens in after a war ended a a near future world that was based on a 1950's vision of the future. Every building is damaged, but still recognizable because that's how people visualized things.

That said, in my head cannon there was post apocalyptic world war almost imeadiatly after the smoke cleared from the bombs dropping. In most regions two major factions (or sets of factions) emerged; a small but well equiped faction made up of the survivors of cities, bunkers, and military facilities too small or secret to get bombed vs. a more populous faction from the less hard hit rural areas. This conflift escalating to the point that the city dwellers used whatever WMDs were left of against the centers of rural power helps explain the evenly bombed look the world has. This war also reduced the population to the point that many locations remained unlooted untill the post vault opening era.


NCR is one of the only cultures that are getting past this. They are trying to take control of their lives by taking control of their environment.

Ceasar kind of is too, he just feels that a lot of what's been built since the apocalypse needs to be torn down first. I agree with, I think it's House, that Ceasar's Legion is a cult of personality and that sadly any good that it could theoretically do in the future will be lost when Ceasar dies and a less charismatic and idealistic general takes his place. Also remeber that Ceasar came from the Children of the Apocalypse who in addition to their Red Cross like activities are more interestingling providing some children with liberal educations. These three factions seem to exist on a spectrum; preserving something of the past without building anything new (the same could be said of BoS and Enclave, yes Enclave has some new stuff but they seem to be tweeking rather than inovating), trying to pick up the pieces and build the best world they can with it, and trying to burn it down and start over.

There's also the Institute, but they're all too busy drinking Mohito's and banging sexbots to be relevent.

On an unrelated note I recently finished a highest difficulty, zero deaths, pacifist run. I never attacked a human, supermutant or non-feral ghoul.

[BladeofObliviom]

On an unrelated note I recently finished a highest difficulty, zero deaths, pacifist run. I never attacked a human, supermutant or non-feral ghoul.

...How? Or are we talking more "It doesn't count if someone else kills them on my orders" pacifism?



EDIT: Assuming "no intentional killing" defines pacifism here, Yes-Man isn't an option because you have to kill House, House isn't an option because you have to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel (which AFAIK is impossible to do without causing injury since I don't think there's a way to trigger the self-destruct and warn them before it blows), Caesar requires you to kill Oliver. NCR also requires you to kill House.

Technically you can avoid directly killing House by just pulling him out and leaving him there, but that's kind of a stretch.

[Rodin]

Technically you can avoid directly killing House by just pulling him out and leaving him there, but that's kind of a stretch.

You could argue that it was done accidentally. That was certainly the case on my first run through the game with a Speech-focused character. I was going for taking over the Wasteland as bloodlessly as possible (although I wasn't particularly playing a pacifist - self-defense was completely allowed, as was killing someone for the greater good when diplomacy wasn't an option), and when it came to blowing up the Brotherhood of Steel I rebelled and pulled the plug. My intention was just to disable him so that he could be dealt with later, and I didn't realize that pulling the plug would polish the old coot off anyway.

So, it's certainly plausible that a post-apocalyptic delivery boy wouldn't have any idea what the consequences were. Probably wouldn't get you out of it in a court case though.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

...How? Or are we talking more "It doesn't count if someone else kills them on my orders" pacifism?

I know the layout of the game really well and ran away a lot. I had followers who protected me from random encounters which there may have only been one of , but I never sought out a fight including.


Some of these instructions are just for xp, I haven't done a save/load intensive version of the run to find out how much less xp/money this could be managed with.
1. Do the Tutorial, including the schoolhouse/graveyard.
2. If you want to, do all the side quests to equip Coodsprings to fight the powder gangers. They should win with one casualty at most while you twiddle your thumbs.
3. Walk past Primm
4. Go west and fight feral ghouls to avoid the highway patrol buiding with Viper gangers outside.
5. Return to highway through the gas station filled with scorpions.
6. Do the ant quest from the Outpost
7. Go deep south and fight lots of scorpions then enter Nipton from the South
8. Be nice to the Legion
9. Go up the hill south of the obvious road with a scripted ambush, look for Bradely's Shack; free loot.
10. Turn North till you pass the Ceasar's Legion Safehouse then turn NorthEast.
11. You may reach east/west road that passes through searchlight withough incident or you may encounter the old nuclear test site. It's a couple chairs surrounded sandbags with a sheet metal roof over it. This area is crawling with feral ghoul reavers and glowing ones. Either kite them into the nearby herd of bighorners or hop onto the sandbags then onto the roof if you've been hoarding explosives and high calibre rounds. After clearing this area hop down and grab a pair of Authority Glasses from the observation deck.
12. Follow the road west, you can do the searchlight dogtag quest if you like.
13. Give the Raided Farmstead a wide bearth as it has a large scripted raider attack.
14. Turn North towards Nipton in the same place you would if you were coming from tho opposite direction; at the overpass.
15. There is a scripted event of a caravan consisting of two Traveling Merchants, two Mercenaries, and several Brahmin being attacked my four legion. Pray for the caravan to win with zero or one casualties. The odds of this aren't too bad, something about the way it's programed often leads the Legion to bug up and attack one or two at a time and get mowed down. Even if they all attack they seem to be worse at focus firing and they sometimes kill a Brahmin.
16. Follow the merchants, they should be able to beat the viper ambush. If the Legion win, they sometimes meet another group of legion and slaughter the same viper ambush. If the merchants barely win, I guess follow them and run for Nipton while they get killed by the Vipers. Alternatively I think you could go west around that area; unteted.
17. Decide if you feel Boone's quest fits your morality. You'll need a follower eventually, but Veronica and Rose can be aquired in a more pacifist manner.
18. Optional: Repconn. This can be done as a pacifist if you're stealthy enough to pickpocket the jailer. Alternatively, you can lie to bright and tell him the demons are gone or mouth of to Harland who's AI isn't programmed to avoid "his" traps causing him to suicide coming after you. I just cleared the ferals out for xp and loot then washed my hands of the mater leaving the quest incomplete.
19. Helios One is a pacifist quest.
20. Hug the Helios One fence to avoid another scripted ambush on the road and fight your way through a field of ants.
21. Rejoin the road by the billboard where you meet the guitar player.
22. Go to Boulder and negotiate a setlement.
23. Use the East entrance to Freeside to avoid being attacked by freeside thugs. You'll need to hire a King if you want to do the Garretts, Kings ad FoA quests.
24. Credit Check/Talk to House.
25. Speech check to convince Benny not to have his guards attack you.
26. Do Bunker; don't destroy the bots.
27. Let Ceasr Kill Benny.
28. Befriend the Boomers
29. How little we know has a solution where the killing is done for you.
30. At this point you have to either betray/disable House or blow up the Brotherhood Bunker. I choose to destroy the bunker, because my character felt that Mr.House wasa better administrator than himself.
31. Find the bomb and report it causing the president's speech to be cancelled.
32. Fast Travel Aroud to get companions if you didn't have them already.
33. The Battle of Hoover Damn. This is the one point in the game where it is in fact necesary to have companions do your killing for you. The first three segments are mostly cleared by having Secuitrons, befriending the Boomers, and having high faction with the NCR, but your companions will kill a few stray legionairies. After you cross the dam you will need to watch your companions fight the elite guard and you may need to run around a bit. Make sure you have your human companion in great gear.
34. Two 100 Speech checks, then roll credits.




You could argue that it was done accidentally.

One certainly could, but this is a true pacifist run. The only bending of this rule is on Hoover Dam past the point of no return. I decided to try it after a "pacifist-lite" run similar to yours.


Steel I rebelled and pulled the plug. My intention was just to disable him so that he could be dealt with later, and I didn't realize that pulling the plug would polish the old coot off anyway.

Ya, I always thought it would be nice to have a House/Yes Man Hybrid ending where you negotiated with him from a place of power. Mr. House is a genius and tempering his wraith rather han destroying him would probably be the best thing for the world. On the other hand he makes a really good case against the BoS. West Coast BoS really aren't doing anyone any good and they probably would throw their lives away attacking you.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

EDIT: Assuming "no intentional killing" defines pacifism here, Yes-Man isn't an option because you have to kill House, House isn't an option because you have to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel (which AFAIK is impossible to do without causing injury since I don't think there's a way to trigger the self-destruct and warn them before it blows), Caesar requires you to kill Oliver. NCR also requires you to kill House.

Technically you can avoid directly killing House by just pulling him out and leaving him there, but that's kind of a stretch.

Hmmm kind wish I'd seen this edit before I spent all that time typing up a step by step how to avoid all the ambushes.

To clarify; I killed plenty of people with menu options while killing nobody with the core FPS/RPG game mechanics including sing minions (outside of All or Nothing).

Post Script:
There's a tracked ingame stat of "humans killed". I'm willing to bet neither of the above increases it. :smallcool:

[DodgerH2O]

It's been a long time but IIRC I managed to have my Courier get through without killing anyone or anything directly or by orders to another NPC. I RP'd her as not only a pacifist but a somewhat naive optimist, she had every intention of just finding House to have an actual face-to-face talk and was traumatized by the realization of what she'd done to him by managing to have said talk.

There are a lot of quests you can't complete but stealth and lots and lots of stimpacks and running away take care of the rest.

I'm thinking I want to try again, I seem to remember the NCR folk get rather miffed on several occasions when you complete their tasks without violence.

[Triaxx]

Theoretically, if the mod to fix the Brotherhood survival option worked, you could go pacifist with House.

Also, I fully endorse Calemyr's mod suggestions, with the caveat that after a little while Willow started to grate on my nerves. I much prefer Delilah.

It's called the Weapon Mod Menu. But it's now a must have in my list.

I also suggest:Weapon Retexture Project, which is exactly what it says, though I've found a few weapons which simply don't behave correctly, and each install changes which one it is.

JIP Companion Command and Control, which gives you a list of your active companions on the left hand side and lets you issue orders without going through the wheel in the middle of combat.

Selective Fire, JIP has one, as does Pelinor. It lets you switch from full-auto to say three round burst, or even semi-auto fire. Or set your double barreled shotgun to fire both barrels at once. I'm partial to Pelinor's version, only because I've always used that one.

Those are the minimum I play with.

If you want more content, grab the entire Someguy series. Just remember, the level suggestions are a little low.

[Sajiri]

Well I'm downloading the game on steam now. I goofed and forgot to set it up to download last night, so depending on how long this takes I might have to pause it if someone else is complaining of lag when they wake up.

Speaking of, Im not fully awake @_@ Think I'll look into some of those mentioned mods later on

[Calemyr]

Well I'm downloading the game on steam now. I goofed and forgot to set it up to download last night, so depending on how long this takes I might have to pause it if someone else is complaining of lag when they wake up.

Speaking of, Im not fully awake @_@ Think I'll look into some of those mentioned mods later on

I should note that Andrea is only available at Fort Nellis in the northeastern corner of the map, so she's not exactly an "early" ally.

Willow's voice can be a problem for some people (can grate on the nerves, but I like it).
Delilah's alternate voice is quite good, but she isn't as lively as Willow. Willow will talk your ear off, though, so that can also be a good thing.

[Triaxx]

I don't mind the voice, but the incessant singing gets me, and I don't have the heart to ask her to stop. :D

On the other hand, if you take both, and get the dogs, you get an unstoppable fighting force. Seriously, I've seen Lady tear the throats out of Deathclaws. (Yes, I make them invincible.)

[Sajiri]

I should note that Andrea is only available at Fort Nellis in the northeastern corner of the map, so she's not exactly an "early" ally.

Willow's voice can be a problem for some people (can grate on the nerves, but I like it).
Delilah's alternate voice is quite good, but she isn't as lively as Willow. Willow will talk your ear off, though, so that can also be a good thing.

I probably wont take any female companions. Its rare in games if I play a female that I will take anything but males (and vice versa) when it comes to mods. I blame the fact that most mod companions in any game a female and look like a supermodel or a loli girl.

[Triaxx]

In that case, you might like Someguy's Russell. Male companion, kind of ugly. Pretty awesome though.

[Calemyr]

In that case, you might like Someguy's Russell. Male companion, kind of ugly. Pretty awesome though.

Oh, right! He was in the next batch I was thinking of playing next time around. Someguy's work is always awesome, though. I did really enjoy his New Vegas Bounties mod, for one thing.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I don't mind the voice, but the incessant singing gets me, and I don't have the heart to ask her to stop. :D

On the other hand, if you take both, and get the dogs, you get an unstoppable fighting force. Seriously, I've seen Lady tear the throats out of Deathclaws. (Yes, I make them invincible.)

If you're collecting women and dogs; there's a Sunny Smiles Companion mod and she brings her dog.

[Archonic Energy]

I have 100% completion and have over 450 hours in game...
and I still haven't loaded a single mod.

well, unless you count DLC. which is just an official mod.

it's strange i see the value of PC gaming as mostly being the customisation but i generally prefer playing the game as the developers intend it... unless there's an iron man suit mod... then all bets are off.

[DigoDragon]

unless there's an iron man suit mod... then all bets are off.

Heehee, we all have our price. ;)

[Eldan]

I have 100% completion and have over 450 hours in game...
and I still haven't loaded a single mod.

well, unless you count DLC. which is just an official mod.

it's strange i see the value of PC gaming as mostly being the customisation but i generally prefer playing the game as the developers intend it... unless there's an iron man suit mod... then all bets are off.

Wanna bet I can find one?

Here's one that, from the description, is proably largely cosmetic.
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/46669/?

[Avilan the Grey]

I need to continue my "lucky girl" run. I just walked ahead to get Veronica, now going to help the flying ghoulies. Then go back to Prim and break the casino.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, I love playing NVB. He's actually working on three right now. He gave up on Firebase Zulu, presumably for the time being, only because it's such a massive undertaking.

I actually ran into a weird problem with my FNV game, and had just updated to User Interface Organizer. It worked fine for a bit, then suddenly I couldn't use JIP CC&C. A new game fixed that though, so it must have been one of those annoying update things.

[Ogremindes]

I have 100% completion and have over 450 hours in game...
and I still haven't loaded a single mod.

well, unless you count DLC. which is just an official mod.

it's strange i see the value of PC gaming as mostly being the customisation but i generally prefer playing the game as the developers intend it... unless there's an iron man suit mod... then all bets are off.

Maybe you should look at the JSawyer mod (http://fallout.gamepedia.com/JSawyer). It was made by the lead dev, after all.

[Archonic Energy]

Maybe you should look at the JSawyer mod (http://fallout.gamepedia.com/JSawyer). It was made by the lead dev, after all.
hmm a few changes mostly difficulty related... and changes to the karma system.... OOOOH! it moves all the pre-order stuff to secret locations cool!

Wanna bet I can find one?

Here's one that, from the description, is proably largely cosmetic.
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/46669/?
ooooooo. urge to re-install... rising

Heehee, we all have our price. ;)
that we do.

[Triaxx]

That reminds me. For the vanilla game, Courier's Stash Package Selector (http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/44171) from the Nexus is helpful. It lets you pick which of the packs you want to acquire when the game starts. So if you only want the Caravan Pack, or the Mercenary Pack, you can enable only those two and leave the others turned off. Very handy.

[Chen]

Wanna bet I can find one?

Here's one that, from the description, is proably largely cosmetic.
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/46669/?

An Iron man suit that actually let you fly and had weapons (even if just visual mods) build in would be awesome. I suspect the game isn't made for flight though so it probably would screw up a lot of visuals. Still you just gave me something to search for when I get home tonight :P

[Gaelbert]

An Iron man suit that actually let you fly and had weapons (even if just visual mods) build in would be awesome. I suspect the game isn't made for flight though so it probably would screw up a lot of visuals. Still you just gave me something to search for when I get home tonight :P

There's a mod that lets you fly around in a Vertibird. It can occasionally be a little buggy but it's still really cool and shows that flight isn't an impossibility for modders.

[Eldan]

You'd have to do new animations, but it would be possible. There's already a few pretty extensive re-animation mods.

[Calemyr]

When it comes to transportation, the one mod I simply need to have is the hoverboard. There's just something really amusing about coasting down the interstate with "Big Iron" playing in the background. It's fast (but not too fast) and stylish, and it serves as a weapon to make it easy to equip, unequip, mount and dismount. Runs on Fusion Batteries, but consumes them slowly enough that you'll rarely notice at all. Additional bonus points for being a "quest item", meaning I get to take it into Dead Money - the Sierra Madre makes a wonderful skate park. It's only real failing is that it's not party friendly - you'll leave friends in the dust. But for a solo game, it's Oh, and you can't jump while on it, which would have made it much more fun but minor obstacles don't really get in the way.

J33x Motorcycles is really good as well, and it even has these tokens you can give up to four other companions, and they'll get their own bikes they'll ride with you in a "flying V" formation. You can pick one of a half dozen paint jobs and equip your bike with dual miniguns, laser miniguns, flamethrowers, or rocket launchers. An awful lot of fun, though the way it handles group driving can be a bit ridiculous and the sound can really get monotonous. I usually don't make much use of it. But, if you feel like playing a biker gang, this mod is quite perfect.

The XRE Cars mod I want to like, but there a problems in the way they handle, the engine sounds, and the really annoying bugs where cars are often planted face first in the ground (going for a bumper crop, are we?). Not really group friendly (someone can sit safely enough in the passenger seat, but let them sit on the bed of a pickup truck and they'll go flying at the first bump), and honestly does its job a little too well - the ease of transportation shrinks the world more effectively than fast travel does. There's quite an impressive variety of cars (most inspired by models and posters found in-game). They tend to lack the proper feeling of mass and seem incapable of sticking to the ground. Also, the mods that add extra car models (such as a winnebago , a variety of humvees, or a flatbead transport truck with a fully equipped tent in the back) don't get along well - only one will work, the others will give you an error message when you try to get into them - an issue that only pops up after you've paid for them (although most secondary cars are free). The cars are configurable in several ways, including toggled health and gas (allowing enemies to destroy your car or for you to get stranded with an empty tank), and the gauge GUI (gas, gear, speed, etc) can be modified for size and location on the screen. Also it makes a lot of changes to the worldspace, adding robot manned service stations along the roadside, a car dealership south of Nipton, and filling just about every parking lot with purchasable cars (buy the key fob matching the license plate of the car you want from a nearby merchant). And while, yes, I am griping a lot about it, I actually do like this mod. A lot, in fact. It adds a lot of life to the world, if only by filling up places that used to be empty and making it feel like some technology still works, and frankly after the hundredth trip to Vegas, making the world feel smaller isn't exactly a bad thing. You just have to be aware that there is an awful lot you'll need to overlook or overcome in order to enjoy a feature that really should have been in the game to begin with.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, XRE Cars could have really benefitted from a much larger surface area to drive around in. Which makes me wonder how much effort it would take to put them into the Capital Wasteland from Tale of Two Wastelands. I think it'd be much more fun there.

[DigoDragon]

The XRE Cars mod I want to like, but there a problems in the way they handle, the engine sounds, and the really annoying bugs where cars are often planted face first in the ground (going for a bumper crop, are we?).

Well there is precedence (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Cadillac_Ranch.jpg) for such a farm. :smallbiggrin:


The hover board sounds neat. One of the local TV stations played Back to the Future II recently, so now i'm picturing a paired mod to give you McFly's jacket to wear.

[Brookshw]

I'm doing something wrong with my mods and wonder if someone can tell me what it is. Trying to run warhammer 40k conversion mod (for fallout 3). It's the fallout 3 goty version if that makes a difference. Downloaded the files and texture packs. Put mesh and texture folders in data folder, put all of them in and updated to newest versions. Updated the .ini file, turned off the other .esm files at loading screen so its just the tau and warhammer mods checked, fired up the game and it doesn't seem to be working right. Some item names have changed (autopistol instead of 10mm pistol) but no skins have changed and none of the new perks are in the menu. Tried firing up the Fallout mod manager, placed the load order to have warhammer and tau .esm above the fallout 3 file. Still nothing. O haven't modded a fallout game before but thought I was doing this as per the instructions. Anyone know what's going wrong?

[Kesnit]

Some item names have changed (autopistol instead of 10mm pistol) but no skins have changed and none of the new perks are in the menu. Tried firing up the Fallout mod manager, placed the load order to have warhammer and tau .esm above the fallout 3 file. Still nothing. O haven't modded a fallout game before but thought I was doing this as per the instructions. Anyone know what's going wrong?

Fallout has to be the top of your load order

[Calemyr]

Fallout has to be the top of your load order

There should be an option in the Fallout Mod Manager called "Archive Invalidation". Make sure it's turned on.

Archive Invalidation is a list of things resources the game knows to use your files over what's in the BSA. It's a bit of a pain in the butt, but the mod managers usually have a solution for it. If FoMM doesn't have one, look into Nexus Mod Manager or simply look up "invalidation" at the Nexus for other clever solutions.

[Brookshw]

Fallout has to be the top of your load order

Hmmm, tried swapping it but no change in game. Tried launching via FOMM and steam. I'm a bit lost, seems like it knows something is there but I'm not quite flipping the switch right.

Edit: launching a new game via FOMM and it sees the AA, Necron, Tau, Eldar options during the gene projection opening but crashes when trying to display them. ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated! is active. Quite odd. Might just wipe everything and reinstall the game and mods from scratch but if anyone has an idea what's missing, or what I might have screwed up in the process, any insights are appreciated. Strange that it's sort of half loaded, makes me think the meshes and textures are in the wrong places.

Edit edit: resolved