Revan versus The Exile?

[Shadow of the Sun]

This is a sincere attempt to find the general consensus on whether the Exile or Revan would win from the KotoR series.

Now, we are using the canonical released information, so male Revan, female Exile. Light Side Revan, Light Side Exile. Let's say a duel between the two.

For now, let us just ignore builds that you had in the games, because they will only complicate matters.

[Gralamin]

I'd have to go with Revan.
While in the game, Exile can reach a higher level, I consider this as part of game mechanics. Besides its possible to finish both games at levels within the first games level range.
The Exile, in some ways, has more power, as she is a hole in the force.
Revan is known to be a brilliant tactician, and will outsmart the exile.

In the end, Revan reminds the Exile where her loyalties lie, and she works together with Revan.

Edited in a spoiler tag...

[Maxymiuk]

Let's see...

Revan fights his once-apprentice Malak within the control chamber of the Star Forge among suspention tanks with captive Jedi inside while outside rages an equally epic battle between the Republic and Sith fleets, the victory hanging upon how Bastilla uses her Battle Meditation. Malak gets his ass handed to him, the Sith get soundly trounced, and Revan and Bastilla get off the Star Forge moments before Republic bombers blow it to smithereens.

On the other hand we have

the Exile on a planet haunted by the ghosts of a bygone war, beating up an old one-armed woman who has to aid herself by animating a bunch of lightsabers. Instead of killing her however, our Exile gets to listen to a vapid "I tried to kill you because I loved you" and then runs away because the planet suddenly decides to implode.

Yeah, Revan wins on account of being badass. :smallamused:

[Pronounceable]

I've always felt that the canon must be inverted: female Revan, male Exile.

And win on what? Combat? That'd be Revan. Force power? Revan again. Leading armies? Revan of course.

I do like KotoR 2, and by extension Exile more though.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Finally, one that makes sense.

Anyway, Revan. Exile has the neat
Hole-in-the-Force
thing going, but Revan would be able to strategize around it. Hell, Revan is basically Thrawn a couple millennia early. And besides, Exile only became the messed-up super-powered mamajama he is because Revan kicks so much ass. Sorta.

Plus, they finished Revan's game. The last chapter of KOTOR2 is, last I checked, still in we-shipped-the-beta purgatory.

[Dragor]

Leading armies? Revan of course.

Not necessarily. The Exile is said a number of times to

Make people act to his/her will, due to her 'voidness', whatever their opinion. She could easily turn foes to friends, and her conviction could send a lot of unwilling people to their death, but they'd do the best they could with no qualms for the Exile.

Yes, Revan's a badass, and would probably win. But I stick to my guns to the spoiler above.

[Mewtarthio]

Well, the Exile can go past level twenty...

I think the best way to do this is to look at how their enemies react to them:

Revan:
"Send out every soldier we've got! Even the apprentices!"
"You think that will stop him?"
"Of course not! It's just to buy some more time!"

Exile:
"Why does Traya always like you better? Waaaah!"
"You are so beautiful, Exile. Your fate is in your own hands, now."

...Yeah, I imagine the Exile would look a little better if they'd actually finished the game, but there's no way (s)he could possibly stand up to Revan. Also, the Exile may have the advantage in pure charismatic leadership talent, but Revan's the better tactitian. In the end, that's what's going to win the day.

[Pokemaster]

Exile:


Walking Force vortex capable of sucking out people's wills and leech off their Force powers.


Revan:


Figured out how to turn the Exile into a walking Force vortex capable of sucking out people's wills and leech off their Force powers, and probably knows a way around it.


Gonna have to go with Revan on this one.

[Sir Enigma]

I'm going to disagree with the majority here and say that it's the Exile - given that the OP said that this is a duel between the two. Revan's biggest strength that's getting brought up here is tactical skill; however, he/she isn't famous for being a duelist, but a military tactician. In the Mandalorian Wars, Revan was a brilliant military commander, but this is only useful if you have an army. Granted that he/she was very skilled and powerful alone as well, but the Exile,

due to being a "wound in the Force", was becoming powerful beyond any normal Jedi - as the Jedi Masters tell you once you've tracked them all down, the Exile is getting steadily more powerful from all the death he/she was causing along his/her quest (I forget their exact quote, but that was the gist of it)

I think that this explains why the Exile could go to levels beyond 20, although this is my own speculation. Still, in a one-on-one duel, I think that the Exile is sure to win.

Give them armies, on the other hand, and the Exile doesn't stand a chance :smallbiggrin:

[Maxymiuk]

From the mechanical standpoint, of course the Exile wins. By the end of the game he has a 10 level advantage on Revan, which translates into better hit points, BAB, and a wider array of Jedi powers, not to mention abilities granted by the PrC's. Add to that the pimped out gear, which is much more powerful than Revan's equipment due to the increased versatility and the ability to construct custom enhancements at a workbench. Add to that the lightsaber with 3 extra upgrade slots in comparison to Revan's lightsaber. Add to that the personal crystal you find that grows more powerful as the Exile progresses in levels. Add to that the whopping bonus to stats from achieving the apex of the Light side of the Force. Add to that the fighting stances, with at least two specifically designed to grant a big advantage in a lightsaber duel.

Mechanically, the Exile wins hands down. However, the OP asked us to ignore builds, so that leaves us with deciding by badass factor. :smallamused:

[Deepblue706]

Exile wins in a straight-up fight, as the Exile is more powerful...

But Revan is a better leader, and would win if the two had armies at their command. Actually, Revan might win if he just had a way of using things in his environment to his advantage. He's smart, but smart is only useful if you have enough time to think.

Regardless, Revan trounces the Exile as far as cool-ness goes.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So, DeppBlue, does that make Revan Batman?

[Deepblue706]

In a sense, yes. Except Batman always has gadgets ready, so he's always at least somewhat prepared.

One can argue Revan, being as smart as he is, would be prepared as well, but last time I looked he didn't carry any shark repellent.

[blackout]

Thog. Period.

[the_tick_rules]

my best exile would beat my best revan beyond recognition. i had AC of about 50 with my exile.

[Shadow of the Sun]

As I said, no builds.

[Timberwolf]

Thog. Period.

Thog wins with sheer awesome, but Revan runs him so so close.

Anyway, if the 2 fought, I say Revan. Largely because I didn't really like the Exile, but also because Revan is a proper badass.

[Logic]

I prefer Revan, however, it has been said that the canon Exile is "One of the greatest lighsaber weilders ever known."

I think in a lightsaber duel, The Exile Wins. In any other engagement, it should be Revan. Since we know so little as to what happens to Revan after the story ends, it is possible that he spent alot of time advancing and gaining experience just as The Exile did.

[Pyre]

I always got the feeling that Revan had stronger force powers, game mechanics aside. Maybe just me. Still have to give it to Revan though.

[Krellen]

I've always felt that the canon must be inverted: female Revan, male Exile.
Me too. They also shouldn't have cut the tragic female Revan ending from KOTOR: Revan stays dark, but Carth redeems her at the last minute, and instead of fleeing the Star Forge, the two remain upon it as it is destroyed.

On topic: It depends on when the duel happens. Pre-KOTOR, Revan all the way (Revan was the most promising Jedi the Council had ever seen, after all) - sabre or Force, she wins.

Post-KOTOR, pre-KOTOR2 still Revan, obviously, since the Exile isn't even a Jedi at that point.

Post-KOTOR2, the Exile. After hunting down the Jedi Council and destroying Darths Nihilus, Sion and Treya, the Exile's mastery of the force - and force bonds - is nearly unmatched. Revan may have, previously, been the most promising student, but after "healing" from his Force-Wound, the Exile picked things up almost instinctively (as several of the masters you kill or redeem mention). In all likelihood, at this point there wouldn't even be a duel: the two would form a Force Bond instantly and Revan would follow the Exile wherever he led.

Overall, it's Revan, but the sheer domination a post-KOTOR2 Exile achieves makes me give it to the Exile.

[Om]

Meh. I liked the Exile more. As to who would win in a fight... who cares?

[SolkaTruesilver]

It's preponderous (yish, I haven't many opportunity to use that word in a sentence... I hope it fits) to think that they would fight against each other. The Exile was a badass before Mandelore, and he become even more so during KOTOR2.

While Revan simply was the badassest jedi ever before KOTOR, and simply gained back this statut after.

So.. Even if one was Light and the other Dark, I don't see them fighting. They both know that they have too much to loose. The Light-sided one could go fight Sith, while the other one would go conquer the galaxy.

In a case of Both-Light, they both go fight Sith.

It's just a Both-Dark that leaves me wondering...

Anyway. In any case of simple "friendly sparring", since no one has a stake in the battle, I'd say the results are unimportant.

[Shadow of the Sun]

It would be a duel. You know, an example of jedi skills.

However, although both are incredible badasses, I think Vader's apprentice could wipe the floor with both of them, because he is inhumanely powerful in the force. Like, moreso than the Exile.

[Tom_Violence]

I went with the Exile. Largely for reasons already mentioned, and I remember Kreia saying that she was the most powerful Jedi she'd ever trained, etc.

@Dragor - Let's not forget that Revan had to send people away to make them fall, suggesting that it wasn't exactly something that he could do on his own.

[Gralamin]

1. Kreia didn't train Revan.
2. I Think Revan was to busy to do it himself most of the time.
3. I think that, no matter what happens in the duel, The Exile would be loyal to Revan.

[Mewtarthio]

1. Kreia didn't train Revan.

Nope. The Jedi Masters on Dantooine did.

Twice.

[Sir Enigma]

If you unlock enough of Kreia's secrets with high influence, she'll tell you that she was one of Revan's teachers - don't remember the exact line, but I think she also said that Revan came to her after falling to the dark side before the events in KOTOR 1.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I've always felt that the canon must be inverted: female Revan, male Exile.

This is because everyone wanted a female Revan but they made him male. They then assumed that people wanted a female main character to made the Exile female despite the fact that no one cared.

It's a cooler scene if there's a woman under the mask when Revan removes it. It's more surprising since you assume he's male.

Exile would win in a fight because Revan has a level cap. Ability to suck the souls from dead people around you in order to pretend to use the force pwns poor miss "I'm was sure I put my memories in this star map".

[Maxymiuk]

This is because everyone wanted a female Revan but they made him male. They then assumed that people wanted a female main character to made the Exile female despite the fact that no one cared.

It's a cooler scene if there's a woman under the mask when Revan removes it. It's more surprising since you assume he's male.


Actually, if I recall KotOR 2 correctly, it establishes Revan as female.

The two big hints are Atton referring to Revan as female right after you escape Peragus, and the scene somewhere towards the end (or was it when Nihilus attacks Telos? I'm a bit hazy on that) when Carth contacts you and tells you that "if you ever do see Revan, tell her that Carth Onassi is still waiting for her."

[Shadow of the Sun]

That is only if you set her to female. According to Lucasarts, Revan is male.

[Gralamin]

Actually, if I recall KotOR 2 correctly, it establishes Revan as female.

The two big hints are Atton referring to Revan as female right after you escape Peragus, and the scene somewhere towards the end (or was it when Nihilus attacks Telos? I'm a bit hazy on that) when Carth contacts you and tells you that "if you ever do see Revan, tell her that Carth Onassi is still waiting for her."

The first time you talk to Atton you can set Revan's Gender in the game, as well as a few other things.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Yeah. This is Star Wars. No one gives a monkey about the Cannon.

[Dragor]

The first time you talk to Atton you can set Revan's Gender in the game, as well as a few other things.

Truth. You can establish whether Revan was light side/dark side and Revan's gender. I didn't find this out until I played again as well- they should have just added a menu at the start.

[Om]

Truth. You can establish whether Revan was light side/dark side and Revan's gender. I didn't find this out until I played again as well- they should have just added a menu at the start.Nah I though that was extremely well done. A nice way to establish what had occurred in the previous game without resorting to... well a menu.

[Dragor]

Nah I though that was extremely well done. A nice way to establish what had occurred in the previous game without resorting to... well a menu.

It was quite hard to find for the people who just wanted to grab Atton by the collar and move on- although his first few lines if you're female are brilliant.

[Krellen]

That is only if you set her to female. According to Lucasarts, Revan is male.
Since when did the fans care what Lucas had to say? He lost all rights to dictate his universe long ago. :smallbiggrin:

It seemed to me that the designers of KOTOR2 had assumed a female Revan with the light-side ending. That's what Atton assumes, anyway, unless you correct him (honestly, female light-side Revan makes for the best story, as far as I'm concerned.)

Oh, and as others have mentioned, Kreia did train Revan, so the Exile is, actually, stronger than Revan. Assuming you accept all of KOTOR2 as canon (there is, after all, some debate there.)

[Om]

It was quite hard to find for the people who just wanted to grab Atton by the collar and move onWell yeah... if you're just clicking madly through the lines to get moving then you're bound to miss something. But then maybe I'm just in the small minority of people who actually read before clicking? :smallwink:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, and as others have mentioned, Kreia did train Revan, so the Exile is, actually, stronger than Revan. Assuming you accept all of KOTOR2 as canon (there is, after all, some debate there.)
If you take everything Kreia says as truth. I haven't gotten that far in KOTOR2, but I did have it spoilered for me, and I believe that's something she says herself.

[Krellen]

If you take everything Kreia says as truth. I haven't gotten that far in KOTOR2, but I did have it spoilered for me, and I believe that's something she says herself.
Given Kreia's character, I find the likelihood of her lying to the Exile - especially after the Exile has built up enough influence to get that bit out - very slim. She ever sought to manipulate with the truth, not lies.

[the_tick_rules]

Does the fact Revan maxes out at level 20 and by the end of the game the exile is level 28-29 count? Cause then my vote is for Exile still. Otherwise what is the difference between them? other than the exile's unqiue force powers. But still my vote remains exile.

[Tom_Violence]

Besides Kreia mentioning herself that she trained Revan, I'm sure some of the other Masters make some reference to it, if you pay close attention. And Scion does as well, I think. It was one of those things that came up so much in the game I kinda took it as writ that that was the case.

[idioscosmos]

Add to that the lightsaber with 3 extra upgrade slots in comparison to Revan's lightsaber. Add to that the personal crystal you find that grows more powerful as the Exile progresses in levels.

Mechanically, the Exile wins hands down. However, the OP asked us to ignore builds, so that leaves us with deciding by badass factor. :smallamused:

I dunno. If you get the double bladed lightsabre from the evil apprentice guy in the underwater city, don't change the crystal in it and add the "% stun" crystal to it you get a double bladed lightsabre that for some reason has a 100% chance to stun (they still save, but...yeesh guys. Even level 20 will miss that once in 20 hits, which if you maxed out flurry...). Once that happens if you're level 8 scoundrel level 12 Guardian you're going to get in at least 4 sneak-attack hits....

[idioscosmos]

OK, the implication I got from the first game was that they decided to retrain Revan as a Jedi because he had a crazy-powerful connection to the force and they needed all the help they could get. The "tactician" part was incidental. They (the Jedi Council) wanted to be able to point his power at Malak.

The Exile is/was a force of nature that grew stronger the more you resisted it. There's actually a line where it's said something along the lines of "surely you've noticed that each death, each confrontation has made you stronger". I kind of got the impression that the Exile is a tool - a hole in the force that will get big enough to swallow the "True Sith" (whatever they are) that Revan went off to fight during the course of the second game.

[The Geomancer]

Why does Revan have to be lightside? Revan on the darkside was completely badass. The Exile always seemed kind of whiny to me, something about her character just rubbed me the wrong way.

[idioscosmos]

Why does Revan have to be lightside? Revan on the darkside was completely badass. The Exile always seemed kind of whiny to me, something about her character just rubbed me the wrong way.


Because the KOTOR games darkside options weren't evil, they were just randomly redneck Jerry Springer show psychotic. I mean seriously - where were the Machiavellian subtle-evil villian type options (think "Palpitane" not "OMG I'M ANGSTY ANIKIN THE BABYKILLER"). No...can't have those. They were always choices along the lines of "I need this guys ID. Do I A.) Persuade him its in his benefit 'cos they're bad (LIGHT SIDE), B.) Pay him for it (NEUTRAL - no shift in alignment), or C.) KILL EVERYONE IN THE BAR OMGWTF! GNAP! GNAP!

[Wojiz]

Exile, hands down. He was more charismatic, had a much deeper background, took on foes much more powerful than the ones in K1 (A Sith Lord proven weaker than Revan, his apprentice and a bounty hunter versus three Sith lords, one of whom killed 3 Jedi Masters simultaneously) could exist even without the Force, proving his mettle, and had the 'nads to go back to the Council and turn in his saber. They were both tactical geniuses, Revan the Heart of the Force and the Exile the Death of it, but I'd take Exile.

[Tormsskull]

Revan was cooler, had a better story, was featured in a better game, and was overall better. But because of the nature of marketing & the human psyche, whatever is in number 2 must trump number 1, and thus the Exile would win in a duel.

But if the question was who was cooler it would be Revan.

[Irenicus]

I believe Revan was supposed to be far more powerful personally.. it's just that the Exile had the power to command the loyalty of others.