How does Decipher Script work fluffwise?

[ben-zayb]

I mean, is there some evidence of languages in d&d having siimilar etymological connection to each other to make it easier?

How do you look at a page containing random unfamiliar scribble and figure out the gist of it?

Should more ranks represent you having enough experience to be capable of identifying more language? Is there a ratio of skill rank to language decophered, then?

How does Speak Language and languages known (not) factor to this check?

Really, any kinds of musing about this skill is welcome.

[Flickerdart]

Wow, there's a skill I completely forgot existed. When was the last time anyone took this?

[ben-zayb]

Wow, there's a skill I completely forgot existed. When was the last time anyone took this?

Yeah, thought it sounds great on an Indiana Jones type of character, but I just can't figure out how to RP the nitty gritty.

[Afgncaap5]

Wow, there's a skill I completely forgot existed. When was the last time anyone took this?

I take it, though it's never really come up for me. However, it's saved the life of some players in my games at least once. They needed to figure out what an Egyptian message said before a candle burned out and the statue in the room came to life to kill them.

The way I work the fluff is that Decipher Script is a combination of knowing how alphabets are supposed to go together and a general understanding of the way languages work even if you don't know a specific language. I might not speak Sylvan, but I've probably seen Sylvan writing before, and can tell the difference between that weird symbol and the other one that looks like it if the wall has a chip in it. Effectively, it's like how a person who's studied Latin can often get the gist of things written in French, Spanish, Italian or the other Romantic languages.

For Draconic, I'd assume that the person has probably seen a few simple words or phrases in Draconic, understands one or two symbolic meanings ("Catch on fire" might be a more optimistic phrase for dragons than for humans, for instance, and might be a description of gaining power, or just having your plans get set in motion), and can cobble together enough of a meaning to get the gist of what's said... probably. Ultimately it's the kind of skill that makes a lot more sense for a Wizard or Rogue than it does for a Cleric of Fighter. Lots of general training coming together for a specific purpose. (Or a specific porpoise if it's a message written in Aquan. ...sorry, I should've restrained myself there.)

[Doctor Awkward]

Yeah, thought it sounds great on an Indiana Jones type of character, but I just can't figure out how to RP the nitty gritty.

The same way you decipher messages and languages in real life.

You use pattern analysis, much like solving a cryptogram (which is also covered under decipher script, incidentally).
"If we assume this word means this, then these words would all mean..." then you see if what you translated makes sense. And then apply it to the rest of the message and see if it holds up.

Identifier words also help.
"Well if this word means this. Then these symbols might be letters. If they mean this letter and this letter..." and so on. It's basically the same process.

Having a point of comparison also helps.
The Rosetta Stone is basically a specific legal decree that was written in three different languages, one of which was Egyptian Hieroglyphs. Since it was basically the same message in all three different languages, it became the key to finally translating hieroglyphs.

It is often an extremely long and arduous process, especially in the case of languages no longer spoken, and all knowledge has been lost.


The Star Trek TNG episode Darmok does a great job of exploring this process when the Federation is attempting to establish communications with the Tamarians. Their language is spoken entirely through metaphor and references famous historical and mythological events of their cultures past. So even though the universal translators could decode the individual words and phrases, they were meaningless because they lacked the correct context. The example they used in the episode was if a human were to say, "Juliet on her balcony", to signify love or romance. But it wouldn't mean anything to you if you had no idea who Juliet was, or why she was on the balcony.

[Ashtagon]

Put it this way. My knowledge of Maltese is patchy. So let's take a random paragraph from a fairy tale....

Toninu hekk ghamel. Is-serp beda jwerzaq malli rah. Kemm irrabja malli lemah is-sejf tas-seher f'idu:

Translation:

Tony did so.
Toninu - proper name (Tony)
ghamel - make, do (v)

The serpent began to ??? ???.
serp - serpent
beda - begin (v)
werzaq - ? (v)
malli - ???
rah - ???

How he ??? the magical ??? in his hand.
kemm - how (adv)
rabja - ??? (v)
lemah - ???
sejf - ??? (n)
tas - of the (= ta' il-)
seher - magic (n)
id - hand (n) (-u suffix = his)
f' - in (= fi)

Decipher Script then represents pattern recognition and common sense about what the missing words might be. malli is probably an adverb, for example.

[Deophaun]

I take it, though it's never really come up for me. However, it's saved the life of some players in my games at least once. They needed to figure out what an Egyptian message said before a candle burned out and the statue in the room came to life to kill them.
Seems like a poor puzzle that requires someone to have invested resources in a skill that will never likely be used in a normal campaign or the party dies.

Which is another reason Decipher Script is terrible.


(In truth, i have taken five ranks in it, but just for the UMD synergy bonus on an Persistificer)

[LooseCannoneer]

I interpret it to mean a bit like Knowledge (Languages). So, for example, the player knows useful words in a wide variety of languages, a bit like a person in the process of learning a new language. If they make their check, they know enough of the important words to figure out what it means. If they fail, but its close to succeeding, I'll likely tell them a few words they knew, and a bombed roll means that you can't figure out anything.

[Eloel]

I interpret it to mean a bit like Knowledge (Languages). So, for example, the player knows useful words in a wide variety of languages, a bit like a person in the process of learning a new language. If they make their check, they know enough of the important words to figure out what it means. If they fail, but its close to succeeding, I'll likely tell them a few words they knew, and a bombed roll means that you can't figure out anything.

I'd say a completely bombed roll means they translate it wrong :smallbiggrin:

[Deophaun]

I'd say a completely bombed roll means they translate it wrong :smallbiggrin:
That's what the Wisdom check is for.

[ben-zayb]

Thanks for the plenty awesome insights! So from what I understand, the skill appears to work more off pattern/syntax recognition/analysis, with a good helping of symbolic/metaphoric/culturally specific contexts.

One thing I'd point out is that unlike some RL languages that might be descended or evolved from an "ur language", I'm not sure if that applies in Core d&d languages (not FR), which may present trouble in context and syntax analysis. The closest would be shared alphabets, and the fact that there is an apparent Common language for maybe everyone with a language.

Seems like a poor puzzle that requires someone to have invested resources in a skill that will never likely be used in a normal campaign or the party dies.

Which is another reason Decipher Script is terrible.


(In truth, i have taken five ranks in it, but just for the UMD synergy bonus on an Persistificer)Thanks for the insightful comment that is in no way off-topic at all!

[Deophaun]

Thanks for the insightful comment that is in no way off-topic at all!
Insightful comment: There's a hidden message in your OP that I found through many nanoseconds of deciphering.

Really, any kinds of musing about this skill is welcome.

[ben-zayb]

Insightful comment: There's a hidden message in your OP that I found through many nanoseconds of deciphering.How was the message hidden, though? The OP was pretty straightforward, and you indeed made no offtopic post. Maybe it's my congratulatory remark that you should've made a Decipher Script check on?

Or should that be a Sense Motive?

[PaucaTerrorem]

I interpret it to mean a bit like Knowledge (Languages). So, for example, the player knows useful words in a wide variety of languages, a bit like a person in the process of learning a new language. If they make their check, they know enough of the important words to figure out what it means. If they fail, but its close to succeeding, I'll likely tell them a few words they knew, and a bombed roll means that you can't figure out anything.

I like this. Next character I make is talking the DM into allowing it.

[LooseCannoneer]

I like this. Next character I make is talking the DM into allowing it.

It makes a lot more sense. The only problem as a DM is that the logical continuing of my logical Decipher Script fix is to add stacking bonuses based on the content. For example, if you Decipher something about fire, it would make sense that you figured out other fire-related words.

[Afgncaap5]

Seems like a poor puzzle that requires someone to have invested resources in a skill that will never likely be used in a normal campaign or the party dies.

Which is another reason Decipher Script is terrible.


(In truth, i have taken five ranks in it, but just for the UMD synergy bonus on an Persistificer)

They actually had an in-game prop I'd made, a book with numerous possible interpretations for hieroglyphs. They used decipher script to narrow down which phrases were more likely in the context of the previously existing bits of information. Theoretically they could've solved it without a single Decipher Script check through a lengthier process of trial and error. I'd say the check removed about half their workload.

All in all, a fun evening, even if the people watching us play at that Long John Silver's looked at 'em funny when they started chanting the limerick out loud to get the magic door to open.