Bard 2nd & 3rd level Spell choices

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Awhile ago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?396829-Low-level-Bard-Feat-ASI) I was asking about feat choices for a bard. Jump ahead to get to the bit about spells.
The character is currently lvl 2. I can see the build going to two distinct directions:

Valor Bard Build
+2 Dex at lvl 4, stick to light armor, main weapon is a heavy crossbow, longbow at 6th level.
As funds are acquired, get a shield and a rapier, hope for magic armor or possibly invest in half-plate, take Warcaster at 8th level.

I get decent AC and at-will damage with this one. I thought about taking Warcaster at 4, but I've got a whole 20GP to my name and have none of the equipment yet. If I find myself with a windfall before hitting 4th level I'll need to re-evaluate.

Lore Bard
+2 Cha, or take SpellSniper for Eldritch blast, or possibly Inspiring Leader
I don't need much in terms of new equipment with this build. It just needs levels.
My damage (And the party's damage, because Bardic Inspiration) suffers. But I get extra skills, defensive BI, and can pick up powerful spells like Revivify or Fireball at 6.

About Spells
The bard spell list is tricky (check it out (http://salty-ridge-7989.herokuapp.com/)), considering I'll only really have about 2 spells per tier. I can't decide what to take. I want to cover a lot of bases and really want to get the most out of my limited spells. I mainly want 1) Party Support 2) Crowd Control 3) Some AoE damage. I'll mostly be relying on skills and the other party members for out of combat problems.

My current spell list:
Cantrips
Minor Illusion
Vicious Mockery
First level Spells
Healing Word
Fearie Fire
Heroism
Dissonant Whispers
Cure Wounds

I plan on swapping out Cure Wounds for a higher level spell as it's generally better for me to use Healing word and keep attacking.

So what do you think I should be taking for spells? Of note: There's a wizard in the party. There's maybe some new party members showing up at the next session, including a cleric, since two groups are becoming one due to losing people.

2nd level spells of interest
Blindness/Deafness
Cloud of Daggers
Heat Metal
Hold Person
Invisibility
Lesser Restoration
Shatter

3rd level spells of interest
Dispel Magic
Fear
Hypnotic Pattern
Leomund's Tiny Hut
Major Image
Stinking Cloud

Many of these spells are concentration, which needs to be planned around.

[Chronos]

Heat Metal is really good-- Yes, it takes a full minute to deliver all of its damage, but that damage is quite high for the spell level, and meanwhile the target is taking disadvantage on attack rolls. The only drawback is that your target needs to be carrying metal, so the effectiveness depends on how often you face armored foes.

Skip Leomund's Tiny Hut. It's a great spell, but if you have a wizard, she probably already has it, and she can cast it without spending a precious spell known (or even spell prepared) on it, and it's not something that really benefits from two people casting it.

Hypnotic Pattern is a pretty good save-or-lose, with the added advantage of no verbal component. At low levels, the most reliable way of shutting down casters is Silence, so that can be a pretty big deal.

[Taejang]

I second Heat Metal. Lesser Restoration can be dropped if another party member (like a cleric) has it, but you probably want at least one person with it for those pesky situations that come up. I'd avoid Dispel Magic unless the wizard doesn't pick it up.

I'd recommend Sleep at lvl 1 (don't remember how hard it is for bards to change out spells). It sounds bad on paper, but you can incapacitate multiple low-level creatures and later get automatic criticals when you deal with them. Particularly great for taking prisoners, but you can also take down a ranged enemy or two without penetrating the wall of melee monsters protecting it, and early spellcasters typically have few hit points and are thus susceptible.

Which style of bard you pick should probably depend on the party formation. If you need another front line character, Valor Bard + shield and rapier is the way to go. If not, you can pick Valor and do ranged with the crossbow/longbow, or you can do Lore for the skills and awesome spell selection. At that point, unless there is a pressing need, I'd personally go with the one that fits the character's persona best, since both sides can be quite effective.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

I'd recommend Sleep at lvl 1 (don't remember how hard it is for bards to change out spells).

I had sleep at lvl 1, then swapped it for Faerie Fire. The wizard already has it and has been using it to great effect just as you've pointed out.

[xyianth]

My current spell list:
Cantrips
Minor Illusion
Vicious Mockery
First level Spells
Healing Word
Fearie Fire
Heroism
Dissonant Whispers
Cure Wounds
All good early choices, although I'd have dropped cure wounds for sleep. (the extra 0-4 hp per casting is hardly worth it)


I plan on swapping out Cure Wounds for a higher level spell as it's generally better for me to use Healing word and keep attacking.
Good plan. Heroism is another spell that is great early game, but loses potency later on. You could safely trade it for something higher level as well.


2nd level spells of interest
Blindness/Deafness - Excellent spell since its a great debuff and doesn't require concentration.
Cloud of Daggers - Give this a pass, its too small of an AoE to really matter and its damage output is poor.
Heat Metal - Excellent spell; this is game over to someone in metal armor.
Hold Person - Decent spell, though you have to be mindful of the initiative order to get the best mileage out of this.
Invisibility - Although this is a good spell, I'd recommend you leave it to the wizard.
Lesser Restoration - Also a good spell, but I'd recommend leaving this to the cleric.
Shatter - This is an ok AoE damage spell, but damage is generally better left to other party members.

3rd level spells of interest
Dispel Magic - Someone needs to have this in the party. If that someone is you, take it and don't look back.
Fear - Pick either this or hypnotic pattern, they target the same save, occupy concentration, and apply similar amounts of control.
Hypnotic Pattern - Pick either this or fear, they target the same save, occupy concentration, and apply similar amounts of control.
Leomund's Tiny Hut - This is a great ritual, just not for you. Leave this to the wizard.
Major Image - If your DM is going to actually let you use illusions to their full potential, this can be ok. I actually prefer phantasmal force over this since it targets int saves.
Stinking Cloud - This is a decent AoE control, but hypnotic pattern does essentially the same thing without poison immunity being an issue.

Many of these spells are concentration, which needs to be planned around.

Some additional spells to consider:
1st level spells
Tasha's Hideous Laughter - This is a great debuff that remains effective even when cast as a first level spell for the entire game.
Sleep - This has no save, and works on current hp totals. This is an invaluable debuff in the early game and a great subdue spell when you need to take prisoners mid-late game.
Thunderwave - This is a pretty decent AoE effect that can be cast from any slot.

2nd level spells
Enhance Ability - This is a tool for outside combat use. It may be best left to the wizard however if you are interested in other spells.
Phantasmal Force - This is an illusion that can cause harm and targets int saves (which appears to be the lowest stat on average)
Suggestion - This can work as a social tool outside combat and a mini-dominate in combat.

Magical Secrets (only useful for lore bards)
Animate Dead(3) - Skeleton archers can provide a great boost to damage output, and any damage they receive is damage the rest of the party didn't take.
Aura of Vitality(3) - Best healing/slot level in the game.
Call Lightning(3) - Essentially a supercharged cantrip for increased damage potential when it applies
Conjure Animals(3) - Summon 8 CR 1/4 beasts to gang up on foes or just act as party transport/walls of fur.
Counterspell(3) - Tell enemy spellcasters to sit down and shut up. Amazing spell.
Crusader's Mantle(3) - Feels similar to the old Dragonfire Inspiration trick from 3.5.
Fireball(3) - You want an AoE control spell, well here you go. No control effect works better than death.
Haste(3) - Best buff spell in the game.
Mass Healing Word(3) - Turn a sticky situation around by bring all downed party members up without using your action.
Plant Growth(3) - Large AoE control. It can take 20' of movement per square inside this effect.
Revivify(3) - Death sucks, just say no.
Mirror Image(2) - no concentration required makes this a great buff spell.
Misty Step(2) - Teleportation is always fun.
Pass Without Trace(2) - Never fail stealth checks, no, not even then.
Spiritual Weapon(2) - Bonus action attacks made with spellcasting ability, at range, without concentration.
Bless(1) - The number of situations this humble spell can help is astonishing.
Hex(1) - Useful for damage boosts, more useful to impose disadvantage on social checks without allowing a save.
Find Familiar(1) - Familiars are amazing little utility tools, you will always find a way to use one.

This are just my recommendations, you are off to a great start and seem to have a good sense of what works and what doesn't already.

[Taejang]

Some additional spells to consider:
...
Thunderwave - This is a pretty decent AoE effect that can be cast from any slot.
We had this with a druid who never used it. Turns out she was almost never next to enemies and when she was, there was always an ally in the way or a better action to take. Perhaps other folks got better mileage out of it, but we dropped it as too situational for real value.


Magical Secrets (only useful for lore bards)
...
Find Familiar(1) - Familiars are amazing little utility tools, you will always find a way to use one.

I definitely second this idea. Familiars should be had by every character who can get one.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Thanks for the great feedback guys. Based on it, I'm leaning towards dropping Cure Wounds for either Sleep or Tasha's Laughter, and for lvl 2 spells getting Heat Metal and Shatter. Shatter mainly because the only AoE damage spells on the entire Bard list are Thunderwave and Shatter , and I want 1 spell on my list for that purpose.

I'll be sure to confer with the Wizard to keep overlap to a minimum, and if the cleric doesn't join after all I may have to focus more on those spells.

[Chronos]

One point in favor of Stinking Cloud is that it gives you some variety in the saves you're targeting. Most bard spells offer Wis saves, so Stinking Cloud gives you an option to use when fighting someone with that as a strong save.

[zingbobco000]

Under Construction

As a level two I'm assuming you want help going into level three. Now here are the first + second level spells which I will rate using a color chart. Side note, I am not a theory crafter, I have played bard for a bit getting him up to level 5 so I have been doing a bit of testing with the different spells there are.

Gold is almost mandatory, you should try and take this to be the most optimal you can be.
Sky Blue/Turquoise is a very good pick, though not gold because there are many other different choices.
Blue is a good pick, though it definitely has some flaws or there are better options.
Black is an average pick, not the greatest but there are worse ones.
Purple is a below average pick, one that you probably won't use unless all of your other spells are red and even then the party will probably be pissed at you for not being an improvement.
Red is a really bad pick, you shouldn't cast this or pick this unless your campaign is different from the three main parts of D&D.

1st level spells:
Animal Friendship Can be an ok pick but is very situational and you should really just leave it to the druid unless you're planning a campaign in the wilderness.
Bane Quite good debuff on the BBEG and some of his powerful minions but once combat is done the debuff is done, is also concentration which limits your casting abilities if you want to keep this spell up.
Charm Person Can be good but you should have a high enough charisma to persuade them into being your friend.
Comprehend Languages I don't really know how this would be useful for someone like you, using this kind of spell as a spell known is definitely not worth it. Leave it to the cleric or the wizard. If the party is all out of wizards and clerics and your playing in some kind of campaign where common is nonexistent or something like that then this would be
Cure Wounds is ok, but it really slows down your capabilities and healing word has much better uses. This spell could be used as a nice out of combat heal. Overall much better for the cleric to take it.
Detect Magic leave it to a prepared caster, you shouldn't normally waste spells known on rituals such as this.
Disguise Self can backfire heavily and you're honestly much better off using a disguise kit.
Dissonant Whispers Take this, take this, and take this. This stays good for almost the whole game and the best part is that you don't even need to scale it (though it does do a slight bit more damage if you do)! Cast it on the BBEG while he's surrounded by your BSFs and then BOOM AoOs for everyone! Damage on fail and half damage on save is just icing on this cake.
Faerie Fire this is also amazing as well, advantage a pretty decent amount of enemies for a first level spell over either most of combat or until your concentration ends. If it was not concentration based I would definitely rate this gold.
Feather Fall this is a very situational spell and I recommend not having it on your spells known list, can come in handy sometimes though.
Healing Word this is a great quick-heal and can be used in tight situations where the cleric is not on their feet or sometimes you just feel like you need the extra heal. You should not be the party healer however and if you choose that spell make it clear to the party that you are not the main healer and that someone should make a cleric if there is not one already.
Heroism quite nice amount of temporary HP nice to cast on the BSF to have them get a poor man's regeneration. It is concentration based however.
Identify only point of this is for cursed objects which your DM shouldn't hand out on a regular basis, much better left for the wizard or even just a shopkeep.
Illusory Script why do you want this again? To make your writing invisible? But then nobody can hear your stories of great valor and victory, but seriously, when do you want to hide your writing? Please PM me an instance where you (while playing) cast this spell as a bard, I would like to see it.
Longstrider it's an ok buff that scales decently, but most of the time, 25-30 ft. should be enough and if it's not then your party should have some kind of ranged weapon, or just dash.
Silent Image this spell can range anywhere from Gold to Red depending on how both you and your DM interpret it, this should be the same with most illusions. However if your DM is on the gold side of the spectrum, I highly recommend getting this spell for free advantage by hiding in a corner and placing a wall around you, making you hidden every single turn and then you, knowing that the illusion is obviously a fake, shooting arrows out from behind said wall.
Sleep this spell is basically huge button that says: "Combat Over" at levels 1 - 3 but by levels 4 - 20 it will do next to nothing, which includes if you decide to scale it making it purple. I recommend switching it out for something different at higher levels.
Speak with Animals Same as Animal Friendship but even worse as you just speak with them in words such as: "Food" or "Scary Big Thing" it is a ritual but seriously guys, leave it to the druid. Turns to Sky Blue if you are in a wilderness campaign.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter is quite a nice spell at lower levels but by the time you get hold person should be replaced. Basically a poor man's hold person, nice to use on the BBEG though. I am envisioning some nice out-of-combat uses as well.
Thunderwave sometimes your bard gets hooked into melee, when that happens: BOOM *bard skitters away from enemies*, decent damage nice AoE and the 10 ft. shove is good as well. However this doesn't always come into play too much as you are a bard and don't always go into melee combat. It is also a CON save so many tough enemies can be resistant to it.
Unseen Servant Situational at best, some possible fun out-of-combat uses though.

2nd level spells:
Animal Messenger situational at best, at worst will never see the light of day.
Blindness/Deafness it really doesn't get much better, only reason for it not being gold is that there are some other competing choices. Other than that, amazing debuff, they find it hard to target you and then they have disadvantage if they do target you, and you have advantage against them!
Calm Emotions turns a combat encounter into a talking one, this would seem like a viable option as you the bard with something around +7 (from expertise) in a talking stat should easily be able to have them stop fighting except for the fact that all of the enemies have to fail the save, which probably won't happen.
Cloud of Daggers just. Don't. You make a small little square that shouldn't effect most of the battlefield and then the enemies just move out of the way only taking an average of 10 damage. It is also concentration based so that makes it even more worse. Just don't take this spell.
Crown of Madness is an ok spell, very useful against the BBEG so that he starts killing all of his minions instead of you guys. It is possible to get a save and have this spell do nothing however so it's not good, it also is highly situational and the DM will eventually figure out what your spell does and have all the enemies move away. It's also concentration which prohibits you from using certain spells.
Detect Thoughts kind of useful in interrogations, but you already have a high charisma so it really shouldn't be that bad. If you're really into it though it is quite good if your charisma doesn't appear to be working however I would leave it to the wizard.
Enhance Ability it doesn't effect attack rolls, just checks it doesn't effect saves either, so it's only use is if your in a talking encounter or if you want to give the BSF even more HP then normal.
Enthrall this is just plain bad, they have advantage on a wisdom save against you and even if they fail all it does it allow them to make it a bit harder to see the rogue who really should already be able to pass something around a DC 10 - 15 almost always, really not worth it at all.
Heat Metal this is also very good and a competer against many other spells, it's almost all the time a no-save spell and does an average of 9 damage a round as a bonus action and they have disadvantage when attacking anyone. The only reason this is not gold is because targeting can be a bit limiting and because it's concentration based.
Hold Person free advantage + crits, this is amazing. The only problem is both that it's concentration based and they can make a save at the end of their turn for every turn.
Invisibility this spell is great, free advantage + super stealth, only problem is that it's not greater invis.

More coming later

[Ashrym]

I find blindness/deafness sees much more mileage than heat metal. The target normally attacks with disadvantage being blind, is attacked with advantage being blind, so the the overall effect is similar because the target does less damage and takes extra damage (from attacks). The difference is in adding the save to trade out the situational requirement, and I avoid situational spells until higher levels when I can afford to have spells known that might be niche.

The other huge upside is that blindness/deafness doesn't require concentration while heat metal does so blindness/deafness is a top choice. It can be used regardless of concentration already being taken.

[Chronos]

Heat Metal is much better than Blindness. First of all, while Heat Metal is situational, you know exactly what the situation is: If your enemy isn't toting around metal, you won't even try to use it, instead going for some other spell, so it'll never be wasted. With Blindness, however, the situation is "fails a saving throw", and you never know when that's going to be, so it'll be a wasted slot and action a good chunk of the time (especially at low levels).

Second, Heat Metal will do damage to the target at the same time that it's hampering them, and fairly good damage at that. A blinded target is easy for your warrior buddies to clean up, but a Heat Metal-ed target won't even need the clean-up; you'll kill them yourself.

[Ashrym]

Heat Metal is much better than Blindness. First of all, while Heat Metal is situational, you know exactly what the situation is: If your enemy isn't toting around metal, you won't even try to use it, instead going for some other spell, so it'll never be wasted. With Blindness, however, the situation is "fails a saving throw", and you never know when that's going to be, so it'll be a wasted slot and action a good chunk of the time (especially at low levels).

Second, Heat Metal will do damage to the target at the same time that it's hampering them, and fairly good damage at that. A blinded target is easy for your warrior buddies to clean up, but a Heat Metal-ed target won't even need the clean-up; you'll kill them yourself.

First heat metal is absolutely worthless outside of that situation, which is against most monsters. Blindness can almost always be applied to any target.

Second, a spell with no concentration check allows doubling up with additional effects or additional targets, which is impossible for heat metal.

Third, blindness can be cast on multiple targets using a higher level slot for disadvantaged attacks from multiple attackers. Heat metal is a single target spell.

Forth, if you are killing things with heat metal you usually wasted a spell slot. It does damage but it's not good damage compared to the bonus damage attacking a blinded character has, especially in conjunction with -5/+10 feats and the damage from heat metal is so low per turn and most other characters would kill the creature faster without needing any spells. Hit points increase rapidly by CR and it would take some time for the impact of heat metal to be seen even on creatures that can be affected.


Heat metal is situational, single target, and requires either time or a higher level slot to make that single target situational use to be effective. It's not nearly as good as blindness/deafness.

[Taejang]

First heat metal is absolutely worthless outside of that situation, which is against most monsters. Blindness can almost always be applied to any target.

Second, a spell with no concentration check allows doubling up with additional effects or additional targets, which is impossible for heat metal.

Third, blindness can be cast on multiple targets using a higher level slot for disadvantaged attacks from multiple attackers. Heat metal is a single target spell.

Forth, if you are killing things with heat metal you usually wasted a spell slot. It does damage but it's not good damage compared to the bonus damage attacking a blinded character has, especially in conjunction with -5/+10 feats and the damage from heat metal is so low per turn and most other characters would kill the creature faster without needing any spells. Hit points increase rapidly by CR and it would take some time for the impact of heat metal to be seen even on creatures that can be affected.


Heat metal is situational, single target, and requires either time or a higher level slot to make that single target situational use to be effective. It's not nearly as good as blindness/deafness.
I'm not going to argue that Blindness/Deafness is bad, nor that it is worse than Heat Metal. But I think you aren't giving Heat Metal its fair credit.

First, if you know the campaign won't have enemies with metal, then definitely don't take it. Most campaigns will have enemies wielding metal weapons and/or armor. Higher level enemies like dragons won't, but they also can beat the spell save on Blindness/Deafness, so...

Blindness/Deafness using a higher level spell slot to target multiple enemies is a bonus, but if you are going to extoll that benefit, you can't put down Heat Metal for doing more damage with a higher spell slot. Both get better with a better spell slot. And because Blindness/Deafness requires that extra spell slot for multiple targets, you can't put Heat Metal down for being single target.

If you are using a spell slot to kill something (i.e. with Heat Metal), that isn't wasted at all. Blindness/Deafness requires at least two actions to be fully used: one to cast, and one for another character to attack the affected creature. Heat Metal only takes one action. Economically using your party's actions, Heat Metal is strictly better. Since the enemy has disadvantage, you can likely ignore it until the damage kills it, even if it takes a couple turns.

How the DM roleplays a creature affected by Heat Metal is also important. Many weaker enemies may spend their turn desperately trying to rip off armor and/or running for the lake, meaning they are a complete non-issue. If applied to a weapon, you may well disarm the enemy, turning a +5 to hit with a longsword into a +2 to hit with fists, drastically weakening a single target's attack potential.

In the end, if you have lots of other concentration spells, are facing enemies without metal, or want to affect multiple enemies and don't mind using a higher spell slot to do so, then Blindness/Deafness is better. If you want to efficiently use your party's actions or nullify a single target with metal, Heat Metal is perfect.

[Talderas]

Crown of Madness is a great spell, very useful against the BBEG so that he starts killing all of his minions instead of you guys. It is possible to get a save and have this spell do nothing however so it's not amazing.

This spell isn't anywhere close to being "mandatory" it's highly situational. First it requires an enemy target in melee which is adjacent to one of his allies. Any other situation and the spell is useless. You can only force a melee attack and it only occurs at the beginning of the target's turn. The spell is useless against ranged characters. Additionally the spell is concentration but has an added cost of requiring your action every turn to also maintain it and this is on top of the fact that the target get's a save at the end of each of its turns. The best outcome is that you force a single melee attack against one of his allies and the BBEG retreats and does nothing while you expend your action every turn keeping him out of melee as long as you maintain concentration. Situations where you would want to hold concentration on the spell for more than one round are likely few and far between.

[JAL_1138]

You can play heat metal into some serious intimidation, too.

Bard: "Let's put it this way, berk. I know Heat Metal, an' yer wearin' metal trousers over yer voonerables. Think about that f'r a second."
Guardsman: "...*gulp* I'll just open this door for you, then..."
Bard: "Thank you."

On another note, disarming opponents is just as good a use for it as the damage, agreed with Taejang.

[Taejang]

This spell isn't anywhere close to being "mandatory" it's highly situational...
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that...


You can play heat metal into some serious intimidation, too.

Bard: "Let's put it this way, berk. I know Heat Metal, an' yer wearin' metal trousers over yer voonerables. Think about that f'r a second."
Guardsman: "...*gulp* I'll just open this door for you, then..."
Bard: "Thank you."
Ha, nice! I hadn't even thought of that.

On the flip side, you could use Blindness/Deafness to fake divine intervention.

Bard: <Hide>
Cleric: "Open the door or be struck down!"
Guard: "No!"
Bard: <cast Blindness>
Guard: "Wha-? I can't see! What happened?"
Cleric: "You displeased my god. Better open the door quick, or it'll get worse!"

[charlesk]

In a game last night my bard cast deafness on himself to deal with a situation with a monster that was trying to charm the party. :)

[Chronos]

Bah, he should have just cast it on the rest of the party, and had them tie him to the mast of the ship.

[zingbobco000]

This spell isn't anywhere close to being "mandatory" it's highly situational. First it requires an enemy target in melee which is adjacent to one of his allies. Any other situation and the spell is useless. You can only force a melee attack and it only occurs at the beginning of the target's turn. The spell is useless against ranged characters. Additionally the spell is concentration but has an added cost of requiring your action every turn to also maintain it and this is on top of the fact that the target get's a save at the end of each of its turns. The best outcome is that you force a single melee attack against one of his allies and the BBEG retreats and does nothing while you expend your action every turn keeping him out of melee as long as you maintain concentration. Situations where you would want to hold concentration on the spell for more than one round are likely few and far between.

Ah yes, I see your point, lowering it to black for being so situational.

[MadBear]

Sleep this spell is basically huge button that says: "Combat Over" at levels 1 - 3 but by levels 4 - 20 it will do next to nothing, which includes if you decide to scale it making it purple. I recommend switching it out for something different at higher levels.
Speak with Animals

I actually found the scaling and use of this spell works pretty decently even later in the adventure. Just last session (were level 7) we we're fighting a White Dragon. We had done significant damage to it, but we were all about 1 shot away from having a TPK. A scaled (3rd level slot if I remember correctly) sleep was used as a last ditch effort and worked beautifully to knock the dang dragon out.

Its use just changes as the game moves on. It doesn't end encounters before they begin like it used to in levels 1-3, instead it can finish off a tough enemy after other damage has been done. It's kind of like a poor mans power-word kill.

[Taejang]

I actually found the scaling and use of this spell works pretty decently even later in the adventure. Just last session (were level 7) we we're fighting a White Dragon. We had done significant damage to it, but we were all about 1 shot away from having a TPK. A scaled (3rd level slot if I remember correctly) sleep was used as a last ditch effort and worked beautifully to knock the dang dragon out.

Its use just changes as the game moves on. It doesn't end encounters before they begin like it used to in levels 1-3, instead it can finish off a tough enemy after other damage has been done. It's kind of like a poor mans power-word kill.
That's a neat idea. I'll have to remember that.

[Talderas]

Ah yes, I see your point, lowering it to black for being so situational.

Yep, just comparing it with a cursory examination of Hold Person shows how bad it is.

Both spells target the same save (WIS). Both spells permit a save at the end of the afflicted's turn. Both spells require concentration. Hold person prevents action by the target while Crown of Madness only allows you to take an attack action for the target at the beginning of its turn. Hold person requires nothing but concentration while crown of madness requires concentration + your action to maintain. Hold person grants advantage on attack rolls against the target, lets attacks within 5ft of the target auto-crit, and a few other benefits while Crown of Madness at best will get an enemy to attack its ally once and provoke an OA as it leave melee. Hold Person gains an extra target per level it's heightened by while crown of madness gets no benefit.

Crown of Madness could be good IF you have a way to root an enemy next to its allies but that is going to require you having an ally to setup. It has such a stupidly high cost for such an edge cast I wouldn't even put it under your black category and would put it under purple.

[zingbobco000]

I actually found the scaling and use of this spell works pretty decently even later in the adventure. Just last session (were level 7) we we're fighting a White Dragon. We had done significant damage to it, but we were all about 1 shot away from having a TPK. A scaled (3rd level slot if I remember correctly) sleep was used as a last ditch effort and worked beautifully to knock the dang dragon out.

Its use just changes as the game moves on. It doesn't end encounters before they begin like it used to in levels 1-3, instead it can finish off a tough enemy after other damage has been done. It's kind of like a poor mans power-word kill.

Or you could cast something like hypnotic pattern (which as soon as you get sleep I recommend switching it out for this) having him make a wisdom save, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FIGHT or else fall. I didn't say that it was horrible, and I understand that it works decently I just rated it as purple because I don't always see the use unless you scale it. Even if you scale it then there are normally better options.


Yep, just comparing it with a cursory examination of Hold Person shows how bad it is.

Both spells target the same save (WIS). Both spells permit a save at the end of the afflicted's turn. Both spells require concentration. Hold person prevents action by the target while Crown of Madness only allows you to take an attack action for the target at the beginning of its turn. Hold person requires nothing but concentration while crown of madness requires concentration + your action to maintain. Hold person grants advantage on attack rolls against the target, lets attacks within 5ft of the target auto-crit, and a few other benefits while Crown of Madness at best will get an enemy to attack its ally once and provoke an OA as it leave melee. Hold Person gains an extra target per level it's heightened by while crown of madness gets no benefit.

Crown of Madness could be good IF you have a way to root an enemy next to its allies but that is going to require you having an ally to setup. It has such a stupidly high cost for such an edge cast I wouldn't even put it under your black category and would put it under purple.

That is true, thank you for that.

[Chronos]

Yes, if he fails a Wis save. The appeal of Sleep is that it doesn't offer any save at all.

[zingbobco000]

Yes, if he fails a Wis save. The appeal of Sleep is that it doesn't offer any save at all.

But it has an hp limit and I believe that for every spell level it's a +2d8 hp for sleep so at third level that would be 9d8 which is an average of 40.5 which would require quite a bit of hacking at the dragon to be effective.

[MadBear]

Or you could cast something like hypnotic pattern (which as soon as you get sleep I recommend switching it out for this) having him make a wisdom save, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FIGHT or else fall. I didn't say that it was horrible, and I understand that it works decently I just rated it as purple because I don't always see the use unless you scale it. Even if you scale it then there are normally better options.



That is true, thank you for that.

The nice thing with sleep is that it has no save. That means that it bypasses legendary resistance. I'm not saying that it's the best option but it's a really good scaleable first level spell. For a wizard who has a limited number of spells to cast during the day, it has a good amount of versatility, needs no save, and works from levels 1-20.

[zingbobco000]

That is why sleep is good, just in my experience I've found that hypnotic pattern is better because is it not limited to HP. i just believe that it drops off in usefulness and should be replaced by different spells such as Faerie Fire which shouldn't drop off as much as sleep.

[ImperiousLeader]

2nd level spells
Enhance Ability - This is a tool for outside combat use. It may be best left to the wizard however if you are interested in other spells.

Wizards don't actually get this spell, so it is an option for the Bard that wants a spell that doesn't overlap.

I know, it surprised me too (unless this is an error to errata). I keep rechecking the spell list, but it ain't there. Sorcerers get it, though. Weird.

[xyianth]

Wizards don't actually get this spell, so it is an option for the Bard that wants a spell that doesn't overlap.

I know, it surprised me too (unless this is an error to errata). I keep rechecking the spell list, but it ain't there. Sorcerers get it, though. Weird.

Huh. Well, look at that. Somehow I never noticed. Oh well, leave it to the cleric then, bards have too much competition for spells known to take it unless you are in a heavy intrigue based campaign. Thanks for pointing that out though.

[JAL_1138]

On the flip side, you could use Blindness/Deafness to fake divine intervention.

Bard: <Hide>
Cleric: "Open the door or be struck down!"
Guard: "No!"
Bard: <cast Blindness>
Guard: "Wha-? I can't see! What happened?"
Cleric: "You displeased my god. Better open the door quick, or it'll get worse!"

I like how you think. :smallbiggrin: You are well-learned in the art of shenanigans. :smallbiggrin:

[Ashrym]

First, if you know the campaign won't have enemies with metal, then definitely don't take it. Most campaigns will have enemies wielding metal weapons and/or armor. Higher level enemies like dragons won't, but they also can beat the spell save on Blindness/Deafness, so...

Metal weapon can be dropped and swapped; it's armor a person is really looking for. Legendary monsters can have a limited number of auto-saves but those are uncommon, which is part of what makes them legendary. Take a look through the monster manual and start tallying up opponents with no metal, metal weapons, and metal weapons and armor that are not immune to fire damage as well.

My issue with the spell isn't that it can't be useful; it's that it isn't useful often enough to warrant it early in the adventuring career and better concentration spells replace it before enough spells are known that I would consider it worth it as a known spell. It's either decent, useless, or highly limited depending on the situation.

It's great for druids because they can just add it when needed or drop it when not. Bards don't have that luxury.


Blindness/Deafness using a higher level spell slot to target multiple enemies is a bonus, but if you are going to extoll that benefit, you can't put down Heat Metal for doing more damage with a higher spell slot. Both get better with a better spell slot. And because Blindness/Deafness requires that extra spell slot for multiple targets, you can't put Heat Metal down for being single target.

It takes less investment into higher level spell slots to see returns on blindness/deafness. Heat metal in a higher level slot is only d8 (4.5) more damage (per spell slot) to that single target and still won't matter in a higher level slot or not if the target is immune to fire or not wearing metal. Blindness in a higher level slot turns into a probability benefit to get a certain number of opponents to fail the save. For example, it only takes a 3rd level spell slot for 2 saving throws and that's similar to disadvantage on one opponent so it's more likely to get one failed save. It also helps that DC's increase while most monsters don't have saving throw proficiencies.

No matter how a person looks at it, heat metal will always be single target and require concentration.


If you are using a spell slot to kill something (i.e. with Heat Metal), that isn't wasted at all. Blindness/Deafness requires at least two actions to be fully used: one to cast, and one for another character to attack the affected creature. Heat Metal only takes one action. Economically using your party's actions, Heat Metal is strictly better. Since the enemy has disadvantage, you can likely ignore it until the damage kills it, even if it takes a couple turns.

It's wasted because it's damage inflicted to a target that would have died with or without the spell. Higher CR monsters have hit points increase rapidly and 2d8 or 3d8 per round isn't that good. Advantage on attacks against a creature, or couple of creatures, with high damage melee using -5/+10 bonuses and bonus attacks is a huge increase, however, for those creatures with a lot of hit points.

If I wanted 9 damage per round I have a lot of ways of getting that. Economically, I could use a lower level slot on Tasha's and ignore a monster that won't give any attacks, or spend a 2nd level spell slot on hold person and the monster won't have any attacks. Both require concentration and affect more target types, just like blindness affects more creature types. No concentration and more creature types than either of those other 2 spells is a reason to take blindness/deafness, but if concentration isn't a concern then hold person tends to still be a better choice than heat metal.

It's not even just a couple of turns ignoring something that's taking a bit of damage and attacking with disadvantage. At 3rd level, when the spell becomes available, CR 2 monsters have ~60 hp whom the spell might be cast on. CR2 berserkers have 67 hp, for example, and CR2 knights have 52 hp. CR3 minotaur has 76 hp. 4 rounds later the target being ignored is still there, still attacking, and having not simply been quickly killed or incapacitated is still at a better chance of inflicting damage to the party than having been killed or incapacitated.

What you are describing is spending a spell slot to lay prep work down on a monster later, or kill something really easy to kill without needing the spell slot. Prep work might be useful if there are 2 strong targets and 1 is wearing metal and not immune to fire so that a team can focus on the other, but it seems like a better idea to simply Tasha's one of them to ignore it for a lower level slot.

Your number of actions example isn't saving economy. It's trading one type of economy for another -- higher level spell slot and concentration.


How the DM roleplays a creature affected by Heat Metal is also important. Many weaker enemies may spend their turn desperately trying to rip off armor and/or running for the lake, meaning they are a complete non-issue. If applied to a weapon, you may well disarm the enemy, turning a +5 to hit with a longsword into a +2 to hit with fists, drastically weakening a single target's attack potential.

That's not any different than how a DM chooses to roleplay a monster who's been intimidated, blinded, or shot at with a crossbow bolt. It's just as valid to state the target could run and hide under a table because he was threatened by some big guy with an axe so axes must be good. That's DM perogative but it's not a quality of the mechanic.

It's still easier just to kill the weaker opponent.


In the end, if you have lots of other concentration spells, are facing enemies without metal, or want to affect multiple enemies and don't mind using a higher spell slot to do so, then Blindness/Deafness is better. If you want to efficiently use your party's actions or nullify a single target with metal, Heat Metal is perfect.

I stand by blindness/deafness as a good spell. The real reason is the lack of a concentration requirement, but also because it's party friendly and affects a wide variety of creatures compared to other lower level spells.

If I want to efficiently nullify a single target I would more likely cast a spell that can affect the target. The requires metal aspect is far too restrictive to recommend to a lower level bard.


Huh. Well, look at that. Somehow I never noticed. Oh well, leave it to the cleric then, bards have too much competition for spells known to take it unless you are in a heavy intrigue based campaign. Thanks for pointing that out though.

Enhance ability is worth it for bards. It works well with their bonuses to checks that aren't available with clerics, and it also applies to initiative if the bard wants to go first. A class that often invests in DEX and gets jack-of-all-trades bonus to initiative, and had advantage on the initiative rolls if using the cat's grace version of enhance ability has great initiative rolls.

The only real drawback is the concentration requirement. Concentration mechanics are a pain.

[Chronos]

Heat metal in a higher level slot is only d8 (4.5) more damage (per spell slot) to that single target...
10d8 more, not d8.


Enhance ability is worth it for bards. It works well with their bonuses to checks that aren't available with clerics, and it also applies to initiative if the bard wants to go first.
Only if you know combat is coming before you enter it, and if you know that, there are plenty of other buff spells you might want instead, especially since Dex checks won't come up much in combat after initiative.

[Taejang]

I like how you think. :smallbiggrin: You are well-learned in the art of shenanigans. :smallbiggrin:
I'm channeling my inner hooligan in preparation for a campaign my DM says "will probably kill us on the first encounter." :smallbiggrin:

<Reasons why Heat Metal isn't cool>

Sound reasoning. The spells you give as good alternatives do suffer from offering saving throws, which Heat Metal does not (except for disarming). And I still stand by my statement about metal being plentiful- so far, every campaign we've had has been chock full of metal-wearing enemies, but this is obviously a subjective answer, since not all campaigns will. We also haven't seen much for fire resistance, seeing as our highest level characters are only at 6 and not fighting demons/devils/tieflings.

Our respective opinions hinge on two things: the abundance or lack of metal, and play style. I prefer to cast a spell and ignore the enemy. Heat Metal, cast on a weaker enemy, kills it eventually and basically removes it from combat in the meantime. No saving throws. You prefer to do max damage with the party ganging up together. My style lends itself well to groups of weaker enemies, like goblins (though Heat Metal can still be used to give some damage and disadvantage on one tougher enemy). Your style lends itself well to smaller numbers of harder enemies, when ganging up is of much higher import and the smaller damage Heat Metal offers is not as useful.

Ironically, you give crowd control as a bonus to Blindness/Deafness, but I don't see it that way. Possibly because other spells are better suited to that role (like Sleep, or Fireball at higher levels, which I mention because you referenced using 3rd lvl spell slots).

Your best point was probably that Bards can't easily swap out spells, so Heat Metal may become a worthless hole that can't be exchanged. Baring an absence of metal-wearing enemies, I'd say our opinions are just different, as we are valuing different things. The OP should have plenty of information for an informed decision. :smallsmile:


10d8 more, not d8.
10d8? I don't remember it being that high, but I don't have the book on me to check.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

I'm enjoying the debate. It's pretty informative. Special thanks to zingbobco000 for the detailed breakdown.


10d8? I don't remember it being that high, but I don't have the book on me to check.

I think he was just extrapolating it out to the ten rounds the spell can last.

[zingbobco000]

Only if you know combat is coming before you enter it, and if you know that, there are plenty of other buff spells you might want instead, especially since Dex checks won't come up much in combat after initiative.

It only lasts for a minute so it's probably not worth using a second level spell slot for a bonus to initiative and probably nothing else in combat. The main reason I made this black was because you had the possibility of temporary HP as well as getting advantage on charisma checks if it's an interrogation session or you need to get past some guards.



Enhance ability is worth it for bards. It works well with their bonuses to checks that aren't available with clerics, and it also applies to initiative if the bard wants to go first. A class that often invests in DEX and gets jack-of-all-trades bonus to initiative, and had advantage on the initiative rolls if using the cat's grace version of enhance ability has great initiative rolls.

The only real drawback is the concentration requirement. Concentration mechanics are a pain.

It's hard to predict exactly when combat comes and you probably won't use it past that so as I already said, better for the temp HP or the advantage on charisma checks.


Huh. Well, look at that. Somehow I never noticed. Oh well, leave it to the cleric then, bards have too much competition for spells known to take it unless you are in a heavy intrigue based campaign. Thanks for pointing that out though.

Yeah exactly what I was going to say, clerics can cast that and have prepared spells, much better than using one of our spells known.


Wizards don't actually get this spell, so it is an option for the Bard that wants a spell that doesn't overlap.

I know, it surprised me too (unless this is an error to errata). I keep rechecking the spell list, but it ain't there. Sorcerers get it, though. Weird.

Interesting, thanks for that.

[zingbobco000]

I'm enjoying the debate. It's pretty informative. Special thanks to zingbobco000 for the detailed breakdown.



I think he was just extrapolating it out to the ten rounds the spell can last.

No problem I felt like it could be useful.

[xyianth]

10d8 more, not d8.


Only if you know combat is coming before you enter it, and if you know that, there are plenty of other buff spells you might want instead, especially since Dex checks won't come up much in combat after initiative.

10d8 is only if it lasts a full minute, and when was the last time an encounter lasted 10+ rounds?

I stand by my sentiments that enhance ability is not worth it on bards. It's best use is not boosting initiative but boosting social checks. Bards already have great tools to help them go first, using a spell slot on top of that seems wasteful. For social check use, it's ok, but the best spell to use in social situations is a warlock's hex spell. Social challenges are usually opposed rolls, and hex is a no save disadvantage on the ability checks of your choice. Trying to lie? hex their wis check and hamper their insight roll. Trying to persuade? hex their cha check and watch them fumble their counter-proposal. Given that bards are already given great tools for boosting their own social checks (cha focus, bonus skills, expertise, inspiration) advantage would almost be redundant. And if your checks fail after hexing, you get bonus damage for free in the ensuing fight. If you have a familiar, it gets worse as they can take the help action to grant you advantage on any check you like.

[HarrisonF]

I feel like Heat Metal is one of those spells that plays much better in practice than in theory. There is no save allowed and it basically wins against a single opponent. When they have disadvantage, they are pretty much not doing much useful. The drawback being that they need to be wearing metal armor, which in practice happens a lot. Most humanoids will want metal armor if they can get it, so it applies very frequently.

Blindness is a spell that works better in theory than in practice I have found. Monsters have high constitutions generally (a good guide is at http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4162596 ), so they end up saving a lot. There are some exceptions, but they are not as common in practice (fey and caster humanoids maybe). There are only a few of these in the entirety of HotDQ for example (just named NPCs), whereas there are huge amounts of metal wearing bad guys.


zingbobco000: On another note, I noticed you mentioned that Detect Thoughts is a ritual, but it isn't.

[hymer]

I'll say that despite thinking Heat Metal better than Blindness/Deafness (in part because of how much I love hit and run, and HM is absolutely devastating when you can do that), I would pick Blindness/Deafness of the two for a bard. For prepared casters you can afford the situational and gorgeous spells, but for spontaneous casters you need to be more picky about versatility.

[Chronos]

Quoth xyianth:

10d8 is only if it lasts a full minute, and when was the last time an encounter lasted 10+ rounds?
Well in that case, the damage done by Heat Metal is "you die". Which is also good.

[Garimeth]

Additionally, Blind/Deaf can be used for more purposes out of combat I think, particularly relating to stealth/subterfuge, or intimidation. I like heat metal, but I'm in agreement with Ashrym personally, Blind is better on a bard simply due to the difficulty in swapping spells, and the greater out of combat application - ALSO no Concentration, that's tough to beat for a CC spell in this edition. HM is definitely nice though...

[zingbobco000]

zingbobco000: On another note, I noticed you mentioned that Detect Thoughts is a ritual, but it isn't.

the more you know! At least this guide is continuously improving daily so that's a good thing.

[TheFool]

I'm curious what people's thoughts are on Suggestion for that ever-so-important known spell, as Bards really need to pay attention to what spells they know. I'm playing a bard for the first time and admit that I'm pretty swayed by OOTS comics like this -

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html

... although I guess that wasn't the best example of Suggestion being used effectively <.<

The biggest challenge for it in combat I see is that it mostly works on humanoids (unless you can speak with animals) AND you need to speak their language for it to work. Would Blindness/Deafness be a better choice than Suggestion?

[xyianth]

I'm curious what people's thoughts are on Suggestion for that ever-so-important known spell, as Bards really need to pay attention to what spells they know. I'm playing a bard for the first time and admit that I'm pretty swayed by OOTS comics like this -

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html

... although I guess that wasn't the best example of Suggestion being used effectively <.<

The biggest challenge for it in combat I see is that it mostly works on humanoids (unless you can speak with animals) AND you need to speak their language for it to work. Would Blindness/Deafness be a better choice than Suggestion?

Suggestion is awesome... but it is language dependent. It is best used by great old one warlocks. (awakened mind removes language dependence) Bards can still get a lot of mileage out of it though. I wouldn't trade blindness/deafness for it however, as that spell doesn't need concentration and is a lot more universally applicable. A good argument could be made for taking both spells since suggestion has pretty amazing uses both in and out of combat. I'd personally rate it higher than even hold person since suggestion can be used as a mini-version of dominate person and the target only gets a single save attempt. (plus you don't have to coordinate it with the initiative order) I think others might disagree, but I usually skip hold person and just wait for hold monster later on.

[Chronos]

A Suggestion to attack a party-mate instead of you won't work for most non-Belkar targets, since it needs to be something the target would consider reasonable. But you can take someone out of the fight by suggesting, say, that they count all of the cobblestones in a huge courtyard, or the like (I was in a game where a sorcerer took out half the enemies that way with a Mass Suggestion).

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Suggestion is awesome... but it is language dependent. It is best used by great old one warlocks. (awakened mind removes language dependence) Bards can still get a lot of mileage out of it though. I wouldn't trade blindness/deafness for it however, as that spell doesn't need concentration and is a lot more universally applicable. A good argument could be made for taking both spells since suggestion has pretty amazing uses both in and out of combat. I'd personally rate it higher than even hold person since suggestion can be used as a mini-version of dominate person and the target only gets a single save attempt. (plus you don't have to coordinate it with the initiative order) I think others might disagree, but I usually skip hold person and just wait for hold monster later on.

I really like the idea of taking Suggestion, even just for RP reasons. I could test monsters for a common language by trying to get a rise out of them with verbal taunts. If the DM plays along then I know they can be suggested.

[xyianth]

A Suggestion to attack a party-mate instead of you won't work for most non-Belkar targets, since it needs to be something the target would consider reasonable. But you can take someone out of the fight by suggesting, say, that they count all of the cobblestones in a huge courtyard, or the like (I was in a game where a sorcerer took out half the enemies that way with a Mass Suggestion).

Yeah, that's what I meant by mini-version of dominate person. I did not mean to imply you could use it to turn an enemy into an ally.

Some of the best uses for suggestion are in non-combat situations. My personal favorite use of it was when my players needed to break into a guarded mansion to steal something. In the week prior to committing the theft, the party bard used suggestion on one of the guards to make him 'get drunk in the tavern and hit on the first woman to order a flaming kobold.' (background info: a flaming kobold is a specialty drink from a distant land) The bard then located the wife of one of the other guards and gave her the suggestion 'go to the tavern, order a flaming kobold, and make your husband jealous by sleeping with the first guy to hit on you afterwards.' The party then waited for the guards to have it out with each other and used the ensuing fight as a distraction to slip in and commit the theft.

I'm sure there were lots of other ways to create a distraction, but this one was pretty creative and made for a great story.

[charlesk]

That is absolutely epic. LOL.

[Endarire]

Lore Bard: Conjure animals is wonderful for its may swarms of ravens. I like fly, haste, and animate dead, too.

[charlesk]

I'm about to need to choose 3rd level bard spells myself, so please keep the suggestions coming! :)

[charlesk]

Is Bestow Curse + Hex as nasty a combination as it seems for a bardlock? (I realize they are both concentration, but at higher levels you can cast Bestow Curse so it doesn't require it.)

And Hypnotic Pattern seems amazing period.

[Chronos]

I'm not seeing any particular synergy between Bestow Curse and Hex. Elaborate, please?

But yeah, Hypnotic Pattern is quite good. Area-effect save-or-incapacitate, with no further saves allowed, and you can even cast it in Silence? Yeah, I'll take that.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Hypnotic Pattern, Fear and Stinking Cloud all cover similar ground, all being AoE disabling spells. They each have their particular strengths.

Fear
30-foot Cone
Targets WIS
No effect if target is immune to Fear
Targets Flee at full Dash (Good if you're all using ranged, bad if you're using melee or trying to keep them contained/captured)
CAN attack affected targets, and creates AoOs
If target runs out of sight, they get to save again.

Hypnotic Pattern
120' range, 30 foot cube (longest range)
Targets WIS
No effect if the target is blind or immune to Charm
Targets stay exactly where they are.
Spell is ended by any damage or by an action from an ally (I.e. anyone who made their save)
No verbal component
No additional saves

Stinking Cloud
90' range, 20 foot radius sphere (40' diameter, largest area and volume of the 3 spells)
Targets CON
No effect if the target doesn't breath or is immune to poison
Targets only lose their action on a failed save. They can still move and use bonus actions.
Heavily obscures the area (bad for range attackers, good if using the spell defensively, i.e. to hide or flee)
Can attack effected targets without breaking the spell
Can affect new targets that enter the area
Repeating save
Dispelled by Wind

Edit: So you can see, Fear has the smallest/least flexible casting area, but has the fewest immune targets (Nearly all monsters that are immune to fear are also immune to charm) and can't be "knocked off". But unless the target is trapped, will only last a few rounds until the target gets away. It also is a pain if you're trying to avoid raising the alarm.
HP is great for capturing enemies, and is great for initiating an encounter, with it's long range and silent casting, but Charm is a relatively common immunity/resistance (Elves, Fey, the bigger undead and Celestials), and it can be removed quickly (if half the targets make their save, then it'll only last a round. Or if anyone drops an AoE damage spell, etc.)
Stinking cloud is is nice in that it targets a rare save (for bard spells), but it suffers for being considered poison (undead, demons, devils and dwarves say hi) and also for not being a full disable. It also doubles as an area-control/terrain modifying spell.

Edit2: Fixed some things in view of the discussion below.

[SharkForce]

bestow curse can be pretty handy, depending on just how versatile your DM allows it to be. for someone with an extremely limited spell list, it can have it's uses... but probably not so much for combat.

[Chronos]

Stinking Cloud
...
Targets stay exactly where they are
I think you misread the spell. Affected creatures spend their action retching, but there's nothing saying they can't move. Presumably, most creatures will leave the cloud immediately, and unless they re-enter, won't be affected by the cloud on subsequent rounds. It'll effectively create a no-go zone on the battlefield, but unless they're right on the edge, most opponents will be able to leave that zone in whichever direction they want, so even that won't matter much. It might be good if you combine it with something that impedes movement, like Web or Evard's Black Tentacles, but then you'd need multiple casters to concentrate on both. On its own, it's pretty meh, as you're basically trading your action (and spell slot) for theirs.

[Taejang]

I think you misread the spell. Affected creatures spend their action retching, but there's nothing saying they can't move. Presumably, most creatures will leave the cloud immediately, and unless they re-enter, won't be affected by the cloud on subsequent rounds. It'll effectively create a no-go zone on the battlefield, but unless they're right on the edge, most opponents will be able to leave that zone in whichever direction they want, so even that won't matter much. It might be good if you combine it with something that impedes movement, like Web or Evard's Black Tentacles, but then you'd need multiple casters to concentrate on both. On its own, it's pretty meh, as you're basically trading your action (and spell slot) for theirs.
My group spends a lot of time fighting indoors (caves, dungeons, houses, etc). When cast properly, Stinking Cloud separates enemy ranged attackers from us. Melee enemies are engaged with our melee characters while enemy ranged characters get trapped in the cloud; they must move to the front (and thus make themselves available to our melee PCs) or all the way to the rear, causing havoc when they try and attack through the cloud. Often, getting out of the cloud requires they go around a corner or something, so they are basically out of the fight until the cloud disperses.

But if your group fights more often outdoors, then yes Stinking Cloud would be much less useful.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

I think you misread the spell.

You are correct, my mistake. For some reason I thought it said they spend their turn retching, rather than their action. This obviously changes the nature of the spell quite a bit. It's much more a zone-control spell than a disabling spell, as the disable would only last a round. The disable really only makes up for the fact that you lose a turn casting, and to create the incentive to not enter the zone.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

So, the short list of the most useful 3rd level bard spells:

Bestow Curse - Not as good as Hex. Allows for creative Curses if you can talk your DM into it.
Fear - Get this or Hypnotic Pattern for an AoE disable
Hypnotic Pattern - Get this or Fear
Major Image - Tons of creative uses, limited by imagination and the DM
Stinking Cloud - Creates a soft zone-of-control, but has flaws (is poison, not useful in open or windy areas)

Useful Spells best left to the Cleric or Wizard if that's an option
Clairvoyance
Dispel Magic
Leomund's Tiny Hut

[Chronos]

One other point about Stinking Cloud is that it doesn't trigger on entering the cloud, only on starting your turn there. So you can Dash through it without penalty, and might even be able to just plain walk through if you've got some speed boosts.