Belker VS Boromir

[Lord]

Hi Lord here

So I've been thinking about how Boromir and Belker are both in a similar position, although they have entirely different motivation's. So I've posted a Vs thread between these two warriors in D&D terms. The rules are A} A nonmagical weapon and a shield or two nonmagical weapons are allowed. B} they are in a flat plain without any sort of hiding place. C} No magical Items are allowed. Both I'd say are reasonably high level, and both are willing to die for their respective causes {AKA Boromires sacrafice, Belker's plan to make Miko fall.}

Everyone ready, good.

LET THE DEATH MATCH BEGIN

[anyone]

I would say they are both very good fighters, so i think :belkar: rages and kills Boromir in a very close fight, but then dies too after loosing his extra-HP from his rage.

[BisectedBrioche]

I thought that the extra HP took away the excess damage with it?

[PirateMonk]

Hi Lord here

So I've been thinking about how Boromir and Belker are both in a similar position, although they have entirely different motivation's. So I've posted a Vs thread between these two warriors in D&D terms. The rules are A} A nonmagical weapon and a shield or two nonmagical weapons are allowed. B} they are in a flat plain without any sort of hiding place. C} No magical Items are allowed. Both I'd say are reasonably high level, and both are willing to die for their respective causes {AKA Boromires sacrafice, Belker's plan to make Miko fall.}

Everyone ready, good.

LET THE DEATH MATCH BEGIN

No ring of jumping +20? :smallfrown:

[Snake-Aes]

I thought that the extra HP took away the excess damage with it? They're not temporary hitpoints, if you gain 10 hitpoints due to rage, you lose 10 hitpoints when it's over.

[Mad Scientist]

I'm going with Belkar because Boromir would think that Belkar is a cute little hobbit not an insane little halfling.

[Hinton]

Belkar, hands down. That little hobbit is absolutely psychotic.

[Mummy king]

Flat, featureless plain you say... HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT!

Although i don't think Belkar's high enough level for that... oh well, new plan

:belkar: RAGE!

[Tola]

Hmm.

Boromir is likely very powerful, as Captain-General of Minas Tirith. We also want to work out whether the Horn of Gondor(hard to say whether it's magical, but it IS part of his initial equip) causes Fear-it's known that the Orcs started cowering when he sounded it, though it did pass in time.

Belkar's about 15th, isn't he? With most of his levels in Ranger, and 1 and Barbarian. That gives him Camoflage. He CAN attempt to Hide(Flat plain=Natural terrain), if they don't start in sight range of each other or Boromir fails Spot and Listen. He's Small, he's got a boost to Hide and Move Silently. It's possible he could get the first strike.

After that, it's anyone's game.

Not really possible to say, as we have some idea of what Belkar can do, but NOTHING on Boromir. I want to say Boromir, though. People need to give this guy credit.

[Elven Paladin]

I agree that Boromir deserves a bit more credit. C'mon Belkar's just fighting regular old hobgoblins; Boromir went down against Orcs. And Orcs beat Hobgoblins (over the head) any day. So, I'll go with Boromir.

[Pronounceable]

Middle Earth is low powered in DnD terms. Even the greatest fighter in LotR (Aragorn) would be mid to high level. Boromir strikes me as 13th level fighter for some reason. And since Belkar is around that level, it could've been a fair fight. IF Belkar played honest for some reason. I'm sure that Belkar, being Belkar, would do some unorthodox thing and Boromir will be not only dead, but also humiliated.

Off topic: Aragorn would beat Roy though...

[Fus.Weapon 1337]

Who's Boromir?

[Lord]

Boromire is a character in the popular Lord of the Rings books and movies. This is where halflings originated, although back then they were called "hobbits". Boromire dies trying to save two of the main characters from Uruk-hai which are basicly a super orc breed.

[EvilElitest]

I voted Belkar by mistake, but i would say Boromir. He has a shield, armor, and a pretty big sword. He took down about a hundred Uruks-ai (Who are far better than orcs by the way) even after taken moral wounds. Nice fight, but i say Boromir. He also has better wisdom
from,
EE

[mockingbyrd7]

It's a tough one... as EvilElitist reminded me, Boromir is VERY tough. I would have said Belkar wins, but in a flat, featureless plain with no magic, I have money on Boromir. In any sort of forest or city or dungeon, with his ring of jumping and magic daggers, however...

(Also, you impressively managed to spell Boromir 3 different ways in one post: Boromir (title), Boromire (in the post) and Bormire (in the poll title).)

[Kreistor]

Sean Bean FTW. Not even close.

[Morty]

I'd say Boromir. Belkers are only CR 6.
:smalltongue:
Couldn't resist.

[bluish_wolf]

Boromire is a character in the popular Lord of the Rings books and movies. This is where halflings originated, although back then they were called "hobbits". Boromire dies trying to save two of the main characters from Uruk-hai which are basicly a super orc breed.

I thought the name sounded familiar.

[the_tick_rules]

boromir, belkar's crazier but boromir was one tough customer .

[Drider]

Boromir is around lvl 10 fight and belkar is ranger/barbarian at lvl 13-15(they don't ever say if he lvls up barbarian)

[Glarx]

Boromir is dead, Belkar isn't.

CORPSE v HALFLING!

Actually, V wins. Fireball to the joint faces of B&B.

And Thog loses. Just because.

[Stormwolf]

I agree that Boromir deserves a bit more credit. C'mon Belkar's just fighting regular old hobgoblins; Boromir went down against Orcs. And Orcs beat Hobgoblins (over the head) any day. So, I'll go with Boromir.

Actually, Boromir was fighting the Uruk-hai, which were 'greater orcs' (possibly orc/human crossbreeds although the books are a bit cryptic on their hereditary) - they were as tall as men and "unafraid of light" (i.e. suffer no penalties for fighting in daylight)... Uruks were much tougher than regular orcs (however Tolkein used the term 'orc' and 'goblin' interchangeably, whereas in D&D there is a defined difference). Doesn't really help much in this discussion, although I'd say Boromir was up against tougher opponents, in D&D terms I'd consider Uruks to be half-orcs with some class levels.

It's pretty tough trying to evaluate LotR in terms of character levels - You can't really make a determination of the outcome without assigning class and stats to Boromir (DM's discretion assuming Boromir is an NPC). It could be argued that Boromir may have some levels in ranger (due to association with the Ithilien Rangers) although his behavior / battle-rage could also indicate levels in some sort of 'barbarian' archetype. I'd put him towards the top-end of levels in whatever the campaign I was running... in my opinion he was taken down by an accumulation of 'natural 20's)

However Tolkein's characters (just like Rich's characters) had the (ultimate) power of the Storyline to help them (or, as in Boromir's case, to require a heroic last stand of them). It would probably boil down to whoever was writing the script...

How's that for justifying sitting on the fence on this one? :smallwink:

[the_tick_rules]

Does anyone have any LOTR rpg books and can look boromir's stats up?

[the_tick_rules]

does anyone have any LOTR rpg books? they gotta have boromir's stats in there.

[Maerad of Pellinor]

The two systems are too different.....Look at the LotR game character sheet. (http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/rpg/products/corebook/charactersheet.pdf) (it takes a very long time to load)

[Vox]

Boromir would win.

Much as I respect Belkar's psychotic abilities, he's a halfling. Boromir is taller, stronger, has a much more lethal sword, carries a shield, and is one of the strongest warriors in all of Gondor, a nation renowned for its soldiers. Many said that Boromir's prowess recalled that of the Numenoreans, the greatest of all the races of men.

So, basically, Belkar is going down. Refresh my memory: does he even WEAR armor? I don't believe I've ever seen him doing so. Thus, his attacks are going to be ineffective, while Boromir, as we have seen, is not only armored but has incredible endurance (three arrows/more in the book in him and he's still fighting?)

Also, with all due respect to OotS, Lord of the Rings is far superior.

*Readies sword for inevitable counterattack of crazed fan(atic)s*

[KurenaiYami]

Boromir would win.

Much as I respect Belkar's psychotic abilities, he's a halfling. Boromir is taller, stronger, has a much more lethal sword, carries a shield, and is one of the strongest warriors in all of Gondor, a nation renowned for its soldiers. Many said that Boromir's prowess recalled that of the Numenoreans, the greatest of all the races of men.

So, basically, Belkar is going down. Refresh my memory: does he even WEAR armor? I don't believe I've ever seen him doing so. Thus, his attacks are going to be ineffective, while Boromir, as we have seen, is not only armored but has incredible endurance (three arrows/more in the book in him and he's still fighting?)

Also, with all due respect to OotS, Lord of the Rings is far superior.

*Readies sword for inevitable counterattack of crazed fan(atic)s*

What Vox said. Granted, the only place I know of the Numonoreans is Battle for Middle Earth II: Rise of the Witch King, but they are a nifty race.

[13_CBS]

Wait, what combat system are we talking about? Real life or d20?

[Jayabalard]

Wait, what combat system are we talking about? Real life or d20?either way it doesn't really matter (unless you cheat and stat out boromir as a gimp)

[Setra]

either way it doesn't really matter (unless you cheat and stat out boromir as a gimp)
Not necessarily.

If it's real life, then Belkar would likely win, Boromir wouldn't think much of a halfling til he had daggers sticking out of his lungs.

In D&D I don't think Belkar could one shot Boromir like that, especially since he isn't a Rogue, and to my knowledge, does not have sneak attack.

[Jayabalard]

Not necessarily.

If it's real life, then Belkar would likely win, Boromir wouldn't think much of a halfling til he had daggers sticking out of his lungs.

In D&D I don't think Belkar could one shot Boromir like that, especially since he isn't a Rogue, and to my knowledge, does not have sneak attack.in real life, there aren't any hafllings... but there are humans. Easy win for Boromir.

In the D&D or LOTR world, a couple of dagger wounds from a halfling vs several arrow wounds from an Uruk... Slightly tougher win for Boromir if Belkar can actually take him by suprise, but a win for Boromir none-the-less

in the OoTS world: Winner determined by plot, not strength/power/ability, so it's irrelevant.

[Noneoyabizzness]

flat featureless plain?

figure the tolken putz is 13th level like oots estimated levels are, but given his stature he likely has a prestige class.

belkar has a decent two weapon build, rage and a weiner dog mount. he also has a psychotic mindset to horrify his adversaries.

smart money's on belkar, but thog always wins

[the_tick_rules]

does anyone have any LOTR rpg books? Boromir would be in there somewhere.

[MReav]

smart money's on belkar, but thog always wins

Then why does Elan keep beating him?

[Fighteer]

LotR doesn't use the d20 system, and Tolkien would probably spin in his grave at your attempt to compare the two.

Without something to use as a baseline (and let's not forget that D&D was almost wholly inspired by LotR), there is no way to assign stats to Boromir or his opponents. Also, you have to ask whether you're talking about Boromir in the films or in the books. His last stand in the novels was entirely "off screen" and we only see him after the fact, as Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli find him feathered with "many arrows". (I absolutely refuse to take the movie as canon, since it deviated from the source material in a number of significant ways to make it more appealing on screen.)

If you accept that Tolkien inspired the concept of hit points with his notion that more powerful characters could sustain a great deal more injury before dying, and you assign baseline stats to Uruk-hai as, say, 2 HD orcs (there is even a 2nd edition Monster Manual entry for "orogs" as 2 HD orcs - can you say "ripoff"?) with longbows, you still don't know exactly how many arrows it took to bring Boromir down. Guessing one arrow per hit die still leaves us with a fairly wide range. Was it 6 arrows, making him a 5th-6th level fighter? Was it 12? 20? His Constitution bonus makes a big difference here too.

Also, there is no evidence for Boromir being anything other than a baseline fighter. If anything, he's the quintessential fighter stereotype, far more so than his brother Faramir, who seems like a ranger wannabe.

[Noneoyabizzness]

Then why does Elan keep beating him?

because thog has already won, elan hasn't realized it yet.

[Tolkien_Freak]

I never would have thought of the connection.
Reasons:
-Belkar is a halfling
-Belkar is psychotic
-Belkar is evil
-Boromir is trying to do the right thing
-Boromir dies trying to save people
-Belkar has no duties to anyone other than himself
-Boromir wants the Ring only because his father told him to get it, and he thinks it would be useful

Shall I go on?

[Timberwolf]

Belkar. Boromir would be too busy trying to blow the horn of Gondor and would suddenly find himself bereft of Kneecaps. Say what you like about Belkar, he doesn't hang about.

[zeratul]

Though a fairly unrealistic situation I would have to say that boromir, would beat belkar

[Fighteer]

I never would have thought of the connection.
Reasons:
-Belkar is a halfling
-Belkar is psychotic
-Belkar is evil
-Boromir is trying to do the right thing
-Boromir dies trying to save people
-Belkar has no duties to anyone other than himself
-Boromir wants the Ring only because his father told him to get it, and he thinks it would be useful

Shall I go on?
Boromir represents the temptation of man, who of all the races is the most easily corrupted by evil. His betrayal of Frodo (regardless of his later redemption by sacrifice) is designed entirely to set up Faramir's resistance to the same temptation later in the book, thus demonstrating Faramir's extraordinary nature and suitability to inherit the stewardship. Aragorn had a similar moment, if memory serves (though not as depicted in the movies). Tolkien was not exactly subtle in his characterizations.

Boromir, as you pointed out, was not evil... merely human.

[Bel_Bel]

Belkar wins cuz hes awesome like that. :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Woot Spitum]

Uh...I can't decide, Thog Wins!:thog:

[Tolkien_Freak]

Boromir represents the temptation of man, who of all the races is the most easily corrupted by evil. His betrayal of Frodo (regardless of his later redemption by sacrifice) is designed entirely to set up Faramir's resistance to the same temptation later in the book, thus demonstrating Faramir's extraordinary nature and suitability to inherit the stewardship. Aragorn had a similar moment, if memory serves (though not as depicted in the movies). Tolkien was not exactly subtle in his characterizations.

Boromir, as you pointed out, was not evil... merely human.

Exactly. And of course, Belkar is unquestionably evil. (and not a human)
There IS no connection, so why are we pitting them in battle?!

[Fighteer]

Exactly. And of course, Belkar is unquestionably evil. (and not a human)
There IS no connection, so why are we pitting them in battle?!
Ask Lord. This ridiculous idea was his. :smallannoyed:

[Ral]

Good grief people.

Without being able to compare the milieu that each character lives in, you can't compare the character's power. It's apples to oranges.

But if we assume that both worlds are somehow equivalent (and thus comparable), then it's fairly simple. Boromir is just about the most powerful mortal warrior in all of Middle-Earth (this leaves aside elves like Glorfindel, who are not mortal and have 1000's of years to perfect their martial prowess).

Is Belkar the most powerful warrior in OOTS-world? If yes, maybe he could take Boromir. If not, then not.

Belkar's my favorite character, but I don't think he's THAT buff. Boromir nearly legendary in his badassed-ness.

And, what, you don't think Boromir's ever dealt with psychopathic opponents? He's made a career out of it! :smallcool:

[Black_Light83]

ha ha thog :thog: :thog: :thog: