Favored CLass Houserule Advice

[Shiloh]

First, let me start by apologizing if this is better suited for the the homebrew section. That seemed to be mostly new items/classes and similar world-building topics, while this is just rules help (albeit houserules).

I think most players can agree with me that the favored class system stinks. I know many DM's will completely throw the favored class system out the window. However, I don't want to do this for two reasons: it takes away the reward for players who follow their race's archetype, and it also takes away the versatility of the human and similar races with Favored Class: Any.

In past games I've run, I've either thrown out the favored classes entirely (like I said, not my favorite) or I've allowed each player to pick which class to treat as their favored class, with a much wider selection for each race. Recently, I've been trying to rework that system so that each race has an affinity for certain classes, and this affinity is ranked from 1 to 3 for each class (not just core classes, but all classes).

A score of 1 would represent the typical member of that race; these are the regular favored classes, plus a few extra for each race (High Elf Ranger and so on). A score of 3, on the other hand, would be well outside the norm for that race or just be incredibly unlikely to pursue given their strengths, like a Grey Elf Barbarian or Ogre Artificer. A score of 2 isn't necessarily uncommon, it's just not the typical pursuit for that class, such as a Githzerai Fighter.

Now, for the meaty part--the application of these scores. A character using a class with an affinity of 3 would take multiclass penalties as described in the PHB as if they were using any class other than their race's favored class. A character using a class with a score of 2 would receive no penalty or benefit, but I think a character using a 1 should receive some small benefit, such as a couple extra skill points or maybe a slight boost to a class feature (For now, I'm recording the favored class with a score of 0, but the benefits of that will probably be exactly the same as the benefits of a 1).

So, there are a few things I'd appreciate feedback on for this system:

1. Perhaps most importantly, I'd love to hear what the forums have to say about race-class combinations. If you think "this class fits perfectly with this race!" or "this race would never be this class!" let me know! I'm literally filling out a giant chart of every race and class that's been sitting in my hard drive for months before I opened it again today, so any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

2. As I said, I'm trying to decide what the best benefit for typically favored classes would be. I've considered a bonus feat to classes with a score of 0, but that might be a bit much, and I'm still not sure the best benefit for an affinity of 1 (I think it would be best to make an individual benefit for each class, but I'm not sure). I could easily throw together some benefits, but I'd like to have a well-though-out, well-balanced solution.

Or, if you just think I'm overcomplicating this way too much and should just use a simpler houserule system, feel free to tell me that as well. I'm open to any criticism.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[johnbragg]

I'm in the camp that ignores the favored class rules. The demihuman and humanoid races generally have at least some crunch that gives them some synergy with their favored class, and if they don't, and the player wants to play it anyway, then there isn't a problem. You can also ask players why exactly they want to play an ogre artificer or an elf barbarian or a warforged ranger, and if they don't have a pretty good answer, say no, that's not a good enough reason to get a "special snowflake" PC.

If you want to encourage stereotypical race-class combos, you can hand out skill bonuses or bonus feats (ones like Iron Will, Lightning REflexes, Great Fortitude, Toughness, Run, any of the "+2 to 2 skills" feats) at character creation, with a rule that the benefits of the feat only work if the character has 1/2 his or her levels in that class.

[Flickerdart]

I think most players can agree with me that the favored class system stinks. I know many DM's will completely throw the favored class system out the window. However, I don't want to do this for two reasons: it takes away the reward for players who follow their race's archetype, and it also takes away the versatility of the human and similar races with Favored Class: Any.
You say archetype, I say stereotype. If I see another elven wizard, I'm going to puke.

And humans really don't need any more boosting. They're already the game's best race.

[Vhaidara]

I think most players can agree with me that the favored class system stinks. I know many DM's will completely throw the favored class system out the window. However, I don't want to do this for two reasons: it takes away the reward for players who follow their race's archetype, and it also takes away the versatility of the human and similar races with Favored Class: Any.

First, it doesn't reward those who follow the stereotypes (which is a BAD thing. The PCs are supposed to be different, not normal). It punishes, in a truly crippling way, people who do different things.

Second, if you want to reward people who follow the stereotypes, look into the system Pathfinder uses of Favored Classes. At first level, you choose a favored class. Whenever you take a level in that class, you can choose 1 HP, 1 skill point, or a different bonus based off of your class/race. For example
Half Orc Barbarians get more use of Rage
Gnome Bards get more uses of Music
Halfling Rogues get bonuses to crit confirmation with daggers, slings, or halfling racial weapons.

[Shiloh]

You say archetype, I say stereotype. If I see another elven wizard, I'm going to puke.

I can't disagree with that. Archetype and stereotype are pretty much the same, and I get that they can get annoying. However, when it comes to a fantasy roleplaying game, I think they exist for a reason.

I appreciate the feedback. I definitely see the argument against favored classes, and recognize it as totally valid. But I like some of what it offers; from a roleplay perspective, it makes sense that an elf raised by elves would have more of a knack for spellcasting, and that a halfling would be well-fit to sneaking. I totally encourage players to be different (I had an Orc Sorcerer in one game and the player played him spectacularly), and that's why the majority of classes wouldn't get any special penalty or benefit for any given race. However, there are those extremes which I feel either need to be justified (Ogre Artificer) or reflect the race's inert strengths (Dwarf Fighter). Think racial substitution levels, I suppose--I've just never been a huge fan of how that system implements it all.

That said, I'm definitely leaning more towards small bonuses per class like Keledrath suggested. I'm not too familiar with Pathfinder (shame, I know) and will definitely take a look into that!

[Vhaidara]

I do very much recommend looking into Pathfinder. I've made the complete transition since Dreamscarred Press finished porting the various 3.5 subsystems (Tome of Battle, Magic of Incarnum, Truenaming, Shadowcasting). And Radiance House ported the Binder with their Occultist (make sure you find the Radiance House one and not the Paizo one)

[Shiloh]

Well, after looking over the Pathfinder system for favored classes, I'll definitely be going more that route. I like the multitalented option; it keeps the versatility of humans and half-elves without causing the system as a whole to cause really high penalties. A little tweaking and this will be exactly what I was looking for, thank you for the tip!

[Flickerdart]

Archetype and stereotype are pretty much the same, and I get that they can get annoying.
Not really. "Spellcaster" is an archetype. "Elf wizard" is a stereotype. Why is an elf supposed to be a wizard, but not any of the other hundred spellcasting classes?

[Vhaidara]

And beyond that, I've always felt Sorcerer actually fit Elves better than Wizard. Elves are supposed to have magic in their blood. It is supposed to be as natural as breathing. That's the Sorcerer, not the Wizard.

Now, I would probably make it Sage Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/mutated-bloodlines---paizo/sage) Sorcerers, but they would still be Sorcerers.

[Shiloh]

Not really. "Spellcaster" is an archetype. "Elf wizard" is a stereotype. Why is an elf supposed to be a wizard, but not any of the other hundred spellcasting classes?

Sorry, I should have clarified. That's kind of part of why I had thought of changing up the system, so an elf who wanted to apply natural spellcasting talents to train in another class wouldn't be penalized for that.

[nedz]

And beyond that, I've always felt Sorcerer actually fit Elves better than Wizard. Elves are supposed to have magic in their blood. It is supposed to be as natural as breathing. That's the Sorcerer, not the Wizard.

Now, I would probably make it Sage Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/mutated-bloodlines---paizo/sage) Sorcerers, but they would still be Sorcerers.

I've always felt that it should be Spirit Shaman because Chastise Spirit and Glorfindal v Nazgul, but really why am I dictating what the player's character concept should be ?

[Vhaidara]

I've always felt that it should be Spirit Shaman because Chastise Spirit and Glorfindal v Nazgul, but really why am I dictating what the player's character concept should be ?

Well, I was going for Arcane casters. I do agree that Spirit Shaman is probably the best general caster choice (and also one of the better designed 3.5 casters, imo)

[Doctor Awkward]

I think most players can agree with me that the favored class system stinks. I know many DM's will completely throw the favored class system out the window. However, I don't want to do this for two reasons: it takes away the reward for players who follow their race's archetype stereotype/cliché, and it also takes away the versatility of the human and similar races with Favored Class: Any.

Fixed that for you.
And, ah ha ha, ha... no. Humans are not versatile because they don't suffer XP penalties. They are versatile because there is not one single build you can come up with that isn't made more effective with an extra feat and more skill points.
Half-elves suck for exactly the same reason.


Now, for the meaty part--the application of these scores. A character using a class with an affinity of 3 would take multiclass penalties as described in the PHB as if they were using any class other than their race's favored class. A character using a class with a score of 2 would receive no penalty or benefit, but I think a character using a 1 should receive some small benefit, such as a couple extra skill points or maybe a slight boost to a class feature (For now, I'm recording the favored class with a score of 0, but the benefits of that will probably be exactly the same as the benefits of a 1).

The biggest problem I can see with this is what do you use as a guide?
Certainly not the PHB, because the favored classes listed there make no sense.
What is it about elves that makes it easier for them to become wizards than everyone else? Every single piece of fluff about them relates to their homes in the woods, where they live in harmony with nature, and they are good with elegant weapons like bows, and they live in harmony with nature, and they love natural beauty, and they get a bonus to Dexterity because they are graceful and stuff, and they see really well in the dark and don't need to sleep, and, oh look, more harmony with nature.
So why isn't their favored class druid? Or ranger?
And gnomes. They are all about illusions and they do illusions better than anyone, and look innate magical prowess that's determined by charisma. So I guess that means they're favored class would be sorcerer right?
Nope. Bard. ****ing bard.
Why? No one knows.
And look at half-orcs. Their favored class is barbarian. Get it? Because orcs are all big, strong, dumb savages. And they are all barbarians. So let's make it barbarian.

Taking a mechanical approach? All you'll end up with is doing a whole lot of work to discover that the majority of favored classes will end up being the optimal choice for that race anyway. Illumians make great spellcasters because of their sigils. Elves make terrible meldshapers becasue of the Con penalty. Halflings make great archers because of the Dex and small size bonus. You'd save yourself a whole ton of work by just throwing out the favored class system entirely.


1. Perhaps most importantly, I'd love to hear what the forums have to say about race-class combinations. If you think "this class fits perfectly with this race!" or "this race would never be this class!" let me know! I'm literally filling out a giant chart of every race and class that's been sitting in my hard drive for months before I opened it again today, so any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Clichés and stereotypes are bad. Forcing players to adhere to them, or worse rewarding them for it, will stifle creativity to a detrimental degree. Flavor restrictions, not mechanical ones, are what get the creative juices flowing (Everyone has to be an Underdark race, only martial characters and spellcasters with limited lists are allowed, everyone has to have a power point reserve). Those are the things that make interesting characters.


2. As I said, I'm trying to decide what the best benefit for typically favored classes would be. I've considered a bonus feat to classes with a score of 0, but that might be a bit much, and I'm still not sure the best benefit for an affinity of 1 (I think it would be best to make an individual benefit for each class, but I'm not sure). I could easily throw together some benefits, but I'd like to have a well-though-out, well-balanced solution.

Or, if you just think I'm overcomplicating this way too much and should just use a simpler houserule system, feel free to tell me that as well. I'm open to any criticism.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Just throw the XP Penalty system out. My group tried to use it once. We've ignored it ever since.
If you need further convincing just read pg. 60 where they try to justify this rule's existence:

Developing and maintaining skills and abilities in more than one class is a demanding process.
Uh, developing? Agreed.
Maintaining? No.
That's like claiming you'll forget how to ride a bike if you learn to drive a car.
Learning how to cast a spell does not somehow erase your knowledge of humanoid anatomy that tells you stabbing them here hurts them the most.

If your multiclass character’s classes are nearly the same level (all within one class level of each other), then he or she can balance the needs of the multiple classes without penalty.
How is that again? So there is a universal law that says attempting to divide your attention by constantly switching back and forth between two or more completely different areas of study makes it easier to absorb the knowledge of both of them?
Sorry, but that's not how learning works at all. It all depends on the individual. Some people can study five different subjects in the span of a few hours, others can't handle more than one or two at a time. Everyone's brain is wired differently, and everyone learns best with a different method.

This rule was blatantly pandering to players of older editions of D&D by trying to convince them that 3rd edition was not a modular character design system full of front-loaded classes and prestige classes with neat abilities.

Just ignore it. Your world will be a much happier place.

[eggynack]

I don't feel this is really necessary. The game already features a favored class system underneath the apparent and crappy one, and it's called racial traits. Humans have favored class: any because everyone in existence loves feats and skills. Gray elves have favored class: wizard because of that intelligence bonus. Many other elves lack favored class: wizard, because they don't have an intelligence bonus, and have a constitution penalty, which makes them really bad wizards. lesser aasimar has favored class: cleric, because they can make good use of both a wisdom and charisma bonus. Half-orc has favored class: druid, cause those substitution levels are sweet. The game, by its very nature, gives extra benefits to certain class/race pairings, such that these archetypes you desire are reflected in reality. If the racial traits are incentivizing pairings you don't want, change or swap around the racial traits. Simple as that.

[Curmudgeon]

Your 3-point system may be a bit too complex. Just as food for thought, here's my approach to favored classes.


Favored classes under the normal rules help avoid multiclassing XP penalties, but provide nothing favorable for those class choices. These house rules accentuate positive qualities more than negatives.

If your first class level is in a favored class you get your choice of either a bonus [Racial] or [Regional] feat or 100 gp as a one-time benefit. (You need to meet the feat prerequisites as usual.) Favored Class: Any does not qualify for the bonus feat option (just the gold). A character with Favored Class: Fighter starting as a Fighter may instead select a [Fighter] feat at 1st level, and Favored Class: Monk starting as a Monk may select the other 1st level feat from their Bonus Feat class feature (thereby gaining both feats).

Favored classes listed for your character receive 1 extra skill point each level (4 at 1st level). The only Favored Class: Any race which qualifies for this is Half-Elf. (Humans already get both a bonus feat and extra skill points; Half-Elves need a little extra love.)

Multiclassing XP penalties don't happen as long as you have at least 1 level in a favored class. Favored Class: Any does qualify for this exception.

(Favored Class: First one chosen works the same as Favored Class: Any.)

[PaucaTerrorem]

I would rule that the first class level you take is your favored class. Allows for the ogre artificier without penalizing him. I'm only a fan of favored classes because I don't like heavy level dipping. Unless you can convince me that it's integral to your character's personality.

[atemu1234]

I'm against it based on the premise that instead of rewarding players for following an archetype, it punishes those who don't. In a system encouraging a cool and unique character, why pressgang players into a shoebox?

[endur]

I like the concept of favored classes. Dwarven fighters, Halfling rogues, etc. should get a benefit.

That said, the rule itself is really weird, and I would prefer a simpler rule. As others said, a benefit for following the stereotype instead of a penalty for not following it.

[Mr.Kraken]

Not really. "Spellcaster" is an archetype. "Elf wizard" is a stereotype. Why is an elf supposed to be a wizard, but not any of the other hundred spellcasting classes?

And that's exactly how the OP's idea will shine. Wizard would definetly be an affinity 1 class for elves, and that's okay. Now take duskblade for example, according to PHB2 fluff, the class was created by elves, so that's another affinity 1 for them.

The OP's system could also be tweaked based on the background of the character or the region where he was raised. If the PC is an elf in an oriental continent, then maybe shugenja or wu jen could become affinity 1 classes.

Also, this makes me reflect on the cleric. I think the cleric should almost always be an affinity 1 class for every race, if that cleric's deity reflects the race's pantheon. For example, a cleric of Corellon Larethian would qualify as affinity 1 for an elf, but a cleric of Gruumsh would definitly be affinity 3.