How balance is Person_Man Magitech Templar

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Hi. not sure if this belongs on 3.5 or homebrew forum, but i was looking at Person_Man Magitech Templar homebrew class http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176276-3-5-Magitech-Templar-Iron-Man
and was wondering if anyone played it and if they thought it was balance. i would really like to play this class, but i would like hear people's opinion on it.

[Karl Aegis]

It isn't a full caster and its skill list isn't too great. It has a decent enough optimization floor, but won't break any games over its knee. Might make for a good second-in-command for a big bad evil guy.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

So if it's not game breaking would it be balance in a normal campaign.

[IZ42]

It's a strong defensive class, to be honest, but aside from that, it's about as strong as any other full BAB class in my opinion.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

This might be a stupid question, but would this class benefit if gestalted with artificer. I ask this because i don't have the book in front of me right now and can't remember all the artificers abilities.

[Jack_Simth]

This might be a stupid question, but would this class benefit if gestalted with artificer. I ask this because i don't have the book in front of me right now and can't remember all the artificers abilities.
Very nearly ANYTHING benefits from Gestalting with Artificer (the big exceptions being magic-phobic things, like the Forsaker or a Vow of Poverty build). This does too.

However: It's somewhat limiting, as you've got the pesky problem of ASF in a lot of scenarios. Those are avoidable, don't get me wrong, but it's something to be aware of.

Really, if you want to determine whether or not adding Artificer to something would help it, ask yourself two questions:
1) Would adding more magical items help this character?
2) Would adding artificer detract from anything important for this character?

If 1 is yes, and 2 is no, then yes, adding Artificer helps. In Gestalt, well, you don't lose much by taking Artificer, too.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

so looking at the upgrades and i notice that you can get an upgrade that grants you a 30ft clumsy fly speed with the fly by attack feat. i know that most kinds of flight are gain around level 6 and grant you a average fly speed. so how broken would it be to gain a clumsy fly speed with bonus feat at level 1.

[dextercorvia]

so looking at the upgrades and i notice that you can get an upgrade that grants you a 30ft clumsy fly speed with the fly by attack feat. i know that most kinds of flight are gain around level 6 and grant you a average fly speed. so how broken would it be to gain a clumsy fly speed with bonus feat at level 1.

It's not broken, you just won't usually be able to challenge that character with slippery bridges, or walls that need climbed.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

i got another question about the class. the Magitech Armor class feature says

"At 1st level you gain a suit of magic armor from your church (or family, clan, king, or other organization as appropriate for your character). You may choose any type of armor that you are proficient with. It is of masterwork quality, but is otherwise typical of armor of that type."

does that mean i could get master work full plate for free which is a 1650 Gd armor.
i know that this is a class feature, but is this even fair to other player who can't afford armor that cost that much.

[IZ42]

That's not entirely unreasonable, as they don't get much beyond that at first level, and having that high of an ACP isn't good for flying. In fact, I don't think it is possible to fly in heavy armor, but I'd have to check.

[Barstro]

i know that this is a class feature, but is this even fair to other player who can't afford armor that cost that much.

IMO, no. But, they are on your team and you are helping them level quicker by making the fights a bit easier. Pay a tax to the party for the first few levels so that everyone is at the same point by level 4.

[Jack_Simth]

In terms of balance, the class appears to be basically a warlock that's a bit more meatshield and a bit less caster. I don't really understand the logic behind the choices in the various blaster damage values, but eh.



does that mean i could get master work full plate for free which is a 1650 Gd armor.
i know that this is a class feature, but is this even fair to other player who can't afford armor that cost that much.
Yep. Have you ever worked out the value of a 1st level Wizard's spellbook?

[lsfreak]

Spoiler: It's 2200gp + 100gp per Int modifier. An extra 1000-ish if you use the SpC from the extra 0-level spells. Extra 200gp with Precocious Apprentice. Hence why some builds, especially to gimmick a certain challenge, have wizards sell their spellbook for gear.

[RoyVG]

If you are considering gestalting Magitch Templar and Artificer and you are worrying that the Magitech is too strong, you clearly don't know the Artificer. :smallbiggrin:

Rudeness aside, having a full plate at level 1 is strong, but never game breaking. It's relatively easy to obtain. For example a Warforged with the Adamantine Body feat effectively has an masterwork Adamantine Full plate attached to himself. It gets DR2/-, as if medium armor so the price of this feat is somewhere between 11500 and 16500 gp (1500 for armor, 10-15k for Adamantine + DR). If you consider it an Attached or Embedded Warforged component, the price technically doubles! The Warforged arguably does not have an Armor Check Penalty, instead it gives an unnamed penalty to these same skills (technically meaning no double penalty to Swim). Not to mention your fists are now Adamantine so you can break stuff really easily now with the added bonus of ignoring 20 Hardness.

Shameless promotion for my friend, but here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?245701-Morph-Bark-s-Homebrew-Tier-Compendium) the Magitech templar is considered about around tier 3-4, similar to a decently optimized warlock or a ToB class. The list is not always super accurate (don't hate me) but it does a very decent job.

[HammeredWharf]

Without having read all of its abilities thoroughly, I'd say it does look like a T3-4 class. As for getting the armor for free, to be honest it could break low-op games. If you combine it with a shield, you can easily reach AC high enough for monsters to only hit you on a 20. However, that only applies to lvl 1 low-op games and is relatively harmless compared to other low-level optimization shenanigans.

[Barstro]

Yep. Have you ever worked out the value of a 1st level Wizard's spellbook?

The difference being that a Wizard without a spellbook is worthless and a fighter WITH a spellbook has not gained anything. While many different people would love to get free platemail.

That is just an explanation for why other players might get upset. I think it is fair, in the end, for the platemail to be free.

NOTE: were I DM, I would disallow the selling of a low level spellbook. If they can be sold, then I'm sure there is a glut in the market and they do not actually have much value.