Truth serum suggestion

[Renen]

Is it possible to have the suggestion spell act as a truth serum, by ordering the person to answer, and answer truthfully?
Obviously asking any questions the person would consider to be dangerous would be a no go. Like asking a light (though they are immune to mind affecting) where it's phylactry is.

[Thatwarforged]

Zone of truth plus suggestion (or command), requires 5th level wizardand 3rd level cleric. Make them to potions if the dm allows. Or combine them for pretty much truth serum.

[Jack_Simth]

Is it possible to have the suggestion spell act as a truth serum, by ordering the person to answer, and answer truthfully?
Obviously asking any questions the person would consider to be dangerous would be a no go. Like asking a light (though they are immune to mind affecting) where it's phylactry is.

Assuming you've got the person more or less at your mercy?

"We've got you dead to rights and will see through any lie. I suggest you cooperate by answering our questions fully and truthfully."

That's usually going to seem relatively reasonable to most DM's, won't it? "a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two)" - a course of activity (cooperate by answering fully and truthfully), just two sentences, and reasonable if they're at your mercy.

[PersonMan]

Things will be different if you want 'must answer truthfully' or 'must give me a true answer that I want', because they can be quite different in practice. I can truthfully reply to an entire interrogation with 'I will not tell you', if I'm only being forced to speak truth. :smallwink:

[Seto]

Zone of truth plus suggestion (or command), requires 5th level wizardand 3rd level cleric. Make them to potions if the dm allows. Or combine them for pretty much truth serum.

The DMG already has Truth Serum : not only are you obligated to tell the truth, but you are obligated to answer the questions you're asked (you get a new save for each question, but it only makes you save for the question, not the general effect). And it's for 500 gp. But the DC is pretty low (13).

[ShurikVch]

Elixir of Truth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#elixirofTruth)

[Thatwarforged]

I did not bother checking since i did not remember one. Though there it exsist, it still would probably be better if they had a cleric use zone of truth with a wizard using suggestion simply for an actual decent DC. If they dont have either a elixir works.

[Renen]

But guys... the point wasnt that I want a truth serum. The point is that I want a truth serum out of suggestion specifically. :smallfrown:

[Sliver]

Well, there is no issue with brewing a Potion of Suggestion. Since you must make all the decisions when you finish the brewing, just go with "I should answer fully, helpfully and truthfully" or something along those lines.

[Jack_Simth]

But guys... the point wasnt that I want a truth serum. The point is that I want a truth serum out of suggestion specifically. :smallfrown:
Short answer is "Under most DMs, yes, but you'll need to be careful with the phrasing, and how you phrase it will vary based on the situation".

I've given you one example - for when you've got someone largely under your control already.

Something along the lines of "Ah, you can trust me; tell me the truth about what you know of X" (where X is the subject you want to know about - like, say, "what the king's chancellor is planning") will probably do fairly well in a social situation - provided the guy doesn't have overly strong reason to distrust you.

Suggestion is relatively rules-light, so without further information, it's hard to suggest good Suggestions.

[Sliver]

Short answer is "Under most DMs, yes, but you'll need to be careful with the phrasing, and how you phrase it will vary based on the situation".

I've given you one example - for when you've got someone largely under your control already.

Something along the lines of "Ah, you can trust me; tell me the truth about what you know of X" (where X is the subject you want to know about - like, say, "what the king's chancellor is planning") will probably do fairly well in a social situation - provided the guy doesn't have overly strong reason to distrust you.

Suggestion is relatively rules-light, so without further information, it's hard to suggest good Suggestions.

Problem is that you must make all the decisions that are related to the casting of the spell ahead of time. That means that you should make the suggestion as vague and at the same time as precise as possible. If you set it with a specific subject, then it will only be useful on that specific situation and you won't be able to use the serum to gain more information beyond that...

[Jack_Simth]

Problem is that you must make all the decisions that are related to the casting of the spell ahead of time. That means that you should make the suggestion as vague and at the same time as precise as possible. If you set it with a specific subject, then it will only be useful on that specific situation and you won't be able to use the serum to gain more information beyond that...
Correct. However, the more "general" the phrasing, the less likely it is to be done in such a way as to "make the activity sound reasonable" as required by the spell.

[Necroticplague]

The problem with trying to truth serum type effects on anyone is that there is a very large list of things that are both true and relevant, but not what you're looking for. Even fairly basic inquiries like "where are your companions going" can become torturous games of semantics if they're trying to not tell you. Or, to quote myself from a different thread:

Villian:*casts Zone of Truth*
Villian:Now, will you tell us where your friend are?
Gene:Nope.
Villian:Where are they?
Gene:Probably in their bedrolls, it's pretty late.
Villian:What is their destination?
Gene:The place that they're currently trying to go to.
Villian: What is there ultimate destination?
Gene:I'm not sure. Pretty sure the paladin is bound for Celestia, my lover for the Far Realms, and the gnome'll probably end up in Hell. Not sure how far he'll make it up the ladder, though. Heck, maybe in a few million years, he might come back as a demon lord!
Villian:*sigh*What is there penultimate destination?
Gene: Well, I'm pretty sure the soul's journey is gonna require crossing a transitive plane, so probably either the Shadow, Astral, or Ethereal.
Villian: Do we have somebody who isn't a smarta** we can question?
Gene: Well, I don't know about your intelligence, but based in this conversation, I'd have to say yes.
Villian:*Sighs dejectedly.*
Absolutely everything Gene said was technically correct to the best of his knowledge, and was technically an answer to the question asked.That doesn't stop them from being completely useless.

[Afgncaap5]

But guys... the point wasnt that I want a truth serum. The point is that I want a truth serum out of suggestion specifically. :smallfrown:

This may be one of those cases where you're looking for an effect that a spell suggests but doesn't directly give you, sorta like how a Belt of Dwarvenkind can grant darkvision, bonuses against magic, a bonus to constitution, and bonuses to Charisma based skill checks thanks to all the unspecified magic tied up in the spell Tongues. Or, perhaps more reasonably, how the Elixir of Vision uses True Seeing to grant a +10 bonus to search checks, even though the spell says that it can't help you find things like secret doors hidden through mundane means (presumably by searching for them, though they might have had spot checks in mind, I suppose...)

If you're trying to pitch this to a DM, I'd suggest using the Elixirs in the DMG/SRD as a point of reference, and ask if you can use Gather Information/Spellcraft/Knowledge Arcana/The Research Feat to find an alternate way of making an Elixir of Truth via Suggestion using your proposed means, either by doing it yourself or by seeing if there's a mad alchemist or friendly wizard or senior apothecary or something in the area who can do it for you. I'd still suggest using the SRD's price of 500 gold, maybe plus an additional ten to fifty percent to justify plotting or something like that.