Tome of Battle Question involving Boost and Counters

[sage20500]

So a friend just brought this up to my attention involving a character I'm currently using, apparently it looks like that Boosts use swift actions, while counters are an immediate action, according to the action rules for D&D does this mean that it is physically impossible to use both a Boost and a Counter in a Single Round? Because if so then that pretty much would change most of what I currently use on my PC since I was wanting to focus on boost's and counters with them....

[rrwoods]

So a friend just brought this up to my attention involving a character I'm currently using, apparently it looks like that Boosts use swift actions, while counters are an immediate action, according to the action rules for D&D does this mean that it is physically impossible to use both a Boost and a Counter in a Single Round? Because if so then that pretty much would change most of what I currently use on my PC since I was wanting to focus on boost's and counters with them....

If you use a counter during your own turn, you can't use a boost during the same turn.

If you use a counter between your turns, it uses your swift action for the following turn, and thus you can't use a boost on that turn.

If you use a boost on your turn, then once your turn ends you have your counter(s) available to use, since you get your swift/immediate action back at the end of your turn.

[sage20500]

If you use a counter during your own turn, you can't use a boost during the same turn.

If you use a counter between your turns, it uses your swift action for the following turn, and thus you can't use a boost on that turn.

If you use a boost on your turn, then once your turn ends you have your counter(s) available to use, since you get your swift/immediate action back at the end of your turn.

Ok, so I can use a boost during my turn, then use a counter at some point during the rest of that round, however on my following turn, I can not use a boost again until the start of my next turn, provided I don't use a counter before then. Is that the right interpretation?

[Lerondiel]

Yes. They're both swift actions and you can only have one swift action per round, if you think of a round being from the end of your turn to the end of your next turn.

[Andreaz]

You can boost->counter in a single round, it eats your next round's swift action just like using the immediate action out of turn.

Immediate actions cost your first available swift action. If you never used it this round and it's your turn, it'll eat this round's swift action. If you use it outside your turn, you don't have a swift action to spend. So it spends the next round's. If it's your turn and you just used your swift action, and then you want to use a counter, you use it. And then, next round, you don't have a swift action.

[rrwoods]

You can boost->counter in a single round, it eats your next round's swift action just like using the immediate action out of turn.

Immediate actions cost your first available swift action. If you never used it this round and it's your turn, it'll eat this round's swift action. If you use it outside your turn, you don't have a swift action to spend. So it spends the next round's. If it's your turn and you just used your swift action, and then you want to use a counter, you use it. And then, next round, you don't have a swift action.

No indeed. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#immediateActions) Using an immediate action during your turn "counts as your swift action for that turn".

[lsfreak]

Yea, no counter + boost same turn. The second your turn is over you can use a counter, so it kind of acts like it's the last thing you do during your turn (since you can do it before anyone else acts), but between the End Turn 1 and End Turn 2, you can only use ONE boost or counter. The exception is a swordsage 20's Dual Boost, which lets you activate a second boost as a free action, RKV's Divine Impetus that turns Turn Undead attempts into actions (check with DM - strict RAW it costs you your standard action to use, so it's worthless; it's generally assumed to be a free action, which leads to silliness; many have it as a free action limited to 1/turn), and Linked Synchronicity shenanigans if you're multiclassing psionics.

[Chronos]

Right, using an immediate action right after your turn is usually as good as using it during your own, but there are some cases where it wouldn't work. For instance, you use some boost during your turn, and then move in a way that provokes an attack of opportunity: You can't use a counter to try to block the AoO, because it's still your turn, and you don't have your swift action back.

[Andreaz]

Gentlemen, you offend me. That quote is incomplete. Here's the full one:

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed. You can use a boost then a counter before your next turn comes up.

[Doctor Awkward]

When my group was first integrating swift/immediate actions, we did it with poker chips.
Whenever you used an immediate action, you'd hand the chip to your GM, and he would hand it back to you at the end of your next round.

As long as you have the chip you can use a swift/immediate action.

It pretty much worked like this:
Combat starts...
"Oh crap" moment, darn I'm flat-footed nothing I can do about it. Ow.
Combat continues...
My turn, I got my chip, I'll do this swift action.
Combat continues...
My turn again, still got my chip, another swift action.
Combat continues...
"Oh crap". Ah ha! I'll use this immediate action to prevent it.
My turn again. no chip, no swift action. My round ends, I get it back.

AFAIK, using an immediate action on your turn eats that turns swift action, and if it's done between turns it eats your next turns swift action, so no you couldn't do both in the same turn.

...not that I have any idea why you would want to. What good does a counter do you on your turn?

[Andreaz]

AFAIK, using an immediate action on your turn eats that turns swift action, and if it's done between turns it eats your next turns swift action, so no you couldn't do both in the same turn.You use your swift during your turn. Big Bad's turn comes up. At this point you're no longer in your turn. Big bad uses bad stuff on you. You counter it off, since you're using an immediate action out of turn, which consumes your next turn's swift action.

[lsfreak]

You use your swift during your turn. Big Bad's turn comes up. At this point you're no longer in your turn. Big bad uses bad stuff on you. You counter it off, since you're using an immediate action out of turn, which consumes your next turn's swift action.

No one's argued otherwise?

[Andreaz]

You did. Please reread and evaluate.

[Douglas]

You did. Please reread and evaluate.
Ahem:

The second your turn is over you can use a counter, so it kind of acts like it's the last thing you do during your turn (since you can do it before anyone else acts)

It seems to me that we have a case of highly argumentative complete agreement here.

[rrwoods]

Andreaz, I read the first sentence of the post I quoted and the bolded sentence in that post to mean that you could, all during your own turn, boost and then counter. If this isn't what you meant, then my apologies for misunderstanding.

[Chronos]

You can do it in a single round, not in a single turn. A round is the span of time in which everyone goes once. A turn is one character's own specific slice of that round.