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KoDT69
2007-04-07, 11:58 AM
So here are new feats I came up with for core fighters who have trained against wizards. I had similar feats posted in the past but they have been altered somewhat. My group is currently using these feats and they seem to work nicely. They seem to help cover some of the fighter weak spots. If you don't like them don't use them. I had someone tell me before "It don't work that way because wizards would pwn you" but guess what, the feats were designed to work that way. Every tactic has a defense, whether WotC prints one or not.

Arcane Intuition
Prerequisites: Must be taken at 1st level
Benefit: You have learned about spellcasting, even if you can't cast spells yourself. Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft are treated as class skills for you, and you may add Draconic as a free bonus language.

Arcane Defense
Prerequisites: BaB +6, Arcane Intuition, No Spellcasting Ability
Benefit: Gain a +1 resilience bonus per 4 levels to all saves against spells that allow spell resistance to a max of +4.

Break Magical Barrier
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You have a talent for bypassing magical barriers. When you encounter any immobile magical barrier of any sort, you have a chance at ignoring it, or removing it altogether. Arcane Lock, Forcecage, Wall of Force and Wall of Ice are examples of immobile barriers. Mobile barriers such as Mage Armor or Bigby’s Forceful Hand are not affected by this feat. As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you may make an attempt to bypass the spell. You must be touching the barrier for the entire round, or the attempt fails automatically. Roll 1d20 +1 per level, to a maximum of +20. The DC for this check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed, the spell cannot directly affect you in any way. If a wall of wind blows something into you, damage is still taken even if you bypassed the wall. If you succeed on this check by 10 or more, you dispel the spell entirely, as if by dispel magic. During the full round action you use to bypass the barrier, you must maintain concentration as if you were casting a spell, or the attempt fails for that round. You can try again on the next round.

Resist Drain
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You are skilled at resisting ability damaging spells and effects. Any ability draining/damaging spell effects that allows spell resistance deals only half as much ability damage (rounded up). If the spell has additional effects beyond ability drain/damage, these effects are not changed in any way. This ability also provides resistance to other ability draining/damaging type attacks such as touch attacks from undead and poisons.

Destructive Defenses
Prerequisites: BaB +8, DEX 15
Benefit: Once per round, you may make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a charging foe that is within you reach and attacking you. This attack is in addition to any attacks of opportunity you may gain against the charging foe, and is in addition to any readied actions you took against that foe. If you readied an attack against a charge, you gain that attack and the free attack from this feat. This attack is resolved before the target’s attack on you. Note that a flying creature making a flyby attack, or a mounted character making a ride-by attack also qualify as charging characters for the purpose of this feat.

Master Grappler
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 15, STR 15
Benefit: Gain the ability to make a grapple check against a mounted charging foe or against a flying creature swooping at the PC to climb onto the foe. The PC gains a +4 competency bonus for this maneuver.

Superior Grappler
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 15, STR 15
Benefit: The PC has learned complex techniques that allow him to match strengths with or even topple enormous beasts. The PC gains a +8 competency bonus for all grappling maneuvers.

Shrug It Off
Prerequisites: BaB +16, Endurance, Die Hard, Steadfast Determination
Benefit: The PC has become battle hardened against all forms of massive damage. Once per day per 5 levels to a maximum of 4, you may completely ignore the effects of a single death effect spell or spell-like ability as if you had made a successful save. You must declare your use of this ability before you roll your save against the death effect. In addition, at all times you gain a +4 resistance bonus to your saves against death effects, and even if you fail your save, you are only reduced to 0 hit points rather than killed outright. The benefits of this feat also apply to death vs. massive damage as well. Any time you would be killed from massive damage, you are instead brought to 0 hit points.

In practical application, a person that subjects themselves to an element over time builds up resistance to it. It works that way regardless if you admit it. I personally am immune to Excedrine now because I used to get headaches a lot.

Kel_Arath
2007-04-07, 12:02 PM
pretty cool, i think it will work well

Arbitrarity
2007-04-07, 12:03 PM
That's nice, a homebrewed solution. We can use this, you can use this. It doesn't fix core. That's the complaint. You having to homebrew solutions merely emphasizes the might of the caster :P.

What about mettle? It's a nice ability.

Mettle is like evasion, from hexblade in PHB 2. Fort: Partial and will: partial, etc become will negates and fort negates.

KoDT69
2007-04-07, 12:15 PM
Well I don't mind homebrewing though. It just seems that WotC is very biased being it was originally playtested by like 1 fighter, 1 rogue, 1 cleric, and 5 wizards or something leads me to believe this is just the path they've been on and will stay on in the future. My 20 mins of effort majorly fixed a long running campaign's balance and thrilled my players. A new defense, and a new tactic used against them too! I have a charging mounted fighter type who really got nailed by a lizardman taking a full attack on him in defense! And where is Mettle from? I'll have to check it out :smallbiggrin:

Aquillion
2007-04-07, 12:20 PM
Well I don't mind homebrewing though. It just seems that WotC is very biased being it was originally playtested by like 1 fighter, 1 rogue, 1 cleric, and 5 wizards or something leads me to believe this is just the path they've been on and will stay on in the future.That's not it. IIRC, all their playtesting wizards were blasters, which is an extremely weak way to use magic. They put in a bunch of save-or-die and battlefield alteration spells, but always saw them as being used as occasional support by fireball-focused casters... they never really considered what would happen if a wizard focused on them exclusively.

So their playtesters kept reporting back that magic was underpowered or exactly balanced, when in fact they were just using it badly.

I mean, official WoTC material still frequently refers to Fireball as one of a wizard's most important spells! Who really thinks Fireball is all that great? Oh, wow, a few d6 of damage...

KoDT69
2007-04-07, 12:31 PM
Yah whooohooo Fireball. Just add Energy Admixture, Maximize, Quicken, and Twin Spell and the 40th level wizard has made the 3rd level spell do a buttload of damage! Yeehaw! You're probably right though. Maybe they need to try again with all the new material :smallsmile:

Jade_Tarem
2007-04-07, 12:37 PM
Overcome Size Limitation
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 12
Benefit: The Fighter has learned complex techniques that allow him to match strengths with or even topple enormous beasts. The fighter is always considered 2 size categories larger for any grappling maneuvers.



I liked most of these except for this one. No, no, no! This will become the staple of all spiked-chain tripmonkey cheese. We don't need more of that and this doesn't help warrior types beat up on wizards.

Rigeld2
2007-04-07, 12:42 PM
Um.
2 size categories larger for grappling doesnt help a tripmonkey at all.

KoDT69
2007-04-07, 12:44 PM
That's only for grappling, and none of my group uses spiked chain seriously :smallbiggrin:

lord_khaine
2007-04-07, 12:47 PM
hey hey, fireball is good at what its suposed to go, clear a room full of goblings, so that the party fighter does not need to unsheate his sword :)

anyway, though i do like some of your ideas, then i think "Overcome Size Limitation" is far far to powerfull, especaly with the ability to ignore freedom of movement, thats suposed to be the 1 universal counter that keeps grapple in check.

for that matter, i also think its slightly unfair to reserve these feats for fighters, when all the other noncaster classes have just about the same problems.

oh and lastly, these things actualy dont really make that big a difference in the case of a fighter vs a wizards, since they will do nothing against improved invisibility and overland flight, the 2 core pieces of wizard defence that leaves the fighter chanceless.

Kultrum
2007-04-07, 12:47 PM
its a good start

Fhaolan
2007-04-07, 01:25 PM
Just to throw an idea out, one I haven't thought completely through so I might be completely off base but it might spark some better ideas...

Rather than tie these to Fighter levels, tie to BAB + other feat pre-requisites. The idea being that while not preventing non-fighters from taking the feats, lots of feats as pre-reqs make it very unlikely that non-fighters *can* take them.

No, now that I think on that, it just makes the Fighter burn more feat slots to get the good stuff. Nevermind.

You could tie it to +1 BAB progression, rather than fighter, so that Rangers & Paladins get some love too?

skyclad
2007-04-07, 01:34 PM
grants a saving throw against spells that don't normally allow one? Could you clarify that? If someone cast magic missile at me, what save do I use? What happens if I make the save?

Indon
2007-04-07, 01:52 PM
Magical Barrier Defense
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 6
Benefit: Gain the ability to attempt breaking magical binds or moving magical barricades. Examples include breaking open a Forcecage spell, pushing over a Wall of Force, breaking a Hold Person spell, or grappling a wizard that has cast Freedom on himself. (have you hugged your wizard today?)
Check: 10 + STR Modifier + total Weapon Focus benefit vs. Spell DC

One question: What if your party wizard makes a Wall of Force next to the BBEG and you, uh, push it down onto him? Perhaps 'putting a hole into a Wall of Force' would be a more appropriate effect?

A second question: Why not roll a D20, instead of just adding 10?



Resist Enfeeblement
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 8
Benefit: Gain the ability to resist ability score draining magical abilities such as Ray of Enfeeblement or Ray of Clumsiness in the same manner a Rogue evades a breath weapon attack. Ability drain spells have no effect on a successful save.

I can't think of any ability score draining abilities offhand that actually have a partial save. Most are save negates, or no save.

That's really all I notice about them that seems off. Other than this, very nice feats.

Enzario
2007-04-07, 02:16 PM
Hmm. I'm surprised BWL hasn't paid this thread a visit yet.

KoDT69
2007-04-07, 02:16 PM
I actually meant to include all CORE melee classes and the Rogue as well. So you can substitute or combine classes to meet the prerequesites because I believe the BaB is universal but leaves the Rogues behind. I was trying to type in a hurry before my family was walking out the door. As far as results of these feats...
Evade Enfeeblement - So basically your PC takes a max of 6 STR drain save for no effect against a Ray of Enfeeblement.
Magical Defense Training vs. Magic Missile your PC gets say a reflex save against each missile.
Shrug It Off - Finger of death would deal the damage part only being a secondary effect, save for no effect.
Magical Barrier Defense - I balanced this act of breaking a barrier exactly equal to the spell DC calculation. If the 2 characters are equally matched they will both waste actions nullifying each other. On equal terms and gear:
10 + STR Mod + Wep Focus = 10 + INT Mod + Spell Focus
And pushing a wall of force on the BBEG is the DM's call. I would say the WoF can be moved to escape from but not so quickly that it can be used as a weapon. The BBEG just takes a step to the side and AoO's the struggling fighter :smalleek: So really a means of escape more than anything.
I suppose you could make it a d20 roll, but I initially made it so if the caster has a good chance to not just get his spell broken.
As far as dealing with flying and invisibility, that's where you need magic items. A core fighter does not cast spells and I was trying to keep that integrity. I'm also glad to have some positive and constructive feedback. They are not all tweaked to perfection yet due to the fact we just started using them 2 weeks ago. After a few situations come up that show exceptions I'll more than likely errata my stuff. Please if anyone decides to use the feats here, let me know how it goes. :smallbiggrin:

The Great Skenardo
2007-04-07, 02:21 PM
Most of these look pretty interesting, but I'd suggest that Magical Defense Training is a little overpowered for its prereqs. Specifically, the part where it grants a save where one normally wouldn't apply. I think that mechanic can work, but it ought to have a higher level requirement.

One suggestion is to create a feat the emulates the Hexblade's mettle and Arcan Resistance abilities, to some extent.

KoDT69
2007-04-07, 02:22 PM
Good options too Skenardo, I'll have to pick up more books and research soon!

the_tick_rules
2007-04-07, 02:32 PM
interesting ideas. i had an idea of a fighter feat that would let them apply their armor to touch attacks, make ranged touches a B&tch for spellcasters.

The Glyphstone
2007-04-07, 02:42 PM
Very good ideas...doesn't this belong in Homebrew though?

Raum
2007-04-07, 02:58 PM
These are promising but I think the mechanics need some fleshing out.
Mobile Defense Training
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 6
Benefit: Gain the ability to take a full attack action against a charging foe, mounted charging foe, or against a flying creature swooping at the fighter. These attacks are not considered to be Attacks of Opportunity.

Mobile Grapple Training
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 12
Benefit: Gain the ability to make a grapple check against a mounted charging foe or against a flying creature swooping at the fighter to climb onto the foe. The fighter is considered 2 size categories larger for this maneuver.

Overcome Size Limitation
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 12
Benefit: The Fighter has learned complex techniques that allow him to match strengths with or even topple enormous beasts. The fighter is always considered 2 size categories larger for any grappling maneuvers.How do the Mobile Defense & Mobile Grapple feats work? Does the fighter need to ready an action to use them? Or are you giving the fighter additional actions in the round? The first seems underpowered and the second overpowered...is there a middle ground I'm missing?

The Overcome Size Limitation feat is interesting, though two size categories may be a bit much. I'm undecided though...if it negated penalties for size differences up to two categories I would like it a bit more. It's mostly a flavor issue for me I think...I don't see why the fighter is considered two categories higher when grappling with someone his own size.

I'm less fond of the other feats. They're all "anti-wizard" and I prefer to balance in terms of a party battling a dragon rather than a fighter dueling a wizard.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-04-07, 03:01 PM
Mettle is like evasion, from hexblade in PHB 2. Fort: Partial and will: partial, etc become will negates and fort negates.

Hexblade is in Complete Warrior.

Mettle also first appeared in Oriental Adventures as a class feature of the Sohei. That was a class pretty much everyone ignores.

Epiphanis
2007-04-07, 03:58 PM
Mettle is also a class feature for Pious Templar in Complete Divine.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-04-07, 04:03 PM
Is this meant to balance fighters and Wizards? It doesn't do that at all.

The problem in balance of the two classes isn't that a wizard can easily kill a fighter, it's the fact Wizards dominate higher-level combat and that the Fighter isn't able to tank effectively against higher level monsters (who can do too much damage to fast)

Aside from this, most of these feats are either too specific (resist enfeeblement) or confusingly written. (What does allowing a save against a spell that doesn't allow one mean?)

Tellah
2007-04-07, 04:34 PM
Is this meant to balance fighters and Wizards? It doesn't do that at all.

The problem in balance of the two classes isn't that a wizard can easily kill a fighter, it's the fact Wizards dominate higher-level combat and that the Fighter isn't able to tank effectively against higher level monsters (who can do too much damage to fast)

Aside from this, most of these feats are either too specific (resist enfeeblement) or confusingly written. (What does allowing a save against a spell that doesn't allow one mean?)

These feats make the fighter better at fighting wizards. Sometimes people fight other people, rather than just monsters.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-04-07, 04:58 PM
These feats make the fighter better at fighting wizards. Sometimes people fight other people, rather than just monsters.
Sometimes, but considering that the OP is claiming that he's "Tired of all the Wizard Bias here" I can only assume that it desires to create some semblance of balance between the classes.

Also, a great number of feats designed to fight wizards? It pushes an excessive pressure on the DM to "send NPC mages or I won't get to do anything"

greenknight
2007-04-07, 06:53 PM
The Fighter's real problem isn't that the class is bad at fighting Wizards and other full spellcasters (although that is true). ArmorArmadillo has got it right - the real problem is that the Fighter isn't really needed at higher levels because other classes can do the same job and offer a whole lot more (Cleric and Druid are the two I'm thinking of here). The other issue is that there are a number of spells which are just broken in 3.5e, and they need to be toned down a bit or removed from the game. And many of those spells are self-buffs or don't allow a save (for example, Divine Power and Time Stop). Once that's done, non-spellcasters (which includes other classes besides Fighters, and quite a few monsters) shouldn't even need these feats in order to be effective.

KoDT69
2007-04-07, 09:46 PM
The requirements can be increased as well as combining or altering some of them. The real problem I see is that fighters DO fight wizards and clerics since full casters are the BBEG of choice in most games. No I am not claiming that a set of 5 or 6 feats can balance a fighter to a wizard against monsters or each other, but they do help fill in the gaps. So 2 feats are designed to counter common arcane tactics. The mobile defense is good say against a dragon in particular if you can tempt it to swoop in at you. Think about it, it's dire charge on the receiving end, like a dire set to receive charge or something. It does require a readied action same as setting to receive a charge in the first place, it just allows multiple attacks (only the first one would do any extra damage from the charge though).

Amphimir Míriel
2007-04-08, 06:10 PM
Hmm. I'm surprised BWL hasn't paid this thread a visit yet.

He would probably say that these feats would not be enough to overcome the "high level wizards are batman" problem.

While this is a step on a good direction (since adding some wizard-slaying feats doesn't break the game too much), I would think that it's still not enough.

Yet adding some of these feats, plus some spell nerfing might do the trick

Arbitrarity
2007-04-08, 08:35 PM
BWL will say that this doesn't make the fighter any more mobile and therefore useful probably. You can full attack a balor, who has reach? Nope.

KoDT69
2007-04-09, 11:14 AM
OK s just because one feat proposed can't be used against a balor in one specific scenario and it's useless? Not at all. These have been used in an actual game and run nicely for my group. As far as other people speaking for BWL, I'm sure he has his own opinions and is more than capapble of posting his own thoughts. I could care less if people don't like these. I chose to share for those that might actually benefit from the thought process put into them. Besides, who says your fighter can't use a reah weapon? Really, at last consider the options before claiming something useless. If WotC printed these in a splatbook people would not only love them, but praise WotC for creating them. The fact that a lot here have had positive feedback tells me I'm not alone.

Raum
2007-04-09, 06:19 PM
If WotC printed these in a splatbook people would not only love them, but praise WotC for creating them. The fact that a lot here have had positive feedback tells me I'm not alone.Hehe, if you think people praise content just because it's WotC, you haven't read the threads on books like Complete Psionics or Magic of Incarnum yet. :smallcool:

Some of the feats you propose do have potential, but they need clear explanations of the mechanics involved.

KoDT69
2007-04-09, 06:28 PM
Yes I agree they need fleshed out. I'm open to any help in clafifying any of them or setting requirements :smallwink: And yes I know not everything WotC is praised. I just feel that these particular type mechanics would be praised if WotC printed them, that's all. So here is the next part of the thread...
1 - Suggestions for realistic prerequesites
2 - Clarifications of the mechanics

And I thought maybe the Resist Enfeeblement ones should include any abiliy damage/drain type effects like undead touch attacks or poison. That would make it more useful, especially in certain types of missions!

Baron Corm
2007-04-09, 06:56 PM
the fighter should not get supernatural abilities, or the ability to resist supernatural abilities through feats. perhaps MAGIC is simply more powerful than SWORDS! it would seem that way to me (think about it)! if you care only about power, just play a wizard. i know from experience that fighters can be fun to play even without the ability to cast forcecage. also, the gap widens as they progress in levels, but few campaigns get that high in levels (that i know of at least).

KoDT69
2007-04-09, 07:14 PM
Dude, that gap is what I'm trying to fill in. So in your opinion, because a PC swings a sword they should be inferior just because? No. Any kind of tactic can be learned through practice which is what the feats and skill points represent. A wizard is not innately able to cast spells, they LEARN to weild that power. The Sorcerer and Paladin are exceptions due to fluff, but all the grand feats that can be done are learned somehow. The proof? Look at the Monk class. It has spell resistance as a class feature. So the guy can jump 20 feet and kick you in the face, and resist spells. He's still basically a differently skilled fighter type.
EDIT - DUDE, look at your own fighter fix. Machismo gives spell resist. How can you possibly put down my attempt saying "magic should be better" while you have your own fix that contradicts? Guess you forgot you own idea?

Baron Corm
2007-04-09, 07:30 PM
people change, opinions evolve

the fighter class is not so different from the warrior NPC class, and that's its flavor. if you want to play a monk play a monk, but the fighter just shouldn't resist spells that don't offer a save for no reason, is what i'm trying to say! the barbarian isn't much better, and that's sort of its flavor too! if you're going to be mundane, you're going to be worse than a spellcaster. unless you get your grubby little fingers on a powerful artifact/weapon. i just don't think you should give feats or class features like that to a mundane class. yada yada.

KoDT69
2007-04-09, 07:49 PM
You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how much it changes. I and others disagree with you. But I seriously doubt you changed your mind since that link to your fighter fix IS still in your signature. That post is only about 2 weeks old. The monk was an example of a PC class that does not cast but can learn to resist magic. And that is what a fighter should be, resistant to stuff. That is how he makes it to higher levels, by taking hits and finishing the fight anyway.

Kjata
2007-04-09, 08:02 PM
Excatly. Dude, you have your oppinion, but in this thread, which is asking for help with his feats, which quite a few people like, a post sayingh fighters should be inferior just because he is mudane is not really wanted. I, for one, like these feats, and will try to get my DM to let us use them as I hate playing mages.

KoDT69
2007-04-09, 08:05 PM
Excatly. Dude, you have your oppinion, but in this thread, which is asking for help with his feats, which quite a few people like, a post sayingh fighters should be inferior just because he is mudane is not really wanted. I, for one, like these feats, and will try to get my DM to let us use them as I hate playing mages.

And I appreciate the positive backup! Please remember we're attempting to flesh these out and set appropriate requirements and clarify uses. If anyone uses them, let me know how they run in your games!

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-09, 09:11 PM
I guess I'll toss another few fighter feats onto the pile.

Grappling Training
Prereqs: BAB +5, Str 13 Dex 13
Bonus: The character may add his Dexterity bonus to grapple checks in addition to his strength bonus. Escape Artist checks the character makes related to grapples may add the character's dexterity modifier twice instead of once if the character so chooses.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A grapple check is BAB + Str mod + Size mod, Escape Artist only recieves one bonus from dexterity from being dependent on it.

Grappling Stab
Prereqs: Grappling Training, BAB +8, Str 15 Dex 15
Bonus: The character may use light weapons in a grapple without a penalty, and may use one-handed nonblunt melee weapons in a grapple with a -4 penalty. If a weapon deals blunt damage or another damage type, you must use the other damage type, but you may use the weapon. If the damage it deals qualifies as both blunt and another damage type, divide the damage in half and deal it (ex. stabbing with a morningstar). The character may also use a light weapon at a -4 penalty against a pinned opponent.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A character may only use light weapons in a grapple and suffers a -4 penalty when using them. A character may not use a light weapon against a pinned opponent.

Drafted Bodyguard
Prereqs: Grappling Training, BAB +8, Str 15 Dex 13
Bonus: Melee attacks, magical attacks, and ranged attacks on the character while the character is grappling and not pinned must be randomized with equal chance between the character and all unpinned members of the grapple hostile to the character. The character may choose not to use this ability on certain enemies in a grapple, essentially declaring an enemy as nonhostile for the purpose of this feat. In a grapple where the number of grapplers does not divide evenly onto a D6 or a D100, the character with this feat chooses who receives the smaller percentile chance (use the percentile dice if a situation such as this occurs). Precise shot ignores this feat, as do Sneak Attacks and any special attack type that provides a bonus to hit of 3 or greater (resulting from the attack itself, not from the opponent's BaB, dexterity, or an enchanted weapon).
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: Melee attacks and magical attacks are not randomized between different characters grappling. Shooting into melee receives a -4 penalty.

Diving Tackle
Prereqs: Grappling Training, Improved Bullrush, BAB +8
You may initiate a grapple on a target you have successfully bullrushed in the square they have landed in, regardless of whether you would have enough movement left in the round to move to that square. This may be attempted after pushing the opponent for more than 5 feet. You may not take your dexterity modifier in the attempt to initiate this grapple as per Grappling Training--instead, you may add the amount you won the bullrush by to your attempt to initiate the grapple.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A bullrushing character may not initiate a grapple at the end of her bullrush.

Hmm... Between this and the Grapple PrC(s?) that popped out a while back, I think Grappling has seen enough love. Lessee...

Sliding Bullrush
Prereqs: Improved Bullrush
Bonus: You may redirect the target of your bullrush to anywhere within a 90 degree arc in the direction you charged from (so if you charged in a straight line, you may push him to the diagonal on either side, or if you charged diagonally, you may push him in either of the straight boxes to the left or right of the diagonal square you would ordinarily have bullrushed him to). If you bullrush the character in any direction other than the one opposite the direction you bullrushed from, you may not push the opponent an additional 5 feet. However, you may elect to end a straight bullrush with a shove to either of the other squares in the 90 degree arc. This attack may be ended with a diving tackle as per the feat, if this character knows the feat diving tackle.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A bullrushed character must be pushed in the exact opposite direction the bullrush was recieved from.

Improved Aid Another
Prereqs: Str 13 Dex 13 Combat Expertise
Bonus: You may attempt a more complex distraction on your target. Declare an AC above 10 you are attempting your Aid Another check on. For each point of AC above 10, add one half to the +2 bonus your friend receives on the successful check result (ex. declared AC 16, passed, ally gets +5 on declared check type). The same effects may be duplicated for out of combat situations.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A character attempting an Aid Another action may only attempt it against an AC of 10, and the character being aided receives a +2 bonus to either her next attack or the next attack on her by the distracted character.

Dextrous Aid
Prereqs: Dex 15 Improved Aid Another
Bonus: You may divide the bonus from your Aid Another action between an AC bonus and an attack bonus evenly (subtract one from odd numbers in cases where Improved Aid Another resulted in an odd modifier).
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A character must declare either a bonus to AC or to the next attack roll in an Aid Another action in combat.

Knock Away
Prereqs: Str 15 Improved Disarm
Bonus: Declare a direction at the beginning of your disarm attack attempt (before attack rolls). If the check succeeds, for every 5 you beat your opponent's attack roll by, you may knock your opponent's weapon five feet in that direction. Additionally, the disarmed weapon takes damage equal to the distance you knocked it away (with Hardness applying as normal). You may not attempt to Knock Away a weapon being held in locked gauntlets.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A disarm may only cause the weapon to either be taken from the opponent or to be dropped in the opponent's square.

Deflected Overrun
Prereqs: Dex 15 Improved Overrun
Bonus: After successfully overrunning an opponent during a charge movement, you may change directions to the left or right up to 45 degrees as you shunt your opponent to the opposite side, with a maximum move distance equal to the distance you had remaining to move that turn. You receive a +2 bonus to the opposed Strength check in an overrun attack during a charge.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: You must overrun directly away from the direction you began the overrun action from in a charge. A charge provides no bonus to overrun attempts.

Rampaging Overrun
Prereqs: Str 15 Improved Overrun
Bonus: You may make as many overrun attempts in a turn as you wish, however, each successive overrun attempt beyond the first must be done at a cumulative -4 penalty to the opposed strength check. You may not move more than your maximum movement using this feat. You receive a +2 bonus to the opposed Strength check if your overrun attack is declared during a charge move. If making an additional overrun beyond the first from an overrun in which the Deflected Overrun feat was used, you may only move in the three directions you had available from the first Deflected Overrun. You may elect to, after a series of overrun attacks, end with a bullrush attempt with the cumulative -4 penalty still applying as if it was a final overrun attempt.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: You may only make one overrun attempt in a turn, and a charge provides no bonus to overrun attempts.

Sweeping Trip
Prereqs: Improved Trip, Str 15 or Dex 15
Bonus: You may choose to deal one half of the damage you would in a normal attack on the target character if your trip succeeds, in addition to the target becoming prone. As with a standard attack, you may also deal critical damage with your Trip Attacks if you roll within the threat range for the weapon you are using. The halved damage affects ability damage and any special abilities the weapon possesses in addition to regular damage. You may also elect to use the trip attack to deal nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon or lethal damage with a nonlethal weapon, taking a -4 to the trip attempt as per the usual rules for converting lethal damage attacks into nonlethal attacks or vice versa.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A trip deals no damage, and therefore cannot deal either lethal or nonlethal damage.

Anything strike anyone as excessively beardy cheese?
One issue I do have with the feats up top here is the possibility of a grapple check being made with the fighter at 4 size categories larger, if charged by a creature, and if he has Overcome Size Limitations and Mobile Grapple Training. Might want to denote that the two do not stack.

KoDT69
2007-04-10, 08:59 AM
Oh man, a few of these were also similar lines of thought my group had. I especially like the Knock-Away feat. Combined with a swashbuckler style also using the sunder feats, that could get nasty. Pair up swashbuckling PC's and they can disarm opponents and toss the weapons to the other swashbuckler. That is a good tactic if the setup is right. :smallwink:
The thing to remember too is to make the feats worth taking at higher levels. Heck, maybe we could just use the maneuvers from ToB as fighter bonus feats too and call it a day! :smalltongue: I like the desert wind maneuver, but I hardly see why it takes a Warblade or Crusader to do that and a core melee class can't? Nah, that's just how they sell the book. Hoorah for homebrew fixes! :smallcool:

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-10, 09:47 AM
Yeah, I was trying to have these abilities at least marginally helpful at high levels. Dunno if they ARE--just kinda wrote without playtesting, but meh. Maybe I'll toss in a Catch feat, or a Pass feat for disarming weapons toward an ally. Anything catch anybody's eye as being overly powerful or too weak at high levels?

KoDT69
2007-04-10, 09:52 AM
OK I have rewrote the feats originally posted to include more diverse requirements and made some other changes as noted.

Magical Defense Training (Removed the saving throw vs. no-save spells)
Prerequisites: BaB +6, 4 Ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge: Arcana
Benefit: Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana become class skills, and gain a +1 resilience bonus per 4 levels to all saves against spells.

Magical Barrier Defense (Changed the 10 factor to a 1d20 roll)
Prerequisites: BaB +8, Magical Defense Training
Benefit: Gain the ability to attempt breaking magical binds or moving magical barricades. Examples include breaking open a Forcecage spell, pushing over a Wall of Force (a slow action that can’t be used to damage others), breaking a Hold Person spell, or grappling a wizard that has cast Freedom on himself. (Have you hugged your wizard today?) Breaking the magical barrier consumes an action equal to the type of action is was cast with. Example: A Quickened Forcecage is a swift action, so the PC must use a swift action to break it open (if the check is successful).
Check: 1d20 + STR Modifier + total Weapon Focus benefit vs. Spell DC

Resist Enfeeblement (Including extra ability drain effects)
Prerequisites: BaB +8, Magical Defense Training
Benefit: Gain the ability to resist ability score draining magical abilities such as Ray of Enfeeblement or Ray of Clumsiness in a similar mechanical manner a Rogue evades a breath weapon attack. This ability also provides resistance to other ability drain/damaging type attacks such as touch attacks from undead and poisons. Ability drain spells have no effect on a successful save.

Improved Resist Enfeeblement
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Resist Enfeeblement
Benefit: Functions as Resist Enfeeblement except ability drains have no effect on a successful save and only work at half power against the PC on a failed save.

Mobile Defense Training (Small clarification)
Prerequisites: BaB +6, DEX 14
Benefit: Gain the ability to take a full attack action against a charging foe, mounted charging foe, or against a flying creature swooping at the PC. This is a readied action from the previous round to allow maximum effectiveness. These attacks are not considered to be Attacks of Opportunity. If a PC is set to receive a charge with a designated reach weapon, only the first attack is double damage.

Mobile Grapple Training (Reduced size category)
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 14
Benefit: Gain the ability to make a grapple check against a mounted charging foe or against a flying creature swooping at the PC to climb onto the foe. The PC is considered 1 size category larger for this maneuver.

Overcome Size Limitation
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 14, Mobile Grapple Training
Benefit: The PC has learned complex techniques that allow him to match strengths with or even topple enormous beasts. The PC is always considered 2 size categories larger for any grappling maneuvers.

Shrug It Off (Increased requirements)
Prerequisites: BaB +20, CON 14, Endurance, Die Hard, Steadfast Determination
Benefit: The PC has become battle hardened against all forms of massive spell damage. He takes only half damage from any area damage spells or breath weapons, save for a quarter. Any spells with an effect that also have a lesser effect on a save like Finger of Death become sub-optimal against the PC. The PC takes only the lesser effect, save for no effect.

Are these any better or more clear now? Hopefully after this week's game I'll either have better changes or more to add, whichever seems more balanced.

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-10, 10:15 AM
I think feats only ever have odd-numbered ability score prereqs... I remember that coming up a little while ago. Knock them up to 15s where you've got 14s and 13s where you've got 12s. If somebody who knows for a fact that this is true (Fax? Some other experienced homebrewer?) could confirm this, that'd be a help towards making me not feel insane. Why not make Mobile Grapple Training require Improved Grapple to fit into the feat tree, kinda like how Cleave is set up?

Also, the way Mobile Defense Training is named makes it sound like it would involve a defensive (AKA damage reducing) ability, like the Full Defense action. I would suggest renaming it something like Receive Charge.

Unhorsing Training
Prereqs: Str 15 Receive Charge / Mobile Defense Training
When attacking a mounted opponent with a melee attack, when the character deals damage either to his opponent's mount or his opponent, his opponent must add the damage you dealt with your attack plus five (resulting in a DC of 10 + damage) to the resulting Stay in the Saddle check or fall from their mount. If using a Full Attack action, use the total damage from the attack in one check rather than a check for each landed attack.
Special: A character may select this feat as their Fighter Bonus Feat.
Normal: An attack made on a mounted character or his mount forces a Stay in the Saddle check with a constant DC of 5.

Amphimir Míriel
2007-04-10, 05:46 PM
Maybe we could rename this thread as "Post here your Homebrew Fighter Feats"?

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-10, 08:30 PM
I second the above opinion; "Tired of all the wizard bias here" sounds like another "I don't see how wizards are so much better, and by the way you all suck" threads.

... on the other hand, it's really the OP's call as to what the thread is or is not.

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-10, 08:34 PM
Thirded. KoDT69, would you do the honors? And would somebody mind tossing some opinions my way?

KoDT69
2007-04-10, 10:13 PM
Sure, but how do I change the post name? I think it could use a better title too :smallfurious:

Autarch
2007-04-10, 10:25 PM
First, let me say that I have some serious problems with most of KoDT69's feats. But I don't have time to actually get into that right now, perhaps tomorrow I'll explain my misgivings about some of your fighter feats, and my suggestions for how you might change them (just to make sure you understand, I think you have some good ideas, but the mechanics are off)

But, to add something useful, I reviewed your feats, Maldraugedhen.



Drafted Bodyguard
Prereqs: Grappling Training, BAB +8, Str 15 Dex 13
Bonus: Melee attacks, magical attacks, and ranged attacks on the character while the character is grappling must be randomized with equal chance between the character and all members of the grapple hostile to the character. The character may choose not to use this ability on certain enemies in a grapple, essentially declaring an enemy as nonhostile for the purpose of this feat. In a grapple where the number of grapplers does not divide evenly onto a D6 or a D100, the character with this feat chooses who receives the smaller percentile chance (use the percentile dice if a situation such as this occurs).
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: Melee attacks and magical attacks are not randomized between different characters grappling.

Deflected Overrun
Prereqs: Dex 15 Improved Overrun
Bonus: After successfully overrunning an opponent during a charge movement, you may change directions to the left or right up to 45 degrees, with a maximum move distance equal to the distance you had remaining to move that turn. You receive a +2 bonus to the opposed Strength check in an overrun attack during a charge.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: You must overrun directly away from the direction you began the overrun action from in a charge. A charge provides no bonus to overrun attempts.

Sweeping Trip
Prereqs: Improved Trip, Str 15 or Dex 15
Bonus: Defenders to your trip attacks do not receive the bonus from being exceptionally stable (either due to being a dwarf or having multiple legs). You may choose to deal one half of the damage you would in a normal attack on the target character if your trip succeeds, in addition to the target becoming prone.
Special: A fighter may choose this as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A trip deals no damage, and exceptionally stable characters receive a +4 bonus against being tripped.

For the most part, those feats are great. Inventive, balanced, very well thought out and explained. With a couple exceptions, all of them would fit nicely into most campaigns.

Drafted Bodyguard- There are only a couple problems I see here; one is that your feat does not take into account the effects of a ranged attack from a character with Precise Shot (which negates the -4 penalty of shooting into melee, including grapples. I would rule that Drafted Bodyguard would not provide any benefit against the precise shot feat. Not that big a deal though, if you think you want the benefit to apply no matter what. But you should say whether it does or not in the feat description.
One major issue is that this feat should only provide benefits if you have control of the grapple at the time of the ranged attack. Otherwise you wouldn't really be able to position your opponents to possibly receive the attacks that were meant for you.

Deflected Overrun- The only change I'd make is to explain exactly what is going on when a character makes a Deflected Overrun. My assumption is that you are using the enemy you are knocking down to help change your direction, but it isn't clear.

Sweeping Trip- A few things to consider here. Number one is the ability to ignore the bonuses from multiple legs; no matter how good you are at tripping, you can't trip a giant centipede. period. You could make the feat really complicated and put some limit on the number of extra legs you can ignore, but thats a pretty big no-no as far as feats go. I'd just get rid of the ability to ignore defender's bonuses from being stable. Its a can of worms you do not want to open, trust me. And the +4 bonus to trip attacks from Improved Trip negates the standard +4 stability bonus anyways. Even with that ability removed, this feat is still quite powerful. Improved Trip, a perquisite for this feat, allows you to make an instant, free attack at your full base attack bonus against the creature you successfully tripped. With this feat, it means that you effectively do 1.5 times the damage from a normal attack for free.

So, I would change Sweeping Trip to simply allow you to deal 1/2 the damage of a normal attack automatically on a trip. This half damage attack is in addition to the free normal attack granted by improved trip. This means that, for example, a weapon enchanted with 'wounding' would deal constitution damage twice.

Grr
2007-04-10, 10:37 PM
There's nothing wrong with wizards really. It's how ray spells work that's the only issue. Change them to reflex saves instead of touch ac attacks and it solves that issue. Proper DM'ing that keeps any character, regardless of class, that is deemed overpowered in check, is the only real way to keep the game balanced, regardless of what any rules as written "supporters" may say otherwise. No amount of rules and numbers are going to make every class balanced with all the other classes. Never. It's up to the DM to keep their campaign balanced and tell the rules lawyers to be quiet.

Autarch
2007-04-11, 06:21 AM
Grr: I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat, but whether fighters 'need to be fixed' or whether wizards are 'overpowered' really isn't the purpose of this thread. From what I understand, it has become an attempt to make some good, balanced fighter feats that are or could be useful against wizards. I for one never like to see things degenerate into flame wars... and I'm not accusing you of starting one, its just that I've seen it happen before.

please please please please don't [B]anyone start arguing about whether wizards are overpowered. Argue about whether the feats suggested here are overpowered/underpowered, but don't argue about the classes, as it will accomplish nothing.
[end rant]

and, if any of that came across as extraordinarily snobbish, I apologize, it wasn't intended to be that way.

:tongue:

KoDT69
2007-04-11, 06:33 AM
And you are invited to share your opinion, even if you dislike my feats. Although I warn you, my mind is set, my group uses them, and they do exactly what I wanted them to do for my campaign's purpose. I made a fighter more useful.
Grr - I also agree that a lot of houserules get put into play to maintain your own campaign's balance. I have a lot myself. And yes, fudging the monsters sometimes because they say CR 8 but got owned in the first round by a 3rd level character. That suggests that the CR was off base, but that's another thread! :smallbiggrin:
To any that dislike the feats - If you're going to say "no it don't work that way" or "that's too powerful"... Try building a fighter with them, and compare to the other classes, and actually play it in a game. You will change your mind and realize that other classes are still more powerful. I respectfully decline any "these are overpowered" opinions for that reason, but please share anyways. I'm just saying I will still use them. :smallsmile:

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-11, 07:52 AM
Valid points, and edited as per your suggestions. I also added in the ability to choose between lethal and nonlethal damage from the trip attack's additional damage with the -4 to hit penalty for doing so. Although, it should be noted that the extra attack from Improved Trip (if I am reading the feat correctly) only happens when the trip attack succeeds. And your point about ability damage from weapons is one I hadn't considered. I think I'll rule that that is also halved, as you are not hitting your opponent in an especially vital area, so any alternative abilities the blades may have wouldn't be as effective either. On Drafted Bodyguard, rather than specifying solely Precise Shot as overcoming the damage, I added in that sneak attacks also ignore it and any attack type specifically geared towards accuracy (any attack type providing an inherent +3 or greater bonus to hit) could ignore it. Magic is still randomized, though--although should it be for nonprojectile spells? I'm thinking it might, because many spells require LOS to go off correctly anyway. Finally, on Deflected Overrun, I added in that you can elect to swap to a bulrush attempt after making a series of overruns, but the -4 cumulative penalty still applies.

Got any suggestions for an alternative name for Drafted Bodyguard, or Deflected Overrun? I don't much care for those names, but it was the best I could come up with during my lunch break. And if anybody else spots anything else that seems wrong--either overly powerful or unbalanced--pipe up. One last feat:

Pileup
Prereqs: Improved Bullrush, Str 17
Bonus: You may bullrush into additional opponents beyond the first. If a character friendly to the target of your bullrush is standing in a square you are attempting to bullrush into, you may push against the second character as well as the first, but must make a successful touch attack at -5 to your attack. If you fail, your bullrush attempt stops and you may not push either character. If you succeed, you have successfully begun pushing both characters. The new defender adds his strength check to the first defender, and for every five you beat their combined score by, you push the characters five feet. You may push as many characters as you can successfully exert a force on, but the -5 penalty to the touch attack is cumulative per character already being bullrushed, and the new defenders each get their own strength checks to add to the total. You may not pileup further than you may move. When a bullrush attempt ends with multiple targets having been pushed, with four or fewer Medium-equivalent targets being pushed in the same square, they all come to rest in the same square. For each target beyond the fourth in the same square, the newer targets come to rest one additional square behind. Beyond eight targets, randomize their locations between the square to the left of the one you pushed the initial group of four into and the square on the right, with a D2 roll for each man beyond the eighth. Your extensive practice pushing people around provides you with a +2 bonus to Bullrush attempts.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of her bonus feats if she fulfills the prereqs.
Normal: A character may only bullrush one other character in any given turn.

Autarch
2007-04-11, 12:26 PM
And you are invited to share your opinion, even if you dislike my feats. Although I warn you, my mind is set, my group uses them, and they do exactly what I wanted them to do for my campaign's purpose. I made a fighter more useful.
Grr - I also agree that a lot of houserules get put into play to maintain your own campaign's balance. I have a lot myself. And yes, fudging the monsters sometimes because they say CR 8 but got owned in the first round by a 3rd level character. That suggests that the CR was off base, but that's another thread! :smallbiggrin:
To any that dislike the feats - If you're going to say "no it don't work that way" or "that's too powerful"... Try building a fighter with them, and compare to the other classes, and actually play it in a game. You will change your mind and realize that other classes are still more powerful. I respectfully decline any "these are overpowered" opinions for that reason, but please share anyways. I'm just saying I will still use them. :smallsmile:

I agree. For me to say "that's too powerful" would be counterproductive. My suggestions focus more on changing the feats so they do the same things, but change them to fit within the standards for feats created by WoTC. That is to say, in most cases your feats will work fine, but sometimes they won't work at all, or in some situations it is impossible to determine how they should work.


Magical Defense Training (Removed the saving throw vs. no-save spells)
Prerequisites: BaB +6, 4 Ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge: Arcana
Benefit: Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana become class skills, and gain a +1 resilience bonus per 4 levels to all saves against spells.
First, clarifications: You say +1 bonus / 4 levels. 4 Character levels?, 4 levels in Fighter?, every 4 levels after you took this feat? every 4 fighter levels after you took this feat? I would suggest +1 per 4 fighter levels above fighter level 6, but its your feat. Also, with any bonus that increases as you gain levels, you need a maximum bonus. You should cap it at +4 at fighter level 18.
But I think there are more significant changes that need to be made. There are feats out there that make one or two skills class skills, and nothing else. You are making a feat that effectively combines the bonuses of two feats into one. Consider changing this feat into two new feats:

Arcane Intuition
prerequisites: Must be taken at 1st level
Effect: You have learned about spellcasting, even if you can't cast spells yourself. Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft are treated as class skills for you, and you may add Draconic as a free bonus language.

Arcane Defense
prerequisites: Bab +6, Arcane Intuition, no spellcasting ability
Effect: you have had focused training in defense against magic. Gain a +1 resilience bonus to saves against all spells that allow spell resistance. This bonus increases by +1 every 4 levels above fighter level 6 to a maximum of +4 at 18th level.

From here on out, you might not like my suggestions, but I'm trying to be as impartial as I can.


Resist Enfeeblement (Including extra ability drain effects)
Prerequisites: BaB +8, Magical Defense Training
Benefit: Gain the ability to resist ability score draining magical abilities such as Ray of Enfeeblement or Ray of Clumsiness in a similar mechanical manner a Rogue evades a breath weapon attack. This ability also provides resistance to other ability drain/damaging type attacks such as touch attacks from undead and poisons. Ability drain spells have no effect on a successful save.

Improved Resist Enfeeblement
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Resist Enfeeblement
Benefit: Functions as Resist Enfeeblement except ability drains have no effect on a successful save and only work at half power against the PC on a failed save.

These have some major issues. Firstly, resist enfeeblement is practically useless as far as ability draining spells go. I have not found a single ability draining spell that allows saves for half damage, so granting someone the ability to save for no damage instead of saving for half gives no real benefit. Instead of these two feats, I suggest you use this one:

Resist Drain
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You are skilled at resisting ability damaging spells. Any ability draining/damaging spell effects that allows spell resistance deals only half as much ability damage (rounded up). If the spell has additional effects beyond ability drain/damage, these effects are not changed in any way.

~~~

I need to double check the rules on grappling before I can comment on the other feats, but my gut feeling is that giving an effective increased size category is a bad idea, because it could have effects more far-reaching than granting the specific ability you wished to give with the feat. (ie: grappling larger opponents). Its quite possible (I need to check) that giving an increased size category would allow bizarre things like being able to swallow characters only a couple size categories below your own. And I'm not even going to try to deal with that level 20 feat, as I'm no expert in epic level abilities. But at first glance you need to consider the fact that you're allowing a feat to grant an ability that even a 9th level spell would not (ie: complete and constant immunity to certian 8th level spells).

Neko
2007-04-11, 03:43 PM
I like that one that counts you as two size catagories larger.. my friend who is working on becoming a reaping mauler would like it so he could eventually take on much larger monsters like he wants.. while my dwarf rogue sneakattaks them or shoves a barral of blasting powder down their throat

Autarch
2007-04-11, 06:58 PM
Magical Barrier Defense (Changed the 10 factor to a 1d20 roll)
Prerequisites: BaB +8, Magical Defense Training
Benefit: Gain the ability to attempt breaking magical binds or moving magical barricades. Examples include breaking open a Forcecage spell, pushing over a Wall of Force (a slow action that can’t be used to damage others), breaking a Hold Person spell, or grappling a wizard that has cast Freedom on himself. (Have you hugged your wizard today?) Breaking the magical barrier consumes an action equal to the type of action is was cast with. Example: A Quickened Forcecage is a swift action, so the PC must use a swift action to break it open (if the check is successful).
Check: 1d20 + STR Modifier + total Weapon Focus benefit vs. Spell DC

I see some major room for improvement with this feat. First, the prerequisite needs to be a higher level. When making new feats or new spells, the official rule of thumb is that if the new feat or spell is so much better than all the others of its level you can't see anyone not taking it, its too low in level. Compare this feat with the other 'best' bab+8 feats, like improved critical. It is far superior, so I'm changing the prerequisite to bab+12.
Also, your explanation of the 'Benefit' is just a list of possible examples; the feat would require the DM to make a new ruling every time a player used it. Also, some of the effects you want this feat to be able to do are not feasible within the rules of dnd. For example, if the spell description for 'wall of force' states that the wall is immune to damage and can't be moved, the wall is immune to damage and can't be moved. Even if you could 'move' it, it can't be 'knocked over': the wall is not some physical object resting on the ground; if the ground were to disappear from underneath a wall of force, it would effectively float in the air in it's original position. So, scraping your original wording entirely, I think you should use this instead (which accomplishes the same thing, but uses existing rules; you even get to negate walls of force :smalltongue:)

Break Magical Barrier
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You have a talent for bypassing magical barriers. When you encounter any immobile magical barrier of any sort, you have a chance at ignoring it, or removing it altogether. (arcane lock, force cage, wall of force and wall of ice are examples of immobile barriers. Mobile barriers are spells such as mage armor, or Bigby’s forceful Hand). As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you may make an attempt to bypass the spell (you must be touching the barrier for the entire round, or the attempt fails automatically). Roll 1d20 +1 per fighter level, to a maximum of +20 at 20th level. The DC for this check is 11+the spell’s caster level. If you succeed, the spell cannot directly affect you in any way. (if a wall of wind blows something into you, you still take damage even if you bypassed the wall) If you succeed on this check by 10 or more, you dispel the spell entirely, as if by dispel magic. During the full round action you use to bypass the barrier, you must maintain concentration as if you were casting a spell, or the attempt fails for that round (you can try again on your next turn).



Mobile Defense Training (Small clarification)
Prerequisites: BaB +6, DEX 14
Benefit: Gain the ability to take a full attack action against a charging foe, mounted charging foe, or against a flying creature swooping at the PC. This is a readied action from the previous round to allow maximum effectiveness. These attacks are not considered to be Attacks of Opportunity. If a PC is set to receive a charge with a designated reach weapon, only the first attack is double damage.

See my comments above for why this feat needs to be changed to BaB +8. I’m a little unsure about allowing a full attack; that’s far too open ended. Instead, try this:

Destructive Defenses

Prerequisites: BaB +8, Dex 17
Benefit: Once per round, you may make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a charging foe that is within you reach. (the foe must be attacking you.) This attack is in addition to any attacks of opportunity you may gain against the charging foe, and is in addition to any readied actions you took against that foe. (so if you readied an attack against a charge, you gain that attack and the free attack from this feat) This attack is resolved before the target’s attack if they are attacking you. Note that a flying creature making a flyby attack, or a mounted character making a ride-by attack also qualify as charging characters for the purpose of this feat.



Mobile Grapple Training (Reduced size category)
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 14
Benefit: Gain the ability to make a grapple check against a mounted charging foe or against a flying creature swooping at the PC to climb onto the foe. The PC is considered 1 size category larger for this maneuver.

Overcome Size Limitation
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 14, Mobile Grapple Training
Benefit: The PC has learned complex techniques that allow him to match strengths with or even topple enormous beasts. The PC is always considered 2 size categories larger for any grappling maneuvers.

Rather than allowing the PC to be treated as one size category larger (which creates problems with aspects of grappling such as more than two creatures in a grapple), you should instead just grant a +4 bonus to all grapple checks in Mobile Grapple Training, and a +8 to the check in Overcome Size Limitation. That’s the only bonus being one size category larger would give you anyways, and it avoids complications such as ‘what do you do if you are enchanted with enlarge person, and use this feat?’. You should change the names of the feats to represent what they actually do. For instance, Master Grappler and Superior Grappler, respectively.



Shrug It Off (Increased requirements)
Prerequisites: BaB +20, CON 14, Endurance, Die Hard, Steadfast Determination
Benefit: The PC has become battle hardened against all forms of massive spell damage. He takes only half damage from any area damage spells or breath weapons, save for a quarter. Any spells with an effect that also have a lesser effect on a save like Finger of Death become sub-optimal against the PC. The PC takes only the lesser effect, save for no effect.

I’ve avoided saying it for every single one of your previous feats, but here it is; the dreaded words. This feat is overpowered. You are making a feat that does what no 9th level spell can do, even for a duration of 1 round per level. And this feat gives that extraordinarily powerful ability all the time. Not only does he gain the benefits of Improved Evasion (a high level ability reserved for certain classes that focus on being evasive, and not available as a general feat), you also give immunity to death attacks of any and all levels. There is a spell that gives immunity to death attacks, with a limited duration, and only spells that are lower level that the immunity spell… and he gets to make a save for something that does not allow a save at all (the damage from finger of death or disintegration, for example). No matter which way I look at it, even if you consider the level 20 prerequisite in addition to a bunch of sub-par feat prerequisites, this is just too overpowered. But, it wouldn't be very kind of me to bash your skill like that without suggesting an alternative. Here it is:

Shrug it Off

Prerequisites: BaB +12, Endurance, Die Hard, Steadfast Determination
Benefit: you are harder to kill with death effects. Once per day per 5 levels (maximum of 4 at level 20), you may completely ignore the effects of a single death effect spell or spell-like ability as if you had made a successful save. You must declare your use of this ability before you roll your save against the death effect. In addition, at all times you gain a +4 resistance bonus to your saves against death effects, and even if you fail your save, you are only reduced to 0 hit points rather than killed outright. The benefits of this feat also apply to death vs. massive damage as well. Any time you would be killed from massive damage, you are instead brought to 0 hit points.

KoDT69
2007-04-11, 08:40 PM
Autarch last post magically summed up in one line :smallbiggrin:

Actually, not sure if you would expect this response, but I like a lot of what you suggested. I too thought Shrug It Off was kinda tough, but I also think it's utter cheese that a 60hp wizard should just point a finger and a 20th level fighter bites the dust. That's also besides the point. I also do appreciate your careful wording and care taken to critique without condecending, kudos! And yes a couple of the feat names sucked, but I was putting them together at work and did not have excessive time to really do better, so thanks again for the name suggestions too! I shall revise and repost again accounting a lot of your ideas. Thanks again for the productive and respectful critique!

And here they are...

Arcane Intuition
Prerequisites: Must be taken at 1st level
Benefit: You have learned about spellcasting, even if you can't cast spells yourself. Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft are treated as class skills for you, and you may add Draconic as a free bonus language.

Arcane Defense
Prerequisites: BaB +6, Arcane Intuition, No Spellcasting Ability
Benefit: Gain a +1 resilience bonus per 4 levels to all saves against spells that allow spell resistance to a max of +4.

Break Magical Barrier
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You have a talent for bypassing magical barriers. When you encounter any immobile magical barrier of any sort, you have a chance at ignoring it, or removing it altogether. Arcane Lock, Forcecage, Wall of Force and Wall of Ice are examples of immobile barriers. Mobile barriers such as Mage Armor or Bigby’s Forceful Hand are not affected by this feat. As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you may make an attempt to bypass the spell. You must be touching the barrier for the entire round, or the attempt fails automatically. Roll 1d20 +1 per level, to a maximum of +20. The DC for this check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed, the spell cannot directly affect you in any way. If a wall of wind blows something into you, damage is still taken even if you bypassed the wall. If you succeed on this check by 10 or more, you dispel the spell entirely, as if by dispel magic. During the full round action you use to bypass the barrier, you must maintain concentration as if you were casting a spell, or the attempt fails for that round. You can try again on the next round.

Resist Drain
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You are skilled at resisting ability damaging spells and effects. Any ability draining/damaging spell effects that allows spell resistance deals only half as much ability damage (rounded up). If the spell has additional effects beyond ability drain/damage, these effects are not changed in any way. This ability also provides resistance to other ability draining/damaging type attacks such as touch attacks from undead and poisons.

Destructive Defenses
Prerequisites: BaB +8, DEX 15
Benefit: Once per round, you may make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a charging foe that is within you reach and attacking you. This attack is in addition to any attacks of opportunity you may gain against the charging foe, and is in addition to any readied actions you took against that foe. If you readied an attack against a charge, you gain that attack and the free attack from this feat. This attack is resolved before the target’s attack on you. Note that a flying creature making a flyby attack, or a mounted character making a ride-by attack also qualify as charging characters for the purpose of this feat.

Master Grappler
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 15, STR 15
Benefit: Gain the ability to make a grapple check against a mounted charging foe or against a flying creature swooping at the PC to climb onto the foe. The PC gains a +4 competency bonus for this maneuver.

Superior Grappler
Prerequisites: BaB +12, DEX 15, STR 15
Benefit: The PC has learned complex techniques that allow him to match strengths with or even topple enormous beasts. The PC gains a +8 competency bonus for all grappling maneuvers.

Shrug It Off
Prerequisites: BaB +16, Endurance, Die Hard, Steadfast Determination
Benefit: The PC has become battle hardened against all forms of massive damage. Once per day per 5 levels to a maximum of 4, you may completely ignore the effects of a single death effect spell or spell-like ability as if you had made a successful save. You must declare your use of this ability before you roll your save against the death effect. In addition, at all times you gain a +4 resistance bonus to your saves against death effects, and even if you fail your save, you are only reduced to 0 hit points rather than killed outright. The benefits of this feat also apply to death vs. massive damage as well. Any time you would be killed from massive damage, you are instead brought to 0 hit points.

I took almost all of the suggestions given. I made Shrug It Off BaB +16 instead of 12 because it should be reserved for higher level play. Grappling feats changed to +4/+8 bonuses instead of the size category thing for clarity, added Arcane Intuition, and quite a few other changes.

Autarch
2007-04-11, 09:07 PM
:redface:

Glad to have helped

KoDT69
2007-04-11, 09:16 PM
I did say I was stubborn about using them, but never said unflexible to alter the mechanics.

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-12, 10:19 AM
Yeah, you've been a huge help, Autarch. I admit, I personally lack playing experience for D&D, but I have something of a knack for coming up with homebrew pencil-and-paper rules. Having someone with some gameplay experience will help make what I make usable. Now, let's see about how our homebrewed feats work together, KoDT...

Unhorsing Training combined with Destructive Defense is an obvious one. Should we allow the additional attack from Destructive Defense to gain the bonuses from Unhorsing Training?

Master Grappler + Grappling Training + Drafted Bodyguard + Diving Tackle = cheese, probably. I might hike up the requirements for Drafted Bodyguard or Diving Tackle, dunno--what do you guys think? Also, re-reading the rules for Grappling, there don't seem to be any rules for 'being in control' of the grapple as you mentioned, Autarch--although it would somewhat make sense that such rules would exist, I don't seem to be able to spot them on the D20 SRD. If you were referring to pinning, then I don't think it make sense for the purpose of the feat, as you can't move the pinned character to block yourself any more than the pinned character can move themselves. So I think I'll remove the 'in control of' line, unless you can clarify what you meant (because it was, as were the rest of them, a valid suggestion).

elliott20
2007-04-12, 12:15 PM
I feel that break magical barrier should be utilizing the spellcraft skill in some way, seeing as it is a prerequisite skill and all.

The mechanics for that so far gives me the image of a fighter touching a barrier and then have it blink out of existence, when I think a fighter's method of taking down a magic barrier would be to find it's "weak spot" within it's structure and striking it.

So in essence, we're creating a feat that allows the fighter to do the very thing that it couldn't do prior - exert force upon a force field affect and take it down.

I'm not sure how this can be done as the implication of allowing someone to strike down a forcefield changes the game dramatically. (Not to mention we'd have to actually come up with the hardness and HP for the damn thing.)

However, I think if we are going to let fighters break magic barriers, it shouldn't be in the form of dispelling more so than just punching through it.

So I think a mechanic where they have to first use a spellcraft check to find a weak spot, and then attemptting to strike it down would be more appropriate.

Neko
2007-04-12, 12:23 PM
Question... for the Overcome Size Limitation Feat... would it be plausible to give a feat like that to someone with ECL 12 who took fighter till he went Reaping Mauler? Cause in my opinoin.. thats a perfect feat for a reaping mauler type character.

Autarch
2007-04-12, 01:07 PM
Yeah, you've been a huge help, Autarch.
<<snip>>
Autarch--although it would somewhat make sense that such rules would exist, I don't seem to be able to spot them on the D20 SRD. If you were referring to pinning, then I don't think it make sense for the purpose of the feat, as you can't move the pinned character to block yourself any more than the pinned character can move themselves. So I think I'll remove the 'in control of' line, unless you can clarify what you meant (because it was, as were the rest of them, a valid suggestion).

Heh, and here I am, only a pixie :smalltongue:
As far as control of the grapple,I based what I said off of the movement rules while grappled. It was incorrect to say you need to have 'control' of the grapple, my mistake. But you would need to make a grapple check any round you needed to use the feat, gaining a +4 bonus on the check if you have your opponent pinned. Compare it to the rules on movement:


Move

You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions), and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.
Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#pinned) opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple.




The mechanics for that so far gives me the image of a fighter touching a barrier and then have it blink out of existence, when I think a fighter's method of taking down a magic barrier would be to find it's "weak spot" within it's structure and striking it.

Its a full round action, describe it however you want. The d20 check to bypass the spell is based off of the caster level check needed when a mage uses dispel magic. Basically, the fighter, who cannot use magic without losing the prerequisite for this feat, knows how to disrupt certain stationary spells. He isn't just touching it, he is spending an entire round doing 'something' to it. I never presumed to describe what it was, I was just trying to help with the feat mechanics. You can say that the full round action involves finding a weakness, and then stabbing it with a sword or smashing it with a hammer. The d20+fighter level check is still required, but the action can be described in whatever way fits best with your campaign. There are no real-world examples to base this off of, so its really up to you. But I'd advise not giving any bonuses to the d20 check from spellcraft, or you risk unbalancing the feat.

XtheYeti
2007-04-12, 01:31 PM
i like all the feats, but size limitations should be one size that can stack with powerful build and stuff like that.

KoDT69
2007-04-12, 02:23 PM
Corrected original post with updated versions :smallbiggrin:

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-12, 09:33 PM
Heh, and here I am, only a pixie :smalltongue:
1. I have a feeling that isn't going to last long,
2. I only just got to halfling last week,
3. You still know what you're doing, and are being very helpful. Double thumbs up.

As to your comments on grapple control--I think forcing an opposed grapple check anytime you wanted to use this feat might make too many rolls in a given turn. The way I'm thinking of it, the only situation you wouldn't be able to put your opponents' bodies in the way of their allies is if you are pinned, they are pinned, or you are not trying. Regardless of whether you're dominant in the grapple, you're still able to twist around your opponent and get his back rather than yours facing his archer buddy.


But I'd advise not giving any bonuses to the d20 check from spellcraft, or you risk unbalancing the feat.
...Unless you just average your Spellcraft ability with your Fighter level ((Spellcraft + Fighter Level) / 2). Then it factors in Intelligence, any skill boosting feats that affect spellcraft, how many ranks you've invested in Spellcraft, and, of course, Fighter Level.

Autarch
2007-04-12, 09:38 PM
...Unless you just average your Spellcraft ability with your Fighter level ((Spellcraft + Fighter Level) / 2). Then it factors in Intelligence, any skill boosting feats that affect spellcraft, how many ranks you've invested in Spellcraft, and, of course, Fighter Level.

That works pretty well; even assuming full ranks in spellcraft and a good ability score, the check is only really increased by 2 or 3. And it insures you have to be good at spellcraft to be good at this. I like it alot :smallsmile:

Maldraugedhen
2007-04-12, 09:45 PM
I think it helps the flavor of the feat, too. It helps to be intelligent when trying to disable something with its own set of laws for existence.

On the balance side--people who take the feat without sticking points into Spellcraft are playing it more by ear, improvising and hoping they hack the right part of the physically impossible barrier. They would naturally be less capable than those who dedicate days of study to the effects of the arcane, and so would have a harder time using this feat. Since a mage hunter is going to have probably full ranks in Spellcraft, they get a slight boost above what it was before, and a dabbler in the field of arcane defense wouldn't have as easy a time of it.

Actually, a third variant idea just popped into my head... how about this for the check:
(Knowledge (Arcana) + Spellcraft) /2 + Fighter Level + 1D20 vs 10 + Caster Level + Level of spell being ignored + Spellcaster's Casting Attribute Modifier

This makes it much more similar to a Dispel check, and makes the numbers being used higher. It tilts the overall equation in favor of Fighters dedicated to hunting wizards, even against high level wizards with large attribute modifiers.

Just crunched the numbers for the minimum and maximum of the two proposed setups--a max level fighter with max ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft going against a max level caster with an Int of 24 casting a ninth level spell can only fail on a one in the second system (positive 17 modifier and must beat 0), and needs to beat a 19 (minus Int modifier) in the first. At 1st level with no ranks in either Knowledge (Arcana) or Spellcraft against a first level caster casting a level 0 spell with an int of 14 needs to beat an 11 plus int in the first system, and a 3 plus int in the second.

So the Spellcraft system produces a more sensible range, and we can tweak the base DC to make it more reasonable. We should probably go with that one, then.

Maldraugedhen
2007-05-10, 01:54 PM
Had another idea for a pretty good fighter vs. fighter defensive feat.


Up and Over

As your opponent charges, you get below them and lift them from the ground, sending them flying through the air to land sprawled behind you.

Prerequisites: Power Attack, Improved Bullrush or Improved Overrun

Benefit: If you are the target of an overrun attempt or a bullrush attempt in a round where you may make a special attack of opportunity if you do not sidestep the attack. An Up and Over attack may only be made against creatures of the same size category or smaller, unless the character has 15 or more strength, in which case they may also make an Up and Over attempt against creatures one size category larger. You must either have one hand free or be holding a shield smaller than Tower-size in order to make an Up and Over attempt. Make a touch attack against the character bullrushing or overrunning you as an attack of opportunity for this round, made at a -4 to hit if the opponent has the relevant Improved attack feat for the situation. If the touch attack succeeds, make a grapple check against the opponent at a +2 to the check. If you win the grapple check, the opponent moves to a position 5 feet behind your character from where they were charging from and is considered prone and stunned for one round. If you fail the grapple check or the touch attack, their attack continues as normal. If the character you successfully performed an Up and Over attack on lands in a tile in which other characters already were present, those other characters are also prone.

Normal: Only standard attacks of opportunity may be made against Bullrushing or Overrunning opponents, and only if they do not have the relevant Improved feat.

Erk
2007-05-11, 11:07 PM
Wowee, this is a fun thread. I'm going to pick up bits of the stuff in here and compile it into my Improved Spelltouch file, and add some bits of mesh (for example, after taking Arcane Intuition the fighter can select spelltouched feats as fighter bonus feats)

With some of these feats and a bit more added in, I think one could make a balanced fighter without sweeping mods to the class. I think my only personal change to the class itself then would be to give it a feat every level, instead of every 2. And add even more selection ;)

Maldraugedhen
2007-05-12, 12:52 PM
Just thought of another, be warned, it's a biggie:

Back-to-Back Fighting
You may occupy the same five foot by five foot square (or other size, depending on your character's size category) as one other character in a combat under certain conditions. The characters must be allied with each other, neutral characters will not generally speaking coordinate as well as this would require. Characters fighting back-to-back suffer a -4 to hit and to AC, as they do not have as much space to dodge around as they would fighting singly, however, there are many other defensive bonuses to fighting in this style. Two characters sharing the same square may not target the same enemy in the same round, nor any other enemies in a straight line behind the enemy their back-to-back ally targeted, as it is assumed they are fighting with their backs to each other. A character fighting back-to-back cannot be targeted by an enemy the other character is fighting or in a straight line behind the enemy the other character is fighting, as they are concealed by their ally's body. Both characters act at the initiative of the slower character in order to synchronize their actions. You do not need to be the same size category as your ally to use this feat, however, the other squares your character occupies cannot completely surround the square your ally occupies or vice versa, and what targets you may select and they may select are determined by the relative position of the characters. For example, here is a large character and a medium character fighting back-to-back:
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9913/backtobackfightingfi4.gif
The large character is the only one of the two who can target the blue squares, and the medium character is the only one who can target the red. The purple squares are square either may target, but they may not both target the same purple square in a given round. Likewise, enemies in the blue squares may not target the medium character, and enemies in the red square may not target the large character. The two characters can each move around the rim of the other character with 5-foot steps only, and the target-able regions for that character change accordingly. Here is a situation where the character's size categories differ by two or more:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9148/backtobackfighting2ts7.gif
Two characters fighting back-to-back in the same size category may only move five feet per round, and each provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. Spells that have an area of effect must check for each character individually, and spells that only target one character only target one or the other. Bullrush or overrun attempts must target both characters, and the strength check uses the sum of the two character's strengths. Neither character may elect to sidestep if one is bullrushed or overrun--the are fighting too closely together to do this. Tumble checks must likewise be made against both characters. An enemy targeted by one of the characters fighting back-to-back cannot flank for the other back-to-back character for one of its allies.


Improved Back-to-Back Fighting
Prereqs: Combat Finesse, Dex 15+
Benefit: This character subtracts two from the penalty she and her ally takes to hit and to AC for fighting back-to-back, and enables the pair to move an additional five feet per turn. If both characters fighting back to back have this feat, the bonuses therefore double.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as one of their bonus feats.
Normal: Fighting back-to-back provides a -4 penalty to hit and to AC, and forces the characters fighting back-to-back to move 5 feet per round if they wish to continue counting as fighting 'back-to-back'.

Erk
2007-05-12, 06:51 PM
A suggestion: Rather than have Arcane Defense require that the taker be unable to cast magic (which raises problems: what if I take Arcane Defense, then multiclass to wizard?), howabout this?

Arcane Intuition
Though you yourself are incapable of magic, you've always had a knack for understanding how it works.
Prerequisites: None if taken at 1st level; otherwise counts as 2 feat slots and requires Will +2 and 5 ranks in either Knowledge Arcana or Spellcraft.
Benefit: You have learned about spellcasting, even if you can't cast spells yourself. Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft are treated as class skills for you, and you may add Draconic as a free bonus language. You may select a Spelltouched feat for which you are qualified as a bonus feat any time your class is offered a bonus feat.
Special: Characters with Arcane Intuition can never learn arcane magic. A character with arcane magic can never take Arcane Intuition.

Erk
2007-05-12, 08:49 PM
OK, I have revamped these feats for my own campaign. Check them out, yo.

Some feats have had their requirements turned down a little, and some a lot, based on either the level of magic in my campaign (high, meaning fighters might not live long without a bit of defense) or me thinking they were just too steep for the effect.


Arcane Intuition
Though you yourself are incapable of magic, you've always had a knack for understanding it.
Prerequisites: Must be taken at 1st level; otherwise counts as 2 feat slots and requires 5 ranks in either Knowledge: Arcana or Spellcraft.
Benefit: You have learned about spellcasting, even if you can't cast spells yourself. Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft are treated as class skills for you, and you may add Draconic as a free bonus language. You may select a Spelltouch feat for which you are qualified as a bonus feat any time your class is offered a bonus feat.
Special: Characters with Arcane Intuition can never learn arcane magic. A character with arcane magic can never take Arcane Intuition. This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Arcane Defense
Through expertise and knowledge of the fundamentals of magical principles, you have trained your mind to better resist magical effects.
Prerequisites: BaB +4, Arcane Intuition
Benefit: Gain a +1 resilience bonus per 4 levels to all saves against spells that allow spell resistance to a max of +4. Characters with spellcasting ability require DM approval to take this feat (arcane casters can never take it, as it requires Arcane Intuition).
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Break Magical Barrier
Your intuition towards magic, specifically as related to destroying it, allows you to detect minute weak points in magical barriers thought to be indestructible. With a swift attack, you can shatter spells as though they were physical objects.
Prerequisites: BaB +8, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You have a talent for bypassing magical barriers. When you encounter any immobile magical barrier (whose spellcasting has a duration other than Instantaneous) of any sort, you have a chance at ignoring it, or removing it altogether. Arcane Lock, Forcecage, and Wall of Force are examples of immobile barriers. Spells such as Wall of Ice do not create magical barriers; rather, they conjure a mundane barrier which can be destroyed by mundane methods, and so are unaffected. Mobile barriers such as Mage Armor or Bigby’s Forceful Hand are not affected by this feat. As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you may make an attempt to bypass the spell. You must be touching the barrier for the entire round, or the attempt fails automatically. Roll 1d20 +1 per level, to a maximum of +20. The DC for this check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed, the spell cannot directly affect you in any way. If a wall of wind blows something into you, damage is still taken even if you bypassed the wall. If you succeed on this check by 10 or more, you dispel the spell entirely, as if by dispel magic. During the full round action you use to bypass the barrier, you must maintain concentration as if you were casting a spell, or the attempt fails for that round. You can try again on the next round.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Resist Drain
Your understanding of magic, and more importantly of your own capabilities, lets you avoid much of the effect of draining attacks. While the magic itself is still there, you can work around it and significantly lessen its impact on your performance.
Prerequisites: BaB +12, Arcane Defense
Benefit: You are skilled at resisting ability damaging spells and effects. Any ability draining/damaging spell effects that allows spell resistance deals only half as much ability damage (rounded up). If the spell has additional effects beyond ability drain/damage, these effects are not changed in any way. This ability also provides resistance to other ability draining/damaging type attacks such as touch attacks from undead and poisons.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Destructive Defenses
You've faced many a charge, and know how to deal with them.
Prerequisites: BaB +8, DEX 15
Benefit: Once per round, you may make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a charging foe that is within you reach and attacking you. This attack is in addition to any attacks of opportunity you may gain against the charging foe, and is in addition to any readied actions you took against that foe. If you readied an attack against a charge, you gain that attack and the free attack from this feat. This attack is resolved before the target’s attack on you. Note that a flying creature making a flyby attack, or a mounted character making a ride-by attack also qualify as charging characters for the purpose of this feat.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Flying Tackle
Always ready for a good wrestle, you can leap into the air and take down opponents on horseback or even airborne enemies. This technique never ceases to surprise your foes.
Prerequisites: BaB +6, DEX 17, STR 15
Benefit: You can make a grapple check against a mounted charging foe or against a flying creature swooping at you to climb onto the foe. You get a +4 competency bonus for this maneuver the first time you use it on an opponent, and +2 every time thereafter.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Giant Grappler
You've mastered the art of taking down beasts far larger than you in a grapple. Pesky little runts are still pesky, but those ogres are just fun.
Prerequisites: BaB +8, STR 19, Flying Tackle
Benefit: You gain a +4 competency bonus for all grappling maneuvers against opponents of a larger size than you.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Shrug It Off
Your will-to-live is more powerful than any magic, letting you resist instant-death spells and death by trauma. While you may survive such attacks, they can still bring you to your knees and leave you helpless.
Prerequisites: BaB +14, Diehard, CON 19
Benefit: You have become battle hardened against all forms of massive damage. Once per day per 5 levels to a maximum of 4 times per day at 20th level, you may completely ignore the effects of a single death effect spell or spell-like ability as if you had made a successful save. You must declare your use of this ability before you roll your save against the death effect. In addition, at all times you gain a +4 resistance bonus to your saves against death effects, and even if you fail your save, you are only reduced to 0 hit points rather than killed outright. The benefits of this feat apply to death vs. massive damage as well. Any time you would be killed from massive damage, you are instead brought to 0 hit points.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

And here are my own feats, designed to raise AC for fighters who have chosen to be more versatile with their stats. Note that "dodge" bonus may also be parry, of course.
Artful Dodger
After watching an opponent for a moment, you are able to predict his next attack and prepare for it.
Prerequisites: Dodge, INT 13
Benefit: Your Dodge bonus to AC (as granted by the dodge feat) increases by 1.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Brilliant Dodger
You're very skilled at predicting the flow of a battle, and using it to stay out of the way of attacks.
Prerequisites: Artful Dodger, INT 17
Benefit: You gain an additional 1 point of dodge bonus to AC: this is against all opponents, not just a declared opponent.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Careful Dodger
You pay attention during combat, which gives you a split-second edge when it comes time to avoid attacks.
Prerequisites: Dodge, WIS 13
Benefit: Your Dodge bonus to AC (as granted by the dodge feat) increases by 1.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Sagacious Dodger
You have an uncanny ability to focus on the combat around you, maintaining constant awareness of the battlefield.
Prerequisites: Careful Dodger, WIS 17
Benefit: You gain an additional 1 point of dodge bonus to AC: this is against all opponents, not just a declared opponent.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Lucky Dodger
You meant to do that.
Prerequisites: Dodge, CHA 13
Benefit: Your Dodge bonus to AC (as granted by the dodge feat) increases by 1.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.

Graceful Dodger
Somehow, you always manage to duck at the right moments, raise your weapon to block arrows, swish your hair to avoid spells, and make it look intentional. This is irritating to others, but undeniably stylish.
Prerequisites: Lucky Dodger, CHA 17
Benefit: You gain an additional 1 point of dodge bonus to AC: this is against all opponents, not just a declared opponent.
Special: This feat may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.I realise that with all these feats a fighter could have +7 to dodge AC against a single opponent and +3 against anything to which he isn't flatfooted. I don't think that is breaking; in fact, I think it is quite low for the feat and attribute investment required.

Triaxx
2007-05-12, 09:03 PM
And here's one I thought up while reading the topic:

Spell Striking
Prereq: BAB+6, [Knowledge(Arcana), Improved Counterspell, {Suggestions?}]
Effect: Having been the target of a wizards direct damage spells, you have developed the skill to deflect and sometimes reflect magical energy, such as Magic Missiles, Lightning bolts, or Burning Hands. Roll as attack with AC equal to (10+spell level+Caster INT Modifier).

Erk
2007-05-13, 04:21 AM
Some more, from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44108). Intercept idea was Talanic's.

Weak though. It is a bit of an iffy matter to hit at all, you lose the benefit of your shield afterwards (doesn't say whether you succeed or fail) and you could lose the shield altogether.

With some derivative feats to reduce those penalties it gets better. Here is my take (I have been looking for shield feats for my homebrew campaign too :)

Intercept [General]
You can use your shield to entirely absorb attacks against you.
Benefit: Once per round you can interpose your shield between yourself and a non-critical attack against yourself or anything within the area threatened by your shield. Roll 1d20, adding any attack bonuses you have to Shield Bash, and adding the Shield AC as well. If this is greater than the attack roll against you, you have successfully intercepted the attack. Your shield takes damage from the attack, and may be destroyed, and you lose your shield bonus to AC for the rest of the round. Subtract your shield's armour check penalty from attempts to protect anything not occupying the same space as you; such attempts provoke attacks of opportunity from anything threatening your space (not the protected target's space).

If the damage inflicted to your shield was enough to shatter your shield entirely, 1/2 of any leftover damage is carried through to you.

Interceptions may be used against any spell with you as the target (including touch spells). In these cases, the caster may add his spell DC - 10 to the opposed attack roll (only for the purposes of determining if the intercept was successful); spells which do not normally require an attack roll, such as magic missile, still need one for the purposes of determining if the interception was successful. If the spell has any option to inflict damage, that damage is inflicted on your shield. Any other effects are nullified (special effect spells which only inflict damage on a successful save use that damage). Spells with a particular effect against nonliving matter, such as disintegrate, use that effect on your shield (assuming your shield isn't alive).

Improved Intercept [General]
You can use your shield to entirely absorb attacks against you.
Prerequisites: Intercept
Benefit: You do not lose your shield bonus to AC after an intercept attempt. Additionally, you gain a +4 on all Intercept attempts. Intercepting to protect something nearby no longer provokes an attack of opportunity.

Deflecting Block [General]
Not only does your shield intercept damage against you, but it is nearly undamaged by such attempts.
Prerequisites: Improved Intercept, Improved Shield Bash
Benefit: Add your Base Attack Bonus to your shield's hardness rating when you make an Interception.

Reverberating Block [General]
You can lash back hard, twisting your shield against a melee attack with your shield. Your opponent's weapon flies aside, putting him off-balance.
Prerequisites: Improved Intercept, Improved Disarm
Benefit: After you successfully make an Intercept against the attack, your opponent must make a Reflex save or be flatfooted until his next turn. If he fails his save by more than 10, your opponent is also Disarmed. Your shield takes normal damage from the enemy's attack, as with any Interception. Opponents with Uncanny Dodge are immune to being rendered flatfooted by this technique, but can still be disarmed.

Shattering Block [General]
You can meet an attack with your shield with full force of your own.
Prerequisites: Improved Intercept, Improved Sunder
Benefit: When you use your shield to intercept an attack, you can damage the attacking weapon for 1/2 of the damage from the attack (your shield still takes full damage from the attack as well). If your shield is destroyed during a Shattering Block attempt, the carryover damage to you is full, not halved.

Hasty Defender [General]
Prerequisites: Intercept, Base Attack Bonus 6+
Benefit: You can intercept attacks with your shield a number of times equal to your number of iterative attacks per round. Each iterative intercept check is lower than the last, exactly as with iterative attacks. For example, a Fighter with Base Attack Bonus 12 could make one Intercept attempt at full bonus, another at 5 less than his normal intercept check, and a final at 10 less than his normal check.

Defensive Flanking [General]
Benefit: Add a +2 flanking bonus to your Intercept checks for every ally within your shield's threatened space. The total bonus cannot exceed your Base Attack Bonus.

Spell Interception [General]
You have worked out ways to use your shield to not just block spells, but interrupt spells used against it.
Prerequisites: Intercept, Arcane Intuition
Benefit: When you successfully intercept a spell, that spell is completely nullified and does not damage your shield. You gain a +2 to attempts to intercept spells.

Maldraugedhen
2007-05-13, 03:16 PM
Realized the implications for flanking for Back-to-Back Fighting, and added those in.

Erk
2007-05-14, 12:26 AM
Updated my post about intercept to match changes in the intercept thread. Note this feat, which is more pertinent to our discussion:

Spell Interception
You have worked out ways to use your shield to not just block spells, but interrupt spells used against it.
Prerequisites: Intercept, Arcane Intuition
Benefit: When you successfully intercept a spell, that spell is completely nullified and does not damage your shield. You gain a +2 to attempts to intercept spells.

Maldraugedhen
2007-05-14, 10:44 AM
What do people think of Up and Over and Back-to-Back Fighting?

Demented
2007-05-14, 04:34 PM
Back-to-back fighting should be a normally-available special action, where there's more room to explain everything that needs doing. The feat should simply provide bonuses/reduce penalties when fighting in that situation.

Up and Over, well... I stopped reading halfway through, under the logic that if an Up and Over attempt requires that much explanation without explaining what it actually is, it's probably not worth doing.

Both of them should be greatly simplified and organized, both in explanation and implementation. Look for a more elegant way to do everything.

Edit: I do like back-to-back fighting! Gives me this mental image of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie for some reason, though.... :smallwink:

Erk
2007-05-14, 04:35 PM
They both seem cool, particularly back-to-back fighting, but they need a lot of streamlining. There are way too many mechanics there for a basic combat feat; I'd be pretty irritated having to print that out, tag it to my char sheet, and get the GM to reread it every time I used it.

Maldraugedhen
2007-05-14, 06:38 PM
Good idea about turning it into a basic combat action, Demented--I guess I was somewhat already writing it in that style. I'll split it up. Also took your recommendation for Up and Over, and reduced the second half--turned it into an opposed grapple check, rather than a complex strength check, and explained what was actually going on in the check. It's now essentially starting a grapple against a charging opponent to throw them on the floor behind you, at a bonus to the first grapple check.

Erk
2007-05-14, 07:37 PM
First, put the fluff stuff at the top (ie. what the check represents) and the mechanics in the main body, so that it is separated and easier to read. Then consider putting the mechanics into an easily to read list.

I suggest breaking it down a bit more too, but i have to go teach a class. More later.

Malroth
2007-05-15, 05:00 PM
Tatical Familarity:

Reqs: Int 13+, Fighter 2+, Knowledge (Tactics) 3 ranks,
Benefit: When an opponent attempts a combat manuver that they have previously performed this encounter, Make an opposed Knowledge (Tactics) roll, If you succeed you recieve a +2 circumstance bonus to AC and a +2 circumstance bonus to Hit against that foe for one round.

Tactical Mastery:
reqs: Fighter 4+ Tatical Familarity, Knowledge (tactics) 5 ranks,
Benefit: As a standard action Make a Knowledge (tactics) roll Dc 10+number of opponents, if you succeed all allies within 15ft of you recieve a +2 circumstance bonus to attack rolls, and Initative checks for 1d4+1 round. This is a language dependant ability.

Tatical Expertese:
Reqs Fighter 6+ Int 15+, Tactical Mastery, Knowledge (Tactics) 8 ranks,
Benefit: At any point that you are Fighting an opponent that flanks you or otherwise denies you your Dexterity bonus to AC, You may as a immediate action, choose one opponent and make an opposed Knowledge (Tactics) roll, If it succeeds, you are no longer concidered flanked or flat footed and may make an immediate attack of opportunity against all opponents withn weapon range.

Roll with the Punches:
Reqs Bab 6+ con 15+
Benefits: anytime you recieve physical damage you may make a fortitude save Dc 10+ the damage delt, If successful you recieve only half the damage from that attack.
Special: This does not stack with damage reduction, You may choose weither to use this feat or your damage reduction with each source of physical damage.

Strike of insight
Reqs: Fighter 8+, Skill focus(sense motive) Wis 15+
Benefit: As a standard action, Make a Sense motive check opposed by the opponents Bluff skill, If successful your opponent looses any automatic miss chance asscoiated with concealment or invisibility from your attacks.

Matthew
2007-05-20, 03:54 PM
I am not sure Tactical Familiarity and Tactical Expertise should use Opposed Knowledge (Tactics) Rolls. It seems like the Fighter with this obscure Skill and Feat will always have the advantage. Maybe the Opponent should be able to use his BAB as a Modifier?

Strike of Insight seems quite good, but I wonder if it isn't a bit powerful, as the way I read it, a Character can technically use this Feat to overcome 100% Concealment .

[I]Roll with the Punches seems very powerful. Maybe it should grant DR?