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ExHunterEmerald
2007-04-07, 12:27 PM
Howdy howdy, folks.
Okay, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but...
I'm starting a game of my own, and one of my players is a warblade.
A TWF warblade.
That's gonna be an issue, since most strikes are standard actions. Is there any real way to work TWF (without going Tiger Claw) into ToB maneuvers?

My current solution is to allow a maneuver to be used as part of a full attack, but the effects of the strike will only apply for the first of any attacks.

Thoughts?

martyboy74
2007-04-07, 12:30 PM
Sure, why not. It's not like TWF is overpowered. There are several maneuvers that apply bonus damage to attacks or otherwise help TWFers, in all of the disciplines (Maybe not setting sun).

lord_khaine
2007-04-07, 12:34 PM
i think that will be a bit overpowered, those maneuvers who require a standart action to activate is balanced out from the fact that you lose the rest of your attacks doing so.

do remember, that you can still get the benefit of stances and boosts, and there is no rule that says you have to use a strike each round.

Counterspin
2007-04-07, 12:35 PM
But warblades have access to Tiger Claw. Why avoid the useful school for your build?

Indon
2007-04-07, 02:00 PM
You could allow them to take a feat that lets them use a second maneuver with their off-hand weapon?

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-07, 02:08 PM
Swordsages do TWF a bit better, but Warblades get access to the best thing around for TWF: the Stormguard Warrior tactical feat.

As for Strikes, some do let you make a full attack (Pouncing Charge, for example), but mostly, the TWF character needs to stick with Boosts (like Dancing Mongoose).

Zincorium
2007-04-07, 05:26 PM
If you're doing some sort of unarmed TWF route, Snap Kick is good for getting in an additional attack whenever executing a strike.

Lord Tataraus
2007-04-07, 08:19 PM
Allowing him to preform a maneuver during a full attack is definitely overpowered. That is one of the reasons why some of the maneuvers are standard actions. I would suggest you don't mess with the maneuver system since it is already very good and does not require fixing in any way. One of my players had a cohort warblade wielding two kukri's and he just used tiger claw a lot, but used many other maneuvers and owned in combat (even though he was a few levels lower than everyone else). Tiger claw is allowed to warblades so they can do amazing TWF.

Kultrum
2007-04-07, 08:23 PM
most maneuvers are standard actions so you don't get an attack with both weapons anyway

Quietus
2007-04-07, 08:52 PM
Maybe if they have Haste on, let them take a full round action to use two standards, so long as both are used for a maneuver?

::Edit:: Sweet, no longer an orc in the playground!

Dausuul
2007-04-07, 10:25 PM
Howdy howdy, folks.
Okay, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but...
I'm starting a game of my own, and one of my players is a warblade.
A TWF warblade.
That's gonna be an issue, since most strikes are standard actions. Is there any real way to work TWF (without going Tiger Claw) into ToB maneuvers?

My current solution is to allow a maneuver to be used as part of a full attack, but the effects of the strike will only apply for the first of any attacks.

Thoughts?

Hmm. You're coming at this from the DM's perspective rather than the player's, so...

Here's my suggestion: In the next encounter, make sure this player finds a Desert Wind cloak as part of the loot. Ideally, put it on a bad guy warblade who uses it to get Burning Blade, jacking up his damage per attack by (1d6 plus initiator level) whenever he activates it. Hopefully your player will then be inspired to use it the same way.

Have you talked to the player about his build? Is there a reason he's opposed to using Tiger Claw, which is, after all, the school specifically built for TWF? Is he open to suggestions from you on what maneuvers and stances to get?

A warblade can do TWF quite well, but as with any build, it only works if the player knows what s/he is doing.

Merlin the Tuna
2007-04-08, 01:42 AM
Now I'm not trying to make the claim that magic and maneuvers are the same thing here (as they're completely different), but allowing multiple strikes is as bad an idea as allowing multiple spells to be cast (without Quicken) in a turn. There's a reason why Haste got changed from 3.0 to 3.5.

That said, TWF works pretty well with ToB. Tiger Claw is a two-weapon fighting-centric discipline that your player has access to as a Warblade. If he's not using it, well, he made a conscious decision to do something dumb. <Shrug> Aside from that, you can look for good boosts to help out (most of these are from Swordsage disciplines, though), grab pounce and eat up all the charge maneuvers (lots of White Raven, and Diamond Mind has got at least one), or milk Stormguard Warrior for all it's worth. Again, though, Tiger Claw is there specifically for TWF, and all of those suggestions can be accomplished with it.

Jack Mann
2007-04-08, 01:59 AM
Yeah. Not using tiger claw is like not taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. Or like playing a rogue and using a greatsword. He's purposely gimping himself for no real reason.

Perhaps you should remind him that he doesn't need to take on all of the flavor of the Tiger Claw discipline. He can describe his maneuvers however he wants.

Darrin
2007-04-08, 01:50 PM
Howdy howdy, folks.
Okay, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but...
I'm starting a game of my own, and one of my players is a warblade.
A TWF warblade.
That's gonna be an issue, since most strikes are standard actions. Is there any real way to work TWF (without going Tiger Claw) into ToB maneuvers?


Could you be more specific about which maneuvers he has? Almost all of the ToB maneuvers are pretty balanced, and work perfectly as designed. If it takes a standard action, then it usually works well as a standard action.
There are plenty of other maneuvers that are swift actions or full-attack actions. And if a particular maneuver isn't working, then Warblades have the easiest time switching out old maneuvers for new ones.

So I guess I need to be convinced there's genuinely a problem here before you start tossing around house rules.

kailin
2007-04-08, 03:07 PM
Make him play by the rules. Letting him use a *standard action* as part of a full attack is giving him extra power he doesn't need.

Supposedly, he's giving up his full attack to activate the maneuver, so why would he get extra attacks anyway?

And honestly, if anything, Bo9S makes TWF a more viable build. Tell him to take some Tiger Claw and deal with it.

Yuki Akuma
2007-04-08, 04:04 PM
If he purposefully decides not to use Tiger Claw, that's his problem. Bending the rules to make his terribly suboptimal character slightly better is just absurd.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-04-08, 04:19 PM
DM: Here you go, I heard you were dying of thirst and brought something for you to drink.
Player: What the- Coke? Bleh. I prefer Pepsi.
DM: Well, I'm sorry about that. Still, here you go.
Player: No, screw that. Pepsi or nothing.
DM: But you- you're dying of thirst!
Player: Well I don't like the flavor of Coke. So I'm not touching it.

OzymandiasVolt
2007-04-08, 04:41 PM
Besides, since they're basically fighting styles, he would in-character be using an appropriately-matched weapon. For example, you don't go to a two-handed sword school where they teach two-handed sword techniques only to come out fighting with a pair of maces.