Help with a WISH

[Werdna]

Ok, so... The game is pathfinder, my halfling rogue has a wish he can use. the downside is a devil is the one granting it so it needs to be lawyer-ed up to the moon and beyond. our healer is an oracle ( i think) and she has no tongue or eyes. so far what i have worked out is "I wish for the one i know as (healer's name) to have all her organs, healthy and whole, but not lose any abilities from not having them." because she has no eyes she had developed blind-sense 30'. and i think it would be good for her to keep it.

thank you any and everyone for your help

I'll try to come back as often as i can to see what everyone says but i won't be able to come back as often as i would like. :smallannoyed: sorry

[Forrestfire]

If he's offering a Wish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wish), then ask him to use it to cast Regenerate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/regenerate) on the ally. No twists, no anything. It's on the safe list, so anything twisted in the wish will come directly from the devil adding in stipulations, which you honestly can't do much about... So it's probably safest to just go with a simple, hard-to-twist wish, rather than anything complex.

[M Placeholder]

Don't use it. That wish will come to bite you in the ass later for sure.

[endur]

So it's probably safest to just go with a simple, hard-to-twist wish, rather than anything complex.

I agree. If you go too formalistic, you are likely to leave an opening that can be twisted somewhere. So better to go with something simple.

[Forrestfire]

And, of course, Dark Sun Gnome is 100% right. The safest thing to do is to not take the wish.

Whether or not that's the most fun thing to do is up to you. I know that for me, if the character was willing, I would be taking a chance at a devil-twisted wish as fast as I could :smallamused:

... But that's because I enjoy to see Hilarity ensue on my characters, and it's an incredibly easy avenue to cause that. :smallbiggrin:

[Belial_the_Leveler]

"I wish that [insert ally name] organs were regenerated as per the spell, for all intents and purposes as if this wish were fulfilled by a lawful good celestial."


The devil can't pervert the wish because the wording demands it be fulfilled as if by a creature that would not pervert it - or if it did, it would do in a way that benefited good, not evil.

[Inevitability]

Sell the wish. Find someone who really wants it, and Wish on that person's behalf. Using the money you made, find a high-level cleric and pay him for a Regenerate spell.

[JDL]

"I wish that I had, here and now in front of me, a single diamond worth 25,000 gold pieces, created completely by the magic of this Wish."

Because the last thing you want is for the Wish to get perverted by stealing the valuable from a dragon's horde, which then comes looking for you. Use the cash from the gem to fund a Regenerate.

[M Placeholder]

"I wish that I had, here and now in front of me, a single diamond worth 25,000 gold pieces, created completely by the magic of this Wish."

Because the last thing you want is for the Wish to get perverted by stealing the valuable from a dragon's horde, which then comes looking for you. Use the cash from the gem to fund a Regenerate.

That can be twisted. First of all, you did not take into account all the possible exchange rates, so theres an opening right there. Another is it being "in front of me"

With the right interpretation, the Devil will conjure a huge diamond in front of you, which then topples over and crushes your entire party into paste.

Or he could conjure up a Diamond that is worth 25,000 gold pieces.........and a lot more. A huge diamond the size of a city that you cannot move, and is practically worthless, as it cannot be cut.

[Bullet06320]

ask for a nonmagical pebble, then when you get it, thank him for it, admire it for minute, then set it free, just cuz

[M Placeholder]

"I wish that [insert ally name] organs were regenerated as per the spell, for all intents and purposes as if this wish were fulfilled by a lawful good celestial."


The devil can't pervert the wish because the wording demands it be fulfilled as if by a creature that would not pervert it - or if it did, it would do in a way that benefited good, not evil.

Oh yes he can. He grants the wish on the tongue and eyes - but the character is still blind, due to the limitations of the spell itself.

Or he can twist it to make it so that for all intents and purposes, the wish was fulfilled by a LG celestial - but the one that wished is treated as if it were Evil :smallamused:

[JDL]

Plus it probably wouldn't work anyhow. Wish in Pathfinder removed the parts that let you create stuff. Just wishing for the Regenerate spell directly seems the best bet.

If the character still has their physical eyes, why aren't you just fixing them with Remove Blindness? It cures normal or magical blindness so long as the eyes themselves are still intact and it's just a level 3 spell.

[Jack_Simth]

Plus it probably wouldn't work anyhow. Wish in Pathfinder removed the parts that let you create stuff. Just wishing for the Regenerate spell directly seems the best bet.

If the character still has their physical eyes, why aren't you just fixing them with Remove Blindness? It cures normal or magical blindness so long as the eyes themselves are still intact and it's just a level 3 spell.
Well, if the character in question is an Oracle, the player probably chose that path. Oracles get the Oracle's Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle#TOC-Oracle-s-Curse-Ex-) class feature, Clouded Vision (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses#TOC-Clouded-Vision) and Tongues (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses#TOC-Tongues) are both options (which would... pretty much do "blind" and "mute" for most purposes - oh yes, and Deaf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses#TOC-Deaf) is a suitable alternate for Tongues), and the Dual-cursed Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/dual-cursed-oracle) is in fact an option...

So the OP is probably trying to Wish away someone else's class feature. If so, Regenerate won't cut it, and any attempt fits the "effects greater than these" clause to a T.

[Crake]

Well, if the character in question is an Oracle, the player probably chose that path. Oracles get the Oracle's Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle#TOC-Oracle-s-Curse-Ex-) class feature, Clouded Vision (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses#TOC-Clouded-Vision) and Tongues (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses#TOC-Tongues) are both options (which would... pretty much do "blind" and "mute" for most purposes - oh yes, and Deaf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses#TOC-Deaf) is a suitable alternate for Tongues), and the Dual-cursed Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/dual-cursed-oracle) is in fact an option...

So the OP is probably trying to Wish away someone else's class feature. If so, Regenerate won't cut it, and any attempt fits the "effects greater than these" clause to a T.

I feel like "no tongue or eyes" is a bit more extreme than clouded vision or tongues.

As for the wish, just say to the creature "Can you fix my friend's eyes and tongue?" and if he answers in the affirmative say "Then that please." None of this wording silliness, he's the one casting the wish, so he should be the one deciding on the wording, that's not your problem. And if he screws up, or makes something else happen you can start disgracing him by saying he can't even manage a simple task as fixing someone's eyes and tongue, what an incompetent demon.

[atemu1234]

Go with the safe list regenerate, then perhaps kill the devil. Just for safety purposes.

[M Placeholder]

I feel like "no tongue or eyes" is a bit more extreme than clouded vision or tongues.

As for the wish, just say to the creature "Can you fix my friend's eyes and tongue?" and if he answers in the affirmative say "Then that please." None of this wording silliness, he's the one casting the wish, so he should be the one deciding on the wording, that's not your problem. And if he screws up, or makes something else happen you can start disgracing him by saying he can't even manage a simple task as fixing someone's eyes and tongue, what an incompetent demon.

There is so much that is wrong with this, I don't know where to start. A Pit Fiend will not screw up, and letting him decide on the wording is just asking for trouble. As for disgracing him, he will just laugh and plane shift back to the nine hells, as the Devil has almost certainly got a game plan, one that involves your damnation and a lot of other poor sods too.

If the DM is playing the Pit Fiend right, then the wish is all part of some plan, and actually accepting it is just insane. Think you are smarter than a Devil? Well, guess what, there were probably millions of berks who thought the same thing, and 99.9 percent reoccuring are burning in hell.

The best thing to do is just don't use the wish. Anything else will result in damnation. That should be the rule of thumb when dealing with anything from the lower planes.

[Zanos]

There is so much that is wrong with this, I don't know where to start. A Pit Fiend will not screw up, and letting him decide on the wording is just asking for trouble. As for disgracing him, he will just laugh and plane shift back to the nine hells, as the Devil has almost certainly got a game plan, one that involves your damnation and a lot of other poor sods too.

If the DM is playing the Pit Fiend right, then the wish is all part of some plan, and actually accepting it is just insane. Think you are smarter than a Devil? Well, guess what, there were probably millions of berks who thought the same thing, and 99.9 percent reoccuring are burning in hell.

The best thing to do is just don't use the wish. Anything else will result in damnation. That should be the rule of thumb when dealing with anything from the lower planes.
Why is this such a common trope among people when talking about devil deals? Getting over on a devil is just as common of a trope in fantasy as the devil always getting you in the end. There's also a decent chance that a high level character is significantly smarter than a Pit Fiend. Most wizards probably are, anyway.

There are some important questions. How did you come about having this wish? If you've already done a favor for the Pit Fiend, it's likely your soul is going on the hell express anyway, so you might as well use the wish.

Another thing is that I wouldn't spend time hashing out a 30 page legal document to use a wish. D&D shouldn't stop so you guys can call up a real lawyer to hash out who got the better end of a convulted legal document.

I would recommend that if the DM wants to make it "fair" for the character, that you have a best of 3 or 5 set of decipher script checks with the fiend to see if you can spot something in the contract, I guess? That's how I'd run it rather than someone making me read through some dumb contract they wrote OOC.

[M Placeholder]

There's also a decent chance that a high level character is significantly smarter than a Pit Fiend. Most wizards probably are, anyway.

By "decent", Im going to assume you meant "No mother****ing chance".

We are not talking about a normal devil here, its a Pit Fiend, and its near the top of the food chain in hell. The Pathfinder Bestiary Pit Fiend has 26 Int and 31 Wis.

Put simply, the Pit Fiend is too cleaver to be fooled, and will have plans, plans for those plans, and plans for those plans.

Personally, I would forget the wish, and go to the nearest temple of a good alligned god and beg for forgiveness.

[Zanos]

By "decent", Im going to assume you meant "No mother****ing chance".

We are not talking about a normal devil here, its a Pit Fiend, and its near the top of the food chain in hell. The Pathfinder Bestiary Pit Fiend has 26 Int and 31 Wis.

Put simply, the Pit Fiend is too cleaver to be fooled, and will have plans, plans for those plans, and plans for those plans.

Personally, I would forget the wish, and go to the nearest temple of a good alligned god and beg for forgiveness.
Getting 36 Int on a high level wizard is not difficult. 18 PB, +2 race, 5 levels, 5 tomes, +6 item, and you're done.

If it comes down to hit, he can just PaO into something with a higher intelligence score.

Also, a high level character isn't exactly normal, either. Pit Fiends aren't gods.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Actually, the Pit Fiend doesn't need to pervert the Wish at all in order to hose you. It can grant it to you fully. Then, if you tried for a morally good or ethically chaotic result, it uses Trap The Soul on you, then consumes your soul. If you tried for a neutral result, it beats you to unconsciousness, captures you, and takes you to Hell for indoctrination. If you tried for a Lawful Evil result, it gives you its contact information to help future business arrangements.




See, the offered Wish wasn't the point. The point was for you to freely, willingly and meaningfully declare your alignment so it could deal with you accordingly. No matter what you decided to do, it would either permanently destroy an enemy agent, or get a new slave, or gain an allied agent. Not just win, or even win-win, but win-win-win for the Pit Fiend.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Blessed Greased +3 Gray dragon scale mail

[Werdna]

ok wow, lots of input here. thanks everyone. First off, my character is already damned, the contract was that when i die this devil gets my soul. no getting out of that and that's fine my thief is a sneaky little f***er. the contract said nothing about getting it back so he's looking into undeath and the like.

ANYway we don't know what kind of devil it is just that because i have a contract with it means we have a devil. and the one in going to use my wish on, the devil kind of likes. he has been some kind of guardian to her for some time now.

I think "regenerate" is going to be the best bet. now i just need to word it...

[icefractal]

If she's missing those parts because of the Oracle curse, I'm not sure a Regenerate would help - the new eyes might go instantly blind, for example. The worse option would be for it to work and remove the associated abilities in the process.

Perhaps "I wish for [name] to be able to regenerate her eyes and tongue, and to know before-hand what effects that regrowth would have." Or, hmm ... that might mean she gets turned into a Troll with the "divine using your own entrails" feat. :smalltongue:


That's why my favorite method for wishes from malevolent outsiders is the "bigger stick" option:
"I'm not going to insult you by trying to out-lawyer you, I'm sure you have centuries-worth of experience twisting wishes. I'm just going to point out that my friend here is a necromancer of the 7th circle, who can and will bind you into a gem and hand you over to some celestials if I'm not satisfied with how my wish is fulfilled."

But I don't think you have that option when the entity granting the Wish could be anything up to a Pit Fiend.

[elonin]

If I were the DM I'd allow the wish to work as being on the safe list (even though it's easy to slip up vs a devil). But I'd remove the effects of Oracle that depended on those curses.

[Jack_Simth]

I feel like "no tongue or eyes" is a bit more extreme than clouded vision or tongues.
1) It's not the OP's character the OP is trying to fix with the Wish.
2) The OP only thinks that the blind/deaf character is an Oracle. There does not appear to be the meta-game sharing of character sheets or great detail of a character's abilities.
3) The "Clouded Vision" Curse (at 1st) prevents vision past 30 feet (but adds darkvision) and has the 10th level bonus of Blindsense-30. It is ENTIRELY possible for the OP to have confused this with blindness.
4) The difference between being unable to speak common in times of stress, and being unable to speak at all, is going to be largely petty, depending on how much a player wants to share.
5) The difference between being Deaf (with the ability to read lips) and being Mute is also a fairly fine distinction that's easy to miss if the players are not sharing metagame stuff.
6) Refluffing is a thing that's generally encouraged in all editions.

Barring more information to the contrary (like, say, Werdna stating something about watching the Oracle's Eyes/Tongue get pulled out), I'm around 75% sure that the OP is going to try to Wish away someone else's class feature (or at least the negative effects thereof).

[1pwny]

So there's a devil... which gave you a wish... and you want to use it safely? Lets see...

If you've already given your soul to the devil, ask for something like "I wish to be able to cast Regenerate 1/day as a spell-like ability tied to my soul." Easy. If he already has your soul, he'll want it to be as strong as possible so he can use it best, no? So ask for a power which lets you help your friend but also benefits him.

Good. Done.

[Werdna]

Jack_Smith, i don't think I'm confused. im aware oracle powers come from their "defects" but she doesn't have clouded vision or tongues. she has no eyes and she has no tongue. If her powers come from this (remember we don't KNOW if she's an oracle or not, that's me metagaming a bit) then i want to word the wish so she doesn't lose any power. my character knows she has blind-sense and doesn't want her to lose it. in game he knows she hasn't had eyes for a very long time and seeing out of nowhere can be very jarring, so he wants her to be able to put on a blindfold and slowly condition herself.

So, I've come up with this "I wish for the one i know as (insert name here) to have regenerate cast on her as from a high priest of Erastil (because our paladin is a follower of Erastil, it could be sarenrae but i digress) but lose no abilities she currently has."

somebody27else I like that idea though... i may have to think about that.

Thoughts?

[Inevitability]

Blessed Greased +3 Gray dragon scale mail

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