Spell Conversion: From 2nd to 3.5th

[Suteinu]

I found three spells in Dragon #270 that I want to convert for 3.5: Zagig's Canned Laughter, Zagig's Amusing Alteration, and Zagig's Gender Shift. The Mad Archmage's legacy is going to figure into an adventure I'm writing for 3.5, and I'd like to make use of these as prizes or irritants. Is there a guide for converting spells like this and, if so, where?

[Forrestfire]

As far as I know, there is no official guide, and even if there was, it'd be terrible. The best way to do it is to look for things that are similar, and homebrew the spells to fit into 3.5's own power scale.

For example:
The spell just makes a laugh track play any time the caster jokes, for one round per level. We have a spell that does this, it's called Ghost Sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ghostSound.htm). The main difference is that Ghost Sound is alterable to fit the situation, and cannot be changed after casting. So it seems like a fair trade to make a similar spell that only triggers on jokes and quips, but cannot be used to do anything other than laughter.

Zagig's Canned Laughter
Illusion (Figment)
Level: 0
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Effect: Illusory laugh track
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No

As the 2e spell, but if someone hears it, they can make a Will save to realize it's illusory laughter.


The spell doesn't do any damage or really have any averse affects, and is otherwise just a physical alteration of someone. A bit stronger than an illusion, because it's actually a physical transmutation, but overall, Silent Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silentImage.htm) does this, without a saving throw, and has much longer range and is much more useful. I'd call it a cantrip, but the existing cantrips for this sort of thing are a bit weak, so it's in the odd place of spells that aren't useful in combat, but make neat random utility spells. So, 1st-level, probably.

Zagig's Amusing Alteration
Transmutation
Level: 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range:Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Minor transformation
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the 2e spell, except that the range is longer past a few levels (since it's Close instead of "10 yards").


This is just Bestow Curse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm).

It's close to the sort of effects that Bestow Curse can do listed in the Book of Vile Darkness, except that this version of the spell can only do one thing. I'd call it a 2nd-level spell, because it cuts out the combat utility and the variability inherent in creatively-made curses. I would likely make a note about magic armor automatically resizing to fit them, to make it so it's not an actually debilitating debuff when used on PCs (having to rebuy armor sucks, after all). I would likely also offer the same effect as something that can be emulated by anyone with Bestow Curse once they've seen this one used.

Zagig's Gender Shift
Transmutation
Level: 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range:Touch
Effect: Magical sex change
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the 2e spell, except that magic armor automatically resizes to fit.

[Afgncaap5]

This is just Bestow Curse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm).

It's close to the sort of effects that Bestow Curse can do listed in the Book of Vile Darkness, except that this version of the spell can only do one thing. I'd call it a 2nd-level spell, because it cuts out the combat utility and the variability inherent in creatively-made curses. I would likely make a note about magic armor automatically resizing to fit them, to make it so it's not an actually debilitating debuff when used on PCs (having to rebuy armor sucks, after all). I would likely also offer the same effect as something that can be emulated by anyone with Bestow Curse once they've seen this one used.

Zagig's Gender Shift
Transmutation
Level: 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range:Touch
Effect: Magical sex change
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the 2e spell, except that magic armor automatically resizes to fit.


I agree that Bestow Curse should probably be able to replicate Zagig's Gender Shift, but do you think it'd still fit for the saving throw to be Will negated instead of Fortitude negated when it's on its own? I mean, if we're changing the school to be Transmutation instead of Necromancy, I'd be willing to tinker with another couple of places. (Bestow Curse's Will save always seemed a little odd to me, anyway. Like, some of the effects definitely make sense as things that someone's will power could overcome, but I wouldn't say all of them fit that.)

[Forrestfire]

The way I look at it, Bestow Curse is Will because the save is to resist the initial curse, and anything after that is just the result of failing at that crucial moment. Making Bestow Curse's save vary based on the curse for custom ones would be a neat thing to do, though.

[Afgncaap5]

The way I look at it, Bestow Curse is Will because the save is to resist the initial curse, and anything after that is just the result of failing at that crucial moment. Making Bestow Curse's save vary based on the curse for custom ones would be a neat thing to do, though.

Ahh. So the curse isn't the spell, it's just the magical after-effect that the spell opens you up to. (Which makes sense, given that the spell is Bestow Curse instead of Curse.) Not how I'd play it in my homebrew setting, but that makes sense. Thanks.

[Chronos]

Keep in mind, too, that Will is the catch-all for saves that don't make any sense as the other types, not just for assaults on your mind. Thus, for instance, Plane Shift is also a will save.

[Psyren]

Keep in mind, too, that Will is the catch-all for saves that don't make any sense as the other types, not just for assaults on your mind. Thus, for instance, Plane Shift is also a will save.

Actually, that's due to Plane Shift being an offensive [teleportation] effect, not due to some "catch-all" category. Not saying you're wrong but that specific spell is a bad example. Baleful Transposition, G'Elsewhere Chant, Translocation Trick, Planar Vortex, etc. - pretty much any hostile teleportation defaults to Will.

[atemu1234]

Keep in mind, too, that Will is the catch-all for saves that don't make any sense as the other types, not just for assaults on your mind. Thus, for instance, Plane Shift is also a will save.

Well, it's a save for things that can be resisted with your mind. Essentially, the saves have the following categories:

Fortitude- Strength of the body. Stuff that affects the body.
Reflex- Reflexes. You can dodge that, essentially.
Will- Something that can be ignored, that exists within your mind, or can be resisted mentally.

[Chronos]

And offensive teleportation uses Will saves because Will is the catch-all. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#will):

Saving Throw Types

The three different kinds of saving throws are Fortitude, Reflex, and Will:
Fortitude

These saves measure your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and health. Apply your Constitution modifier to your Fortitude saving throws.
Reflex

These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks. Apply your Dexterity modifier to your Reflex saving throws.
Will

These saves reflect your resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects. Apply your Wisdom modifier to your Will saving throws.
It's that "as well as many magical effects" that I was referring to. Most saves are versus some sort of magical effect anyway, but those that don't work as Fort or Ref end up as Will due to that clause.

[Psyren]

That passage is not comprehensive. For instance, there are many reflex saves vs. single-target effects rather than area effects, such as Binding Winds, Blackfire, or Thunderhead. If your passage was truly comprehensive, those would all be will saves because they are not "area attacks" and would therefore default to your "catch-all" instead.

[Chronos]

Well, it's not an actual rule (the actual rule is that you use whatever save an effect tells you to use). But it is a general rationale for why the saves are what they are, and a guideline for anyone creating new effects with saves.

[Suteinu]

Thanks very much, Forrestfire & gang. These are sure to be irritating to the PC's until they can get a copy. :smallbiggrin:

[Forrestfire]

Glad to be of service :smallsmile: