Oh, he died, let's loot him!

[FightStyles]

So I currently DMing, and one of the PCs just died in a tower before meeting the BBEG (or BBGG). The player has already rolled a new character and therefore probably won't try to convince the others to resurrect him. However, the other players immediately starting discussing looting the dead PC. This seems to me like they would be sticking their fingers in his wound, so I feel like I shouldn't let it happen (which would be easy to prevent). I do want to note that the dead PC doesn't have any story related items.

How do you all handle PCs looting dead PCs?

[Frenth Alunril]

Let them loot. Don't interrupt their agency.

[Mr.Moron]

Sounds to me you didn't do anything to establish tone before starting the game. It sounds like you're expecting some level of RP around respect for the dead that just isn't what the group is the mood for.

At the end of the day if it doesn't upset anyone it isn't disruptive behavior and there isn't any reason to try and circumvent it. However you may want to consider having a discussion about the game you want to run and what they want to play in. If they want a game where everything in the world friend or foe is a loot pinata and that's going to be off-putting for you, you might be better off finding a different game.

As for my games, I've got one where they'd just take the gear and go and another where there would be a proper funeral and a distribution of their stuff to friends and family.

[hachface]

I know that, as a player, if my character died I would want my teammates to avail themselves of all the resources my character possessed in order to face the challenges to come.

Indeed, if I wanted to have any hope of my new character inheriting any equipment from my old character, the rest of the party would pretty much have to loot my dead character's body.

[Once a Fool]

Back in the day, PCs used to carry wills with them just for such occasions.

In the absence of such a document, let 'em do what they do. Actually, if you ever find yourself asking, "should I let them do this?" the answer is always YES! The PCs are the only facet of the game that the players have complete control over; you should NEVER take that away.

Instead, if you have a problem with their actions, have the world react appropriately. If they walk back into town minus one companion, but sporting all of his gear, people are going to notice. Rumors are going to start and a reputation will begin to form. And they might not be too nice.

[JAL_1138]

They're PCs. It's part of their cultural heritage to loot their dead. It's a tradition going back to the earliest days of their ancestral homeland, the lost land of Blackmoor.

[Blacky the Blackball]

I call dibs on his boots!

[Human Paragon 3]

Well, imagine you are a group of soldiers or mercenaries and one of your friends dies, but he was the only one with a pair of binoculars in his gear. Are you going to not look through the binoculars out of respect when your lives are on the line? Would you rather run out of ammo and die than take his unused clips and distribute them?

For valuable possessions like a watch or personal letters or something, you'd likely make sure they got to his next of kin, but for utilitarian items, it makes sense to loot them.

[JAL_1138]

Well, imagine you are a group of soldiers or mercenaries and one of your friends dies, but he was the only one with a pair of binoculars in his gear. Are you going to not look through the binoculars out of respect when your lives are on the line? Would you rather run out of ammo and die than take his unused clips and distribute them?

For valuable possessions like a watch or personal letters or something, you'd likely make sure they got to his next of kin, but for utilitarian items, it makes sense to loot them.

Agreed. What are they going to do, leave his gear (that may help them live through the next fights and get out of the tower alive) for the enemy?

[FightStyles]

Well, since it seems ok for PCs to loot dead PCs. How much would it hurt if the BBEG looted the body instead because the PC died in his lair?

More reasonably, what if the BBEG takes the magic items from the dead PC? (only to be replaced the next couple sessions with magic items more appealing to the new character.)

[TheOOB]

PC's are adventurers, and it's silly to assume they won't take an opportunity to grab some items they will help them not die. It's the nature of the beast.

As for villians looting equipment, as long as the villian doing so doesn't cheat to take it away from the PC's. PC's can be touchy about their eq.

[JAL_1138]

Well, since it seems ok for PCs to loot dead PCs. How much would it hurt if the BBEG looted the body instead because the PC died in his lair?

More reasonably, what if the BBEG takes the magic items from the dead PC? (only to be replaced the next couple sessions with magic items more appealing to the new character.)

That's what I'm saying--that's why the surviving party loots him first, before the BBEG shows up with a +1 Sword or a Ring of Protection he took off the dead PC.

[Easy_Lee]

I'd also add that, for someone you aren't planning to resurrect, burning the body would be the best thing to do in the absence of an established corpse-disposal method ordained by the PC's god. Otherwise a necromancer could get hold of him.

And if you burn the body then it makes sense to redistribute the possessions anyway. Even in the real world, you don't burn down a person's house, destroy their car, and kick their dog when they die.

[FightStyles]

With these responses, I think the player who had now has a dead PC might have felt bad because
1.his PC died
and 2.the other players didn't care.

It probably wasn't so much that the other characters wanted to loot the body (although their first reaction is to loot probably led to the thought that they didn't care).

[Mr.Moron]

And if you burn the body then it makes sense to redistribute the possessions anyway. Even in the real world, you don't burn down a person's house, destroy their car, and kick their dog when they die.

Well Yeah. However, the folks you happen to be with at the time usually just don't play grabsies with your stuff either.

In most societies there are going to be burial rights, matters of property transfer and just general respect. You certainly don't strip 'em down to their skivvies and pry out the fillings while the body's still warm. You have a funeral, you contact family, if they were your friend you probably grieve.

Defaulting to "Strip, Burn, Move on" is rather meta-driven mentality meant for maximizing adventuring efficiency. This is a fine approach (and seems to be where the players are at). However it feels like FightStyles was expecting something a bit more grounded, he's just not on the same page as his players.

[CrusaderJoe]

My PCs always, always, always have a living will. Each player gets one thing and the rest goes to long lost cousins or charities...

Coincidently my new characters are executors of my previous character's will (they get nothing except healing potions and random worthless items).

[JAL_1138]

Well Yeah. However, the folks you happen to be with at the time usually just don't play grabsies with your stuff either.

In most societies there are going to be burial rights, matters of property transfer and just general respect. You certainly don't strip 'em down to their skivvies and pry out the fillings while the body's still warm. You have a funeral, you contact family, if they were your friend you probably grieve.

Defaulting to "Strip, Burn, Move on" is rather meta-driven mentality meant for maximizing adventuring efficiency. This is a fine approach (and seems to be where the players are at). However it feels like FightStyles was expecting something a bit more grounded, he's just not on the same page as his players.

It makes complete in-character sense if you're a pragmatist in a dangerous situation and the dead guy had gear that a) will help you not die, b) that the enemy would take to gain an edge if you don't, and c) if you've seen undead before and grown up listening to (in universe, entirely true) stories of evil necromancers reanimating the dead and sending them against former friends and families.

Nothing meta about it.

[kaoskonfety]

In the absence of a will? Aside from perhaps nudging the lawful ones to try and find the characters next of kin to give them the loot (and the characters share of the final haul)? Not much to be done, really. D&D parties get pretty used to dead bodies pretty fast.

If your concern is "characters dies, party takes loot - new character is made with new loot - net gain 1 PC's worth of loot" this shouldn't be a concerns much past the first couple of levels (if it is a concern) by simply not kitting out new PC's with anything past 1st level gear.

If your concerns is "guys, your buddy just died, your response should not be "SWEET! Platemail for ME!"" this is an alignment and roleplay issue (The players can be psyched, but try to keep people in character for actual death). Good characters should try to get the dead a proper burial/ advise next of kin regardless of inconvenience, Neutrals who are friends/allies are likely the same unless there are significant mitigating situations. Evil... well evil doesn't MEAN heartless jerk to your departed allies, LE may even be more likely than CG try to carry out the characters last wishes/get their wealth to the proper heirs (less their travelling fees and expenses of course).

Really its mostly just Chaotic Evil that should be all "Sweet, new boots, I wonder what dwarf tastes like" and even then this takes *quite* a character.

[FightStyles]

It seems as if looting the body should be ok. But a situation might come when the character's PC joins the party and is like, "oh, that's a cool magic sword. Want to give it to me?" and the one who has it replies, "No, I stole this off an ex-teammate fair and square!"

PC battle ensues

Now a different (or newly formed) PC is dead (and looted of course).

Then, repeat.

[Giant2005]

It seems as if looting the body should be ok. But a situation might come when the character's PC joins the party and is like, "oh, that's a cool magic sword. Want to give it to me?" and the one who has it replies, "No, I stole this off an ex-teammate fair and square!"

PC battle ensues

Now a different (or newly formed) PC is dead (and looted of course).

Then, repeat.

If a player is making new characters, attacking the party and dying over and over, that would sure need to be stopped. I can't imagine why anyone would want a player like that at their table.

[kaoskonfety]

It seems as if looting the body should be ok. But a situation might come when the character's PC joins the party and is like, "oh, that's a cool magic sword. Want to give it to me?" and the one who has it replies, "No, I stole this off an ex-teammate fair and square!"

PC battle ensues

Now a different (or newly formed) PC is dead (and looted of course).

Then, repeat.

In this case the actual issue is the NEW PC entering the party as the newcomer and expecting to get the old characters gear. Its not "his". In the absence of a formal Estate for the deceased no one stole anything - the previous owner died.

From the "old" parties perspective:
- we picked up a new fighter who is demanding our fallen comrades gear
From the sword holder players perspective:
- I survived, you didn't, finders keepers

The solution to the issue you describe is out of character:
The players can come to an agreement about how this (dead character possessions) is to be handled now and going forward, all the characters adhere to this (even if its meta-gaming). The characters at the end of the day are not real and are not the ones trying to have fun. The players are. If you can keep it from getting meta-gamed kewl, I hold the in character "you died, its the parties loot, you were not in the party at the time, its not yours" as both fair and reasonable. Not everyone will agree.

Then again if you've got characters coming to blows over some item and viewing their dead characters as a source for sweet lootz there may be a deeper issue.

[Slipperychicken]

Here's how I think about it: It's valuable equipment, and it can potentially prevent another PC death (or save the world, or otherwise further their goals). I'd say it's perfectly reasonable, especially if the PCs are normally prone to the unceremonious looting of their enemies' corpses.

Still, I'd want them to have some reaction to his death, however small. A brief eulogy and toasting his memory the next time they make camp would probably be good enough for most campaigns.


Well, since it seems ok for PCs to loot dead PCs. How much would it hurt if the BBEG looted the body instead because the PC died in his lair?

More reasonably, what if the BBEG takes the magic items from the dead PC? (only to be replaced the next couple sessions with magic items more appealing to the new character.)

That would help impose consequences for losing fights. Even if resurrections are easy to come by, it can be a real blow to lose your gear.

[Easy_Lee]

Well Yeah. However, the folks you happen to be with at the time usually just don't play grabsies with your stuff either.

In most societies there are going to be burial rights, matters of property transfer and just general respect. You certainly don't strip 'em down to their skivvies and pry out the fillings while the body's still warm. You have a funeral, you contact family, if they were your friend you probably grieve.

Defaulting to "Strip, Burn, Move on" is rather meta-driven mentality meant for maximizing adventuring efficiency. This is a fine approach (and seems to be where the players are at). However it feels like FightStyles was expecting something a bit more grounded, he's just not on the same page as his players.

I think it's more of a practical mentality than anything. If you're down in a dungeon, it's not exactly easy to carry out a corpse. Maybe they could if someone has a bag of holding, but I still don't see why one of them wouldn't use his useful possessions.

Personally, I'd say keep the body for rites later if able, burn it if not, and distribute valuable possessions to his next of kin or as ordained by his will afterwards.

[Slipperychicken]

I think it's more of a practical mentality than anything. If you're down in a dungeon, it's not exactly easy to carry out a corpse. Maybe they could if someone has a bag of holding, but I still don't see why one of them wouldn't use his useful possessions.


Also, it's not exactly easy to contact family members who were never mentioned and probably don't exist. And it's not like PCs spend a lot of time talking about their families or giving out contact information, much less providing instructions about what to do in the event of their deaths.

[Telok]

Also, it's not exactly easy to contact family members who were never mentioned and probably don't exist. And it's not like PCs spend a lot of time talking about their families or giving out contact information, much less providing instructions about what to do in the event of their deaths.
Some of us do. Or did.
Being the only one with any backstory or living relatives and friends gets tiresome eventually. So I wrote a backstory where the character was the boyfriend of a priestess of the evil cult the party was fighting.

[Mr.Moron]

I think it's more of a practical mentality than anything. If you're down in a dungeon, it's not exactly easy to carry out a corpse.

The reason why using their "useful possessions" right away feels "meta" to me (and "meta" isn't "bad"), is because someone is dead. It's not a pile of numbers that has merely ceased functioning. It's the remnants of a person, a person you knew. Someone you ate with, and talked with. Someone you've spent hundreds of hours with. Someone you've shared a tent with, someone you've argued with. No matter if you're friends or not you've had some level of emotional involvement with this person.

Taking proper care of the body? "Not exactly easy", I'll grant that but a dead ally is a pressing matter. Especially if you're say in the middle of an expedition of curiosity, or a wealth-finding mission rather than about to pull down the McGuffin of world saving.

Pulling boots off a corpse and wearing them is creepy enough, when it's just some random dead guy. You pull of someone's helmet and wear it, you can still smell them on it. Sure, if the fire-breathing dragon is baring down on you grabbing that amulet of fire-protection right away probably makes some natural sense.

However in situations where the need is less apparent or less immediate, I just have a hard time buying the strip-down and "just in case of maybe necromancer" disposal as any real honest representation of how a group would deal with a death. Not that every or even most games need to be all about honest representations of anything, but let's call a spade a spade.

[FightStyles]

I think I have an option that I might try to impose. I will simply ask the player who's PC died if he would like the other PCs to be able to loot the body. The death of the PC occured at the end of the session with the BBEG clapping to their (mostly) survival of the last group minions. So I'm that the BBEG will let them loot the dead PC if the player will allow them to be able to.

*The survivors will be receiving some loot no matter the player's decision.*

[hawklost]

Since dnd characters are defined as "MurderHobos" what makes you feel that looting a corpse is difficult for them?

They Take loot off of dead enemies all the time and wear/use it immediately (heck, we just assume they wipe the blood off that sword or clean up the armor before putting it on but you never know).

They might be friendly with their allies, but really, they go around murdering hundreds to thousands of creatures and/or 'enemies' to take their livelihoods.

the way players play dnd, most PCs would be considered sociopaths or psycopaths, neither one would bat an eye at taking items from a dead ally if it helped them in their cause.

[gameogre]

This is what I have found.

If you let players roll up a higher level character to replace a dead character not many will ever get resurrected. If you make then restart at 1st level they will move heaven and earth to bring back the high level character.

I choose to make them always restart at 1st level BUT I also make sure that I run side games on a pretty regular bases so each player normally has two or three pc's in there stable of characters of mixed levels. This way often the new character(if no resurrection) is almost the same level.

Now IF you choose to let the player roll a high level character and don't care about it I would still caution you to never let a new higher level character show up with magic items. You can't really control what the pc's do with the dead characters stuff and you do not want a revolving door full of magic items showering the pc's whenever one fo them dies.

[Mellack]

I don't find it at all odd that the other PCs would loot the body. That is what they do all the time, kill creatures and take their stuff. Often they can be found doing this in crypts or tombs where they are taking the stuff of people who were properly buried. In such situations I would expect them to be practical and take whatever is useful.

[Myzz]

Magic Items = SOOOoooooo Rare that we can not attach a monetary number to their actual sale...

OF course PC's are going to loot whatever Magic Item the guy has... Dead guy wearing 1500 gp of Plate... yup taking that.


Your in combat with a knife... guy next to you dies with his M16 in his hands... sure just let it lie there and keep trucking with that knife!

IF your PC's are Good, they probably should return the guys things to his family. BUT if magic items were acquired along the journey with you and were party awarded to that character because he was the best able to use said item, then the item returns to the party upon his death and should be awarded to whomever can make most use of it for the benefit of the party.

IF your PC's are Evil, then they likely would either:
1. Loot the body while its still warm, or finish him off so he doesnt suffer, and take his stuff like the selfish jerks they are.
2. Keep the loot on his body, cuz a skeleton or zombie with those magic items is just cool!


worried about the body decaying? Gentle Repose (level 2 Cleric Ritual). Cast that every 10 days and voila no decaying body. Don't even need to use a spell slot on it... Of course you should play up the ritual part of the ritual casting for this...

[Gnaeus]

Pulling boots off a corpse and wearing them is creepy enough, when it's just some random dead guy. You pull of someone's helmet and wear it, you can still smell them on it. Sure, if the fire-breathing dragon is baring down on you grabbing that amulet of fire-protection right away probably makes some natural sense.

Actually, every time I see this discussion, all I can think of are Kemmerich's boots in All's Quiet on the Western Front, that go through several owners because boots last longer than PCs and everyone needs a good pair of boots.

[kaoskonfety]

Actually, every time I see this discussion, all I can think of are Kemmerich's boots in All's Quiet on the Western Front, that go through several owners because boots last longer than PCs and everyone needs a good pair of boots.

The +2 heavy armour that keeps going on the parties tough front line fighter type, who keeps dying cause "front line fighter in a gritty game"... soon the villagers as talking in whispers around the latest owner of the "cursed plate mail", offering their condolences and asking if he will be buried here or rather sent elsewhere....

[hawklost]

The +2 heavy armour that keeps going on the parties tough front line fighter type, who keeps dying cause "front line fighter in a gritty game"... soon the villagers as talking in whispers around the latest owner of the "cursed plate mail", offering their condolences and asking if he will be buried here or rather sent elsewhere....

See though, that would be an interesting thing. If multiple PCs (and NPCs) continuously use an item and die while using it (especially if they die quickly) then it should acquire a cursed state after a while, especially if it is magical to begin with.

+2 Full Plate - 6 people have died while wearing it now becomes a +2 Crimson Full Plate, while being worn, PC has disadvantage on death saving throws as the souls of the previous owners attempt to drag the dying into the afterlife. (Something like that)

[FightStyles]

Well, maybe I'll throw a decision at them where the party will get to keep the body (unlikely) or his lone magical item (likely) in exchange for a quest item. However, then I might pose hidden consequences of whichever they choose; a positive one for keeping the body, and a negative for the magic item. The consenquences might not occur right away, but might provide a twist in the future.

[Mr.Moron]

Actually, every time I see this discussion, all I can think of are Kemmerich's boots in All's Quiet on the Western Front, that go through several owners because boots last longer than PCs and everyone needs a good pair of boots.

This is actually something an example of what I was talking about. In the rotten trenches of WW1 a good pair of boots was an immediate and apparent need. Wet, rotten misery was a constant in that conflict. Yeah, when you're stuck in the middle of never ending horror and mud, inadequately supplied and callously led grabbing a dead guy's boots is natural.

However the average dungeon is not a warzone, and the PCs aren't typically facing unrelenting misery at the hands of their un-flamed swords. Like unless you're actively being chased down something with mind control powers, there isn't a (beyond meta concerns you don't already have a magic hat) to immediately go about strapping your dead friends anti-mind-control-beanie to your head.

[FightStyles]

See though, that would be an interesting thing. If multiple PCs (and NPCs) continuously use an item and die while using it (especially if they die quickly) then it should acquire a cursed state after a while, especially if it is magical to begin with.

The curse could be that the item took the soul of the PC with it and therefore all those who possess the weapon thereafter will be "haunted" by the PC. Everything from voices of the PC to illusions of the PC. Letting the player control this curse could be fun payback to his fellow party member for looting the PC without showing any respect for the death.

[kaoskonfety]

The curse could be that the item took the soul of the PC with it and therefore all those who possess the weapon thereafter will be "haunted" by the PC. Everything from voices of the PC to illusions of the PC. Letting the player control this curse could be fun payback to his fellow party member for looting the PC without showing any respect for the death.

hmm... interesting roleplay options here if the leave the body behind or similar disrespect of the dead...

Stick with mechanical issues or physical luff issues (mostly cause haunting a PC with the players last character is going to get weird/ spiteful) - disadvanage on death saving throws is good, chill of the grave, leave drops of blood in places.

I'd only run with the haunting thing if the plan was to resurrect the dead PC (and then only to give them a way to interact with the party while they wait for the party to get back to town/ whatever.)

If they get it checked its haunted alright - we can destroy the spirit or the remains can be given a proper burial. Now if the old dead PC didn't have homeland/religion/family ties writen up, well its an NPC now, you get to deside.

Or the party exorsizes the angry spirit destroying it... well this was Jim, he took the arrow for you, remember? The one that killed him and trapped him on this plane, bound to the armour that failed him? You jerks?

[Garimeth]

See though, that would be an interesting thing. If multiple PCs (and NPCs) continuously use an item and die while using it (especially if they die quickly) then it should acquire a cursed state after a while, especially if it is magical to begin with.

+2 Full Plate - 6 people have died while wearing it now becomes a +2 Crimson Full Plate, while being worn, PC has disadvantage on death saving throws as the souls of the previous owners attempt to drag the dying into the afterlife. (Something like that)

LOL. In my 13th Age setting this is how all magic items become created - you can't enchant them other than temporarily. The become enchanted by doing great deeds with them. They are frequently masterwork, just because that's what tool survived the deed. Also a mundane item can become magic after being used over several generations and the like.

Un-related, in my campaign setting you burn all bodies not in cities, because untended dead will return as the UNdead during autumn/winter, even without the activity of necromancers.

OP: Sounds like you guys may just have crossed signals. If its not cheating for the BBEG to have his stuff, I would totally have him wield it against the PCs, kind of like a big "screw you" for letting the other PC die or something in game. Out of game of course there would be no animosity.

[JAL_1138]

This is actually something an example of what I was talking about. In the rotten trenches of WW1 a good pair of boots was an immediate and apparent need. Wet, rotten misery was a constant in that conflict. Yeah, when you're stuck in the middle of never ending horror and mud, inadequately supplied and callously led grabbing a dead guy's boots is natural.

However the average dungeon is not a warzone, and the PCs aren't typically facing unrelenting misery at the hands of their un-flamed swords. Like unless you're actively being chased down something with mind control powers, there isn't a (beyond meta concerns you don't already have a magic hat) to immediately go about strapping your dead friends anti-mind-control-beanie to your head.

"Hey, Bill had a hat that blocked mind control. Sooner or later one of these spellcasters we keep fighting is gonna have mind control spells...I mean, heck, Bob, you know a couple yourself, like what you did to those goblins two rooms back...one of us should take it so we don't all get brainwashed if it happens."

The PCs are wading through monsters, guards, traps, monsters, traps, monsters, guards, traps, and, just for variety, monsters. It's a place where death lurks around every corner and through every door. Every living entity they find inside is likely to try to kill them--and they might be explicitly in enemy territory, in an enemy stronghold. The average dungeon is like clearing a large building in an urban conflict. They're going to become pragmatists or become dead.

[Mr.Moron]

"Hey, Bill had a hat that blocked mind control. Sooner or later one of these spellcasters we keep fighting is gonna have mind control spells...I mean, heck, Bob, you know a couple yourself, like what you did to those goblins two rooms back...one of us should take it so we don't all get brainwashed if it happens."
.

Right. That's a fine discussion and one for later. It's one thing to sit down after you've had time to drag bill's body out of the dungeon, reflect a little and say goodbye. That's when rational, pragmatic but still remotely human people would sit down and go "OK. What would bill want us do with his AMCB".

That's a world of difference from his body hitting the ground, divvying things up that moment, then pulling out the lamp oil and zippo, then sauntering off before the ashes cool and like maybe dropping a line to his mom next you're in town, if you feel like it.

[FightStyles]

OP: Sounds like you guys may just have crossed signals. If its not cheating for the BBEG to have his stuff, I would totally have him wield it against the PCs, kind of like a big "screw you" for letting the other PC die or something in game. Out of game of course there would be no animosity.

I, as the DM, don't mind what happens either way to the PC's gear. I do, however, want to make sure everything remains fun. Having your PC die that you've invested a couple months of actually time and thought is no fun in itself. Then, having everything you've collected and earned taken by others at the table without regard to your PC makes it even less fun.

With that being said, throwing "screw you" type of situation at the other PCs would probably bring the fun for them too. Instead, I was looking for ways to bring the fun up for everyone, including the player who had the PC die.

[MadBear]

Right. That's a fine discussion and one for later. It's one thing to sit down after you've had time to drag bill's body out of the dungeon, reflect a little and say goodbye. That's when rational, pragmatic but still remotely human people would sit down and go "OK. What would bill want us do with his AMCB".

That's a world of difference from his body hitting the ground, divvying things up that moment, then pulling out the lamp oil and zippo, then sauntering off before the ashes cool and like maybe dropping a line to his mom next you're in town, if you feel like it.

I'd say both of you are right depending on the dungeon. If it's the local backwater ruins that you could choose to leave any moment, then yeah, you're kinda of psycho for burning him ASAP and taking his stuff. If you're weeks away from civilization, on a timed quest to get the mcguffin to save the world, then you probably don't have time to do anything else.

It boils back down to different strokes for different folks.

[hawklost]

Right. That's a fine discussion and one for later. It's one thing to sit down after you've had time to drag bill's body out of the dungeon, reflect a little and goodbye. That's when like rational, pragmatic but still remotely human people would sit down and go "OK. What would bill want us do with his AMCB".

That's a world of difference from his body hitting the ground, divvying things up that moment, then pulling out the lamp oil and zippo.

And how would it feel if this happened

Tank Dies with +2 Full Plate
Secondary tanks wearing +1 Half-plate says "Na, I respect Tank too much to use his armor"
Party runs into enemy who barely beat over Secondarys AC
Secondary Dies and the party has to flee because no one can tank and they really needed to stop those enemies from reaching the 3 ranged people

So yea, had Secondary taken the armor they could have delays/prevented their death by a decent margin and helped the party, instead Secondary fails and the party fails

Repeat same steps with a Weapon
Repeat same steps with the <Random magical item here>

If the party has access to it and doesn't use it then they are being stupid.

Now, if you want to reverse how you said it and say after the party has gone back to town? Well, they should decide if the person gets his things returned and shipped with his body back to wherever it came from or what should be done. But in the heat of a dungeon, it is not the fault of the DM if the players ignore the items they have because they are being 'conscientious' of a dead comrades items.

Lets look at a quick RL example (one where there is no 'immediate need').
PA owns a car and a Cell phone. PB does not. PB is riding with PA when PA dies on the side of the road no where. Does PB then say "Well, to respect the dead, I will walk 5 miles to the nearest town" or does he do something like pick up PAs phone and call 911. or does he drive the car to the town to get help (phone is the better option but not always available due to locks). your scenario you imply that because it isn't life threatening (close enough to walk) that PB should just walk the distance instead of using an item that was PAs because of 'respect for the dead'

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On a side note, my characters always carry around a 'will' stating what should be done with their items and gold if they die. Most of the time it is 'sell everything needed to bring me back to life' but sometimes it is 'leave my wealth to X'. In all cases though, when the party is in an out of the way location, using his dead items for a temporary bases works great.

-------------------------------
EDIT

I, as the DM, don't mind what happens either way to the PC's gear. I do, however, want to make sure everything remains fun. Having your PC die that you've invested a couple months of actually time and thought is no fun in itself. Then, having everything you've collected and earned taken by others at the table without regard to your PC makes it even less fun.

With that being said, throwing "screw you" type of situation at the other PCs would probably bring the fun for them too. Instead, I was looking for ways to bring the fun up for everyone, including the player who had the PC die.

I think it really depends on the player that died mentality. For me, I have played so many characters, some lasting only a few sessions, some lasting years that I don't mind the party using my loot. Heck, even if they went against my characters wishes, I do not bring that in with my next character, since he would not know any difference (although one of my characters did Arcane mark all his loot which was hilarious when the other PCs tried to sell it later and the invisible mark said "This item is Stolen please call the Constable". He would erase the mark before selling himself of course). But I know people also who want all their items buried with them as well, so double check with the player how he felt about it. You might find he was perfectly fine with the loot being taken but upset that no one seemed to care enough about his character to comment on his death other than glee for getting loot (Fun thing to then is maybe allow him to play a minion of the BBEG to 'punish' the PCs in the upcoming battle before he gets a new character in the game).

[Garimeth]

I, as the DM, don't mind what happens either way to the PC's gear. I do, however, want to make sure everything remains fun. Having your PC die that you've invested a couple months of actually time and thought is no fun in itself. Then, having everything you've collected and earned taken by others at the table without regard to your PC makes it even less fun.

With that being said, throwing "screw you" type of situation at the other PCs would probably bring the fun for them too. Instead, I was looking for ways to bring the fun up for everyone, including the player who had the PC die.

LOL. Agreed. To clarify by "screw you" I meant something more along the lines of "so you guyslet your buddy go off by himself and die/ OR / Oh you didn't recover his body immediately" so the BBEG is going to capitalize on w/e strategic or tactical error brought these circumstances about. In hindsight I probably could have worded my other post better.

[FightStyles]

LOL. Agreed. To clarify by "screw you" I meant something more along the lines of "so you guyslet your buddy go off by himself and die/ OR / Oh you didn't recover his body immediately" so the BBEG is going to capitalize on w/e strategic or tactical error brought these circumstances about. In hindsight I probably could have worded my other post better.

Right, making the PC's choices have consenquences. Sounds like you were describing the name of the game, haha. But DM vengence is usually met with the PCs story wrecking the campaign almost 99% of the time.

[icefractal]

Before even the discussion of disposition happens, there's the question of who owned the items in the first place - it's not necessarily the guy who was wearing them. Here's some ways I've commonly seen adventuring parties work:

1) Party as Independent Agents
Loot is divided up immediately. If you take an item, you get that much less of the gold. If the item would be more than your share, you pay the difference into the pot from your own supplies, or take the item as a loan and pay for it from your next share(s).

2) Party as Commune
Loot is collectively owned by the party. Items are distributed to whoever most needs them, but are not owned by that person.

3) Party as Corporation
Gold is divided up, items are owned by the party as a whole and distributed to whoever most needs them while out in hostile areas. When an item stops being useful, it's sold and the gold is divided. If a member wants to personally own an item, they can buy it from the party.


Secondly, in the case that the items do belong to the dead guy:
First off, burying people with their stuff doesn't make any sense in D&D. You can actually visit the afterlife and confirm that nothing gets taken with you. If you're not going to resurrect them, the dead have no use for material possessions.

So, that said, the only question is who gets the stuff. That's the kind of thing you'd write a will for. Whether the other PCs follow it is up to them, but it would then be a legitimate question. Although even in that case, of course you take and utilize any magic items until you reach a position of safety. After all, if everyone else gets killed trying to bring Sir Bob's sword back to his family, then the family won't have it either.

Oh, and the new character is probably the one who has the least claim to any of it. If DMs are making people start without equipment, blame those DMs. "Here, guy we just met, have our old friend's possessions!" is not a thing that makes much sense.

[heavyfuel]

@OP

This is yet to happen at a 5e campaign, but back in 3.x, a dead PC never elevated the group's wealth. If you decided to loot him, guess who won't have any magical items on his new character. It makes so that the remaining PCs actually respect the dead character, and either burry him with his treasures, or send them to his close ones.

No reason this shouldn't work on 5e as well.

Also, good thing they weren't racing against time to stop the BBEG from completing his plan eh?

[icefractal]

This is yet to happen at a 5e campaign, but back in 3.x, a dead PC never elevated the group's wealth. If you decided to loot him, guess who won't have any magical items on his new character. It makes so that the remaining PCs actually respect the dead character, and either burry him with his treasures, or send them to his close ones.I've always disliked that policy. For one thing, it has the possibility to set up unwanted tension between the players, and exacerbates any PvP activity. But more importantly, how does it interact with non-ownership situations like Party as Commune above? Or any form of party-owned items? If the party as a whole has a single adamantine weapon, which none of us could afford individually, the Barbarian is carrying it because he's the best at using it, and then he dies and the DM demands it be buried with him since he was the last to touch it? That's BS.

Also, if PCs are dying that often, maybe the group needs more items.

[huttj509]

This is actually something an example of what I was talking about. In the rotten trenches of WW1 a good pair of boots was an immediate and apparent need. Wet, rotten misery was a constant in that conflict. Yeah, when you're stuck in the middle of never ending horror and mud, inadequately supplied and callously led grabbing a dead guy's boots is natural.

However the average dungeon is not a warzone, and the PCs aren't typically facing unrelenting misery at the hands of their un-flamed swords. Like unless you're actively being chased down something with mind control powers, there isn't a (beyond meta concerns you don't already have a magic hat) to immediately go about strapping your dead friends anti-mind-control-beanie to your head.

I have a hat that's similar style to one I wore that used to belong to my grandfather (it eventually fell apart, but I like the style and connection).

Many people have inherited jewelry.

In the TV series Arrow, Oliver Queen's green hood used to belong to Shado (deceased), and she got it off her deceased father.

You say wearing a helmet of someone you had been adventuring with would be disturbing, I say it would be a tribute, as if the travelling companion were helping protect me as my journey continued.

[Slipperychicken]

Magic Items = SOOOoooooo Rare that we can not attach a monetary number to their actual sale...


There are price tags ("Base Prices") for each rarity level, which are used for most purposes, including crafting and sale. They're in DMG 130 and 135. Commons are 100, uncommons are 500, rares are 5k, and very rares are 50k. Artifacts don't have a price tag, but I'd imagine it's 500k-1 million.

[JNAProductions]

500,000-1,000,000 gold pieces. Also known as 10,000-20,000 pounds of solid gold.

[Mr.Moron]

I have a hat that's similar style to one I wore that used to belong to my grandfather (it eventually fell apart, but I like the style and connection).

Many people have inherited jewelry.

In the TV series Arrow, Oliver Queen's green hood used to belong to Shado (deceased), and she got it off her deceased father.

You say wearing a helmet of someone you had been adventuring with would be disturbing, I say it would be a tribute, as if the travelling companion were helping protect me as my journey continued.

Did you grab the hat off your grandfather's still-warm body then immediately proceed to rifle through his pockets and house,divvying up things with your relatives? Was the first order of business when he stopped breathing "OK, let's split up all the **** he's wearing" as you and your dad pulled off his clothing and shoes, letting his naked corpse flop unceremoniously off the bed before turning your attentions to to his wallet? (as this is somewhat equivalent to what the OP was describing in his game, and what other people have advocated for in this thread)

Of course not. That's absurd imaginary it's offensive to think about doing that, to your grandfather or anyone's anybody.

I'm not saying nobody would inherent gear. In fact I've been very consistent about that. What I'm saying is that making "looting" them as an immediate priority with no consideration as to to a period for respectfully treating the body, and considering others that person may have known doesn't really reflect a realistic way of handling death. It can only be driven by meta considerations of wanting to get more numerical bonuses as fast as possible.

[Slipperychicken]

Did you grab the hat off your grandfather's still-warm body then immediately proceed to rifle through his pockets and house,divvying up things with your relatives? Was the first order of business when he stopped breathing "OK, let's split up all the **** he's wearing" as you and your dad pulled off his clothing and shoes, letting his naked corpse flop unceremoniously off the bed before turning your attentions to to his wallet? (as this is somewhat equivalent to what the OP was describing in his game, and what other people have advocated for in this thread)

Depends. Was he in the middle of a life-threatening situation, and was gramps carrying essential survival tools and priceless commodities?

[heavyfuel]

I've always disliked that policy. For one thing, it has the possibility to set up unwanted tension between the players, and exacerbates any PvP activity. But more importantly, how does it interact with non-ownership situations like Party as Commune above? Or any form of party-owned items? If the party as a whole has a single adamantine weapon, which none of us could afford individually, the Barbarian is carrying it because he's the best at using it, and then he dies and the DM demands it be buried with him since he was the last to touch it? That's BS.

Also, if PCs are dying that often, maybe the group needs more items.

Tension can happen. For one, you probably get to keep his items i you beat him in PvP, which is a pretty good incentive. However, once players realize that they get a bunch of wealth every time their PCs die, they tend to be purposefully reckless.

Party items are handled as individual items. If the Barbarian dies and they give him a viking funeral with his sword still with him, new character gets the sword's wealth, if the party keeps te sword, they either "lend" it to the new player, or they sell it, as it's somewhat expected from loot

And if the PCs are dying that often, maybe they need to be less suicidal, which is really how 90+% of my players have died. As an example, the the last death we had went along these lines: "Oh, he's dealing an average 40 damage per turn and I have 13 HP left? Better get up close and personal with him!" (remember that in 3.5 you die at -10)

[HoarsHalberd]

I'm not saying nobody would inherent gear. In fact I've been very consistent about that. What I'm saying is that making "looting" them as an immediate priority with no consideration as to to a period for respectfully treating the body, and considering others that person may have known doesn't really reflect a realistic way of handling death. It can only be driven by meta considerations of wanting to get more numerical bonuses as fast as possible.

Personally, I'd say you're the one putting meta considerations into play. You're generalising the views of death of a relatively peaceful person such as yourself who lives in a relatively peaceful, high medicine, low scarcity society in a universe with no confirmed after life onto the actions of beings who have killed scores-hundreds of sapient creatures, in a high violence, low medicine high scarcity society where everyone genuinely knows there are gods and an afterlife. You're placing your knowledge and views onto your character and expecting others to do the same,

[Knaight]

Well, since it seems ok for PCs to loot dead PCs. How much would it hurt if the BBEG looted the body instead because the PC died in his lair?

More reasonably, what if the BBEG takes the magic items from the dead PC? (only to be replaced the next couple sessions with magic items more appealing to the new character.)

Does the BBEG have access to the body? If they can loot it (or if some other foe can loot it), it often makes perfect sense. It's at least partially character dependent - the extremely honor obsessed type might not do so, the sort of person who ties their dead foe to a chariot and rides around their city walls until the body is tattered totally would.

[obryn]

Yeah, my only caution is that a new PC with new gear can inflate the magic items in the party.

In 5e or 4e+inherent bonuses, starting a new PC without items shouldn't be that big a deal, within limits.

[unwise]

Most of my players PCs are murder-hobos, but I was pleasantly surprised that when the one that had a wife and kids died, the PCs bought his magic items off of his 'deceased estate' for a reasonable sum, then gave that and more to his widow.

When the dwarf warrior died and everybody looted his rather vast riches, they kept his axe and shield to send to his family and they paid for a skald to write an epic poem about his last battles to share with the bereaved. He had family, but no dependents. It is generally assumed at our table that unless you have some dependents, then you actually want the gear and loot to go to your adventuring buddies.

[RedMage125]

In my current PF game, we had a couple of PCs die. Now, in-character, we want to show some respect for the dead, but out of character, we could really use their stuff.

The compromise was: Bury them with their immediate gear (armor, weapons, etc), but consumables like potions, wands and scrolls go with the group.

[Telok]

I think that what I will do in the next game that I run is;
a) Dead characters may be replaced with a standard, by the book, character one level lower.
b) All sapients who are not given last rites, properly memorialized, or desecrated will rise as undead. I'll make a chart, hit dice plus charisma plus some roll and modifiers, to see what they return as and when. Probably nothing sooner than three days and a lower bound so weenie mooks don't return.
c) Souls exist in the afterlife in the form(ish) that they died or were given last rites. Equipment included. Expensive funerary goods, ala ancient Egypt or viking funeral barges, can be substituted.

Honor the fallen, you may well meet them again.

[Slipperychicken]

I think that what I will do in the next game that I run is;

I figure you could achieve better results by talking to your players about roleplaying respect for the dead. Maybe present your houserules as a stick of sorts if they're reluctant; if your players don't roleplay enough, they get to enjoy Death Variant: Restless Dead.

Of course, a shrewd player might dump his enemy's corpses in a pit or locked room, come back in three days, and defeat them a second time for XP.



c) Souls exist in the afterlife in the form(ish) that they died or were given last rites. Equipment included. Expensive funerary goods, ala ancient Egypt or viking funeral barges, can be substituted.

Also, c) seems like it would encourage the immediate stripping, shackling, and eulogizing of any enemy body. That way, their souls would arrive in the afterlife naked and immobile.

[rollingForInit]

I'd just allow the players to RP in whatever way they want. Seems unlikely they'd let that +2 magical armor go to waste, or the stockpile of healing potions.

[Kyutaru]

Items are "soulbound".

[Blacky the Blackball]

Before even the discussion of disposition happens, there's the question of who owned the items in the first place - it's not necessarily the guy who was wearing them. Here's some ways I've commonly seen adventuring parties work:

1) Party as Independent Agents
Loot is divided up immediately. If you take an item, you get that much less of the gold. If the item would be more than your share, you pay the difference into the pot from your own supplies, or take the item as a loan and pay for it from your next share(s).

2) Party as Commune
Loot is collectively owned by the party. Items are distributed to whoever most needs them, but are not owned by that person.

3) Party as Corporation
Gold is divided up, items are owned by the party as a whole and distributed to whoever most needs them while out in hostile areas. When an item stops being useful, it's sold and the gold is divided. If a member wants to personally own an item, they can buy it from the party.

Most groups I've played in or DMed for use the Party as Corporation model. Half the magic items and similar that people are carrying are officially "party treasure" rather than belonging to the individual.


Secondly, in the case that the items do belong to the dead guy:
First off, burying people with their stuff doesn't make any sense in D&D. You can actually visit the afterlife and confirm that nothing gets taken with you. If you're not going to resurrect them, the dead have no use for material possessions.

That's setting dependent.

In Mystara you can actually visit the afterlife and confirm that people do take a "spiritual" copy of their stuff with them. And if you loot their body and take the physical item then their spirit in the afterlife will also lose their spiritual copies of the items and possibly be devoured by minions of chaos before they manage to get reincarnated! Not only that, but people in the afterlife are aware that their stuff has been taken and can try to come back (in the form of incorporeal undead such as ghosts) to reclaim it.

It's a good in-setting rationale for why people bury the dead with their stuff.

[Garimeth]

In Mystara you can actually visit the afterlife and confirm that people do take a "spiritual" copy of their stuff with them. And if you loot their body and take the physical item then their spirit in the afterlife will also lose their spiritual copies of the items and possibly be devoured by minions of chaos before they manage to get reincarnated! Not only that, but people in the afterlife are aware that their stuff has been taken and can try to come back (in the form of incorporeal undead such as ghosts) to reclaim it.

It's a good in-setting rationale for why people bury the dead with their stuff.

That's kind of cool!

[Broken Twin]

In a non-evil aligned party, I would expect them to at least pay tribute to their fallen comrades. I also fully expect them to take most if not all of their useful possessions. If you're in the middle of a hostile environment, concessions can be made in regards to due for the dead. If you're in a relatively safe environment, harvesting the body's loot with little regard for who they were is callous.

Ultimately though, it all depends on the game. If you're just having a fun murderhobo game, then your fallen comrades are essentially just another treasure chest. The more RP you invest into the game, the more respecting the dead becomes a necessity. Keep in mind the culture(s) the party members hail from. A culture that practices sky burial will probably have a much different idea of what is acceptable than one that practices earthen burial.

And the idea that taking items from the dead is immoral is... interesting. I have items from my late grandfather that I cherish, and I know veteran friends who have things they inherited from comrades that died in the field. For them, it's both a way of honoring their comrades and an acknowledgement of the pragmatism that's necessary in a war zone. In a way, it's part of the grieving process.

[Once a Fool]

You're generalising the views of death of a relatively peaceful person such as yourself who lives in a relatively peaceful, high medicine, low scarcity society in a universe with no confirmed after life onto the actions of beings who have killed scores-hundreds of sapient creatures, in a high violence, low medicine high scarcity society where everyone genuinely knows there are gods and an afterlife.

Just wanted to point out that the part I bolded is a false assumption. The only people who actually know these things are people who have experienced or interacted with them first-hand. Everyone else must take these things on some degree of faith.

[JAL_1138]

Just wanted to point out that the part I bolded is a false assumption. The only people who actually know these things are people who have experienced or interacted with them first-hand. Everyone else must take these things on some degree of faith.

Y' jus' don' know what's inna next room. Have ta be peery. Y' never know if there's a spellslinger in there, or even a fiend. A Cager who ignores decent gear merely 'cause a cutter happened t' be wearin' it when 'e got 'iself a write-up inna dead-book tends not ta make it back to 'is kip. That's th' dark of it, friend. Nature o' th' ride. Ye'll tumble to it, or ye'll wind up lost yerself.

[Person_Man]

Of course you loot the body. What else are you going to do? Bury them with all of their valuable possessions so that they can be found by other adventurers in a few generations? Screw that.

When you die in real life do you expect that your family will divvy up your things, or bury you in a pyramid or tomb or whatever with your possessions? Yes, your family will probably be nice about how they divvy up your stuff, will hold a respectful funeral, and will probably follow your last will and testament (if you have one, which most people don't) about how to divvy up your stuff. But with the possible exception of a nice suit or dress and a few pieces of personal jewelry that will probably be taken by the person who buries you, your family isn't leaving anything on your corpse before they say goodbye to it.

[JAL_1138]

Of course you loot the body. What else are you going to do? Bury them with all of their valuable possessions so that they can be found by other adventurers in a few generations? Screw that.


I love how there's like a couple people arguing for funerary rites and mourning and whatnot and all the rest of us are pretty much saying
dibs on his boots!

[Maxilian]

I know how you feel OP, speak with your group about it, is not like they can't loot things from the dead PC, just tell them to roleplay it, in my group our mage died and we ended up taking all his money and his magic staff, we didn't left the body in the floor, we just prepared the body to be taken care of (we cleaned his wounds, take everything away from him -only left him in his robes- and we walked back to Phandalin with his corpse and there lies his corpse now, we even left the staff to the figther because it made more sense RP wise -they were close friends-)

[Xetheral]

Once, a long time ago, I had a character fall unconscious after tumbling down a long slope. He died soon thereafter after the rest of the party tobogganed down that same slope on a tower shield and plowed into his recumbent form.

While there were no magic items to loot, the rest of the party took the mundane gear, then chopped up the corpse and threw pieces ahead to set off traps.

It was rather disheartening to watch as I sat at the table making a new character.

[kaoskonfety]

Once, a long time ago, I had a character fall unconscious after tumbling down a long slope. He died soon thereafter after the rest of the party tobogganed down that same slope on a tower shield and plowed into his recumbent form.

While there were no magic items to loot, the rest of the party took the mundane gear, then chopped up the corpse and threw pieces ahead to set off traps.

It was rather disheartening to watch as I sat at the table making a new character.

Did they aim for you or something? was it a tube slide? did the DM just think it was funny or was it a "random" roll?

As for dismembering the remains to trip traps... the hell? If that works why not rocks? Or the big arse shield? Was the whole party chaotic and or evil?

I'd not have gone with disheartening - disturbing maybe.

[Xetheral]

Did they aim for you or something? was it a tube slide? did the DM just think it was funny or was it a "random" roll?

Narrow dungeon passageway. The other players knew my character was unconscious at the bottom, but their characters did not.


As for dismembering the remains to trip traps... the hell? If that works why not rocks? Or the big arse shield? Was the whole party chaotic and or evil?

I'd not have gone with disheartening - disturbing maybe.

More like utterly pragmatic and non-sentimental (which, in d&d terms, will fall into some (but not all) definitions of evil). Based on this thread it seems such characters are more common than I thought.

In more recent years in the games I've run the party moves heaven and earth to ressurect dead comrades, but it seems I'm pretty lenient on making that option available (if expensive) even at low levels.

[Mr.Moron]

Did they aim for you or something? was it a tube slide? did the DM just think it was funny or was it a "random" roll?

As for dismembering the remains to trip traps... the hell? If that works why not rocks? Or the big arse shield? Was the whole party chaotic and or evil?

I'd not have gone with disheartening - disturbing maybe.

They're just being practical! What if there are no big rocks around? They're in a deadly environment and need to trip those traps. Besides a necromancer might resurrect the body and further they don't need that body any more, they're dead. Stop projecting your modern hangs about death on something, something or something like that.

[Telok]

Heh, Slippy is assuming both a player vs DM mentality and players who will refrain from being metagaming murderhobos if you just say please, both at the same time. It won't work with my group. You might get two people on board by asking but as soon as it's obvious there are no mechanical penalties and the murder hobos have more loot then they will revert. There's a couple people in my group like Xetheral's players, they haven't changed in years and it doesn't matter what system we play. If there isn't a rule based carrot and stick against it they go full murderhobo, sociopath, killbot, lootwhore, call it what you want but they'll see nothing wrong with summoning three fire/acid tornadoes to kill a pickpocket in the marketplace.

Then they want to kill the town guard because "killing a pickpocket isn't wrong and we don't deserve to be arrested".

[CrusaderJoe]

Of course you loot the body. What else are you going to do? Bury them with all of their valuable possessions so that they can be found by other adventurers in a few generations? Screw that.

When you die in real life do you expect that your family will divvy up your things, or bury you in a pyramid or tomb or whatever with your possessions? Yes, your family will probably be nice about how they divvy up your stuff, will hold a respectful funeral, and will probably follow your last will and testament (if you have one, which most people don't) about how to divvy up your stuff. But with the possible exception of a nice suit or dress and a few pieces of personal jewelry that will probably be taken by the person who buries you, your family isn't leaving anything on your corpse before they say goodbye to it.

Ehhhh.... I'm not sure if "probably" is the right word. Perhaps "ought to", " should", and "hopefully" are the words you are looking for. There is so much strife in the real world (even among happy families) about this kinda thing that there is no wonder it spills over into a tabletop RPG.

But this is why you should have a paladin (LG) in the group, they will make sure your will is caried out. You also need a necromancer with a good bluff check "I'm just going to have him come with us, it's what he would want!" comes to mind...

[kaoskonfety]

Ehhhh.... I'm not sure if "probably" is the right word. Perhaps "ought to", " should", and "hopefully" are the words you are looking for. There is so much strife in the real world (even among happy families) about this kinda thing that there is no wonder it spills over into a tabletop RPG.



Nice is... relative.

No one is likely to draw swords. Outright theft is far from unheard of though, but if you get caught you act entitled and defensive, you don't shiv the person who saw you.

[Maxilian]

Ehhhh.... I'm not sure if "probably" is the right word. Perhaps "ought to", " should", and "hopefully" are the words you are looking for. There is so much strife in the real world (even among happy families) about this kinda thing that there is no wonder it spills over into a tabletop RPG.

But this is why you should have a paladin (LG) in the group, they will make sure your will is caried out. You also need a necromancer with a good bluff check "I'm just going to have him come with us, it's what he would want!" comes to mind...

I actually like the idea of making a dead PC one of the necromancer undeads

[Galen]

Handling a dead PC sounds like something that could, possibly even should, be handled with a pre-game Gentleman's Agreement.

[HoarsHalberd]

They're just being practical! What if there are no big rocks around? They're in a deadly environment and need to trip those traps. Besides a necromancer might resurrect the body and further they don't need that body any more, they're dead. Stop projecting your modern hangs about death on something, something or something like that.

No need to be passive aggressive. If you have an argument against what I wrote, do so. Making snide remarks makes you seem foolishly invested in your argument. And on point you are again conflicting a meta topic, how a player feels about other players actions, with IC choices.


Just wanted to point out that the part I bolded is a false assumption. The only people who actually know these things are people who have experienced or interacted with them first-hand. Everyone else must take these things on some degree of faith.

True, know was perhaps too strong a term. Though faith is too strong in the opposite direction for me. Well regardless, with three resurrection spells, many methods of contacting the dead and a reincarnation spell, there will be far, far more evidence for an afterlife in this universe. It would take no more faith to accept than evolution, momentum or gravity in this universe.

[obryn]

Remember, this is a game where Sally is still sitting across the table even if her character Gray Leaf just died.

Bully for you if your groups get into actually mourning the loss of their companion and treating his/her remains with respect, but I don't think that's really all that common.

Like I said above, just handle it as a balance concern. Don't let PC death turn into a weird way to stuff the party's coffers.

(Adventuring party gets rich with this one weird trick! Bet you can't guess how!)

[dancrilis]

Looting the equipment from the body is a time honoured tradition of adventuring - however for extremists it is only the beginning of the looting process.

Don't look at a body and see a dead friend who fought beside you valiantly - look at the body and see:
Meat makes good rations, bones can be heavy enough to set off traps (or distract guardian monsters with a tasty treat), hair can be tied together for a rope, nails (finger or toe) can make a handy interrogation tool against some monsters, skin can make a fine leather ...

The list is endless, remember just because your friend is dead doesn't mean they can't help you out - and if they wouldn't want to help you what kind of friends are they really?

Friends not just for a dungeon you can keep them for life (well parts of them anyway).

[goto124]

How I would do it:

0. Ask the player how she wants her dead PC to be treated! If she's not okay with the corpse looting, no matter how practical, don't! The rest of the steps assume she's okay with giving the items to her teammates (and new PC).
1. Cry
2. Stop crying, realising I'm in a life-and-death situation with a job to do.
3. Promise the dead PC I'll make good use of her items to kill the BBEG (or whatever the objective is).
4. Take the items, put the corpse in the Bag of Holding, distribute the items among the party (who also cried for the dead PC).
5. Kill the BBEG, quest complete.
6. Hold a funeral for the dead PC, think about what to do with her stuff.

Basically, you do respect the dead person, but you do the mourning only after the job's been done. That's what your dead friend would've wanted, right?


Right. That's a fine discussion and one for later. It's one thing to sit down after you've had time to drag bill's body out of the dungeon, reflect a little and say goodbye. That's when rational, pragmatic but still remotely human people would sit down and go "OK. What would bill want us do with his AMCB".

That's a world of difference from his body hitting the ground, divvying things up that moment, then pulling out the lamp oil and zippo, then sauntering off before the ashes cool and like maybe dropping a line to his mom next you're in town, if you feel like it.

[This reminds me of a case where a party was stranded on the top of a mountain. Very cold, no food, one man died. A few days later, the rest decided to eat his corpse to survive. The situation was really bad.]

Step 0 is important. Just ask the player what she thinks!

[unwise]

In real life, when my beloved family die, I am not going to bury them in the clothes they fell in. I am not going to bury them with their wallet. All of their stuff will be taken and distributed to the living. Referring to it as "looting the dead" is a pretty odd value judgement.

I just fail to see how this is a lack of respect for the dead. It does not fit our modern way of thinking nor does it conform to historical archetypes. The pyramids, viking burial ships, the terracotta army and wife-burning are all known about for being the rare exceptions for the rich, even within their cultures, not the norm. A society cannot function when the dead are not "looted".

[kaoskonfety]

I can't be the only one who thinks this thread is neat cause you can almost see where people fall in the Game-Narrative-Simulation spectrum just from how they discuss dealing with the dead in their games?

"they are dead and now a resource as there is not player driving it"
"they are dead and we must mourn the loss of the great warrior and ally"
"they are dead and *consequences for not dealing with it in a socially/spiritually correct manner*"

No one is wrong, all of the above are can easily be done in a game - in the same game. The only real issue is when expectations differ and this causes player conflict - players treating it like a resourcing situation and the DM haunts them earning their resentment, players who take time to roleplay out mourning along side those who interrupts the player 'saying a few words' to yell "BORING" and kick in the next door or start doing inventory tetris, the group squabbling over dividing up the dead character loot while the body is warm and the invested player is sitting right there.

[JAL_1138]

I can't be the only one who thinks this thread is neat cause you can almost see where people fall in the Game-Narrative-Simulation spectrum just from how they discuss dealing with the dead in their games?

"they are dead and now a resource as there is not player driving it"
"they are dead and we must mourn the loss of the great warrior and ally"
"they are dead and *consequences for not dealing with it in a socially/spiritually correct manner*"


Not quite. I think a lot of people are saying "they are dead and, because we are in a life-threatening situation, there are pragmatic, in-world concerns about whether their current equipment such as arrows, healing potions, armor, and weapons that may be better than ours (or which should not fall into the hands of the enemy) will help us survive long enough to mourn our friend and pay our respects properly later, after the job is done and we have extracted ourselves from the life-threatening circumstances, much as with fallen comrades in a war zone" rather than anything to do with whether there's a player driving it. That's entirely in-character reasoning.

Let's not forget Narsil, Elendil's sword, that Isildur used to cut the ring from Sauron's hand.

Edit: And when Frodo was stung by Shelob, Sam didn't just take the MacGuffin. He also took the phial and Frodo's sword.

[FightStyles]

I can't be the only one who thinks this thread is neat cause you can almost see where people fall in the Game-Narrative-Simulation spectrum just from how they discuss dealing with the dead in their games?

"they are dead and now a resource as there is not player driving it"
"they are dead and we must mourn the loss of the great warrior and ally"
"they are dead and *consequences for not dealing with it in a socially/spiritually correct manner*"

No one is wrong, all of the above are can easily be done in a game - in the same game. The only real issue is when expectations differ and this causes player conflict - players treating it like a resourcing situation and the DM haunts them earning their resentment, players who take time to roleplay out mourning along side those who interrupts the player 'saying a few words' to yell "BORING" and kick in the next door or start doing inventory tetris, the group squabbling over dividing up the dead character loot while the body is warm and the invested player is sitting right there.

Well, thanks for calling the thread neat. I appreciate it. I also agree with you. None of the prescribed methods for dealing with the dead PC would be "wrong" by any means. (Even the one where they destroy the body by tearing it into pieces.) In game, the PCs and NPCs are going to deal with the body and possessions with vastly different mannerisms depending on their alignment and the situation they are currently in.

However, I originally posted to see how others handled out of character interactions when a PC dies because I realized immediately that the player went from having a bad time personally once he died, to even a worse time when the other players made it seem as if they didn't care about the player's character. I was seeing if in game help by the DM (me) would help the situation, or if a "tough love, you shouldn't have died" approach and hope he likes his new character better would suffice.

[kaoskonfety]

Well, thanks for calling the thread neat. I appreciate it. I also agree with you. None of the prescribed methods for dealing with the dead PC would be "wrong" by any means. (Even the one where they destroy the body by tearing it into pieces.) In game, the PCs and NPCs are going to deal with the body and possessions with vastly different mannerisms depending on their alignment and the situation they are currently in.

However, I originally posted to see how others handled out of character interactions when a PC dies because I realized immediately that the player went from having a bad time personally once he died, to even a worse time when the other players made it seem as if they didn't care about the player's character. I was seeing if in game help by the DM (me) would help the situation, or if a "tough love, you shouldn't have died" approach and hope he likes his new character better would suffice.

If the players concerns is loss of the character investment and the perceived disrespect of the dead is just bumming them out more there is not too much to do in the standard framework aside from the already rejected resurrection option.

The solution to the issue you outline... well this thread shows some of the diverse opinion on the subject, it is going to vary alot with play style, players, characters, DM and in game situation

Establishing OOC rules/ game contract for how this is going to be handled, spark an in character discussion on wills and mortality, nudge the player towards playing a lawful non-chaotic type type with a family and a will so the party will actually need to take this into consideration if (when?) it happens again. Get them thinking about it.

In short talk with the group and the player. Most of the time I'd assume its a short term frump about dying getting inflamed to honest annoyance.

I personally have never really been bothered by losing a character, it means I get to make a new one - a exercise I enjoy. I've had party wipes where everyone was laughing at the absurd dice rolls by the end and eager to make a new crew and put that statistical anomaly behind them. I've personally soul trapped another PC to prevent their resurrection (because they were monsters and need to be stopped). The player was fine with it and had a blast driving me to do it (robbery sure, a few murders whatever, cutting out 50 peoples eyes and putting them into a jar with a little note for the wizard to stop scrying him... um, extreme but I guess you value your privacy? ... dooming tens of thousands of a cities citizens to hideous death to steal a few thousand gold, gold you *really* don't need mr. "The DM has agreed I don't need to track wealth at this point I have so much of it" ... stop, just... stop) It was an evil oriented game and I was playing an outright man-eating Rakshasa, but dude - those people were MINE.

[Eragon123]

My first thoughts on reading this thread. (start at around 2:50)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l3dhHBhWnBY

[obryn]

Yeah, since I keep everyone around the same levels and use inherent bonuses rather than tons of magic items, my players aren't even really that gung-ho about getting their characters resurrected. They'd rather make a new character and try something different. It's almost an opportunity, when it comes down to it.

[FightStyles]

Ah, so you're saying I should kill the other PCs as well. No loot for anyone! Makes perfect sense to me. haha

In all seriousness, I don't imagine the bad feeling to last forever. In fact, it'll probably go away as soon as his new character hits the scene. I am currently thinking of a couple things to make things go a little better though.

Make his death mean something.
Make the looting of the dead PC have possible negative consequences.
Make his new character's entrance one to remember.

I think if I pull those off well, it might make things go smoother and actually create a fun experience.

[FightStyles]

...SNIP...

That's pretty good. It shows a possible positive consequence of being respectful (at first) of the deceased. The humor of the death is another idea to lighten it up.

[Knaight]

I can't be the only one who thinks this thread is neat cause you can almost see where people fall in the Game-Narrative-Simulation spectrum just from how they discuss dealing with the dead in their games?

Except it's made more difficult by the way peoples attitudes on death come in. I'm generally a proponent of using the stuff in a dangerous situation; I'm also of the opinion that if I die my stuff (goods, organs, whatever) absolutely should be redistributed among people who can actually use them.

[kaoskonfety]

Not quite. I think a lot of people are saying "they are dead and, because we are in a life-threatening situation, there are pragmatic, in-world concerns about whether their current equipment such as arrows, healing potions, armor, and weapons that may be better than ours (or which should not fall into the hands of the enemy) will help us survive long enough to mourn our friend and pay our respects properly later, after the job is done and we have extracted ourselves from the life-threatening circumstances, much as with fallen comrades in a war zone" rather than anything to do with whether there's a player driving it. That's entirely in-character reasoning.

Let's not forget Narsil, Elendil's sword, that Isildur used to cut the ring from Sauron's hand.

Edit: And when Frodo was stung by Shelob, Sam didn't just take the MacGuffin. He also took the phial and Frodo's sword.

See I like these examples... cause they are doing it right.

Grasping the hilt of Narsil to cut the ring from Saurons hand was in the thick of combat/life or death. Looking down at his fathers broken body after the fight and saying "well that's encumbrance I don't need, sorry Jim, I'm leaving your character to rot", taking the armour for scrap/repair and leaving the body for the vultures is something else.

Sam weeps when leaving Frodo behind and is crushed that the quest has passed to him, there is literally no way for him to deal with the body before the forces are on him - leaving the only weapon (and orc detector) behind for orcs to take is stupid, leaving an elven relic to be smashed a crime, leaving the one ring - catastrophic. Would Sam have buried Frodo given half the chance? Said a few words, broken down crying? Would he have considered burying him with the Light of Eärendil and possibly the mithril coat and Sting had he been able to get them back to anything resembling safety? Yes this is dumb, but Sam is a sentimental who would take a good meal with friends and a warm bed over gold any day. He is the archetype for the reluctant murderhobo.

Mid combat grabbing a weapon, helm or amulet to survive the next 12 seconds is different than taking 10 minutes to strip off the armour and donning it (before washing off the blood), then stripping the clothes and then debate who is carrying the torches and rations while the stiffening corpse is set aflame (or chopped into pieces for dragon bait/potential rations). I'm not saying to leave the armour to rust, just wash it for heavens sakes, or acknowledge the blood stains and lingering warmth. Distribute the potions and save the debate of who owns the gold pieces for after the flames from the corpse have died down and the player has stopped fuming about dying.

I know this is a play style choice, there is no "right way" to play, but at the very least acknowledge to your buddy-associate-fellow gamer that that was a bum deal and if they are taking it poorly take five to laugh it off a bit before you chop him up for Aboeth bait and rations. Man this dungeon keeps getting worse... Aboeths are AWFUL

[Knaight]

Mid combat grabbing a weapon, helm or amulet to survive the next 12 seconds is different than taking 10 minutes to strip off the armour and donning it (before washing off the blood), then stripping the clothes and then debate who is carrying the torches and rations while the stiffening corpse is set aflame (or chopped into pieces for dragon bait/potential rations).

What about the numerous examples of stories about war, in which thoroughly under-equipped armies routinely scavenge the dead, without regard to which side the dead are from.

[Vogonjeltz]

Magic Items = SOOOoooooo Rare that we can not attach a monetary number to their actual sale...

OF course PC's are going to loot whatever Magic Item the guy has... Dead guy wearing 1500 gp of Plate... yup taking that.


Your in combat with a knife... guy next to you dies with his M16 in his hands... sure just let it lie there and keep trucking with that knife!

IF your PC's are Good, they probably should return the guys things to his family. BUT if magic items were acquired along the journey with you and were party awarded to that character because he was the best able to use said item, then the item returns to the party upon his death and should be awarded to whomever can make most use of it for the benefit of the party.

IF your PC's are Evil, then they likely would either:
1. Loot the body while its still warm, or finish him off so he doesnt suffer, and take his stuff like the selfish jerks they are.
2. Keep the loot on his body, cuz a skeleton or zombie with those magic items is just cool!


worried about the body decaying? Gentle Repose (level 2 Cleric Ritual). Cast that every 10 days and voila no decaying body. Don't even need to use a spell slot on it... Of course you should play up the ritual part of the ritual casting for this...

I agree on some points.

First, if the character in question has devoted no time (even out of game) to explaining their character's backstory and connection with the other characters, and there is no reason for the other party members to be aware of a next of kin, it's all moot, the gear is clearly fair game.

If there's a particular object that has sentimental value (like the amulet of my wife or this knife was given as a gift from my father before starting the adventure), then assuming the other members have a reason to know this and plausibly care, they should probably return it given the opportunity.

If surviving players want to roleplay more or less sentimentality, that's really up to them.

However, I'd probably consider damage to items which reflects the manner in which players died. i.e. If the player was crushed by a boulder...maybe nothing is recoverable (or everything is damaged significantly even if the others manage to get the boulder off of them.).

And secondly, in particular for armor, I'd almost certainly employ the rule that it needs to be fitted for the other players assuming it's not damaged beyond repair.


My first thoughts on reading this thread. (start at around 2:50)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l3dhHBhWnBY

I note he loots the body first too. So, given the right circumstances, looting someone else in the party after they bite it is entirely normal within the context of the game.

[endur]

It seems as if looting the body should be ok. But a situation might come when the character's PC joins the party and is like, "oh, that's a cool magic sword. Want to give it to me?" and the one who has it replies, "No, I stole this off an ex-teammate fair and square!"

PC battle ensues

Now a different (or newly formed) PC is dead (and looted of course).

Then, repeat.

I've seen this!

[FightStyles]

I've seen this!

I wouldn't really let this happen. haha. I don't let PCs deal lethal or nonlethal damage to another PC. I more or less let them RP it. However, there are circumstances where PC battles are not only allowed, but required, even to the death. Same goes with thieving.

This however, is not one case where either would be allowed haha.