How to hear Incorporeal Creatures

[Jowgen]

Incorporeal creatures have this annoying thing of being described as utterly silent unless they choose otherwise. Is there any way to reliably hear incorporeals?

[Crake]

Do you mean detect? Because if something is capable of making literally no sound, then there's just straight up nothing for you to hear...

[JDL]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Any effect allows you to hear noises on the ethereal plane will allow you to detect an ethereal creature. Per the SRD:


Ethereal creatures are invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane.

So if you were under the effect of an Ethereal Jaunt spell, you would reasonably be able to roll your Listen check to detect an ethereal creature.

[Jowgen]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Any effect allows you to hear noises on the ethereal plane will allow you to detect an ethereal creature. Per the SRD:


Ethereal creatures are invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane.

So if you were under the effect of an Ethereal Jaunt spell, you would reasonably be able to roll your Listen check to detect an ethereal creature.

Would Blink work for this purpose?

[Zombimode]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Any effect allows you to hear noises on the ethereal plane will allow you to detect an ethereal creature. Per the SRD:


Ethereal creatures are invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane.

So if you were under the effect of an Ethereal Jaunt spell, you would reasonably be able to roll your Listen check to detect an ethereal creature.

Keep in mind that this in only applicable for creatures that are incorporeal because they are ethereal. Incorporeal creatures that arent ethereal (like Shadows or most other incorporeal creatures, really) can't be heard by this manner.

[Crake]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Any effect allows you to hear noises on the ethereal plane will allow you to detect an ethereal creature. Per the SRD:


Ethereal creatures are invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane.

So if you were under the effect of an Ethereal Jaunt spell, you would reasonably be able to roll your Listen check to detect an ethereal creature.

I think you're confusing incorporeal with ethereal. The two are actually very different. Ethereal simply means you're on the ethereal plane. Incorporeal means you're on the material plane, but are incorporeal. Ghosts can be both simultaneously thanks to their manifest ability, which is typically the cause of this confusion.

[Psyren]

I think you're confusing incorporeal with ethereal. The two are actually very different. Ethereal simply means you're on the ethereal plane. Incorporeal means you're on the material plane, but are incorporeal. Ghosts can be both simultaneously thanks to their manifest ability, which is typically the cause of this confusion.

This. Being ethereal will not, for example, do jack to help you hear an Unbodied.

In addition, no matter what plane you're on, incorporeals still have the option to make zero sound. You have to rely on vision, mindsight, or other senses instead.

[Zaq]

Yeah, it's pretty open-and-shut that you just can't hear an incorporeal creature that doesn't want to be heard.

If you had sound-based blindsense (or some magical way of seeing sound waves), you might be able to sweet-talk your GM into letting you make a Listen check (probably against a pretty darn hard DC) to detect the perfectly silent "blind spot" of the incorporeal creature, but there's no RAW support for it.

[Necroticplague]

Yeah, it's pretty open-and-shut that you just can't hear an incorporeal creature that doesn't want to be heard.

If you had sound-based blindsense (or some magical way of seeing sound waves), you might be able to sweet-talk your GM into letting you make a Listen check (probably against a pretty darn hard DC) to detect the perfectly silent "blind spot" of the incorporeal creature, but there's no RAW support for it.

I'm not sure it would even make sense for such a blind spot to exist. After all, incorporeal creatures are silent because they don't disturb the medium they move through. So logically, this means background noises move through them, leaving no audible trace of their presence.

[Jowgen]

Okay then, loop-hole hunting time.

Does the silent quality of an incorporeal creature extend to any weapons or other ghost-touch equipment it might have?

If an Incorporeal creature chooses to affect something corporeal via an attack, could that action be argued to be audible?

Same question in reverse, if an incorporeal creature is damaged by something corporeal.

[Crake]

Okay then, loop-hole hunting time.

Does the silent quality of an incorporeal creature extend to any weapons or other ghost-touch equipment it might have?

If an Incorporeal creature chooses to affect something corporeal via an attack, could that action be argued to be audible?

Same question in reverse, if an incorporeal creature is damaged by something corporeal.

In that case it's not so much the incorporeal creature making the sound, as much as it is the things that they are affecting. Incorporeal weapons would not make sounds, but ghost touch weapons would, as long as they did something to make a sound. Floating in the air doesn't really count, though if we're talking absurdly high listen checks, then you could probably hear the breeze against the blade.

[Necroticplague]

In that case it's not so much the incorporeal creature making the sound, as much as it is the things that they are affecting. Incorporeal weapons would not make sounds, but ghost touch weapons would, as long as they did something to make a sound. Floating in the air doesn't really count, though if we're talking absurdly high listen checks, then you could probably hear the breeze against the blade.

Actualy, ghost touch weapons don't make noises either:

Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.
So, just like a ghost touch weapon can be taken through a wall, a ghost touch weapon wont make a noise. A ghost touch weapon is an incorporeal weapon. Now, things it interact with can still make noises (i.e, the dude you just stabbed with it), but it makes no noise by default.

[Crake]

Actualy, ghost touch weapons don't make noises either:

So, just like a ghost touch weapon can be taken through a wall, a ghost touch weapon wont make a noise. A ghost touch weapon is an incorporeal weapon. Now, things it interact with can still make noises (i.e, the dude you just stabbed with it), but it makes no noise by default.

oh huh, I always just thought that incorporeal creatures could interact with them, didn't realise they could actually pass through solid objects and whatnot....

[Jowgen]

oh huh, I always just thought that incorporeal creatures could interact with them, didn't realise they could actually pass through solid objects and whatnot....

That's probably inferred from the "counts as either corporeal or incorporeal as advantageous" clause.
...
Now to make a monk with a ghost touch necklace of natural attacks :smallbiggrin:


Anyways, anybody got any other ideas? :smallannoyed:

[Crake]

That's probably inferred from the "counts as either corporeal or incorporeal as advantageous" clause.
...
Now to make a monk with a ghost touch necklace of natural attacks :smallbiggrin:


Anyways, anybody got any other ideas? :smallannoyed:

His body is treated as incorporeal, suddenly all his clothes fall off :smalltongue: (which would also cause the necklace to fall off, which would cause him to go back to being corporeal again haha)

[Necroticplague]

That's probably inferred from the "counts as either corporeal or incorporeal as advantageous" clause.
...
Now to make a monk with a ghost touch necklace of natural attacks :smallbiggrin:


Anyways, anybody got any other ideas? :smallannoyed:

Actually, that part is in the ghost touch weapon description, in addition to that clause.

A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.
Bolded for emphasis. It honestly makes the next sentence kinda redundant (since a manifesting shot is incorporeal).

Also, that necklace trick doesn't quite work. The unarmed strike can be made with any part of your body, but it is not your body itself. So a ghost touch necklace of natural attacks doesn't transform your whole body. It does create a similar weirdness where you can reach through walls to hit people (well, more like reach through windows, since you'd still need line of sight), but nor to just normally walk through them.

[Killer Angel]

This is totally not RAW, but you could try to listen the thing, applying a -20 malus to the check, similar to the one to see invisible creatures.
-30, if it suits you better.

[atemu1234]

This is totally not RAW, but you could try to listen the thing, applying a -20 malus to the check, similar to the one to see invisible creatures.
-30, if it suits you better.

Once you get your listen check up that high, you're essentially Superman. I hear a cricket chirping in China!

[Andezzar]

Once you get your listen check up that high, you're essentially Superman. I hear a cricket chirping in China!Unless you are in China a +50 or so listen bonus won't help much. The DC increases by 1 per 10 feet of distance to the source of the sound.

[Killer Angel]

Once you get your listen check up that high, you're essentially Superman. I hear a cricket chirping in China!

Leaving aside epic levels and mundane performances that are effectively at Supes' level, it'not that impossible...

[Troacctid]

The synesthete power allows you to hear incorporeal creatures if they are visible.