Girallon's Blessing Savage Species version

[zergling.exe]

Asked this question in the RAW thread, got an irrelevant (to me) answer about the SpC version (spells share too few effects to really be the same, again to me). So I'll ask in its own thread.

Does a creature that has been enlarged in some fashion (enlarge person, giant size, etc) keep extra arms from girallon's blessing above the max for their original size when the size change effect ends?

[HammeredWharf]

The wording is vague enough for the best answer to be "ask your DM". I'd say "no".

[zergling.exe]

If you lose arms from shrinking, do you gain arms when you grow again?

[HammeredWharf]

That would make sense.

[Troacctid]

If you're not using the updated version, then you're not using the canonical rules, so your question doesn't have a canonical rules answer. Any time you use unofficial/unsupported material, you are on your own rules-wise. Figure something out. *shrug*

[zergling.exe]

If you're not using the updated version, then you're not using the canonical rules, so your question doesn't have a canonical rules answer. Any time you use unofficial/unsupported material, you are on your own rules-wise. Figure something out. *shrug*

That's just it. I don't see the SpC version as an update as it has completely different effects. The Savage Species version is a utility spell, while the SpC one is a combat spell. They are just too different in my eyes to be the same only "updated" and it kinda bugs me to be seemingly alone in that view. Perhaps the Savage Species one should have been called marilith's blessing, or named for some other many armed creature instead.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

That's just it. I don't see the SpC version as an update as it has completely different effects. The Savage Species version is a utility spell, while the SpC one is a combat spell. They are just too different in my eyes to be the same only "updated" and it kinda bugs me to be seemingly alone in that view. Perhaps the Savage Species one should have been called marilith's blessing, or named for some other many armed creature instead.

That's the issue. They're really not that different. When the spells first come online, both versions give one extra pair of arms. However, the Savage Species version imposes a possible penalty on important actions while the updated version gives you at least two extra claw attacks with no possibility for a penalty to boot!

Beyond that, the former version could be used in combat in the event that a character wants to use multiple two- or three-handed weapons or maybe also to add extra multipliers of strength modifier to damage (assuming that's a general rule and not something restricted solely to creatures with more than two arms). Beyond that and not even until at caster level 8 or more, the Spell Compendium is by far and away "better."


However, working under the context that Spell Compendium doesn't exist, then the Girallon's Blessing would only check the availability of extra arms when cast. Are you at least small sized? Gain an extra pair! Are you at least medium size and the caster level is 8 or more? Gain two arms! And so on. If the target happens to shrink while Girallon's Blessing is in effect, there's no reason for any arms to be lost as they were granted in such a state that they all were valid to be given.

[zergling.exe]

However, working under the context that Spell Compendium doesn't exist,

This sentence highlights the root of a problem I see every so often here. People don't often consider using the original version, just the updated one. When I asked this question on the RAW thread, I got an answer pertaining to the SpC version. It overwrites the SS version. No questions, you have to use the SpC version.

There is updated material so if you don't use it, you have no support. See Troacctid's post further up for proof of this. No suggestions on how to help solve a problem. Just, you have a problem, deal with it on your own. I ask questions on things I would like help on and get annoyed when people respond with this kind of thing. I know the game has had no new content for almost 10 years, but not everyone has access to all the updated material, or perhaps even wants to use it.

Now not everyone does this, and I appreciate that.

[Larkas]

This sentence highlights the root of a problem I see every so often here. People don't often consider using the original version, just the updated one. When I asked this question on the RAW thread, I got an answer pertaining to the SpC version. It overwrites the SS version. No questions, you have to use the SpC version.

There is updated material so if you don't use it, you have no support. See Troacctid's post further up for proof of this. No suggestions on how to help solve a problem. Just, you have a problem, deal with it on your own. I ask questions on things I would like help on and get annoyed when people respond with this kind of thing. I know the game has had no new content for almost 10 years, but not everyone has access to all the updated material, or perhaps even wants to use it.

Now not everyone does this, and I appreciate that.

Eh, just ignore what he said. The only place in this forum where pure RAW is everything that matters is in the RAW Q&A thread, and even there you can say "I don't have SpC/will not use SpC, how will this go then?". Anywhere else, people will be willing to help you as long as you clearly set the goals. Most people will help you regardless of the content being current, deprecated or even homebrew/3rd party. The few that won't be helpful are easily enough ignored.

That said, regarding SS's version, I'd say that the limit is set when the spell is cast. You don't lose arms when you become smaller, or gain arms when you become larger.

[atemu1234]

Unless stated otherwise, effects should and do stack. Hope that helps.

[zergling.exe]

I do ignore the people who are not helpful, that was just a rant to get it off my chest. It made me feel a lot better.

Perhaps I have just been seeing too much of Curmudgeon around lately, though. Might have burned up my tolerance for Strict RAW.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I do ignore the people who are not helpful, that was just a rant to get it off my chest. It made me feel a lot better.

Perhaps I have just been seeing too much of Curmudgeon around lately, though. Might have burned up my tolerance for Strict RAW.

Curmudgeon is for better or worse very often right. I may not agree with all of his claims to RAW, but the man is damn near always right and can be hard to argue against - if only because when it does actually come to arguing against him you end up in more of a rhetorical argument due to having to use nongame terms to resolve game issues (i.e, using the vernacular and all the hassles therein).


That being said, the usual "monks are proficient with their fists, drown healing doesn't work, and full-attacking with a ranged weapon still provokes even though the table says it doesn't" are all houserules so common that I'd dare say the vast majority of people have to do a double-take to even notice they are houserules. It is a shame to see that people very often bypass the question, however.


More to the point at hand, there is a "3rd" Girallon's Blessing spell out there, too! Arms of Plenty from Lords of Madness is another 3rd level spell that gives you two extra arms with claws. It lasts a less than Girallon's Blessing (1 min./level vs 10 min./level), the base damage is at d6 vs d4, and the text is explicit in it being an extra two pairs of arms. If you use the Spell Compendium version of Girallon's Blessing with Arms of Plenty, you end up with a nice attack routine of at least eight claws. If you use the Savage Species version, you still have the four claw attacks from Arms of Plenty, but you have remaining arms to do whatever it is you wish with them.