Tripping a mount

[Mr.Kraken]

What are the rules for tripping a mount (not the rider)? Are they treated as normal or is there any different ruling?

[OldTrees1]

Tripping is always the same*, so it is often easier to trip a mount than to knock the rider off.

*Except flying creatures stall(start falling) instead.

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm, since Trip starts with an unarmed strike, can you use Mounted Combat to defend against it?

[OldTrees1]

Hmm, since Trip starts with an unarmed strike, can you use Mounted Combat to defend against it?

It starts with a touch attack(hand or trip weapon vs touch AC for no damage/injury) not an unarmed strike(a damaging attack). However yes the Mounted Combat feat can negate 1 hit (such as the trip touch attack) if their Ride check exceeds the attack roll.

[Psyren]

Mounts can be hard to trip because they tend to be (a) Large or larger and (b) have 4 legs, thus being stable. So a horse in 3.5 gets a +8 to resist a trip even before you factor in its Strength score or any bonuses it may have.

[OldTrees1]

Mounts can be hard to trip because they tend to be (a) Large or larger and (b) have 4 legs, thus being stable. So a horse in 3.5 gets a +8 to resist a trip even before you factor in its Strength score or any bonuses it may have.

True, but they rarely have enough intelligence for Improved Trip (-4). Also, unless the rider is equipping their mount with a belt of strength, a mount's strength will fall off relative to a melee brute.

[Mr.Kraken]

Mounts can be hard to trip because they tend to be (a) Large or larger and (b) have 4 legs, thus being stable. So a horse in 3.5 gets a +8 to resist a trip even before you factor in its Strength score or any bonuses it may have.

I'm aware of that, what I was asking about if if having a rider would provide the mount a bonus or penalty to its trip check. For example, since it has a rider, maybe the mount would be considered as a creature of one size category larger in regards to its trip check. I mean, trying to trip a creature the size of a horse and with the added weight of its rider should be harder, right?

[ExLibrisMortis]

I mean, trying to trip a creature the size of a horse and with the added weight of its rider should be harder, right?
A mounted horse is say 20% heavier (300 lb light load for a heavy warhorse, which weighs in at 1500 lb or so), which makes it harder to move as a whole. However when tripping a horse, you'll more likely go for the (unprotected) legs (I think) than trying to push them over by the shoulder. You could say that a horse-with-rider is top heavy and gets an armour check penalty for carrying a person, reducing their ability to resist tripping when carrying a rider, which coincidentally cancels out the weight advantage. Just to make things simple.

[Psyren]

True, but they rarely have enough intelligence for Improved Trip (-4). Also, unless the rider is equipping their mount with a belt of strength, a mount's strength will fall off relative to a melee brute.

Well yeah, obviously a guy with the strength of a giant should be able to knock over a horse. That makes him really strong, it doesn't mean horses are easy to trip in general (for level 1 warriors and the like.)

[OldTrees1]

Well yeah, obviously a guy with the strength of a giant should be able to knock over a horse. That makes him really strong, it doesn't mean horses are easy to trip in general (for level 1 warriors and the like.)

I was actually comparing the mount(horse) to the rider(melee brute). At low level the mount is harder to trip (starts with a +4-8 advantage) than the rider. However at higher level the mount is easier to trip than the rider.

[Coidzor]

I was actually comparing the mount(horse) to the rider(melee brute). At low level the mount is harder to trip (starts with a +4-8 advantage) than the rider. However at higher level the mount is easier to trip than the rider.

Yeah, which is about when the mount becomes basically disposable or gets upgraded.