Bladelock small pimping

[Tarrab]

I´ve come to loathe when my players get the Pact of the Blade feature and end up realizing they need to multiclass to really make it worthy of anything, so I´ve come up with a small twist to improve it. Please, tell me if you think it´s OP:

-Pact of the Blade: When using a weapon as a pact weapon, you can make your weapon deal Force damage instead of normal damage. Also, you can increase the damage of the weapon´s die to 1d8 at level 4, 1d10 at level 7 and 1d12 at level 11.

So what do you guys think?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

you're aware of the Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker invocations, right?

a level 12 blade pact warlock - with a one hand simple - is probably going to end up doing 2x 1d12+3 Force plus 2x3 Necrotic. pretty strong considering warlock's already one of the best ranged characters. With a little work that warlock could even be using a shield.

a level 12 barbarian with a two-hander martial does... 2x1d12+7 physical, while raging. IMO with those changes the warlock ends up too close to martials, with the advantage of force damage. Pact weapons already count as magical to begin with.

[Fwiffo86]

I´ve come to loathe when my players get the Pact of the Blade feature and end up realizing they need to multiclass to really make it worthy of anything, so I´ve come up with a small twist to improve it. Please, tell me if you think it´s OP:

-Pact of the Blade: When using a weapon as a pact weapon, you can make your weapon deal Force damage instead of normal damage. Also, you can increase the damage of the weapon´s die to 1d8 at level 4, 1d10 at level 7 and 1d12 at level 11.

So what do you guys think?

You get to pick the weapon type of the blade anyway. You are considered proficient with it at all times. If you wanted, you could just have a 2d6 2h sword as your pact weapon. No need to change the die type, they already can do that.

[Easy_Lee]

There are really only two issues with blade pact:

AC sucks for non-dexers, unless you play mountain dwarf for medium armor or multiclass
They lack the at-will DPR to keep up with agonizing EB, but only after level 17.

There are two very simple changes that would fix this:

Update armor of shadows to work with the higher of Strength and Dexterity
Update hungering blade to allow a bonus attack with your pact weapon after character /warlock level 17, or add a blade pact feature to the same effect.

Allowing the warlock to use a double weapon, counting it as dual wielding whatever it is, also works to fix the second problem.

[Oscredwin]

I'm starting to think that Warlocks should be taking Polearm Mastery/GWM, go STR live with a 14-15AC and get Armor Of Hadar, Hex and Fiendpact. I think the reaction damage of Polearm Mastery, the -5/+10 of GWM, and the off turn damage of Armor of Hadar (25 damage when attacked at max level), plus the temporary hit points of Fiend Pact should balance out to a character who doesn't take that much damage and who is fighting a largish group of enemies. Bladepact isn't as good as the other two, but I think with a specific build it can compare to a barbarian as a melee character.

Such a character would be doing:

1d10+Str (5) +1d6+Cha (4) after level 12 twice on his turn for 18 damage on a hit, and 1d4+Str (5) +1d6+Cha (4) for 15 damage on a hit, plus an additional 18(14) damage when someone approaches him (if not hexed) and 25 damage when attacked. I don't have a good feel for Armor of Hadar uptime, especially given fiendpact temp HP and how they interact, and this damage is very dependant on what the enemies do, but this is a way to be in the thick of it and be doing damage. This build does a lot worse against solo enemies, but then you can focus on casting at them and using your big stick on the groups.

[Easy_Lee]

@Oscredwin that's right. Fighter 1 / warlock 19 with polearm mastery is currently the highest DPR version of a standard blade pact warlock (of which I am aware). Going pure blade pact warlock leads to a character who is better off casting agonizing blasts past level 17, which I believe is an oversight on WotC's part.

Some math for a dexer blade pact warlock dual wielding rapiers at level 20:
Attack: two attacks at 1d8+5+5, one at 1d8 = 33.5dpr. Max targets: 3
Agonizing blast: four attacks at 1d10+5 = 42dpr. Max targets: 4

And that's no good.

If blade pact could make a bonus attack with pact weapon after 17:
Attack: 3(1d8+5+5) = 43.5dpr

Theoretical max with a greatsword:
Attack: 3(2d6+5+5) = 51dpr

9 points higher than EB but one less target, shorter range, and no push. I think that's acceptable.

While it's true that magic weapons could push this more in the blade pact user's favor, there are magic weapons that enhance spell attacks too.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

IMO: The point of blade pact is not doing higher dpr but rather not being terrible at melee.

[Easy_Lee]

IMO: The point of blade pact is not doing higher dpr but rather not being terrible at melee.

There's no point in doing melee at level 17 and beyond by the RAW, though, unless you multiclass in one of a few very specific ways. For a gish, I think that's a legitimate problem.

[Fwiffo86]

Hmmmm.... given the Whirlwind thread, I thought a whirlylock might be an interesting concept. Especially given that with Armor of Agythis, you actually WANT people to OA you, just so you can cause even more damage.

[Garimeth]

Hmmmm.... given the Whirlwind thread, I thought a whirlylock might be an interesting concept. Especially given that with Armor of Agythis, you actually WANT people to OA you, just so you can cause even more damage.

My upcoming character is (no multi-classing allowed in this game) a polearm using bladelock using a custom patron that let's me get haste. Extra attacks are good in any build but are REALLY good for a bladelock and a paladin.