15 Weapon Fighting

[Naez]

Edit #3: Make that 16
Suppose you have a character equipped with the following
2 Knee Blades
2 Boot Blades
2 Sleeve Blades
2 Elbow Blades
2 Spiked Gauntlets
2 Crescent Knives
1 Braid Blade
1 Set of Armor Spikes
1 Set of Armor Razors
and Monk's Unarmed Strike

What is the maximum number of attacks this could legally make as a full round action? What are the rules to doing so? And what feats would it require?

Edit #1: This can already make 5 attacks at 0 BAB.

Crescent knives attack twice each time you use them, with TWF that's 4 attacks right there. A braid blade can be added to the end of any full-attack at a -5 (-2 with 5 ranks in Tumble)

So the ABSOLUTE minimum is 5. I'm trying to find ways to legally work in the other weapons.

Edit #2: Forgot about special weapons restriction of FoB corrected for it.

Edit #3: Was informed of Armor Razors which after researching may be equipped simultaneously with Armor Spikes and act in much the same way but deal slashing damage instead of piercing.

Edit #4: I'm not looking for more limbs I'm looking for a way to turn a regular humanoid into the Tazmanian Devil

[Forrestfire]

Two.


If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.

With multiweapon fighting, the amount of extra attacks are limited by how many arms you have, regardless of how many weapons you can wield. For two-armed creatures, the default is only being allowed a single off-hand weapon.

[snailgosh]

Since everything except for the Unarmed strike is a manufactured weapon, I guess without extra feats you can do the number of iteratives allowed by your BAB and maybe an additional unarmed strike attack at BAB -5, if your DM sees it as a Natural Weapon.

OTOH it would be hard to actually find an unarmed part of your body to make the attack with

[Darrin]

What is the maximum number of attacks this could legally make as a full round action? What are the rules to doing so? And what feats would it require?

The number of attacks you can make is not really determined by the number of weapons you are wielding. Regardless of how many weapons are strapped to your body, you have to choose one as your primary weapon, and if you're a humanoid with only two arms, you can only have one offhand weapon.

Now, there are some rules quibbles about switching your primary weapon between iterative attacks, which the rules tend to support. But once you select an offhand weapon, you're stuck with it as an offhand weapon for the rest of the round.

If you have three or more hands, you can get additional offhand attacks with Multi-Weapon Fighting, but the rules become a bit "dodgy", because the MWF feats weren't exactly ported over to 3.5 all that well. The basic MWF feat exists in the 3.5 MM, but the Improved/Greater MWF feats only appear in Savage Species (regarded as a "3.25" sourcebook) and the Divine section of the SRD (not considered by some to be a 3.5 "publication"). Even more troubling, the BAB requirements for Improved/Greater MWF were not updated to match the 3.5 version of TWF.

That being said... if you mean, can we build something that attacks with 15 different weapons... yes. It would look something like...

Anthropomorphic Giant Squid (8 arms) + Insectile Template (+4 arms)
Girallon's blessing spell (+2 arms)
Arms o' plenty spell (+2 arms)
Dragon Tail/Prehensile Tail feats (+1 arm)

Or you could add a bunch of grafts. TWF OffHandbook Section IV: Helping Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15034740&postcount=11) goes over several methods to add more arms.

[Waddacku]

Two.



With multiweapon fighting, the amount of extra attacks are limited by how many arms you have, regardless of how many weapons you can wield. For two-armed creatures, the default is only being allowed a single off-hand weapon.

I believe the braid blade has wonky rules that would let you make a further attack with it.

[Milodiah]

I feel like there's a rule for some sort of tackling strike that allows use of all at once, but I can't remember if I'm thinking of 3.5 or something else.

[Necroticplague]

Someone's probably gonna beat me to this, but :

Iteratives+1, assuming normal humanoid. The MWF and TWF rules say that you have one main hand and the rest are off hands, and you get extra attacks with your off-hand weapons. This is entirely unrelated to whether the off-hand weapons are actually wielded in the hand or not (Heck, a greatsword main hand and a braid-blade offhand technically works, though the penalties would bite).

Note that some interpretations of what an UAS is would allow you to also use it as a secondary natural attack, in addition to the TWF/MWF you're doing.I personally don't use that interpretation, but some people do.

[Seerow]

Out of curiosity do you have the sources for those handy? I'm familiar with about half, but there's a number of different weapon types there I can't remember seeing before.

[Naez]

Out of curiosity do you have the sources for those handy? I'm familiar with about half, but there's a number of different weapon types there I can't remember seeing before.

Braid blade is Dungeon Magazine 120

Knee Blades, Boot Blades, Sleeve Blades, Elbow Blades are all Complete Scoundrel

Crescent Knife is I believe Dragon Magazine 275

Spiked gauntlets and armor spikes are core

[Seerow]

Braid blade is Dungeon Magazine 120

Knee Blades, Boot Blades, Sleeve Blades, Elbow Blades are all Complete Scoundrel

Crescent Knife is I believe Dragon Magazine 275

Spiked gauntlets and armor spikes are core

Thank you. I remembered Boot and Knee blades from CS, but didn't remember Sleeve/Elbow blades being there. Crescent Knife and Braid Blade are in older issues of dragon than I ever looked at, thanks for the reference on those.

[Flickerdart]

I believe the braid blade has wonky rules that would let you make a further attack with it.
The extra attack rule isn't wonky (on a full attack, braid blade is an extra attack made at -5, or -2 if you have X ranks in Tumble). What's wonky is there are no rules preventing a character from braiding on as many braid blades as they can carry, and getting infinity free attacks at -5, so most DMs restrict it to 1 blade.

[Karl Aegis]

I seriously doubt most of those are special monk weapons. What you really want is to take martial monk for snap kick at level 1. (Dragon 310 I think)(Unless it doesn't qualify for Snap Kick, then don't even bother with Monk)

[Curmudgeon]

I seriously doubt most of those are special monk weapons. What you really want is to take martial monk for snap kick at level 1. (Dragon 310 I think)(Unless it doesn't qualify for Snap Kick, then don't even bother with Monk)
It doesn't qualify. Martial Monk only gets to pick [Fighter] feats, and Snap Kick isn't one of them. There are exactly three [Fighter] feats in Tome of Battle; it's not a Fighter-friendly supplement.

[Deadline]

I seriously doubt most of those are special monk weapons. What you really want is to take martial monk for snap kick at level 1. (Dragon 310 I think)(Unless it doesn't qualify for Snap Kick, then don't even bother with Monk)

The important part of this, to the OP, is that you can't flurry with anything other than unarmed strikes and monk weapons. Since the weapons you are using aren't monk weapons, you can't flurry, so your example would grant you at most 5 attacks (assuming the Crescent Knife in the off-hand grants two attacks instead of one). You would need multi-weapon fighting to use all of those weapons, and that has a pre-requisite of more than two arms.

[PhoenixV]

I think at this point what you really have is spiked armor. I know you want them to be specific weapons but once you put a pointy or sharp object on basically every single part of your body you end up with... spiked armor.

[Knaight]

I think at this point what you really have is spiked armor. I know you want them to be specific weapons but once you put a pointy or sharp object on basically every single part of your body you end up with... spiked armor.

Which doesn't get you much in the way of extra attacks. It shouldn't either - yeah, you may have 15 weapons, but there's no particularly feasible way to actually use all of them. You just remained armed in a grapple and can probably convince just about any GM to give you a substantial circumstance bonus to escape artist checks.

[Necroticplague]

Speaking of which, you forgot Armor Razors on your list (which are pretty much armor spikes, but slashing).

[Flickerdart]

Speaking of which, you forgot Armor Razors on your list (which are pretty much armor spikes, but slashing).
Now all we need are armour clubs...

[Forrestfire]

Isn't that just called "unarmed strike"? :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

Don't be ridiculous, an unarmed strike isn't attached to your armour.

[Telonius]

If you're really looking to maximize the number of attacks per round, you'd need the Lightning Mace feat (from Complete Warrior). Given an opponent with sufficient damage reduction, you could theoretically be attacking him forever (as long as you keep rolling critical threats).

[Forrestfire]

Don't be ridiculous, an unarmed strike isn't attached to your armour.

Sovereign Glue some monks to your armor, then.

[Telonius]

Does the armor take a penalty for not being proficient with Monks? Or is a Monk one of the special Armor weapons?

[VariSami]

Now all we need are armour clubs...

Albeit the above discussion is funnier, even the PHB has rules for gauntlets... Which are essentially bludgeoning weapons attached to your armor. My, they may even be used during a grapple.

Now, the question becomes what happens when you use gauntlets like armor spikes instead of putting them on.

[Deadasadoor]

Anthropomorphic Giant Squid (8 arms) + Insectile Template (+4 arms)
Girallon's blessing spell (+2 arms)
Arms o' plenty spell (+2 arms)
Dragon Tail/Prehensile Tail feats (+1 arm) I don't think insectile grants extra attacks, but I'm AFB right now. Try Obah-Blessed from dungeon 136, has a +2 LA version that gives 2 extra arms, and a +3 template for 4 extra arms. Both versions of the template also grant Multiweapon Fighting and some other bonuses.

[Darrin]

I don't think insectile grants extra attacks, but I'm AFB right now.

It explicitly doesn't grant additional attacks. But it does grant extra hands, and that's what Multi-Weapon Fighting cares about, as the number of your offhand attacks is set to (number of hands - 1).

[Deadasadoor]

It explicitly doesn't grant additional attacks. But it does grant extra hands, and that's what Multi-Weapon Fighting cares about, as the number of your offhand attacks is set to (number of hands - 1).

Ah, bad interpretation on my part. I always wondered why someone would ever take insectile if the arms didn't give extra attacks, even with MWF. For even more arms, and going with the insect theme, Fang of Lolth from Song and Silence. Grants 4 more spider limbs, which explicitly work with MWF. However, that's a 9 level investment at minimum. This character would look more like a Chiwidencha then a humanoid at that point.

[Flickerdart]

Albeit the above discussion is funnier, even the PHB has rules for gauntlets... Which are essentially bludgeoning weapons attached to your armor.
Gauntlets can't be used when your hands are busy (whether with a weapon or carrying something). When it comes to armour spikes, I can hold a halfling in each hand and still boogie my way through combat by attacking exclusively with my butt.

[Deadasadoor]

Gauntlets can't be used when your hands are busy (whether with a weapon or carrying something). When it comes to armour spikes, I can hold a halfling in each hand and still boogie my way through combat by attacking exclusively with my butt.

Immature as at is, I now want to concept a Goliath Barbarian who wields Halflings and attacks with his butt-spikes.

[Curmudgeon]

Gauntlets can't be used when your hands are busy (whether with a weapon or carrying something). When it comes to armour spikes, I can hold a halfling in each hand and still boogie my way through combat by attacking exclusively with my butt.
Your mount might take issue with that particular spiky area. The way armor spikes were traditionally used, there were some obvious gaps in the coverage.

[Flickerdart]

Your mount might take issue with that particular spiky area. The way armor spikes were traditionally used, there were some obvious gaps in the coverage.
Nonsense! Why do you think military saddle gives bonus for staying in saddle? Is because butt spikes lodge in mount, difficult to pull out.

[animewatcha]

Okay, I might have missed over a post or two while trying to compile this..

Okay we have...


I don't think insectile grants extra attacks, but I'm AFB right now. Try Obah-Blessed from dungeon 136, has a +2 LA version that gives 2 extra arms, and a +3 template for 4 extra arms. Both versions of the template also grant Multiweapon Fighting and some other bonuses.




Anthropomorphic Giant Squid (8 arms) + Insectile Template (+4 arms)
Girallon's blessing spell (+2 arms)
Arms o' plenty spell (+2 arms)
Dragon Tail/Prehensile Tail feats (+1 arm)

Or you could add a bunch of grafts. TWF OffHandbook Section IV: Helping Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15034740&postcount=11) goes over several methods to add more arms.

For every arm.. A crescent knive for double the attacks per arm..

Combined with...


If you're really looking to maximize the number of attacks per round, you'd need the Lightning Mace feat (from Complete Warrior). Given an opponent with sufficient damage reduction, you could theoretically be attacking him forever (as long as you keep rolling critical threats).

Crit shenanigans for more threats..

For I don't know how many more attacks. You will be rolling d20s half the combat.


Albeit the above discussion is funnier, even the PHB has rules for gauntlets... Which are essentially bludgeoning weapons attached to your armor. My, they may even be used during a grapple.

Now, the question becomes what happens when you use gauntlets like armor spikes instead of putting them on.

Use monks with the +x Morphing whatever necklace of natural attacks to turn them into gauntlets.


Ooooo +x Morphing whatever 'necklace of natural attack' ed monks turned into cresent knives...

[Deadasadoor]

Obah-blessed and Insectile don't stack unfortunately. Obah-blessed has a clause stating it can't be added to a creature that already has 3+ arms, and Insectile is an inherited template. The main difference between the two is the ability bonuses. OB gives overall better ability boosts, with +6 STR/CHA/DEX I think, but is a +3 template. Insectile gives a climb speed and some other skill stuff, and I think it's only +2.