Build a Fortress

[LoyalPaladin]

Alright everyone, yesterday I posted a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400522-Starting-a-Guild) about creating a guild. Well, I've spoken to my DM and consulted some of my fellow players. Since I now have the green light, I will be creating the ultimate guild home / base of operations. Help me deck this place out. When we start construction, we will be level ECL 13 and hope to be able to complete it by level 16. This is a long haul project.

Information to go off of:
Renovating an old disparaged orc fortress located between Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate named Zual Jerak. We change this from a run down keep to a guild fortress. The guild will be an adventurers guild with the purpose of taking on minor quests, bolstering local militia, and possibly withstanding a raid from the Yuan-Ti.

Things We Need:
Reusable Teleportals
Self Sufficiency
Watchtowers
Defenses
Wards Against Evil
Long Ranged Weaponry

Alright everyone. What can you come up with?

[Naez]

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Should have everything you need in it.

[LoyalPaladin]

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Should have everything you need in it.
I haven't looked at that book yet, I ordered it. But I also want some zany and out there ideas!

[Blackhawk748]

I haven't looked at that book yet, I ordered it. But I also want some zany and out there ideas!

Well obviously it has to fly, preferably with use activated fireball launchers on the walls.

[LoyalPaladin]

Well obviously it has to fly, preferably with use activated fireball launchers on the walls.
Aerial defenses! Do we have to be in Eberron to have an airship?

[ObnoxiousKender]

Secret passages are always a good thing. Need a way to get in/out if you don't want to be seen or if in the worst case the fortress is overtaken. If the fortress is build on top of a natural cave system that's always a good start.

[endur]

Since it is a former orc fortress, you may have squatters, camp followers, and other former residents who still live there.

Don't attack them. EMPLOY THEM!

They can be your house keepers, cooking staff, etc.

That four year old half-orc may grow up someday to be a future guild barbarian.

[Seerow]

Aerial defenses! Do we have to be in Eberron to have an airship?

Stronghold Builder's guide has rules for making any fortress capable of flight. The question is how much money do you have available to spend.

[LoyalPaladin]

Secret passages are always a good thing. Need a way to get in/out if you don't want to be seen or if in the worst case the fortress is overtaken. If the fortress is build on top of a natural cave system that's always a good start.
Don't pretend you aren't in on this! Though, I did forget to mention there a large underground section of this keep. So, if we can take advantage of that I'd be happy. How many wyrmlings can we train? Haha.

[Blackhawk748]

Aerial defenses! Do we have to be in Eberron to have an airship?

No, you just need to bind some air elementals or a keel of the winds (i think thats what its called) the keel is in Arms and Equipment guide

[LoyalPaladin]

No, you just need to bind some air elementals or a keel of the winds (i think thats what its called) the keel is in Arms and Equipment guide
I'll have to look that up! Air elementals that sling fire elementals?


Since it is a former orc fortress, you may have squatters, camp followers, and other former residents who still live there.

Don't attack them. EMPLOY THEM!

They can be your house keepers, cooking staff, etc.

That four year old half-orc may grow up someday to be a future guild barbarian.
I would love to do this. However... we sort of killed their leader... and took the hammer of Gruumsh


Stronghold Builder's guide has rules for making any fortress capable of flight. The question is how much money do you have available to spend.
An excellent question! We are about 15% over WBL usually. So we plan to get this done around level 17ish.

[Blackhawk748]

Why not! Lets go balls to the wall crazy here.

[ObnoxiousKender]

Don't pretend you aren't in on this! Though, I did forget to mention there a large underground section of this keep. So, if we can take advantage of that I'd be happy. How many wyrmlings can we train? Haha.

Well there was a tamed Wyvern and a couple of dracolisks/dragonlings.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hallow.htm), multiple times if necessary to cover the whole area, preferably with Invisibility Purge attached.

Permanency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) with various spells, for example:

Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesPrivateSanctum.htm) + Permanency in key areas.

Teleportation Circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) + Permanency, to reach a particular location (a small cabin a short walk from a major city, for example).

Continual Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/continualFlame.htm) for light sources.

For sustainability, get an automatic reset magic device trap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost) that activates Create Food and Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createFoodAndWater.htm) when triggered. So simply walking across it gives the individual enough food and water to sustain fifteen medium humanoids for one day, an unlimited number of times/day. The cost to create such a trap would be 7,500 gp and 600 xp, or if you have an NPC make it they'll probably charge 15,000 gp as standard for a magic item's base price vs cost to create. If this is permitted, then you should make similar traps for Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Endure Elements which everyone walks over daily, etc.

[LoyalPaladin]

Why not! Lets go balls to the wall crazy here.
Fireballs to the walls. We could also have earth elementals to form a quick sunken valley around the fort for defense. Then fill it with water elementals! OR SLIMES!


Hallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hallow.htm), multiple times if necessary to cover the whole area, preferably with Invisibility Purge attached.

Permanency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) with various spells, for example:

Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesPrivateSanctum.htm) + Permanency in key areas.

Teleportation Circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) + Permanency, to reach a particular location (a small cabin a short walk from a major city, for example).

Continual Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/continualFlame.htm) for light sources.

For sustainability, get an automatic reset magic device trap (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost) that activates Create Food and Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createFoodAndWater.htm) when triggered. So simply walking across it gives the individual enough food and water to sustain fifteen medium humanoids for one day, an unlimited number of times/day. The cost to create such a trap would be 7,500 gp and 600 xp, or if you have an NPC make it they'll probably charge 15,000 gp as standard for a magic item's base price vs cost to create. If this is permitted, then you should make similar traps for Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Endure Elements which everyone walks over daily, etc.
Oh man... this place is going to make us the most powerf- I mean... Will be a beacon of hope to all that look upon it.

[Blackhawk748]

Fireballs to the walls. We could also have earth elementals to form a quick sunken valley around the fort for defense. Then fill it with water elementals! OR SLIMES!

Now we're cooking with lava! Also, get a few Skull Talismans of Summon Monster (whatever) then you can shoot elementals at people.

Also pet oozes in a moat they cant exit is genius, and mean (to the idiots attacking you)


Oh man... this place is going to make us the most powerf- I mean... Will be a beacon of hope to all that look upon it.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. We know the truth.

[LoyalPaladin]

Also pet oozes in a moat they cant exit is genius, and mean (to the idiots attacking you)
The trick is getting them in there...

Paladin Edit:
Do you have to feed oozes?



Whatever helps you sleep at night. We know the truth.
You can't handle the truth!

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Massive steel fortress about 5000 meters tall that towers fire smaller normal stone castle towers(10 meters tall) off of its massive ballistas.

[Red Fel]

My advice? Populate it.

I'm not talking about armies of squatters or dragons or the like (although, as an experienced villain, I find that dragons are the perfect complement to any decor). I mean people.

Look, you want to make a helpful adventurer's guild, right? To do that, you need two things: Newbie adventurers, and clients. Surround yourself with civilians, and you'll soon have an ample supply of both.

But it's so much more than that. Surround yourself with agriculture, and your town will be comfortably self-sufficient in terms of food and lumber. Your surplus of lumber will draw craftsmen and architects, and soon your industry will grow as well. As your keep becomes a town, it will become a center of trade in food, raw materials, and crafts, drawing merchants and investment, and growing all the more. This, in turn, will draw bandits and enemies. All of these things - tired farmers who need help tending the crops and flocks, craftsmen who need day labor, merchants who need caravan guards, bandits who need a whipping - create a perfect training ground for aspiring young heroes!

You want to create a place where you can bring together heroes for the common people? You need to start by surrounding your keep with the common people!

[atemu1234]

Let's not forget the cannons made of commoners.

[Seerow]

Let's not forget the cannons made of commoners.

Those are railguns not cannons.

[atemu1234]

Those are railguns not cannons.

That throw commoners.

[Blackhawk748]

My advice? Populate it.

I'm not talking about armies of squatters or dragons or the like (although, as an experienced villain, I find that dragons are the perfect complement to any decor). I mean people.

Look, you want to make a helpful adventurer's guild, right? To do that, you need two things: Newbie adventurers, and clients. Surround yourself with civilians, and you'll soon have an ample supply of both.

But it's so much more than that. Surround yourself with agriculture, and your town will be comfortably self-sufficient in terms of food and lumber. Your surplus of lumber will draw craftsmen and architects, and soon your industry will grow as well. As your keep becomes a town, it will become a center of trade in food, raw materials, and crafts, drawing merchants and investment, and growing all the more. This, in turn, will draw bandits and enemies. All of these things - tired farmers who need help tending the crops and flocks, craftsmen who need day labor, merchants who need caravan guards, bandits who need a whipping - create a perfect training ground for aspiring young heroes!

You want to create a place where you can bring together heroes for the common people? You need to start by surrounding your keep with the common people!

I feel that i should be concerned that our High Evil Overlord is giving advice on how to make the Capital of Good Guys, though that may be just so he knows where they all are.....

[endur]

I would love to do this. However... we sort of killed their leader... and took the hammer of Gruum


That old leader was a tyrant. None of his kidnapped women wanted him back. And that four year old half-orc is looking for a new father figure.

(My dwarven paladin actually adopted a half orc child after slaying an orc chief once.)

[Ruethgar]

Try to leadership a craftsman cohort, Magical Artisan taken three times with the Eberron crafting feats and Mercantile Background is a lovely way to cut costs. Also, try and get a few castings of War Rope Trick and then make portals that lead to them. Dispel the Rope Trick and the portal still works. It is a cheap way to have a defensive position. The space is not on a plane so no teleport or plane shift, only a wish can get you in if the portal is locked. It can hold up to 10,000 troops and endless non-creature items.

[atemu1234]

That old leader was a tyrant. None of his kidnapped women wanted him back. And that four year old half-orc is looking for a new father figure.

(My dwarven paladin actually adopted a half orc child after slaying an orc chief once.)
Well, my players once 'tried' to adopt four young goblins, but there were... issues.

[Matticussama]

If you have a feat slot to spare, the Landlord feat from Stronghold Builder's Guide is a must have. You get "free" gold each level to use solely for the purpose of building your stronghold, so that you don't have to spend all of your personal WBL; the fluff of how you get the gold is that it comes from whatever services your stronghold provides, so in this case guild fees plus sales and services of whatever your guild is going to do.

Plus, if you do spend your personal gold outside of the "free" gold, the feat will match it to a certain extent based on level; so if you are level 15 for example, you would get 250,000 gp for "free" to build your stronghold, and it would match up to 50,000GP additional contribution. So if you spend 50,000GP of personal funds, you get 350,000GP for your stronghold! Totally worth it for any Leadership-y character wanting to build an awesome Fortress.

[LoyalPaladin]

My advice? Populate it.
It is always concerning to my alignment when I say "I agree with Red Fel", but I almost always do. I've got Leadership, so I plan on getting most of my followers into the fortress to ease construction and get the jump on my guild's flow of "jobs" from the surrounding city.


I feel that i should be concerned that our High Evil Overlord is giving advice on how to make the Capital of Good Guys, though that may be just so he knows where they all are.....
I ask myself that question often. Sort of like, those LE types are hard to read.


If you have a feat slot to spare, the Landlord feat from Stronghold Builder's Guide is a must have.
That... is amazing... it wastes a slot... but it is so tempting.

[Necrovosh]

(...)
That... is amazing... it wastes a slot... but it is so tempting.

Maybe it doesn't have to. Talk to your DM about paying for one of those "this place gives me a feat" sort of things. You'd invest money now, and get back more wealth for stronghold expansion later. Maybe purchasing equipment for an old mine that sits beneath your stronghold, or paying for guild registration and buying off the kingdom's rulers to legitimize or endorse your guild? It's how one of my players justified "buying" undead leadership (purchasing an onyx mine) before that campaign crumbled under the weight of finals and summer. Remember that for the architecture, you can cast walls of stone and stone shape, and just mold the keep to your liking before all the crazy permanent magical effects get placed. A little magically enhanced Craft (sculpting) goes a long way towards making an orcish fortress look more like a bastion of goodly defense.

Speaking of defenses, a spell trap of Guards and Wards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/guardsAndWards.htm) can quickly turn a peaceful(?) adventuring guild-house into a locked down super fortress. One casting is mediocre, but making every door silent imaged? Every corridor filled with stinking clouds and suggestions? Remember to D-lock and regular lock your control room, though, or some bumbling apprentice could accidently trigger some bad stuff. I don't recommend forbiddance on anything other than places you know you won't want anyone else to be. The password clause makes it weak, but the unaligned damage means you'll be searching for dead rats any time one heads the wrong direction in the wall. Shambler is pretty silly if you use them as 7 month long guards, and stick them on electric damage traps (shocking grasp once per round?) Maybe an electrified moat with them acting as barges, and no real bridge? Resist fire 10 means they're fine even if the surface of the moat is flaming.

[LoyalPaladin]

Maybe it doesn't have to. Talk to your DM about paying for one of those "this place gives me a feat" sort of things.
I think I've managed to "buy" the feat with my cohort. To get anything even a tiny bit cheesy in our campaign we need a well written fluff along with a good reason. So by sacrificing my cohort essentially, I'll get the landlord feat.

While on the topic of a cohort, I've designed a Hill Dwarf 3 Paladin / 2 Fighter / 4 Battlesmith. He has to have Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Endurance, and Landlord. Does anyone else have any suggestions? Any feats that boost crafting or help me build a fortress would be nice.

[Necrovosh]

I think I've managed to "buy" the feat with my cohort. To get anything even a tiny bit cheesy in our campaign we need a well written fluff along with a good reason. So by sacrificing my cohort essentially, I'll get the landlord feat.

While on the topic of a cohort, I've designed a Hill Dwarf 3 Paladin / 2 Fighter / 4 Battlesmith. He has to have Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Endurance, and Landlord. Does anyone else have any suggestions? Any feats that boost crafting or help me build a fortress would be nice.

Mercantile Background? Have him run the supply depot in your guild-house, or possibly a DMG2 style shop (though the rules here can be annoyingly restrictive.) He can buy stuff over time (once per month) at 75% cost, and sell stuff he makes for 75% as opposed to 50%. If he's coming with you, it's still a useful feat, as then the whole party sells unwanted goods at 75%.

Also, remember that if this is spread out over months or years, some craft skills pay out better on average than profession ones, and your followers can contribute cash to your domi- I mean, stabilization campaign. Don't neglect the power of money over time.

[LoyalPaladin]

Mercantile Background? Have him run the supply depot in your guild-house, or possibly a DMG2 style shop (though the rules here can be annoyingly restrictive.) He can buy stuff over time (once per month) at 75% cost, and sell stuff he makes for 75% as opposed to 50%. If he's coming with you, it's still a useful feat, as then the whole party sells unwanted goods at 75%.

Also, remember that if this is spread out over months or years, some craft skills pay out better on average than profession ones, and your followers can contribute cash to your domi- I mean, stabilization campaign. Don't neglect the power of money over time.
Sort of, I'm a Paladin in our campaign so he will be a former Paladin who didn't feel he was up to snuff. We have a great way attain magic items from what we think is a homebrew shop of our DMs... so we aren't TOO worried about that. However, I'd like to make this Dwarf the master of all construction workers.

[Necrovosh]

Sort of, I'm a Paladin in our campaign so he will be a former Paladin who didn't feel he was up to snuff. We have a great way attain magic items from what we think is a homebrew shop of our DMs... so we aren't TOO worried about that. However, I'd like to make this Dwarf the master of all construction workers.

It isn't that he's getting you magic items so much as making the building purchases, if you are having him as the landlord. He gets basically a double return on gold he spends into the stronghold (that's what the Landlord feat does) and he buys stronghold space fillers for 75% as much. The amount of time it takes for them to build the various bits and bobs in the stronghold make sure that he can overall reduce the cost of the stronghold by 65% or so, as opposed to the just 50% from Landlord.

[Ruethgar]

As I mentioned before, the Eberron crafting feats Exceptional Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan go very well with two iterations of Magical Artisan. Of course you'll want flaws to accommodate the heavy feat tax and the initial crafting feat to qualify.

Hill Dwarf
Paladin 3/Survivalist Fighter 2/Battlesmith 4/ ??? 3
Flaw: Create Device(Scribe Scroll)
Flaw: Extraordinary Artisan
1st: Mercantile Background
3rd: Exceptional Artisan
Fighter: Endurance
Fighter: Weapon Focus(Warhammer)
6th: Magical Artisan(Extraordinary)
9th: Landlord
12th: Magical Artisan(Exceptional)

0.5*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75~84% off plus the 25k initial funds. Add on you followers building it for free(or at least just food) and you get another 30% off.
Of course it is fully reasonable to rule that magical artisan doesn't stack with itself, in which case you can stop at 9th with a mere 79% off.

Edit: Also note the rules for mining in Races of the Dragon and the Knowledge Engineering DC 20 to tell if a tunnel will collapse. Those can be used in conjunction to dig escape tunnels at a much cheaper price than buying the tunnel as part of the Stronghold.

[LoyalPaladin]

0.5*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75~84% off plus the 25k initial funds. Add on you followers building it for free(or at least just food) and you get another 30% off.
Of course it is fully reasonable to rule that magical artisan doesn't stack with itself, in which case you can stop at 9th with a mere 79% off.
I'll run that by the DM to see if he'll let me do that. Because holy cow would that be nice.


Also note the rules for mining in Races of the Dragon and the Knowledge Engineering DC 20 to tell if a tunnel will collapse. Those can be used in conjunction to dig escape tunnels at a much cheaper price than buying the tunnel as part of the Stronghold.
Aren't really buying a fortress per say... it just happens to be there with lots of tunnels.


It isn't that he's getting you magic items so much as making the building purchases, if you are having him as the landlord. He gets basically a double return on gold he spends into the stronghold (that's what the Landlord feat does) and he buys stronghold space fillers for 75% as much. The amount of time it takes for them to build the various bits and bobs in the stronghold make sure that he can overall reduce the cost of the stronghold by 65% or so, as opposed to the just 50% from Landlord.
Ah. I see. Well, I'll see what I can work out there... I think we've got a way to slowly upgrade the place. With it's semi-central location, we should be able to bring in lots of work and commerce.

Side note:
Does anyone have a chart to show how much a magical beast costs? Trying to sales pitch the gelatinous cube idea to my party members who are... less than fond of oozes...

[M Placeholder]

Don't forget sanitation. That can be a killer. My advice is arrange a party to track down an Otyugh and comvice him to handle the waste that will be produced. They can also double as security too. Remember when talking to the Otyugh to mention the sheer quality of waste that will be produced and its quality.

[Blackhawk748]

Side note:
Does anyone have a chart to show how much a magical beast costs? Trying to sales pitch the gelatinous cube idea to my party members who are... less than fond of oozes...

Call the oozes "waste disposal" Usually you use an Otyugh, but if you can trap a few oozes in METAL BAWXES!!! you can just dump them into your moat (which will have sheer sides) and then you just dump your waste into the moat, where it is eaten by the "water"

[Seerow]

Call the oozes "waste disposal" Usually you use an Otyugh, but if you can trap a few oozes in METAL BAWXES!!! you can just dump them into your moat (which will have sheer sides) and then you just dump your waste into the moat, where it is eaten by the "water"

At that point, why not just get a moat of acid?


And once you have a moat of acid, you may as well get some acid breathing sharks to live in it.

[Blackhawk748]

At that point, why not just get a moat of acid?


And once you have a moat of acid, you may as well get some acid breathing sharks to live in it.

........ This plan is so much better than mine, so IM IN! Lets ad Acidborn Giant Squid while we're at it, but you only let them out during sieges.

[M Placeholder]

At that point, why not just get a moat of acid?


And once you have a moat of acid, you may as well get some acid breathing sharks to live in it.

Opposing armies will try to fill the moat with limestone. You may want to make a note of sedimentary rock outcrops and quarries in the area.

[Ruethgar]

There isn't a set price for all creatures in D&D, some are listed, most are not. However one can use the slave prices from Lords of Madness.

BoVD doesn't- but Lords of Madness (in the Neogi section) does.

Basic formula: (CR x CR) X 100 gp. (CRs less than 1 are round up to 1).

So, minimum price of a slave is 100 gp.

If the slave has exceptional abilities, price may be multiplied (typically by between 1 and 4).

You could also true create some fertile eggs if you have access to that spell.

[LoyalPaladin]

........ This plan is so much better than mine, so IM IN! Lets ad Acidborn Giant Squid while we're at it, but you only let them out during sieges.
... Acidborn Kraken? I really want to yell "UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!"


Don't forget sanitation. That can be a killer. My advice is arrange a party to track down an Otyugh and comvice him to handle the waste that will be produced. They can also double as security too. Remember when talking to the Otyugh to mention the sheer quality of waste that will be produced and its quality.
I want to do this. I love the unusual.


You could also true create some fertile eggs if you have access to that spell.
I am unfamiliar with this. Oozes hatch from eggs?


At that point, why not just get a moat of acid?
This is D&D! You know the rules, we obviously need living gelatinous acid.

[Blackhawk748]

... Acidborn Kraken? I really want to yell "UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!"


I want to do this. I love the unusual.


I am unfamiliar with this. Oozes hatch from eggs?


This is D&D! You know the rules, we obviously need living gelatinous acid.

Firstly, yes, yell that, its mandatory.

On the ooze egg point, he was talking about magical creatures in general, oozes are created thus "One Ooze + Idiot with Sword = Two Oozes"

On that last point, just toss oozes into your acid moat, now you having living blobs of acid in your acid moat.

[LoyalPaladin]

Firstly, yes, yell that, its mandatory.

On the ooze egg point, he was talking about magical creatures in general, oozes are created thus "One Ooze + Idiot with Sword = Two Oozes"

On that last point, just toss oozes into your acid moat, now you having living blobs of acid in your acid moat.
I'm lawful, I love mandatory!

D'aww... I wanted baby ooze eggs. I'm relatively fond of the ooze family of monsters. My party on the other hand has nightmares about them.

Will that damage them?