Need low level evil ideas

[KindOfGoodGuy]

So I am in my first all evil group in Pathfinder, but I am struggling with coming up with creative ways to be evil and do evil things. I am a level 3 Gnome Cleric of Asmodeus so most of the stuff I have been doing is revolved around the Reanimate Dead, Lesser spell. So far my only noteworthy exploits have been the following:

1. Killed the alligators (with the party's help of course) roaming in the sewers and then reanimated them as zombies. Once I left the sewers an hour or so later I released my control over them so they would go about murdering anything and everything that came down there. (it also helps that as they rot, their diseased and foul carcasses will further pollute the water)

2. Sneaked in a church of Sarenrae at night and murdered the priest residing there and raised him as a zombie. Then I waited until the daily congregation of people arrived for the morning sermon. After they all filed in, I locked all the doors to escape (minus the one I was at) and commanded the now dead priest to murder his followers. He got through 7 people before he went down.

So do any of you guys have good ideas for evil things to do? I know that trying to be evil is a very proactive thing so I would like some help here if possible.

Also my only noteworthy magical item is a cane that lets me use a 1 minute long invisibility spell 2 times a day. Figured that might be noteworthy.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Random acts of violence and evil are the province of demons; they're the destroyers.
Calculated acts of evil that net you power and control over others is for devils; they're the tyrants.


May I suggest charm-type and command-type spells if possible? Magically persuade people to commit evil without them realizing it, then build a powerbase off blackmailing them into even worse evil.

[Crake]

I dunno, all that seems chaotic evil, not really something a (presumably) lawful evil cleric of asmodeus would do. I'd imagine you'd be more intent on building up a cult to your lord, along with trying to damn as many souls to the nine hells as you possibly can to raise your status when you die. Nobody like's being a lowly lemure when they go to hell, so better start racking up those souls on your infernal resume.

[KindOfGoodGuy]

That sounds very clever and evil. Thank you.

[KindOfGoodGuy]

I dunno, all that seems chaotic evil, not really something a (presumably) lawful evil cleric of asmodeus would do. I'd imagine you'd be more intent on building up a cult to your lord, along with trying to damn as many souls to the nine hells as you possibly can to raise your status when you die. Nobody like's being a lowly lemure when they go to hell, so better start racking up those souls on your infernal resume.

I agree that it is pretty CE, but I figured that (ironically) before order and tyranny can come about, chaos and suffering should come into being first. Once their lives go into disarray, they are more willing to do whatever they need to if they wish to get their lives back in order. And if worshiping a LE god is what is needed to make them think that everything is fine and dandy, they will most likely do it.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Pillage a town then kidnap the horses and ride away on the women.

Burn an orphanage. Then make crispy undead babies.

Accept a job to save a maiden in distress. Save her, take the loot of the person/thing that was holding her, then return to the person who offered the job while wearing her face and using her severed arm as a back scratcher.

I can do more later but I gotta get back to work.

[Red Fel]

I agree that it is pretty CE, but I figured that (ironically) before order and tyranny can come about, chaos and suffering should come into being first. Once their lives go into disarray, they are more willing to do whatever they need to if they wish to get their lives back in order. And if worshiping a LE god is what is needed to make them think that everything is fine and dandy, they will most likely do it.

As of yet, they have no reason to worship an LE god. Quite the contrary; they're being plagued by Evil, so Good gods are what they need.

Here's what you're doing poorly, that you could be doing better, in a nutshell: You're playing a sucker's game.

I should explain. As others have mentioned, you want to be playing the long game. Particularly as a follower of Asmodeus, you should appreciate subtlety and long-term manipulations that inure to your benefit. Here's the thing: Zombies? Murders? Not subtle. When everyone is up in arms, everyone is up in arms; getting yourself killed is a great way to accomplish absolutely nothing.

Want to know how Evil wins? It's simple. Every scenario should have only two outcomes, as follows: I win. You lose.Got that? Those are the only two. In every scenario, the only outcome your enemies should want is to see you succeed.

Now, how do you get there? Step one, use your wits. You had a great thing going with zombie alligators you controlled. So why release them? Sure, you needed the extra control slots, I get that. Here's the thing - controlling an undying sewer cleaning system? Major brownie points. Nobody has to know you're doing it with zombies, of course - all they have to know is that you've just come up with a perpetual method of keeping the sewers clear. Prepare some Purify Water every so often to prevent the disease from running rampant. For now.

Yes, for now. Because while the people are grateful to you, you have their ear. You have the advantage over them. Be friendly. Genial. Offer your services. Have them invite you into their homes. Be friendly with their wives and children. Tell them all sorts of exciting lies stories of the life of an adventurer. Drop hints here and there that you wouldn't mind settling down for a bit, sharing your knowledge and experience, maybe taking on a student.

You see, if there's one thing that the public loves more than a hero, it's a hero who gives them free stuff. The people eat that stuff up. You providing free hero lessons? Priceless. Why should they be nice to you when they have their own heroes, after all?

So you train the little bastards. Teach them basics. This is a mace, that's a holy symbol, this is incense. Nondescript easy stuff. And you pick out the most promising ones. Start teaching them the important things in life. Order. Order is nice, everyone likes order. Power. Power is good, you can do a lot with power. The importance of allying yourself with people in power. That makes sense, everyone likes powerful friends. Then you introduce them to your friend on the other side - the most powerful being you know.

You have now indoctrinated an entire youth population into the teachings of Asmodeus.

If the people start getting ungrateful or suspicious of you before your work is done, you just Pied Piper 'em. Stop purifying the water, and the putrescence will cause problems. Naturally, since you fixed the sewers before, you can do it again. And you will, and they'll love you again. Suspicions avoided. Get back to work.

You want to keep making zombies and murdering people? You won't be long for the Evil game; you might as well step aside and let a pro do it. You want to play in the Big Leagues? You'd better start thinking twelve steps ahead.

[KindOfGoodGuy]

That have opened my eyes quite a lot and I thank you profusely. You make many good points and I will be sure to elaborate on them. This is the first time I am trying to play an evil character so it is a bit difficult to think in that kind of mindset, but now I have an idea of what I should start doing.:smallsmile:

[PaucaTerrorem]

-snip-

Teach me, sir. Please.

[tadkins]

With your name, I'm not surprised you're having a hard time being Evil. xD

[Red Fel]

That have opened my eyes quite a lot and I thank you profusely. You make many good points and I will be sure to elaborate on them. This is the first time I am trying to play an evil character so it is a bit difficult to think in that kind of mindset, but now I have an idea of what I should start doing.:smallsmile:

The Evil mindset is often tricky to get, at first. Lawful Evil is actually easier than most, because it focuses on order (or honor, or respect, or any number of Lawful interpretations), which is something normal people can understand more readily. So focus on that.

Remember that a Lawful Evil character wants something. Perhaps he wants to create an orderly society, in which he is of course on top. Perhaps he wants people to learn the value of respect and politeness, even if he has to flay them alive until they learn to say please. Perhaps he wants to teach people the value of honor, even if he has to murder their families before they understand it. Whatever it is, he wants to create that kind of order.

The smart Lawful Evil character, however, will never put himself in harm's way to get what he wants. That's what party members are for. Yes, if it comes down to combat, he won't simply run away, particularly if he knows he can win; but if combat isn't mandatory, he probably won't initiate it unless victory is a sure thing.

Don't take unnecessary risks. Don't make enemies you don't need, unless you're prepared to be rid of them, or to use them to make yourself look better. Don't be afraid to be friendly. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, after all. The most dangerous adversary - which is what you should always aspire to be - is the one whose enemies can't bring themselves to kill him. Not because he is invulnerable, but because he is invaluable, loved, and respected.

Think of Havelock Vetinari, the assassin ruler of Ankh-Morpork, who cannot be deposed, simply because the place would fall into chaos in his absence. Think of David Xanatos, who is simply to useful to his enemies to be pushed aside, and to powerful to be ignored. Don't just be Evil; use it.


Teach me, sir. Please.

The class is always in session, the assignments accumulating, the teacher demanding. Everything is a test. Everything will be on the final.

[malonkey1]

The Evil mindset is often tricky to get, at first. Lawful Evil is actually easier than most, because it focuses on order (or honor, or respect, or any number of Lawful interpretations), which is something normal people can understand more readily. So focus on that.

Remember that a Lawful Evil character wants something. Perhaps he wants to create an orderly society, in which he is of course on top. Perhaps he wants people to learn the value of respect and politeness, even if he has to flay them alive until they learn to say please. Perhaps he wants to teach people the value of honor, even if he has to murder their families before they understand it. Whatever it is, he wants to create that kind of order.

The smart Lawful Evil character, however, will never put himself in harm's way to get what he wants. That's what party members are for. Yes, if it comes down to combat, he won't simply run away, particularly if he knows he can win; but if combat isn't mandatory, he probably won't initiate it unless victory is a sure thing.

Don't take unnecessary risks. Don't make enemies you don't need, unless you're prepared to be rid of them, or to use them to make yourself look better. Don't be afraid to be friendly. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, after all. The most dangerous adversary - which is what you should always aspire to be - is the one whose enemies can't bring themselves to kill him. Not because he is invulnerable, but because he is invaluable, loved, and respected.

Think of Havelock Vetinari, the assassin ruler of Ankh-Morpork, who cannot be deposed, simply because the place would fall into chaos in his absence. Think of David Xanatos, who is simply to useful to his enemies to be pushed aside, and to powerful to be ignored. Don't just be Evil; use it.



The class is always in session, the assignments accumulating, the teacher demanding. Everything is a test. Everything will be on the final.

But beware those too dumb to fool. The people who are so psychotically certain you have to die, that they'll kill you no matter what. Player Characters. Especially if you're carrying anything remotely valuable.

[atemu1234]

Buy a sack of puppies for punting?

[Segev]

There is some excellent advice in this thread. I have only a little to add to it. The biggest thing is to just emphasize that evil people are very rarely in it for the evulz. Spreading mayhem and pain and fear? Sure, you can do that, but not every evil person is a sadistic psychopath who gets his jollies from others' screaming in terror. In fact, very few are.

Lawful Evil especially tends to avoid this; even the LE types who ARE sadists tend to seek to control those counterproductive urges. Keep them for private fun times. If that's your vice, fine, but don't let it interfere any more than you'd let a love of alcohol or lovely ladies/gentlemen (or squickier preferences in partners) get in the way. There's a time and place for recreation, and a time and place for work.

And again, you need not delight in things which expressly are perverse or taboo to be evil.

You merely need to have a goal and be willing to use and abuse people to achieve it.

The suggested ways of building a cult to Asmodeus are very fitting for a cleric of the same, and if you were looking for a fitting (I obviously can't call it "good") motivation, then it will work nicely.

Find ways to gift power to others...temporarily. Imbue With Spell Ability is not a bad choice, if clerics get it (I forget if they do). When you are high enough level that you've no fear of acolytes outstripping you, training some lower-level clergy works well, also.

Be helpful, as suggested. Be so helpful that you become the go-to guy to get things people want. Create Food and Water for the poor. When your resources are at about 75% utilization, very gently explain that you can't do everything, not without help. Then start getting people to provide that help, and use less of your resources...while claiming credit for everything.

Use those who are dependent on you to spread your propaganda and do your bidding. Gently. Always gently and kindly. It's a favor for you. Or you're in need, and just can't help them because of this problem you're having.

Make what you ask easy for those performing it. Maybe they have to do things which are hard on others, but those others are not the ones who you're asking to do things.

When your requests cause hardship for others, go to those others and offer relief. Sympathize. Do your best to visibly distance yourself from the cause of the problem, even as you clandestinely encourage its exacerbation. And then help those who are suffering from it. To those already in your employ, you're proving taht you are responsible. You're justifying whatever they're doing on your behalf by making up for any hardship it causes.

But what you're really doing is making this new group ALSO dependent on you.

And once they're dependent on you, you own them. Gently. They'll even thank you for it.

[Kazuel]

I'm pretty sure a few of should be supervised. The answers came way too naturally. That being said, this thread had some great reading within. I may need to bookmark for future use.