Naming the Levels of Magic

[dascarletm]

Happy Thursday!

Anyway, I have thought about it before, and I was wondering if anyone had come up with good in-game terms for spell levels.

I usually vaguely say something along the lines of novice/intermediate/expert/master level spells, lumping multiple levels together. However, has anyone ever come up with terms for all 9 levels?

I'd be interested to see what you all have done.

[Zaydos]

I usually just go "Spells of the Nth Circle" though some levels have more specific names.

1st: Apprentice.
2nd: Student
3rd: Journeyman. (The campaign started at 12th level, but I think when I was naming these I was thinking that Lv 4 and lower wizards needed trainers to teach them more advanced magic and couldn't level up just by trial and error).
5th: Master.
7th: Archmage (in setting if you were capable of casting spells of the 7th Circle you were considered an Archmage and typically feared and respected by everyone).
9th: Grand Master, Ultimate.

[Chronos]

I use "Nth circle" as well. Names for different levels get cumbersome when there are that many of them-- That's why we have numbers in the first place.

I also imagine that the "circle" notation would also apply to spellcasters, so a wizard who can cast fifth-circle spells would be considered a fifth-circle wizard.

The fact that each "circle" of character power represents two or more distinct levels is a lot more subtle, and probably would have been discovered later. Even then, it might lead to some odd conclusions: For instance, a sorcerer who's just attained the fourth circle (i.e., level 8) will cast spells that last longer, reach longer ranges, etc. than a wizard who's just attained fourth circle (level 7). This might paradoxically lead scholars within the game world to conclude that sorcerers are actually more powerful than wizards, rather than less.

[Psyren]

I like "Nth Circle." I'd also add the following descriptors:

0-1st: Apprentice
2nd-3rd: Journeyman
4th-5th: Adept
6th-7th: Master
8th-9th: Ancient/Legendary/Forgotten Magics (almost nonexistent in the game world.)

And Epic magic would be the stuff of rumor, antiquity, theory or divine inspiration.

[Eldan]

I usually go with words along the lines of "secret", e.g. "Arcanum", "Enigma", "Mysterion", or words for enlightenment/knowledge, e.g. "Gnosis", "Illumination", "epiphany", "satori", etc.

I don't think I ever really ordered tem, though.

[sideswipe]

I'm a great believer of people in the world of d&d ranking the spells of the world by power. maybe into 10 ranks, and since you have to reach a level of understanding and expertise to get them then they should be called levels.

so how about the really really simple ones that commoners could learn to be level 0.
then the rest from levels 1-9.

and that's what my NPC's call them.

[dascarletm]

I like the nth circle.

I was actually wondering how to refer to spells while writing a campaign setting. This also gives me some inspiration.

Thanks!

of course more common terms would be useful as well.

[M Placeholder]

Dark Sun, 95% of the population, regarding any arcane magic user

Both types
Levels 1-15 = Witch

Defilers
Levels 15 + = Environment destroying abomination

Preservers
Levels 15-19= lucky to still be alive, The Hunted
Level 20 = damn lucky to have made it this far.

[Deadline]

I remember in Sepulchrave's Wyre story journal, the Alienist PC (Mostin the Metagnostic) referred to the various spell levels as "valences", with Epic Spellcasting ability being referred to as something like "Transcending the highest valences" or somesuch. It's been almost a decade, so my memory is a bit faulty.

[Blackhawk748]

If it ever comes up (which is rare with my players, as the usually dont buy spells or join guilds, they're weird) i call them "Nth Order" So if you are a 1st level caster you are a Mage of the 1st Order, and then it just keeps going up. I got the idea from Legend of the Seeker (or Sword of Truth if you prefer) I just went backwards. So Zed is probably a Wizard of the 6th or 7th Order (kinda hard to tell with him)

[KillianHawkeye]

If it ever comes up (which is rare with my players, as the usually dont buy spells or join guilds, they're weird) i call them "Nth Order" So if you are a 1st level caster you are a Mage of the 1st Order, and then it just keeps going up.

Yeah, I prefer using this terminology as well. I think it's because I believe "circle" used to refer to the schools of magic in the pre-3E days, unless I'm remembering totally wrong. It also makes sense in an "order of magnitude" kind of way.

[Zaydos]

Yeah, I prefer using this terminology as well. I think it's because I believe "circle" used to refer to the schools of magic in the pre-3E days, unless I'm remembering totally wrong.

They were called Schools in 1e and 2e. Not sure about BCEMI.

[Afgncaap5]

I usually call them "tiers", which is boring, I know. However, for potions I call them by greek letters (since the Greek language is a thing in my campaign setting.) So, a fourth level potion (a rare thing which requires a homebrew'd thing called an alchemical secret) would be a Delta Potion.

I really like the idea of calling them "valences." That fits really well.

Realistically, I'd assume that different cultures in a world would call them different things depending on their own magical cultures and traditions. I may steal all of these ideas for different places.

[Arbane]

In a world where magic verifiably and obviously works I'd expect mages and such to never stop bragging about how they'd mastered 'The Third Circle of Arcane Might', and similar.


I remember in Sepulchrave's Wyre story journal, the Alienist PC (Mostin the Metagnostic) referred to the various spell levels as "valences", with Epic Spellcasting ability being referred to as something like "Transcending the highest valences" or somesuch. It's been almost a decade, so my memory is a bit faulty.

Epic spells were "Transvalent", IIRC.

(I highly recommend the Tales of Wyre. it's one of the few epic-level D&D stories I know of that FEELS 'epic'.)

[nyjastul69]

I'm a great believer of people in the world of d&d ranking the spells of the world by power. maybe into 10 ranks, and since you have to reach a level of understanding and expertise to get them then they should be called levels.

so how about the really really simple ones that commoners could learn to be level 0.
then the rest from levels 1-9.

and that's what my NPC's call them.

This is what I've always done. I've never seen a reason to not use the 'level' descriptor to describe what a level is.

[goto124]

I use "Nth circle" as well. Names for different levels get cumbersome when there are that many of them-- That's why we have numbers in the first place.

I've played games that tried to appear more 'realistic' by covering up numbers with words. Everyone just refers to the different levels (of everything- normal level, spell levels, skill levels, basketweaving levels which actually falls under skill levels) by number when talking OoCly, if only because RP was enforced in them and using numbers is considered 'not RP'.

*wanders off to the RP Scrubs thread*


In a world where magic verifiably and obviously works I'd expect mages and such to never stop bragging about how they'd mastered 'The Third Circle of Arcane Might', and similar.

And 'The 9001st Circle of I Did Your Mom Last Night Might'. Who said the braggers were mature?

[ben-zayb]

Interestingly, I'm expecting mechanus or similar planes to describe a 5th level spell as "Subsystem 2 Section 1 Level 5" or "S02-X01-L05" as shorthand. Or maybe something akin to DDC or LC like "M2.01005h"

[goto124]

Sounds like Shadowrun or some other sci-fi-with-magic setting.

[Helluin]

Although I've never got the chance to use it in a game, I do like Sepulchrave's nomenclature of spells. iirc the idea was that spells slots, like electrons, exist in discretely energized states and mages need to acquire certain energy level (i.e. Intelligence score + levels) to gain more valences. It nicely resolves the conundrum of "why dont mages with an Int of 19 get a bonus 5th level slot and mages with Int 20 do"


btw, the story hour has been updated more-or-less recently, after a two-year lacuna...

[dascarletm]

Valences are quite nice. I have always loved saying valences. The word just rolls off the tongue...:smalltongue:

It would also make sense that the layman would lump multiple levels of magic while describing them.

0: Tricks
1-2: Novice level
3-4: Journeyman or similar
5-6: Expert
7-8: Master
9: God

[Prime32]

Happy Thursday!

Anyway, I have thought about it before, and I was wondering if anyone had come up with good in-game terms for spell levels.

I usually vaguely say something along the lines of novice/intermediate/expert/master level spells, lumping multiple levels together. However, has anyone ever come up with terms for all 9 levels?

I'd be interested to see what you all have done.Depending on the tone you're going for... :smalltongue:

0th: Unranked
1st: Rank F
2nd: Rank E
3rd: Rank D
4th: Rank C
5th: Rank B
6th: Rank A
7th: Rank S
8th: Rank SS
9th: Rank SSS

For one thing it gives a sense that lv6 spells, as available to lv20 bards/duskblades/psychic warriors/etc., are the normal upper limit for magic and that the strongest wizards and sorcerers can learn to break this limit.

[malonkey1]

I use one of two systems, sometimes concurrently:

A) split them up like Warlock Invocations (Least, Lesser, Greater, Dark/Master).

B) The Nth order, but in reverse. A Mage of the 10th Order knows only Cantrips, a Mage of the 1st Order knows 9th-level spells. Clerics usually use some sort of vague, priestly rank system that generally works out the same, generally starting with "Neophyte" and ending with "Prophet".

[Chronos]

Why would people call their spell levels "curtains"?

"Valence" sounds nicely technical to us, because we're used to hearing of "valence electrons" in atoms. But an atom only has one valence level, the highest one (those electrons are an outer covering of sorts for the rest, hence the "curtain" analogy). If we were to apply this analogy to spells, then we should have that a wizard's "valence spells" are the highest-level spells that wizard can cast (thus, for instance, Fireball is a valence spell for a 5th-level wizard).

[Afgncaap5]

Why would people call their spell levels "curtains"?

"Valence" sounds nicely technical to us, because we're used to hearing of "valence electrons" in atoms. But an atom only has one valence level, the highest one (those electrons are an outer covering of sorts for the rest, hence the "curtain" analogy). If we were to apply this analogy to spells, then we should have that a wizard's "valence spells" are the highest-level spells that wizard can cast (thus, for instance, Fireball is a valence spell for a 5th-level wizard).

That's a good point. I think it might be a good shorthand for wizards and others to keep track of their relative power levels between themselves that way.

Plus it'd give a nice double meaning to any 10th+ level magic necromancy spells. They could be said to be from "Beyond the Vale." ...sorry, I'll just... I'll just leave now.