Eldritch Archer

[Easy_Lee]

So the Eldritch Knight feature war magic or whatever it is lets the fighter perform a single attack after casting a cantrip. Unlike the similar feature for valor bards, which specifies that it only works with bard spells, the EK version seems open-ended.

Therefore, it should be possible to build an EK 7, picking only spells that don't have saving throws or spell attack rolls, then immediately take two levels of warlock for Eldritch blast, agonizing and repelling. The knight should use a longbow or heavy crossbow so as to avoid the penalty for making ranged attacks in melee. Presumably the player would then take 8 fighter for the feat, followed by 12 warlock, ending with a total of six ASIs.

General combat tactic would be to attain range, maintain range, and fire Eldritch blasts and a single arrow at thine foes (maximum of five targets at 17), perhaps using the extra ASIs to max both CHA and DEX while also picking up sharpshooter. The damage potential is quite impressive for a ranged character with 5th level short rest casting and multiple invocations and pact feature. The single target damage pushes even higher for foes worth hexing, and the character could reserve its other spell slots for things like misty escape, fly, and other ranging tactics.

Am I missing something, or does this work?

[Ralanr]

I may be looking at this wrong, but wouldn't your bow/crossbow require both hands to fire? So wouldn't you need to use at least one free hand to cast a spell first? Is it just cast spell then grip with both hands and fire? Also I think Eldrich blast has a spell attack roll (though it is a cantrip so it might not matter. I don't deal with spells often).

[AvatarVecna]

I may be looking at this wrong, but wouldn't your bow/crossbow require both hands to fire? So wouldn't you need to use at least one free hand to cast a spell first? Is it just cast spell then grip with both hands and fire? Also I think Eldrich blast has a spell attack roll (though it is a cantrip so it might not matter. I don't deal with spells often).

If an Eldritch Knight hasn't taken "War Caster" by 9th level, they deserve whatever fate awaits them.

[BRC]

I may be looking at this wrong, but wouldn't your bow/crossbow require both hands to fire? So wouldn't you need to use at least one free hand to cast a spell first? Is it just cast spell then grip with both hands and fire? Also I think Eldrich blast has a spell attack roll (though it is a cantrip so it might not matter. I don't deal with spells often).
It's a not unreasonable houserule to say that you can have a hand free while wielding a two-handed weapon. You need both hands to attack with the weapon, but you can hold it in one hand and use the other to do stuff.

This is especially true with Bows. Once you have loosed the arrow/before you draw the arrow your hand is free.

So, your hand is free to cast the spell. Then you draw the Arrow and fire it.

Since EB gains power roughly to match the rate at which Fighters gain additional attacks, I think the damage calculation may actually work out to an additional attack?
That said, it requires you to be very, very MAD. You need Dex for your bow attack, CHA for your Eldritch Blast attack, and Int for your other EK spells (Although, as has been mentioned, you can stick to spells without saving throws, so I guess you don't need Int).

[holygroundj]

Yeah, Dex and Cha are all you really need, with con Coming in a distant third. You'll get second wind, action surge (which actually doesn't synergize well with EK since you only get an additional action, not an additional bonus action), etc.

So on a nova round you could:
EB
bow attack
action surge
EB
1d10+1d10+2cha
1d10+dex
1d10+1d10+2cha
add hex because why wouldn't you? 5d6


While normally the problem is that this doesn't come online until level 9, since you're going straight EK until then you're not missing on anything but the level 8 ASI.

[Easy_Lee]

While normally the problem is that this doesn't come online until level 9, since you're going straight EK until then you're not missing on anything but the level 8 ASI.

That's a good point. Plus the bonus ASI at fighter 6 makes up for that by giving you the same stat/feat potential as your level 8 party members by level 6. And the ranged focus, spell slots, and inevitability that this character will take the shield spell as one of his/her EK choices make up for much of the lost survivability from eventually taking more warlock levels than fighter. In addition, during the most swingy levels, 1-6, this character is playing the second-hardest-to-kill class.

Assuming I'm not missing something important, the build seems exceptionally powerful.

[Garimeth]

So the Eldritch Knight feature war magic or whatever it is lets the fighter perform a single attack after casting a cantrip. Unlike the similar feature for valor bards, which specifies that it only works with bard spells, the EK version seems open-ended.

If you got it with Magical Secrets, then it becomes a bard spell for you. That said, I think the EK does it better, though it's certainly still viable as a bard.

[Easy_Lee]

If you got it with Magical Secrets, then it becomes a bard spell for you. That said, I think the EK does it better, though it's certainly still viable as a bard.

Hmm...the reason to use EB over, say, shocking grasp is the CHA to damage from the invocation. Would the warlock invocation apply to a bardic casting of the spell? I'm unsure, though that combo comes online much later if so (level 16).

[Garimeth]

Hmm...the reason to use EB over, say, shocking grasp is the CHA to damage from the invocation. Would the warlock invocation apply to a bardic casting of the spell? I'm unsure, though that combo comes online much later if so (level 16).

Sure it would! The wording of agonizing blast is "when you cast EB". I would say as a bard you would just be using EB for a long time, lol. Again I think you're EK build is better, and probably more fun to level also, just pointing out that if you use Magical Secrets it becomes a class spell, so the concept is workable. You got some good ideas for builds Lee, like your whirlwind one also.

[Easy_Lee]

Sure it would! The wording of agonizing blast is "when you cast EB". I would say as a bard you would just be using EB for a long time, lol. Again I think you're EK build is better, and probably more fun to level also, just pointing out that if you use Magical Secrets it becomes a class spell, so the concept is workable. You got some good ideas for builds Lee, like your whirlwind one also.

Thanks. Yeah I couldn't remember exactly what the invocation said, but by the RAW it should work with magical secrets.

[MeeposFire]

Yeah, Dex and Cha are all you really need, with con Coming in a distant third. You'll get second wind, action surge (which actually doesn't synergize well with EK since you only get an additional action, not an additional bonus action), etc.

So on a nova round you could:
EB
bow attack
action surge
EB
1d10+1d10+2cha
1d10+dex
1d10+1d10+2cha
add hex because why wouldn't you? 5d6


While normally the problem is that this doesn't come online until level 9, since you're going straight EK until then you're not missing on anything but the level 8 ASI.

Actually I think action surge works very well with this build as it allows for you to get your normal number of attacks with a bow+EB+bonus action shot.

Though I do wonder about how much better this is than using a hand crossbow build that takes crossbow expert. Magical weapons and various buff that work with weapons (but not spells) may push that more standard build over the top. Yes you have hex from being a part time warlock but that competes with other buffs like haste eventually so once again I wonder about how much better it really is over the long haul.

For example EB is better per shot than a hand crossbow by on average 2 damage per shot. Number of shots eventually will be equal (though EB does have potential advantages on a per level basis due to the level changes for weapon attacks and EB blasts are not the same). Crossbows will have a +2 bonus to hit over EB and will have access to magic weapons and the like (for instance sharp shooter) to compensate for the damage difference. There are lots of little details that do not make this quite as clear as some of us may like.

[Easy_Lee]

@MeeposFire the real advantage of action surge with this build would be if Hex was up. Eight EBs and one bow shot means 9 attack rolls.

Assuming all attacks hit and one uses a heavy crossbow for the bow attack: 9*(1d10+1d6+5)=126 average DPR, not including crits.

Between this and the 5th level warlock casting for those situations where damage is not the answer, it's a pretty strong combatant. Much of the damage is necrotic of course, which is a somewhat common resistance. But there are other spells the character could concentrate upon.

[Osiris]

. . .Much of the damage is necrotic of course, which is a somewhat common resistance. But there are other spells the character could concentrate upon.

You'll be happy to learn (maybe) that you're wrong. Eldritch Blast is actually Force damage, and the charisma damage (presumably) either keeps the Force type, or is untyped. That's good news, I assume, since nearly nothing resists Force damage.

[Easy_Lee]

You'll be happy to learn (maybe) that you're wrong. Eldritch Blast is actually Force damage, and the charisma damage (presumably) either keeps the Force type, or is untyped. That's good news, I assume, since nearly nothing resists Force damage.

Ah, I was referring to the Hex damage, which is why I specified that there were other spells to concentrate upon. That said, you're completely right. Between force damage, untyped damage, and magic weapon damage, the Eldritch archer can hit pretty much anything hard.

[asorel]

I like this. If I wasn't already planning a panther-riding Halfling as a contingency for one of my characters dieing, I could get behind running this build.

Off-topic, what is the 'whirlwind' build mentioned earlier in the thread?

[Easy_Lee]

I like this. If I wasn't already planning a panther-riding Halfling as a contingency for one of my characters dieing, I could get behind running this build.

Off-topic, what is the 'whirlwind' build mentioned earlier in the thread?

An idea that we hammered out in a different thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400541-Build-Idea-Whirlwind-Attacker), another Ranger build.