Death saves and how should they work?

[Sullivan]

Okay so how do you guy's, and gals, handle death saving throws when a player goes down? Does a heal bring a person up immediately or is that to easy? Should a person need to me stabilized by non magical means before they can receive any benefit from healing spell or potions?

[xyianth]

Are you asking how they are supposed to work, or how they should be changed to work?

Personally, I find that they work just fine as is. Below 0 you start making death saves. 3 successes and you stabilize, 3 failures and you die, on a 20 you heal to 1hp. Any source of healing stabilizes and begins healing from 0hp. While down, you can't drink a potion unassisted. You can stabilize another creature by succeeding on a medicine check, using a healing kit, using the spare the dying cantrip, or by using any ability that heals a creature.(lay on hands, healing word, etc...)

I find that these rules make getting knocked below 0hp in a fight a dangerous situation that doesn't result in a player basically sitting out the encounter.

[Sullivan]

That's how we play death saving throws and I'm wondering if it's to easy on a character that goes down.

[MadGrady]

I don't think it's too hard. a minimum of three rounds out (unassisted) is a long time in a combat, and depending who goes down it can really make a difference in the fight.

One of my own characters died due to 1 failed roll followed by rolling a 1 on the death saves. So I was dead dead. A straight 10 on the die, no modifiers isn't always as easy as it sounds - having to do that 3 times before you roll below 10 3x is pretty tough imo.

[Myzz]

yeah what Xyaianth said...

going down is pretty rough without someone to toss spare the dying on you. Healing word seems kind of cheesy, but characters can die pretty fast.

In HoTDQ, my Assassin/Wiz had been dropped 2 times before our TPK. DM retconned me back to life after the first time, he only meant for his baddies to give me a good ole fashioned beat down... first roll a fail... thats one, second roll a 1 = Dead.

Second time cleric was on top of it with spare the dying... 5th level wizard spell on a level 4 character doesnt work out too well.

At TPK, 8 CR assassin on a level 4 results in insta-death when your using 7d6 poisons...

Even the yo yo heal death affect isnt that bad in light of that. Really only thing your going to do after getting yo-yo'd up is likely drink a health pot. And if your cleric is casting heal spells to yo-yo you then he's not being that effective anywhere else so, its a decent trade off I spose.

There is another thread where they chat about putting in exhaustion effects each time your brought back from 0 hp... or making you stunned for the first round or... several other things. I highly discourage that. You can die, 2 turns after dropping, even without anything hitting you. Add in a couple, hit em while they are down tactics and you can kill someone the same round they went down. Which is what I would do if you want to stop the yo yo effect. In paly for us though the yo yo effect has not yet occured except for the one time the cleric dropped and then rolled a 20... 1 HP yay! He promplty drank a health potion...

[Ralanr]

That's how we play death saving throws and I'm wondering if it's to easy on a character that goes down.

I think that depends on the party comp, the players who go down, and luck. As far as I know, you don't add any modifiers to the death saving throw (but good is 10 up, so it is 50/50). Now if the only guy with proficiency in wisdom or had the healer kit went down and that person was considered the dedicated healer (let's say life cleric), then it's like "Oh ****! Healer down!" which can send people into more panic than if the rogue is down (there should be panic for anyone going down though). This makes me think that when someone aside from the healer goes down, the group just needs to defend them for about one round since the healer can fix it no prob. Healer goes down? Then they don't have the most clear idea of how long it will take and how much they'll have to sacrifice (time, position, damage) to get them back up.

That's probably not the best example, but it's what I can come up with.

Can enemies quicken or worsen your death saves by attacking you on the ground? You're already at zero HP and I'm not sure the negative HP applies here.

[xyianth]

Can enemies quicken or worsen your death saves by attacking you on the ground? You're already at zero HP and I'm not sure the negative HP applies here.

Yes, each time you take damage while down it counts as 1 failed save. Therefore, 2-3 hits after going down can kill you.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Yes, each time you take damage while down it counts as 1 failed save. Therefore, 2-3 hits after going down can kill you.

Plus Crits count for 2 failures, and melee attacks on a prone, unconscious creature are done with advantage and hits are automatically crits. If enemies try to take out a downed player, they aren't lasting long at all.

[Sullivan]

one of the reasons I posted this is that the group I Dm, it's bigger with 7 ppl, were having an encounter where pc were dropping left and right. Everyone was very nonchalant about it and I would see situation where are sorcerer would try and square up with a shield guardian and obviously go down immediately, get healed up and do it again. it might just because out group is bigger there is always a person there to help them so it doesn't seem as bad as it could be. I might also just be an evil evil Dm

[RedMage125]

Plus Crits count for 2 failures, and melee attacks on a prone, unconscious creature are done with advantage and hits are automatically crits. If enemies try to take out a downed player, they aren't lasting long at all.

On that note, a DM should rarely, if ever, target a downed player with attacks. Not without good reason. Personally, the only occasion I have ever done so is with gricks. They explicitly target downed creatures, grabbing them and dragging them off.

I suppose if an enemy dropped an AoE where it was most advantageous to hit the standing characters and happened to include the downed character in the blast, I would do that as well, particularly with intelligent enemies (like a hobgoblin warcaster, for example).

At any rate, to the OP:
Being at 0 hit points is already dangerous. Especially if one were to adopt the 4e mentality that it takes a short rest to "reset" the Death Saving Throw Counter. So a PC drops to 0, fails one DST, gets healing, and 2 rounds later gets knocked back to 0, he'd only have 2 left before death. But given that any damage in melee (an auto-crit) or rolling a 1 means 2 failures, I think that's a little TOO harsh for this edition.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

On that note, a DM should rarely, if ever, target a downed player with attacks. Not without good reason. Personally, the only occasion I have ever done so is with gricks. They explicitly target downed creatures, grabbing them and dragging them off.

Agreed. In my short career as a DM I've only attacked a downed player once: I had assigned all my attacks with a group of Ghouls before making the rolls, and the big Fighter in the front got paralyzed, then critted to all hell, then hit once when he was down. He failed his last save and died, but fortunately was revivified right after.

[Naanomi]

I think that depends on the party comp, the players who go down, and luck. As far as I know, you don't add any modifiers to the death saving throw (but good is 10 up, so it is 50/50).
Universal save bonuses help... Being a monk, a paladin standing near you, items of protection, a few other spells and abilities as well

[Sullivan]

I like the idea that the death tick are accumulative and resting takes off one at a time. The games I run are way on the High Fantasy side of thing, so when a character dies I give them some option. you can come back, but you owe a favor to the devil or something. Maybe if there a paladin they'll have to go on some hair brain quest to repay the favor to there god. As for attacking downed pc's I would agree. It seems like a cheap shot to kick a warlock when he's down.

[Mr.Moron]

We just run them as the book says. With the exception that me annoucing that player should make their death saving throw must be done in a over the top, growly, evil voice.

"Deeaaaaaath Saving Throw!"