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View Full Version : Player Help 3.5 Gestalt Unarmed Lockdown Build



sage20500
2015-02-27, 04:37 AM
So i'm running a gestalt game with a group of friends, one of them is running a Warforged Wildshaping Ranger/Druid, another is running a melee Rogue/Archivist, and the last is running an Elf Arcane Archer(Literally is a wizard/fighter that will be going arcane archer as soon as he can).

For the most part my character seems to have become the official tank for the party since I have an above average defenses, and i come with built in DR. The issue is that I'm trying to figure out how to become better at being a lockdown character without trading out my main character concept of playing a character that just punches things with her fists. Originally when I came up with this character I was more focused on doing fear based shenanigans, but at the DM had me change my character for having 28 AC at level 4, I dropped all ideas for that and instead tried to work out different combos to work off of combat reflexes.

So big things for rules, all books and official first party content is open, 3rd party and anything Pathfinder is banned. The dm is allowing players to gain a feat every even level, and when every 4th level we're allowed to add a +1 to two different stats. My character is an Unseelie Fey (Winter Aspect) Magic Blooded Silverbrow human, my alignment is Chaotic Neutral, and at level 4 my stats are currently 13 Str, 21 Dex, 12 Con, 18 Int, 12 Wis, and 23 Cha. I am allowed access to one homebrew item, and that's being allowed to replace the tiger claw discipline from Tome of Battle with The Demented One's Dancing Leaf discipline. Currently on one side of my build I have 4 levels in Unarmed Swordsage, while the other side is Hit and Run Commander Fighter 1, Cleric of Time and Space 1, Battledancer 1, and Martial Chaotic Monk 1. The weapon I'm currently sticking with is a feycraft ward cestus.

For feats I currently have Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Backstab, Karmic Strike, and Stand Still. Once I hit level 8 I'm planning on retraining one of my level 1 feats into Adaptive Style and then Retaking that feat at level 8 so I can start taking 2 levels of Master of the Nine. Feature wise I traded out Chaotic Monk's Flailing Blows for Decisive Strike, and we're using the rules variant for weapon proficiency that allows me to have access to 4 weapons groups so that I can wield a Ward Cestus without having to spend a feat for it, and for Maneuvers I'm focusing on counters and some boost, and mainly using strikes from Shadow Hand and Stone Dragon disciplines since I'm effectively allowed to add my charisma to any of my strike's saving throws as a morale bonus.

From here, at level 5 I was planning on taking a level in Crusader to get access to Steely Resolve and to hopefully by 6 have some way of gaining the thicket of blades stance, and after that really I just want to be able to improve my ability to just stand next to groups of people and not allow them to do anything without getting hit.

My original build had me taking on the non swordsage side 5 levels of Dragon Devotee (2 at level 6 and 7, another 1 at level 11, and then the last 2 at levels 14 and 15), 3 levels of Human paragon (1 at level 10, and then the last 2 at 12 and 13 so I can gain access to Draconic Aura and Double Draconic Aura at the same time,) and then on the swordsage side going SwordSage 1-7, Master of the Nine 8-9, and then SwordSage 10-17, then finally Master of the Nine 18-20. Now I'm just constantly wondering how useful Dragon Devotee really will be for me with the new build being aimed at trying to make use out of the outrageous amounts of AoO's I can make, so I'm wondering what some suggestions might be both base and prestige class wise to make this new direction be more fun.

Potential Feats I'm wanting to pick up, Leadership (For a cohort Artificer), Draconic Aura and Double Draconic Aura, Rolibar's Gambit, Mage-Slayer, Snap Kick, Elusive Dance, Riposte, Hold the Line, Supernatural Instincts, and possibly Weapon Focus (Ward Cestus) and Single Blade Style.

So yeah, any thoughts are welcome, would love to hear some ideas :).

sage20500
2015-02-27, 04:48 AM
Oh, I also realized that since I get an pretty appreciable number of turn undead attempts since I have a pretty amazing charisma mod, that at some point I also might want to snap divine might as a feat as well so that I can combine that with strikes etc.

ExLibrisMortis
2015-02-27, 07:05 AM
Your biggest issue doesn't appear to be feats or levels, but reach. Reach is important in lockdown builds, and you got almost none. You can go for some spellcasting or manifesting to pick up Enlarge Person or Expansion to get your reach up. It will also increase your unarmed damage, which is nice.

For lockdown & damage, a two-level barbarian dip for spirit lion totem and wolf totem is nice. Pounce and Improved Trip.

Fouredged Sword
2015-02-27, 11:34 AM
Someone say to me "Tanky lockdown build", and I think Psion/crystal master // something else with expanded knowledge for expansion.

Mr.Kraken
2015-02-27, 02:45 PM
Your biggest issue doesn't appear to be feats or levels, but reach. Reach is important in lockdown builds, and you got almost none.

With that in mind, you might want to take a look at the Rope Dart from Dragon #319. Awesome weapon, with 15ft reach and can attack adjacent squares. It can also be used as a monk weapon for flurrying and other things as well.

sage20500
2015-02-27, 05:16 PM
With that in mind, you might want to take a look at the Rope Dart from Dragon #319. Awesome weapon, with 15ft reach and can attack adjacent squares. It can also be used as a monk weapon for flurrying and other things as well.

For reach I'm looking at taking up abberant blood and inhuman reach as 2 possible feats, Aside for the extra 5ft of reach the dart gives it's actually not going to help me all that much. I traded flailing blows for the Decisive Strike ACF, which lets me have the ability to deal double damage with only my unarmed attacks with my AoO's, I do however have access to a boost which lets me extend my reach by 5ft, and the Archivist might also be giving me the bloodwind spell as well every now and then.

sage20500
2015-02-27, 05:17 PM
Someone say to me "Tanky lockdown build", and I think Psion/crystal master // something else with expanded knowledge for expansion.

My wis mod is only 12, so I'm not sure whether any manifester classes are going to work out very well for me....

emeraldstreak
2015-02-27, 05:33 PM
Seems you're aware of most stuff; nonetheless here's this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17704071&postcount=11)


Obviously you can improve other aspects being unarmed, ie damage but the DM will probably make you switch characters again.

sage20500
2015-02-27, 06:16 PM
Seems you're aware of most stuff; nonetheless here's this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17704071&postcount=11)


Obviously you can improve other aspects being unarmed, ie damage but the DM will probably make you switch characters again.

He apparently has no issues with me doing damage or with me being able to get an insane amount of AoO's, it was just the fact that I was able to add my cha, int, wis, and dex to my AC that bugged him. The original character concept had me taking Kung Fu Genius as a feat, so that's what I had to drop X)

Eloel
2015-02-27, 06:27 PM
My wis mod is only 12, so I'm not sure whether any manifester classes are going to work out very well for me....

A wis mod of 12 is enough, and is actually very high for any wisdom-based caster. With all resources going towards it (including racial +2 from somewhere) but no "hacky" material, you can at most hit 13 by level 20.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-02-27, 06:34 PM
If your Wis is 34-35 and you have a high Charisma I am wondering what your stats look like.

Eloel
2015-02-27, 06:34 PM
If your Wis is 24-25 and you have a high Charisma I am wondering what your stats look like.

34-35, not 24-25.

Edit: My wisdom is not that high, I don't have a bonus to Perception checks - ninja'd.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-02-27, 06:35 PM
Fixed it about 3 seconds before you posted actually. Nice try though.