3.5 Glitterdust as a Damaging Spell

[Amphetryon]

We all know that Glitterdust is a pretty amazing spell for its level in 3.5, but I'd like to make it even more useful. What ways does the hive mind know of to add a damage-dealing component to Glitterdust? I'm all but certain it's been discussed before, but I couldn't dredge up the relevant discussions.

[Mr Adventurer]

The early components of the Locate City Bomb?

[Darrin]

The early components of the Locate City Bomb?

Yep. Snowcasting (Frostburn) to add [cold], Flash Frost Spell (PHBII) to add 2 cold damage.

Now add Energy Substitution (Complete Arcane) to switch the [cold] damage to [electricity] damage, then Born of Three Thunders (same book) to turn half of that into [sonic]. Add Heighten Spell and five levels of Lyric Thaumaturge for Sonic Might, and you should have a glitterdust that does 1d6 sonic damage per spell level.

[Blackhawk748]

Yep. Snowcasting (Frostburn) to add [cold], Flash Frost Spell (PHBII) to add 2 cold damage.

Now add Energy Substitution (Complete Arcane) to switch the [cold] damage to [electricity] damage, then Born of Three Thunders (same book) to turn half of that into [sonic]. Add Heighten Spell and five levels of Lyric Thaumaturge for Sonic Might, and you should have a glitterdust that does 1d6 sonic damage per spell level.

Thats a lot of feats and a lot of work, but now Glitterdust is the only spell youll ever need :smallbiggrin:

[Darrin]

Thats a lot of feats and a lot of work, but now Glitterdust is the only spell youll ever need :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, it's slightly more impressive with flame dagger or scimitar of sand and Persistent Spell.

[defiantdan]

Glitterdust would be more effective if it also negated the concealment from invisibility like fairie fire. Damage is not really an effective way to deal with an encounter. Sculpting Glitterdust makes it even better. Heighten so the save DC for being blinded is higher. As a custom spell it would be pretty cool if it blinded and entangled targets, with fairie fire effect.

[Gwachitallemall]

Faerie Fire as a stun and knock prone spell?

[Rijan_Sai]

Glitterdust would be more effective if it also negated the concealment from invisibility like fairie fire. Damage is not really an effective way to deal with an encounter. Sculpting Glitterdust makes it even better. Heighten so the save DC for being blinded is higher. As a custom spell it would be pretty cool if it blinded and entangled targets, with fairie fire effect.


A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell

Hmm...I've never seen a reading of that spell that didn't let you see someone/thing that was sparkling like a Twilight vampire abomination in the sun...

[Seerow]

Yep. Snowcasting (Frostburn) to add [cold], Flash Frost Spell (PHBII) to add 2 cold damage.

Now add Energy Substitution (Complete Arcane) to switch the [cold] damage to [electricity] damage, then Born of Three Thunders (same book) to turn half of that into [sonic]. Add Heighten Spell and five levels of Lyric Thaumaturge for Sonic Might, and you should have a glitterdust that does 1d6 sonic damage per spell level.

Huh. If you can find a way to make Flash Frost spell +0, you can use this to straight up add 1d6/spell level+2 damage to literally any spell you ever cast.

Also don't forget BotTT stuns and knocks prone any creature that takes damage from one of your Sonic/Lightning spells.


Edit: Just for fun, since BotTT makes the target do a reflex save to avoid being knocked prone, that reflex save can be used to trigger explosive spell. So anyone caught inside your super-glitterdust gets blown out of the area for more damage.


Oh also Flash Frost Spell provides a slick area for one round where creatures have to make balance checks to move through it. So your glitterdust also acts as a mini-grease. Don't forget about that.

Edit 2: The real trick is going to be getting immunity to daze so you don't spend every other round doing nothing after dropping your glitterdust.

[defiantdan]

Hmm...I've never seen a reading of that spell that didn't let you see someone/thing that was sparkling like a Twilight vampire abomination in the sun...

The spell doesn't actually negate the total concealment of invisibility. it just lets you target the correct square and gives a negative modifier to hide checks. Fairie fire Specifically calls out negating total concealment.

edit: sort of like using flour on an invisible opponent. they still get their 50% miss chance but at least now you know which square to target.

[Gwachitallemall]

Huh. If you can find a way to make Flash Frost spell +0, you can use this to straight up add 1d6/spell level+2 damage to literally any spell you ever cast.

Also don't forget BotTT stuns and knocks prone any creature that takes damage from one of your Sonic/Lightning spells.


Edit: Just for fun, since BotTT makes the target do a reflex save to avoid being knocked prone, that reflex save can be used to trigger explosive spell. So anyone caught inside your super-glitterdust gets blown out of the area for more damage.


Oh also Flash Frost Spell provides a slick area for one round where creatures have to make balance checks to move through it. So your glitterdust also acts as a mini-grease. Don't forget about that.

Edit 2: The real trick is going to be getting immunity to daze so you don't spend every other round doing nothing after dropping your glitterdust.

Mark of the Dauntless, Dragonmarked? Gives you immunity to stun/daze.

[Kriton]

The spell doesn't actually negate the total concealment of invisibility. it just lets you target the correct square and gives a negative modifier to hide checks. Fairie fire Specifically calls out negating total concealment.

Why do you assert this? Is there a rule saying it does so, cause the way I read the spell, I understand that it makes the invisible, visible.

[Deophaun]

Why do you assert this? Is there a rule saying it does so, cause the way I read the spell, I understand that it makes the invisible, visible.
The closest general mechanic there is in the game for just visibly outlining an object is the following:

One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour fell off or blew away).
Meanwhile, spells like faerie fire explicitly state that they remove concealment, while glitterdust does not.

Later, dungeonscape expands on the effects of flour, which includes reducing the miss chance from 50% to 20%, which is probably appropriate for the spell.

[Mr Adventurer]

The suggestion is that a coating of glittering dust so dense that it blinds you is of equivalent visibility to a scattering of flour?

[Deophaun]

The suggestion is that a coating of glittering dust so dense that it blinds you is of equivalent visibility to a scattering of flour?
Where is the density of the dust mentioned in the spell?

[Darrin]

Why do you assert this? Is there a rule saying it does so, cause the way I read the spell, I understand that it makes the invisible, visible.

Glitterdust says it's capable of "visibly outlining invisible things" but it does not negate concealment. This allows you to pinpoint the square that an invisible creature is occupying, but it still has concealment. It's not stated in the spell effect if the creature still has total concealment (50%) or more typical "vanilla" concealment (20%).

Most likely, this is an oversight by the designers, who should have reworded the spell effect so that the mechanics work more like faerie fire, which does both pinpoint creatures and negate concealment (unless the creature is using a higher-level [darkness] spell).

Another odd wrinkle... the invisibility spell doesn't actually grant any concealment as part of the spell effect. It just makes you visually undetectable. The rules for what happens when you're visually undetectable are in the Combat chapter, the glossary, and the special ability section of the Monster Manual, but not in the spell description. Unfortunately, there's nothing in the rules about concealment or invisibility about how much concealment a "visible outline" confers.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Snowcasting (with Eschew Materials or (Wand of) Summon Component if necessary) and Flash Frost Spell (+1 metamagic) are fairly standard for adding an energy subtype and damaging effect to any spell that affects an area.

Heighten Spell increases the spell's level, and thus increases the Flash Frost damage and save DCs.

Born of the Three Thunders says the spell concludes with its effect, which many will interpret to mean that it only happens when the spell's duration ends, rather than when it's cast or whenever it deals damage. If this is the case, then don't bother using it with noninstantaneous spells.

Fell Drain (+2), Fell Frighten (+2), and Fell Weaken (+1) can be used to inflict a debuff effect on any (living) creature damaged by the spell. Note that Fell Drain imposes a -1 penalty to saves, and Fell Frighten a -2 penalty to saves. Fell Weaken would be more useful if your base spell was Web or Kelpstrand or similar.

Explosive Spell (+2) if using a spell that requires a Reflex save (or Born of the Three Thunders) will push creatures failing that save out of the spell's area, potentially dealing additional damage to them.

Arcane Thesis can be used to reduce the metamagic cost, especially when using multiple metamagic feats, depending on how your DM rules it and if they believe the FAQ is actual rules, and if you're not using Heighten Spell. It also increases your caster level slightly.

Widen Spell (+3) doubles the spell's area, and doesn't come on a metamagic rod for some reason, though it would most likely be priced identically to a Rod of Maximize since that's also a +3 metamagic cost.


A better use of all this would be a Detect Magic with Permanency, so you would just have to concentrate to generate the area of effect which inflicts all of the attached effects, and even do so as a swift action 1/encounter with the Swift Concentration skill trick. You could even use Psychic Reformation or similar to repick all the feats spent to different ones without affecting the spell's attached effects.

[Baroknik]

Snowcasting (with Eschew Materials or (Wand of) Summon Component if necessary) and Flash Frost Spell (+1 metamagic) are fairly standard for adding an energy subtype and damaging effect to any spell that affects an area.

Heighten Spell increases the spell's level, and thus increases the Flash Frost damage and save DCs.

Born of the Three Thunders says the spell concludes with its effect, which many will interpret to mean that it only happens when the spell's duration ends, rather than when it's cast or whenever it deals damage. If this is the case, then don't bother using it with noninstantaneous spells.

Fell Drain (+2), Fell Frighten (+2), and Fell Weaken (+1) can be used to inflict a debuff effect on any (living) creature damaged by the spell. Note that Fell Drain imposes a -1 penalty to saves, and Fell Frighten a -2 penalty to saves. Fell Weaken would be more useful if your base spell was Web or Kelpstrand or similar.

Explosive Spell (+2) if using a spell that requires a Reflex save (or Born of the Three Thunders) will push creatures failing that save out of the spell's area, potentially dealing additional damage to them.

Arcane Thesis can be used to reduce the metamagic cost, especially when using multiple metamagic feats, depending on how your DM rules it and if they believe the FAQ is actual rules, and if you're not using Heighten Spell. It also increases your caster level slightly.

Widen Spell (+3) doubles the spell's area, and doesn't come on a metamagic rod for some reason, though it would most likely be priced identically to a Rod of Maximize since that's also a +3 metamagic cost.


A better use of all this would be a Detect Magic with Permanency, so you would just have to concentrate to generate the area of effect which inflicts all of the attached effects, and even do so as a swift action 1/encounter with the Swift Concentration skill trick. You could even use Psychic Reformation or similar to repick all the feats spent to different ones without affecting the spell's attached effects.

Anyway to get all that on a Spirit Shaman? Look and boom without spending an action!

[Flickerdart]

Edit: Just for fun, since BotTT makes the target do a reflex save to avoid being knocked prone, that reflex save can be used to trigger explosive spell. So anyone caught inside your super-glitterdust gets blown out of the area for more damage.
That's pretty great - a combo flash+concussion grenade leaves your enemies blinded, prone, flung aside, and on fire (well, that's how you can fluff the glitter, anyway).

[Chronos]

I think that being covered with glitter is more "flaming" than "on fire".

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Arcane Thesis can be used to reduce the metamagic cost, especially when using multiple metamagic feats, depending on how your DM rules it and if they believe the FAQ is actual rules, and if you're not using Heighten Spell. It also increases your caster level slightly.

Solid advice as always, Biffoniacus_Furious, but the print date on the errata for PHB2 is after the "print" date for that FAQ. Also, the errata is a completely different interpretion than the FAQ's. The errata did at least prevent getting a spell below its original listed level, though.