Being forced to roll for stats and ethical responses

[TrexPushups]

So I have a character concept I really eager to play as and the default point but gets me all the stats I want for the character (I want moderate stats and only one dump stat) but I am being told to roll for stats.

If I get stats that I don't feel could be tied to the char I want to play how evil and wrong is it to just make low hp and ac characters and sending them to die until I get a stat array that is close enough for me to feel comfortable.

[calebrus]

You don't need mega-stats in 5e to be functional. Point buy should theoretically be good enough for almost anything you want to do.
What exactly is the concept that requires such amazing stats?

edit:
My bad, you *want* to use point buy.
Just explain to him that point buy gives you the equivalent of average rolls across the board.
Go ahead and roll, and if you don't like it ask him if you can use standard array instead.

[Galen]

I suggest you calmly speak with the DM about the merits of the character you want to play, and how it's not any stronger than what's expected to come out in a roll. If he still insists, I suggest you either submit and play which ever character comes out, or walk away - whichever seems right.

Disrupting other people's game with a series of self-inflicted deaths is low. Not to mention useless, as you'd be probably booted out once they realize you're doing it on purpose.

[INDYSTAR188]

So I have a character concept I really eager to play as and the default point but gets me all the stats I want for the character (I want moderate stats and only one dump stat) but I am being told to roll for stats.

If I get stats that I don't feel could be tied to the char I want to play how evil and wrong is it to just make low hp and ac characters and sending them to die until I get a stat array that is close enough for me to feel comfortable.

I suggest telling your DM that you have a specific build you really want to play and ask them if they'll work with you to make it happen. You could roll like he wants and if it's way off then you could ask for a point-buy (you might come out with better stats rolling though).

Edit - double ninja'd!

[TrexPushups]

Mostly I plan to just eat my gruel and like it.

My stats if I am allowed to point buy would be

15, 13, 13, 8, 11, 13 before using standard human racial mods.

I want to run a barbarian with the noble background and I just want him to be competent in a fight and also decent in social situations.

I plan on taking persuade and actually using it.

My nightmare scenario is rolling 2 18s a couple of 12-14s and two 8 or belows. Which would get me a character who was awesome in a fight but unable to handle social situations or vice versa.

[Galen]

Mostly I plan to just eat my gruel and like it.

My stats if I am allowed to point buy would be

15, 13, 13, 8, 11, 13 before using standard human racial mods.

I want to run a barbarian with the noble background and I just want him to be competent in a fight and also decent in social situations.

I plan on taking persuade and actually using it.

My nightmare scenario is rolling 2 18s a couple of 12-14s and two 8 or belows. Which would get me a character who was awesome in a fight but unable to handle social situations or vice versa.Explain that to the DM. If he's reasonable, he will accept it. If he's not reasonable, walk away, you dodged a bullet!

[Mr.Moron]

Follow the character generation guidelines for the game. Being willing to follow at least the basic entry requirements is a show of good faith. You could maybe petition for the game to be switched out over to point buy but going
"I wanna do what I wanna do, and I don't care about what anyone else is doing or what the GM is comfortable with", and then suicide over and over till you get the numbers you want... it's bad form to say the least.

[heavyfuel]

If I get stats that I don't feel could be tied to the char I want to play how evil and wrong is it to just make low hp and ac characters and sending them to die until I get a stat array that is close enough for me to feel comfortable.

Even if your DM doesn't penalize you for dying (which he should), that's still a terrible plan because you're purposefully disrupting his campaign out of spite. If you don't feel comfortable with rolled stats, converse with him, if he's adamant on rolled stats, than follow the true first rule of any game: No one is obligated to play.

[Thrudd]

Ask the DM if they will consider using point buy instead. If they won't, then either play the game they are offering or don't play.

In a game where you roll for stats, you should wait to see what you roll before you decide what kind of character to make. Save your barbarian concept for another game, if you don't roll good stats for it this time.

[mephnick]

Man, I usually have to beg my players to use point-buy. I hate rolling stats, but they like it so I let them do it.

If you explain why you want to use point-buy and he doesn't let you, he's probably going to fiat all kinds of stupid stuff. But if you have no other options to play, give it a shot anyway. You can always walk away when he keeps making stupid rulings.

[Thrudd]

Man, I usually have to beg my players to use point-buy. I hate rolling stats, but they like it so I let them do it.

If you explain why you want to use point-buy and he doesn't let you, he's probably going to fiat all kinds of stupid stuff. But if you have no other options to play, give it a shot anyway. You can always walk away when he keeps making stupid rulings.

Rolling stats isn't a "stupid ruling". It's a default game option and a valid choice for a certain type of game. If someone doesn't want to play that kind of game, that's on them, but it is definitely the DM's right (and a good idea) to ask his players to all use the same creation method.

[mephnick]

I suppose it depends on if the DM simply decided people would roll for stats or if it was discussed beforehand.

Even then, I've mixed creation methods for campaigns and it's had zero effect on the game. It's an arbitrary fiat that people have tricked themselves into thinking it matters. If all the players have decided they all want to roll and they would have problems with someone point-buying, then yes, he should just do it and save that character for another campaign.

[Laurefindel]

As a DM, I like to have each player roll one array of stat, plus one from the DM.

All arrays are pooled together. Every character created in that campaign must use one of those arrays.

Players get the thrill to roll stats.

No shenanigans about rolling endlessly until you get at least three 18s.

There's usually a decent selection of arrays to chose from, typically one with a very high score and one with multiple mid-high scores for MAD characters.

Players all get the same choices - no whining and no major unbalance between characters

You can't kill your PC just to roll another series of stats until you're happy with it.

I see this as he best of both world.

[Galen]

As a DM, I like to have each player roll one array of stat, plus one from the DM.

All arrays are pooled together. Every character created in that campaign must use one of those arrays.

Players get the thrill to roll stats.

No shenanigans about rolling endlessly until you get at least three 18s.

There's usually a decent selection of arrays to chose from, typically one with a very high score and one with multiple mid-high scores for MAD characters.

Players all get the same choices - no whining and no major unbalance between characters

You can't kill your PC just to roll another series of stats until you're happy with it.

I see this as he best of both world.
This is a great idea! Must ... steal !!!

[Shining Wrath]

Roll the dice like the DM wants.

If your rolls are horrible, clearly worse than point buy, ask for a fresh roll.

My dice rolling method may be of interest: roll 3d6. You may, if you wish, replace exactly one die with a '4'. Essentially it's 4d6 choose 3 with one die that always reads '4'.

[EvanescentHero]

As a DM, I like to have each player roll one array of stat, plus one from the DM.

All arrays are pooled together. Every character created in that campaign must use one of those arrays.

Players get the thrill to roll stats.

No shenanigans about rolling endlessly until you get at least three 18s.

There's usually a decent selection of arrays to chose from, typically one with a very high score and one with multiple mid-high scores for MAD characters.

Players all get the same choices - no whining and no major unbalance between characters

You can't kill your PC just to roll another series of stats until you're happy with it.

I see this as he best of both world.

This is amazing and I'm stealing it for my next campaign. Thank you.

[Theodoxus]

If the DM insists on rolling, then see if he'll let you buy down stats to raise others (1:1 generally going down, 2:1 going up). This would let you move points from an 18 you don't want into an 8 you don't want...

Outside of that, try to get the DM to use an alternate rolling method that's better for 5th Ed - 1d8+7; 21/23/25 method, etc.

If that doesn't work, just fudge your rolls... unless he's watching you like a hawk, you should be able to 'roll' whatever array you want - If I was your DM, and you said you rolled the array in the OP, then I'd be all 'cool'. I only get suspicious when someone comes to the table with a couple 18s or all 16+ stats...

[TrexPushups]

If the DM insists on rolling, then see if he'll let you buy down stats to raise others (1:1 generally going down, 2:1 going up). This would let you move points from an 18 you don't want into an 8 you don't want...

Outside of that, try to get the DM to use an alternate rolling method that's better for 5th Ed - 1d8+7; 21/23/25 method, etc.

If that doesn't work, just fudge your rolls... unless he's watching you like a hawk, you should be able to 'roll' whatever array you want - If I was your DM, and you said you rolled the array in the OP, then I'd be all 'cool'. I only get suspicious when someone comes to the table with a couple 18s or all 16+ stats...

He wants us to roll together in front of him. He insists on rolling because it is traditional. I know the whole group pretty well and I expect the game to be fun, I just refuse to use up the character concept on stats that can't support it.

I will roll and hope and if I manage to get viable stats then Yay! Otherwise I will probably just go with a totally different concept.

[Maxilian]

He wants us to roll together in front of him. He insists on rolling because it is traditional. I know the whole group pretty well and I expect the game to be fun, I just refuse to use up the character concept on stats that can't support it.

I will roll and hope and if I manage to get viable stats then Yay! Otherwise I will probably just go with a totally different concept.

Have you talked about it with him?, most of the problems in DnD can be solved if people talk about it, i understand how you feel (having in mind that i normally play with a concept in mind already), is frustrating but also have in mind, that stats are not everything, a concept could still work without having the perfect stats

[Garimeth]

He wants us to roll together in front of him. He insists on rolling because it is traditional. I know the whole group pretty well and I expect the game to be fun, I just refuse to use up the character concept on stats that can't support it.

I will roll and hope and if I manage to get viable stats then Yay! Otherwise I will probably just go with a totally different concept.

Your desired stats aren't even that unlikely to be rolled, you are kind of hyping up the anxiety here for yourself.

Also, to refer back to your OP, it doesn't speak well of you if you were serious about just creating trash characters to throw at the enemies. If you were joking about that, then disregard this whole portion of my post. If you were serious however then personally I don't think the group would even want to play with you, - this would be an incredibly immature response to something so trivial. Again, though if that was just a joke please disregard, though around here you never know...

[gameogre]

Your desire for a character concept doesn't trump the game or the rule of fun. Heck I have wanted to play a NE character concept based on batman and Drow so long it's silly but it just has never been a good time. Either the party makeup or goals would have made my character choice unfun for someone else in the party.

Just roll your character first THEN see what everyone else has in mind then make a character concept.

Besides stats don't make a concept and I have yet to see a DM yet that if I rolled too good for my concept that would mind me lowering them.


Still point buy stats are the way to go. Everything kept nice and fair for everyone involved.

I play with some all around nice people who well, have GREAT rolls as long as you don't look at them.

[TrexPushups]

Your desire for a character concept doesn't trump the game or the rule of fun. Heck I have wanted to play a NE character concept based on batman and Drow so long it's silly but it just has never been a good time. Either the party makeup or goals would have made my character choice unfun for someone else in the party.

Just roll your character first THEN see what everyone else has in mind then make a character concept.

Besides stats don't make a concept and I have yet to see a DM yet that if I rolled too good for my concept that would mind me lowering them.


Still point buy stats are the way to go. Everything kept nice and fair for everyone involved.

I play with some all around nice people who well, have GREAT rolls as long as you don't look at them.

Good ole schodengier's stat rolls.

Heck if I roll well I might even be able to get a feat of two instead of just buying stats.

[Myzz]

Thex... did you say which method you'll be using? 4d6 drop lowest seems most likely...

From my observation you'll likely get better stats rolling than taking standard array, and probably on par with point buy. It might NOT be ideal... but I think you'll get very serviceable rolls.

IF NOT, then suggest to DM some of the options listed in other rolling stat threads:

1. every player rolls 1 set (6) stats using 4d6 drop lowest, players choose which of those arrays from all the players they will use. (allows everyone at table to be equal, instead of 1 UBER character and 2 that are worse then joe shmo the grocer)

2. 2d6+6, gaurantees a 6 on one of your 3d6

3. 3d6 (drop lowest) +6, same as 4d6 drop lowest, except you gaurantee a 6 on 1 die.

4. 4d4+2

5. 5d4 (for Heroic players)

6. 3d6 (reroll all 1's and 2's - min score is now a 9, increases liklihood of rolling 6's)


As others have said, I wouldn't stress the rolling aspect. If your DM, is gonna make you play a terribly statted character because of random rolls... so be it. Heck, use the same concept with the terrible rolls and view it as a test drive for when he eventually dies... then bring in his BIG Brother (same concept better stats) to exact revenge! That way you can identify any disparities you didnt account for prior to playing the concept!

[TrexPushups]

I assume it will be the standard 4d6 drop lowest. Not actually that worried about it. Thread was mostly me working through frustration at having to risk a bad roll when point buy would guarantee the stats I want.

[gameogre]

I assume it will be the standard 4d6 drop lowest. Not actually that worried about it. Thread was mostly me working through frustration at having to risk a bad roll when point buy would guarantee the stats I want.

I hear you brother. I roll stats historically that WAY beat the averages for rolling that low. I did recently beat that trend with one character however and he turned out to be the best character I ever made. Not just because of the high stats of course but dang it if they didn't help!

[Urpriest]

My advice is to have another concept in mind for if you've got very unbalanced stats, to complement your current concept that relies on balanced stats. That way you can be happy if you get either.

[TrexPushups]

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/519babf9e4b022aa1cdaf4df/t/530e494ee4b00bb61217e953/1393445202208/1A.NAS_ASHMAN_Swordsman_R1+copie.jpg

This is the image and mini that is inspiring me for the character I want to run.

If I end up with stats that don't work out I will see if I can run a tiefling warlock/barbarian with awful mental stats based on this image and mini.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-A7lCo0MK_hU/T5I98kkBA1I/AAAAAAAAACk/_1gsetykp6s/s1600/Rathor.jpg

[Ghost Nappa]

As a DM, I like to have each player roll one array of stat, plus one from the DM.

All arrays are pooled together. Every character created in that campaign must use one of those arrays.

Players get the thrill to roll stats.

No shenanigans about rolling endlessly until you get at least three 18s.

There's usually a decent selection of arrays to chose from, typically one with a very high score and one with multiple mid-high scores for MAD characters.

Players all get the same choices - no whining and no major unbalance between characters

You can't kill your PC just to roll another series of stats until you're happy with it.

I see this as the best of both worlds.

Note to self: Pocket this idea.

If I could give internets, I would. Believe me I would.

[Knaight]

I'd just as the DM here. Speaking as a near permanent GM, there are things I set up in the game because that's pretty core to the game premise*, and things which are set up some way because something has to be chosen, but where I honestly don't care all that much about the specifics. If rolling for stats is in the first category for this DM, roll with it and just use a different concept if you don't get stats that work. If it's in the second, they'll probably be fine if you switch.

*This is after running the core premise by the group.

[hachface]

Statistically, random rolling actually tends to beat point buy. Just roll with it. (ba-dump ching)

[rollingForInit]

Even if your DM doesn't penalize you for dying (which he should), that's still a terrible plan because you're purposefully disrupting his campaign out of spite. If you don't feel comfortable with rolled stats, converse with him, if he's adamant on rolled stats, than follow the true first rule of any game: No one is obligated to play.

I agree that it's spiteful to do that. But then, I'd say a DM who uses random rolls when the players don't want to is pretty deserving of spite.

Any decent DM would work things out if the asks, though. In then end, D&D is about having fun, and some people prefer certain types of builds for fun. Rolling randomly doesn't always work towards that. A DM shouldn't crush the idea a player has just because the DM arbitrarily just wants to do things a certain way.

If the player has to result to suiciding to not play a boring build, then both the player and the DM have been at fault, imo.

[Galen]

I agree that it's spiteful to do that. But then, I'd say a DM who uses random rolls when the players don't want to is pretty deserving of spite.I may have not fully comprehended the OP, but it seems to me only he has a problem with rolling, and no one else is complaining. Where did you see that there are players [plural] opposing the DM?

[Giddonihah]

I agree that it's spiteful to do that. But then, I'd say a DM who uses random rolls when the players don't want to is pretty deserving of spite.

Any decent DM would work things out if the asks, though. In then end, D&D is about having fun, and some people prefer certain types of builds for fun. Rolling randomly doesn't always work towards that. A DM shouldn't crush the idea a player has just because the DM arbitrarily just wants to do things a certain way.

If the player has to result to suiciding to not play a boring build, then both the player and the DM have been at fault, imo.

Imo if a player joined my game, they accept my 'arbitrary' conditions of character creation. A player that suicides in rebellion is a player that is kicked out of the group because they knew the rules set ahead of time and decided to join anyways.

[Knaight]

Imo if a player joined my game, they accept my 'arbitrary' conditions of character creation. A player that suicides in rebellion is a player that is kicked out of the group because they knew the rules set ahead of time and decided to join anyways.

On the one hand yes, on the other hand it depends on how much you care. I've had games where the conditions were pretty tight and characters had to fit in them, and I've had GMed which had exchanges like "Can I play a dragon?" "Sure, what the heck". Deliberately killing a character in rebellion is all sorts of obnoxious, but there's a matter of setting up player leeway, particularly in character creation (the character is the one thing that players generally have real control over) so that it's maximized within the constraints of the game.

[rollingForInit]

Imo if a player joined my game, they accept my 'arbitrary' conditions of character creation. A player that suicides in rebellion is a player that is kicked out of the group because they knew the rules set ahead of time and decided to join anyways.

You make it sound as if being invited to a game of D&D is some sort of privilege a person extends less important humans, and woe anyone who doesn't agree with it. I don't know how other people do it, but when I've role-played (whether or not it's D&D) it usually goes, "hey guys, should we make a group to rp? I could be the DM if you want to, and maybe later we can rotate it".

If it's a game at a convention or if you're invited to play with somebody famous or for a special event (e.g. TableTop, various streams, and so on), then sure, you adapt. But if it's a group of friends playing together, the "it's my way or the highway" just reeks of a bad DM attitude. Any decent DM would be able to work with the players so they can have the characters they want within the constraints of the campaign. "Sorry, you can't play the thing you've always wanted to play because you rolled the wrong stats" is just a crappy attitude if that's the only thing standing in the way of the player getting a character they've really wanted to try out that's a perfectly normal character in all regards.

I don't think that intentionally suiciding is the way to go, but if the player feels it's the only way, then the DM has failed. The best course to take as a player, though, should be to go with it and hope to convince the DM for when the character (in a natural way) dies. Or ask to switch to a new character a bit later on, if the character that was rolled is really boring.

[calebrus]

"Sorry, you can't play the thing you've always wanted to play because you rolled the wrong stats" is just a crappy attitude if that's the only thing standing in the way of the player getting a character they've really wanted to try out that's a perfectly normal character in all regards.

I don't think that intentionally suiciding is the way to go, but if the player feels it's the only way, then the DM has failed.

The opposing side is that:
"Sorry, I could easily play the character that I have envisioned no matter the rolls, because a character isn't a set of numbers. But I refuse to play anything else, and I will even go so far as to serial suicide other characters until I get the numbers that I want" is a far worse attitude.

A character isn't a set of numbers. A character is an idea, a concept with a personality. The numbers don't matter. They're largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of who and what the character is. When the numbers become more important than the concept, you've turned to Roll-Playing instead of Role-Playing.
You can Role Play any character that you can imagine.
If you absolutely need the numbers to Roll Play him, or you'll intentionally sabotage your characters until you have those numbers, you're basically proclaiming that the numbers are more important than the game, and any DM in their right mind will have a problem with that attitude.

[TrexPushups]

The opposing side is that:
"Sorry, I could easily play the character that I have envisioned no matter the rolls, because a character isn't a set of numbers. But I refuse to play anything else, and I will even go so far as to serial suicide other characters until I get the numbers that I want" is a far worse attitude.

A character isn't a set of numbers. A character is an idea, a concept with a personality. The numbers don't matter. They're largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of who and what the character is. When the numbers become more important than the concept, you've turned to Roll-Playing instead of Role-Playing.
You can Role Play any character that you can imagine.
If you absolutely need the numbers to Roll Play him, or you'll intentionally sabotage your characters until you have those numbers, you're basically proclaiming that the numbers are more important than the game, and any DM in their right mind will have a problem with that attitude.

So no one at the table would have a problem if played an 7 int 8 cha character as a charming person with good judgment.

In addition I am also sure none of the other party members will mind when those failed persuade checks screw the whole group.

[calebrus]

So no one at the table would have a problem if played an 7 int 8 cha character as a charming person with good judgment.
Why would they have a problem with it?
If you play him as a charming person with good judgement, then he's a charming person with good judgement. The other people at the table only know he has a 7 and an 8 in those stats if you directly tell them that he does.


In addition I am also sure none of the other party members will mind when those failed persuade checks screw the whole group.
Because no one can ever fail a roll in 5e?
OK, so you're a charming person with good judgement, who also happens to be one very unlucky S.O.B. sometimes when he gets a little nervous speaking in front of a group.... or something like that.

Remember, the numbers do not define the character. Your play defines the character. The numbers are something that gets added to a die roll. Nothing more.

edit:
Let me ask you a question, and put this another way.
When your character gets into one of these social situations, how is it being played at the table?

Do you say "I persuade the guard to tell me when shift change occurs." *dice roll immediately follows*
Or do you say "Long time, Bill! How's the wife? Donna gives her love. Say, I was thinking of heading over to the Golden Goose tonight after I get out of here. A couple of the guys from Gate F are going, and I figure it would be a great time for us to catch up over a pint. Maybe you'd like to meet us there? What time do you get off?"

The first is Roll-Playing, and there's no way around a roll. You won't be very charming when Roll-Playing unless you have the stats for it.
The second is Role-Playing, and in many cases no roll is needed. A lot of times, it doesn't even matter what your stats are. If you're playing a charming guy, then he's a charming guy.
Because a DM isn't going to hear that second one and immediately tell you to roll a die. He's going to Role-Play what the guard would do, which in this case is probably try to remember who you are, coming up with nothing, and playing it off as if he remembers exactly who you are (just like we do in real life....).
"Ummm.... yeah.... I get off at six. Maybe I'll swing by if I have time." and he gives a confused look to his partner as you walk away.
No die roll is needed in a situation like that. You're charming because you are charming, not because a number on a paper told you that you were.
Role-Playing trumps stats a lot of the time.
Roll-Playing never trumps the stats.
So don't Roll-Play. Role-Play instead.

[MarkTriumphant]

Role-Playing trumps stats a lot of the time.
Roll-Playing never trumps the stats.
So don't Roll-Play. Role-Play instead.

The problem with playing like that is that it tends to favour one single player at the table, as not everyone is smooth and thinks of the right thing to say all the time - I include myself in that group. Does that mean that my friend Steve, who always knows what to say should be the only one who plays the party face, or should the fact that his grumpy ranger has dumped Charisma mean that I get to attempt to role-play the smooth person? Of course I personally will fail miserably, but I will get to roll a die and my character (who is not me) will succeed.

I can role-play, but to see if my character has succeeded in an endeavour often requires roll-play.

For the record, I play myself every day. One of the reasons that I play D&D is to allow myself to play someone who isn't a shy engineer, but is the life and soul of the party. Roll-playing mixed with role-playing allows that to happen.

[Giant2005]

Let me ask you a question, and put this another way.
When your character gets into one of these social situations, how is it being played at the table?

Do you say "I persuade the guard to tell me when shift change occurs." *dice roll immediately follows*
Or do you say "Long time, Bill! How's the wife? Donna gives her love. Say, I was thinking of heading over to the Golden Goose tonight after I get out of here. A couple of the guys from Gate F are going, and I figure it would be a great time for us to catch up over a pint. Maybe you'd like to meet us there? What time do you get off?"

The first is Roll-Playing, and there's no way around a roll. You won't be very charming when Roll-Playing unless you have the stats for it.
The second is Role-Playing, and in many cases no roll is needed. A lot of times, it doesn't even matter what your stats are. If you're playing a charming guy, then he's a charming guy.
Because a DM isn't going to hear that second one and immediately tell you to roll a die. He's going to Role-Play what the guard would do, which in this case is probably try to remember who you are, coming up with nothing, and playing it off as if he remembers exactly who you are (just like we do in real life....).
"Ummm.... yeah.... I get off at six. Maybe I'll swing by if I have time." and he gives a confused look to his partner as you walk away.
No die roll is needed in a situation like that. You're charming because you are charming, not because a number on a paper told you that you were.
Role-Playing trumps stats a lot of the time.
Roll-Playing never trumps the stats.
So don't Roll-Play. Role-Play instead.

I have never had a DM that fudged a roll simply because I made a convincing argument in character. I'd make my case and then he would make the roll to see how the guard responds. I don't think I'd even want to be playing without that roll, without the randomness offered by the dice, my character isn't trying to convince a guard; I am trying to convince the DM. The rules are what transform basic human interaction into a game. Ignoring rolls and the character's stats is essentially cheating and analogous to never missing with an attack merely because your description of the attack included the enemy being struck.

[Garimeth]

Wow, I can't believe there are peopl saying its ok to suicide train a game because you had to roll stats! What are we 12? This would be like signing up for a community sports team and because I can't have the number I want on my jersey intentionally throwing, losing, or sabotaging games! How can anyone look at that behavior and see that as acceptable?

I'm going to stay out of the role/roll debate, but nobody here should be saying that the above response is appropriate, especially when the title is asking for "Ethical Responses".

Next, I think the level of anxiety about these rolls is a bit premature... the rolls he wants he has a pretty good chance of rolling.

EDIT: OP, please don't take the my above post as directed at you individually, for all I know you were joking when you said that.

[Myzz]

I don't think the guy needs to actually attempt to suicide... If they start at low levels and he has several terrible stats which forces him to have bad attack and damage bonuses on top of negative HP mod, then the best he can hope for is to not be targetted since he likely isnt going to hit and is going to do poor dmg when he does.

If he is targetted then he'll likely die. And that's ok.

What will likely happen if he's just ignored is that he will be mostly useless in combat. AND if it is a combat heavy game, then he should probably retire by level 3 since he has had no, or very little impact and is actually a drain on party resources to keep him alive... At that point his character should realize he is bringing the group down and bugger off! At which point you bring in a new character, who hopefully you rolled better stats for.

I would play the concept, mostly to test drive it even with the low scores. If he dies, because those low scores get in the way... bring in his Big Brother who he had idolized to fill his spot. If he survives and retires because he's just awefull at that adventuring thing... Bring in Big Brother, to fill his requirement to the group...

Big Brother does not have to actually be an older brother... it could be a fellow student he trained with that he was good friends with and just a natural at stuff... It could actually be a previous mentor... An Uncle, the guy that took him in...

<edit add> On the flip side, if he is THE contributor to the group, especially if he has saved thier bacon a few times... Then this weak character being the Hero is MUCH more memorable, to you and the party!

[TrexPushups]

Wow, I can't believe there are peopl saying its ok to suicide train a game because you had to roll stats! What are we 12? This would be like signing up for a community sports team and because I can't have the number I want on my jersey intentionally throwing, losing, or sabotaging games! How can anyone look at that behavior and see that as acceptable?

I'm going to stay out of the role/roll debate, but nobody here should be saying that the above response is appropriate, especially when the title is asking for "Ethical Responses".

Next, I think the level of anxiety about these rolls is a bit premature... the rolls he wants he has a pretty good chance of rolling.

EDIT: OP, please don't take the my above post as directed at you individually, for all I know you were joking when you said that.

I have discussed this with several people and the response has universally been laughter followed by "that is terrible."

So in that spirit I present

"how to lose a character in 10 sessions"
1) wait for your turn at watch while camped out in the cold. Strip down to just a shirt and skivvies poor your canteen over your head and walk away from camp until you can't walk anymore. (Second most inappropriate way to do this. Probably won't be asked to return ;))

2) after the DM has a stranger offer to buy your group a round at the tavern you character stands up screams "my honor!" and commits seppuku. (My wife's iterpretation. Definitely won't be asked back for next session.)

3) rolled 18, 18, 18, 4, 3 18 and don't want to play a character with crippling defects long term? Welcome to being a wizard with no ranged spells who has a 3 con and a 4 dex.

I hope my burning hands gets the monsters before I get stabbed...(DM should still look at you harshely, then point a trembling finger at the door and growl "Get out!")

Which brings us to the only actual response if you have to roll and don't like the character the dice put into your hands. Play normally and refuse resurrection if you die.

[Myzz]

3) rolled 18, 18, 18, 4, 3 18 and don't want to play a character with crippling defects long term? Welcome to being a wizard with no ranged spells who has a 3 con and a 4 dex.

Those are Godly Stats... If thats what your playing Barbarian all the way! Low Int and Low Cha... You trust 1 maybe 2 people and you only attack when they tell you, then fly into a Rage and Smash! I'd probably even name him Hulk... and go Half Orc, thats colored green!

As a wizard, I'd dump wis and cha! 18 Str wiz for dah grappling ya kno! Although EK would be great too. Supper intelligent, with no common sense and a social pariah, always saying the first vulggar thought that pops in your head... Zero filter!


Which brings us to the only actual response if you have to roll and don't like the character the dice put into your hands. Play normally and refuse resurrection if you die.

That's probably the way to go =)

Heck even play super Honorable so that you risk your life in situations you are likely to die in. No retreat! No Surrender!

[TrexPushups]

Those are Godly Stats... If thats what your playing Barbarian all the way! Low Int and Low Cha... You trust 1 maybe 2 people and you only attack when they tell you, then fly into a Rage and Smash! I'd probably even name him Hulk... and go Half Orc, thats colored green!

As a wizard, I'd dump wis and cha! 18 Str wiz for dah grappling ya kno! Although EK would be great too. Supper intelligent, with no common sense and a social pariah, always saying the first vulggar thought that pops in your head... Zero filter!



That's probably the way to go =)

Heck even play super Honorable so that you risk your life in situations you are likely to die in. No retreat! No Surrender!

Yeah they are godly stats...but I don't ever want them. I would rather be able to play a well rounded character than a rage monster with intellect near animal level.

I have gotten the chance to roll. And based on my current lack of baby sitter for my 7 month old it looks like I probably won't get too either.

[Knaight]

The opposing side is that:
"Sorry, I could easily play the character that I have envisioned no matter the rolls, because a character isn't a set of numbers. But I refuse to play anything else, and I will even go so far as to serial suicide other characters until I get the numbers that I want" is a far worse attitude.
Your point? Neither of them excuses the other. It's possible for multiple attitudes to be bad at the same time.

[Rowan Wolf]

Perhaps it would be for the best (for all parties involved) if you just found a group that play point buy only as it does not seem that you are a good fit for that group/the group doesn't fit what you are looking for.

What exactly were you trying to play that can be done with the scores you rolled?

[TrexPushups]

Perhaps it would be for the best (for all parties involved) if you just found a group that play point buy only as it does not seem that you are a good fit for that group/the group doesn't fit what you are looking for.

What exactly were you trying to play that can be done with the scores you rolled?

Haven't rolled yet. Unless I can scrounge up a baby sitter I likely won't get to.

Stat array I wanted is earlier on thread.