Shutting down flight [3.5]

[Bad Wolf]

Need a non-magical way of shutting down flight that doesn't require me to be a saint or eat babies.

[Maglubiyet]

Shut it down in combat? Or in an area?

In combat you could use weapons like bolas and nets. Bolas trip the opponent, which I'm not sure how that's handled for a flying character, but it seems like that would apply. Nets entangle and reduce speed.

In an area you could have the walls/ceiling shorter than the turn distance for the manueverability. Unless they've got Perfect manueverability they have to move forward a certain distance to turn. In an outside region you could limit the turn radius by stringing up chains, ropes, vines, etc. in smaller increments.

[OldTrees1]

Tripping a flying creature causes them to stall (fall with a chance to recover) in 3.5.
Same happens if they are prevented from moving their minimum forward movement.

[Jormengand]

Does leadership count as non-magical? :smalltongue:

Because if so, you can just leadership in a Truenamer 7 to do it for you.

If it's not so much that your character wants to be non-magical and more that AMFs/null-magic zones/bans on magic are getting in your way... don't bother and shoot things? Grapple things before they get off the ground? Throw nets at stuff? Fly in on a griffon and grapple your opponent to the ground (invest in a way to reduce falling damage for yourself only... monk?) Really, you don't have a great many options.

I now want to build a monk that specialises in using his own slow fall to grapple people, hurl himself off a cliff, and then slow fall when he drops them. Hmm.

[Sliver]

I now want to build a monk that specialises in using his own slow fall to grapple people, hurl himself off a cliff, and then slow fall when he drops them. Hmm.

Wouldn't buying a ring of feather falling be a better option than being a monk? You won't be limited to being near a wall, the drop is always unlimited, and it has the benefit of you not being a monk.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, there's one way to pretty brutally shut down an enemy using magical flight, if you've got wings and Antimagic Field. (A high-level Favored Soul could do this, but a lower-level character with Feathered Wings graft and an Antimagic Torc could do the same.) Basically, you just fly 10' over the enemy, and simultaneously furl your wings and either start your Antimagic Field or drop it from the top corner of your cube to a bottom corner. As long as the 10' radius Antimagic Field includes the enemy you'll both drop at the same (gravity's) rate, and you'll continue to keep them from being able to use magic. You Ready an action so that when they go splat (and you're still in the air) you spread your wings and start flying again.

[Hiro Quester]

Wind.

Non magical it's not, normally. But perhaps you can get wind help in other ways?

A wind wall will push back tiny and small flying creatures.

Control winds spell can create a strong downdraft, or push things away.

A summoned air elemental can create a whirlwind that would disrupt flying.

[Platymus Pus]

A lot of arrows, they drop when they hit the negatives and the fall kills them.

[Jormengand]

Wouldn't buying a ring of feather falling be a better option than being a monk? You won't be limited to being near a wall, the drop is always unlimited, and it has the benefit of you not being a monk.

This is also possibly true. Might have to do it now...

[Cruiser1]

In combat you could use weapons like bolas and nets. Bolas trip the opponent, which I'm not sure how that's handled for a flying character, but it seems like that would apply. Nets entangle and reduce speed.
Also, a Tanglefoot Bag (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#tanglefootBag) if it hits a flier, can cause them to fall if they fail a save.


Unless they've got Perfect manueverability they have to move forward a certain distance to turn.
Good maneuverability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#movingInThreeDimensions) works too. Fliers with Perfect or Good maneuverability can hover in place, turn in place, and even fly backward. The only way that Good maneuverability is worse here, is that flying backwards or turning in place uses up some of your fly speed for that turn.

[Curmudgeon]

Unless they've got Perfect manueverability they have to move forward a certain distance to turn.
There's a workaround. Fliers with any maneuverability grade (as low as clumsy) can simply pick up Hover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#hover). It uses a move action, but they can thereafter start flying in any direction, even 180 degrees from their previous flight path.

[ericgrau]

Need a non-magical way of shutting down flight that doesn't require me to be a saint or eat babies.

Per rules compendium tripping makes flying creatures fall. Bolas let you trip at range. You may want to check if this applies to non-winged flight, I'm not sure. Tanglefoot bags may help too.

The other way on a non-caster at least is to use magic items. Fly yourself for example. If your non-casters aren't getting WBL in magic items, your DM is heavily imbalancing the game (much more than usual depending on your opinion) and it's time to fold and play a caster.

[Bad Wolf]

Okay, thought I updated the original post, but it's not showing. So let me try this again.

Meeting an aspect of Asmodeus in the Outlands to broker a deal, so he can't annihilate me on sight. I need a way to shut down his flight (120 feet, perfect) so he can't chase me down and beat me out of the air.

[Andezzar]

Okay, thought I updated the original post, but it's not showing. So let me try this again.

Meeting an aspect of Asmodeus in the Outlands to broker a deal, so he can't annihilate me on sight. I need a way to shut down his flight (120 feet, perfect) so he can't chase me down and beat me out of the air.What has your character done to expect such a treatment? After all he is a (possibly good) person coming out of his free will to the devil to broker a deal. I think the Aspect of Asmodeus is much more inclined to try (and succeed) in exploiting that situation and corrupt the character.

[Scorponok]

How big is this creature and what spells do you have access to?

I find Resilient Sphere is a multi-purpose spell that solves a lot of problem encounters. Reflex save or be caught at least 8 minutes in a bubble. (Minimum level to cast it is level-7 wizard or level-8 sorcerer.) It is 1 ft/level sphere though so not sure if an aspect of Asmodeus would fit in it.

I also vaguely recall a spell in (maybe) Miniatures Handbook that ground targets that had flight.

If the aspect starts on the ground, I suppose you could keep using Halt spells (Level-3 spell, Player's Handbook II) to keep him stuck there.



EDIT: Yes, my memory doesn't fail me in my old age! Undeniable Gravity, page 40 in the Miniatures Handbook, will ground a flying creature, barring a failed Will Save. It's a level-2 spell only though, so it might be easy for a demon to save against, but it is long range (400 ft + 40 ft./level) and is a level-2 spell, so you can probably spam it multiple times before the demon gets close to you. One failed Will save and it's grounded for a few minutes.

EDIT part 2: NEVERMIND! Just read the post again and it said non-magical. Yeah, I think tanglefoots and nets are probably the best way.

[bjoern]

Couldn't you just use teleport? Or celerity teleport if needed. If he drops a dimension anchor in you, dispel it and then teleport.
If he AMF You use the old shrink item cone trick to block line if effect and get out of there.

[ericgrau]

He can probably teleport too so most ways of restricting his movement aren't going to work. You could get an item of earthbind since it's a low level spell, but both a save and SR apply. I think your best bet is to ddoor away, and there are very many items that do that or some variation of it. If you can pay an NPC to put some basic 24 hour anti-scrying spells on you like nondetection or even mind blank then it wouldn't hurt. A single mind blank only costs 1,200 gp. May not be necessary, but nice to have.

[Bad Wolf]

What has your character done to expect such a treatment? After all he is a (possibly good) person coming out of his free will to the devil to broker a deal. I think the Aspect of Asmodeus is much more inclined to try (and succeed) in exploiting that situation and corrupt the character.

He has something the Aspect wants badly.

[RolandDeschain]

Okay, thought I updated the original post, but it's not showing. So let me try this again.

Meeting an aspect of Asmodeus in the Outlands to broker a deal, so he can't annihilate me on sight. I need a way to shut down his flight (120 feet, perfect) so he can't chase me down and beat me out of the air.

Outlands you say.

Meet him close to the spire.

[Bad Wolf]

Outlands you say.

Meet him close to the spire.

Yeah, I know, that's what I'm planning.

[ben-zayb]

Well, there's one way to pretty brutally shut down an enemy using magical flight, if you've got wings and Antimagic Field. (A high-level Favored Soul could do this, but a lower-level character with Feathered Wings graft and an Antimagic Torc could do the same.) Basically, you just fly 10' over the enemy, and simultaneously furl your wings and either start your Antimagic Field or drop it from the top corner of your cube to a bottom corner. As long as the 10' radius Antimagic Field includes the enemy you'll both drop at the same (gravity's) rate, and you'll continue to keep them from being able to use magic. You Ready an action so that when they go splat (and you're still in the air) you spread your wings and start flying again.

Oh hell yeah! I experienced a similar thing with an RKV chassis + Permanent Emanation (AMF), but using the crusader version of feather fall (Strike of Righteous Vitality).


@OP, have you considered flying faster than 120ft instead? It's a lot easier to optimize too.

[Bad Wolf]

Oh hell yeah! I experienced a similar thing with an RKV chassis + Permanent Emanation (AMF), but using the crusader version of feather fall (Strike of Righteous Vitality).


@OP, have you considered flying faster than 120ft instead? It's a lot easier to optimize too.

...Okay, why didn't I think of that? It'll have to be Extraordinary, since we're meeting in the outlands.

[ben-zayb]

...Okay, why didn't I think of that? It'll have to be Extraordinary, since we're meeting in the outlands.

In that case, may I suggest the Wild Cohort feat? (or, maybe just use handle animal, really, for Spurring). These are my suggestions, off of SRD:
Half Fey Megaraptor/Deinonychus (120 fly speed), if you are into dinosaurs
Half Fey Dire Shark (120 fly speed), if you're into sharks
Half Fey Porpoise/GiantSquid (160 fly speed), if you're into unmodified speed

Maybe load them up with feats to increase Fly Speed

EDIT: Yes, the campaign world implications are disturbing, but at least you are not eating babies.

[Zweisteine]

Doesn't arcane magic still work in the Outlands? Or does it just work slightly closer to the Spire than divine magic?

A better idea, though, would be to get the Aspect's word that he will not harm you unless you harm him (in a wording such as I just gave, with no loopholes such as either of you "attempting to hurt" the other). Being a very lawful outsider all about contracts, he'll probably be bound by it, or at least unwilling to go against it.

Getting some high-power Inevitables to supervise said contract might also be a good idea.


Depending very heavily on what abilities the Aspect has, a burrow speed might be easier to beat him with.