I feel ashamed, but I need help with my build.

[Hyena]

Okay, so I'm playing 5ed for the second time in my life. Previously, I was playing a paladin - a pretty straightforward class, all three options of which are pretty equal and don't differ too much from what paladin had in the 3.5. Smites are still there, limited spellcasting is still there, paladin needs very same stats and his gameplay hasn't changed. He even has a horse again - this time as a spell, as opposed to a class feature, though.
Now, however, I'm playing a cleric. The sheer number of options dazzles me - even though my DM limited me to Life and Light, due to my choice of a god, I'm left afraid and confused. I don't understand how the cleric is played in this edition. For example, I see that they gain a cantrip, which grows in damage every five levels or so, kind like warlock's eldritch blast. The question is, why would I want to wield any weapons at all with this cantrip at my disposal? Or am I wrong, and weapons are actually superior?
Which stats do I need, and in which order? Which domain do I choose? Which one is better? What do I lose, if I pick the other one? Do I take a mace and go into melee, or do I blast my enemies from afar with my Sacred Flame? What are bonus spells, and how do they work? Can I cast them spontaneously, like heals in 3.5, or do I just add them to my spellbook? If the later, why do some bonus spells already exist in cleric's spellbook in the first place? What feats do I take?

Help me, giantitp, you're my only hope.

P.S.: We start at level 5.

[Shining Wrath]

First you need to choose Life or Light.
Life you are the uber-healer.
Light you get to do some serious blasting.

You may want a weapon simply because casting a spell, even a cantrip, when in somebody's face grants them an attack of opportunity. Also Life gets Divine Strike at level 8 which gives you a damage boost to your weapon strikes.

Life domain you'll get heavy armor. Combine with a shield and you can tank reasonably well. Your focus is using bless and similar boosts, dealing modest damage, and keeping everyone alive.

Light domain your jobs is to hang back (usually) in medium armor and, yes, use the Sacred Flame cantrip (the only attack cantrip on the cleric list) until you're sick of it. Note that at level 8 you get Potent Spellcasting, and add your wisdom modifier to the damage done by Sacred Flame.

For either Domain, Wisdom is stat #1, Constitution is stat #2. For Life, Dexterity is a dump stat; for Light, given medium armor, you might benefit from a little Dex. For either, especially Life, you may hit people with your melee weapon from time to time, so Strength might help.

You have no need for Intelligence or Charisma other than saving throws and skills.

Your choice of Domain should be guided by the rest of your party. In 5e, optimize parties, not characters. If your party is low on ranged attack you should choose Light; if the DM doesn't give very many rests, Life is very useful.

EDIT: OK, NOT ENOUGH COFFEE. Unless they have Mage Slayer, casting doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

[kaoskonfety]

As light or life you are unlikely to be using your melee weapon much (without some sort of buff that changes your priorities).

Cleric is basically a blaster, buff or control caster with the options available for healing (life gets the MOST of these options). Your armor allows you to stay closer to the action and fill out the front line in a pinch (you thought the wizard was doing it?). Your cantrips deal less damage than warlock (everyones does) but you make up for it in a small raft of ways.

I'd suggest life cleric for the first run - light is more "blasty" and may cause some edition confusion. There is a cleric guide floating about somewhere...


http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics&highlight=cleric

that has some thoughts on the matter, but by and large they play like 2nd and 3rd ed clerics with the add on that the cantrips keep your round by round non-spell slot damage a bit more competitive.

Edit - for a quietly twinky trick - heavy armor master on a low level life cleric is getting into the "why are the monsters even trying to kill me" territory - its not healer role optimal, but with a bit of tweaking you can actually get by *quite well* as a tough

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, and cleric spells work thus:
Cantrips - at will, all day, every day. Level 5 you'll know 4 of the 7 on the Cleric list.
Other spells: you prepare N spells, N=Wis modifier + cleric level. Assuming Wisdom of 16 (+3), you'll prepare 8 at level 5. If you get Wisdom of 18, prepare 9.
You can prepare spells of any level you have slots, so they can all be level 3 (at 5th level), or all level 1, or some mix. At least one of each level is a good idea.
You can cast any spell you have prepared using a spell slot of that level or higher. This means that if you prepare only level 3 spells your level 1 and level 2 slots are useless, so don't do that.

At level 5 you'll have 4 L1 slots, 3 L2, and 2 L3. That gives you 9 non-cantrip uses of magic per day. Casting a spell does not remove it from your prepared list, so you can use all your L1 slots on Cure Wounds if circumstances warrant.

Your attack rolls with Sacred Flame rely on Wisdom, not Dexterity; this is a big improvement over 3.5. Your attack bonus is Wisdom modifier + proficiency (3 at level 5).

EDIT: Sacred Flame does not require a to-hit roll at all (and thus ignores partial cover), but their save is still affected by your Wisdom.

[Stan]

First you need to choose Life or Light.
You may want a weapon simply because casting a spell, even a cantrip, when in somebody's face grants them an attack of opportunity. Also Light gets Divine Strike at level 8 which gives you a damage boost to your weapon strikes.


I thought that wasn't true any more - only moving out of range triggers an aoo. But a weapon is a good idea anyway as spell attack rolls are at disadvantage if someone is next to you and it's a good idea to have variety to deal with resistances.

Intelligence doesn't help you much. If you go heavy armor, dex helps mainly for saves and initiative so can be low is needed. After wisdom, I'd go with con or cha depending how you see your roll.

Chain and shield give a high AC at level 1 so you can be up front if needed.
Light and Life are both solid choices, go with sounds more fun to you.

[Shining Wrath]

I thought that wasn't true any more - only moving out of range triggers an aoo. But a weapon is a good idea anyway as spell attack rolls are at disadvantage if someone is next to you and it's a good idea to have variety to deal with resistances.

You're right, I was forgetting that not everyone takes Mage Slayer.

[ZenBear]

Also Light gets Divine Strike at level 8 which gives you a damage boost to your weapon strikes.
You mistyped. Life gives Divine Strike, Light gives Potent Spellcasting.

I thought that wasn't true any more - only moving out of range triggers an aoo. But a weapon is a good idea anyway as spell attack rolls are at disadvantage if someone is next to you and it's a good idea to have variety to deal with resistances.
Sacred Flame doesn't have an attack roll, the defender makes a saving throw. For this reason, Light and other Potent Spellcaster Clerics are well advised to pick up War Caster so they can cast Sacred Flame as an opportunity attack. The resistance issue is true, but few things are resistant to radiant damage. Keep a dagger on hand in the off chance this comes up.

[Grand Warchief]

.

You may want a weapon simply because casting a spell, even a cantrip, when in somebody's face grants them an attack of opportunity...

So far as I am aware, casting in melee does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

From the PHB (p195):
O p p o r t u n i t y A t t a c k s
In a fight, everyone is constantly watching for enemies to drop their guard. You can rarely move heedlessly past your foes without putting yourself in danger; doing so
provokes an opportunity attack. You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile
creature that you can see m oves out of your reach.
To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one m elee attack against the provoking creature. The attack interrupts the provoking creature’s
movement, occurring right before the creature leaves your reach.
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone
or som ething moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe’s
reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy.

That means you can cast a spell in melee with no consequences, assuming it doesn't use a ranged attack roll. If it does, it is done with disadvantage.

Also from page 195:
R a n g e d A t t a c k s i n C l o s e C o m b a t
Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you m ake a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn’t incapacitated

[Grand Warchief]

The only exception to ship is the mage slayer feat.

[Shining Wrath]

BTW, if you are a Life Domain cleric, Hold Person is a nice offensive spell. It shuts down one enemy until they make a Wisdom save; at level 5 your Save DC ought to be 8 + 3 (Proficiency bonus) + 4 (Wisdom modifier) = 15. Unless they've got Wisdom for some reason, you may very shut down an enemy for several rounds as long as you concentrate.

Which in turn makes the enemy want to attack you, the Life Cleric. Who at level 6 gets the ability to self-heal any time you heal a comrade. Combined with your high AC, you can easily tie down most of the enemy's actions for a round or two while you heal your allies and yourself as well. It's not guaranteed success, but with good luck on your Concentration rolls while they fail their Wisdom saves, this can win a fight.

[xyianth]

The primary benefit of the life cleric is not about being able to heal an extra 3hp in combat. The fact that your heals heal more hp means you need less daily slots to handle healing. This, in turn, frees up your daily slots for other uses. This is why life clerics are some of the best melee oriented clerics.

If choosing life cleric, strongly consider taking the magic initiate feat for 2 druid cantrips and a druid 1st level spell. You want the shillelagh cantrip if at all possible as it lets you use wisdom for attack and damage with your 1d8 quarterstaff. (You can also see if your DM is ok with allowing disciple of life to work with the goodberry spell. RAW is questionable but could result in 40hp healed in a 1st level slot. I'd probably just allow it to create 3 extra berries myself. Either way, it is still a good spell since it can heal decent hp from low level slots and provides nutrition.) As you advance in level, you will gain extra damage on your attack, and you can use spells to further enhance your melee prowess. Spiritual weapon(2nd level) is a great way to get bonus action attacks without needing feats and spirit guardians(3rd level) is pretty great source of extra damage and stickyness for a melee cleric. If multiclassing is allowed, there are lots of dips that can boost your melee effectiveness.

If choosing light cleric, the feat you should strongly consider is warcaster. Your primary attack is the sacred radiance cantrip and you want to be able to use it as your opportunity attack. You will want to keep your Dex around 14 or so and use medium armor. (If you roll really well, and end up with a 20 Dex, switch to light armor instead) Unlike the life cleric, light clerics can generally reserve their concentration slot for party buffs without restricting their ability to inflict damage from range. The most important thing to remember with all non-life clerics is that you need to convince your party that you are not the healbot. If you try to be, you will spend entirely too many daily slots on healing, leaving you with very few to use for blasting.

Both clerics benefit immensely from higher wisdom scores. Both strength (life) and dexterity (light) scores should only be the minimum required for maximum effectiveness. For life clerics, (other than dwarves) you will want a 15 strength and 10 dexterity to use plate mail efficiently. For light clerics, strength is unimportant and dexterity should either be 14. (medium armor) or 20 (light armor) Neither cleric cares much about intelligence or charisma scores. (outside of skills) Everyone like high constitution.

[SharkForce]

you don't need 10 dex to use plate (or heavy armour in general) effectively. heavy armour does not incorporate dex at all, whether positive or negative.

which is not to say that good dex is not a good thing to have (initiative, dex saves, etc). it just isn't needed to get proper use out of heavy armour, is all.

[Hyena]

Thank all of you for your advice.
I've decided that I want to be a life cleric - heavy armor sold it to me. My DM mocks me for deciding to be a glorified healbot and buff-dispenser, his reasoning for calling cleric a weak class for melee is that
1) Heavy armor makes him slow, which makes retreat an impossible option.
2) Concentration mechanic causes him to lose buffs when hit.
3) He doesn't have that many offensive spells, and his weapon skills are inferior to paladin or fighter.
Is he wrong? If yes, why?

Also, you've said that warcaster is needed for light clerics. What about life? I've thought it would be more important for them, since they wield weapons and make concentration checks all the time, which warcaster feat helps them with.

[SharkForce]

1) only if you don't have decent strength. since you're not investing in dex too much (presumably) you should be able to afford decent strength anyways. in any event, you'll want decent strength for attack as well (unless you're using a club or staff for shillelagh with a magic initiate feat, as was suggested). with sufficient strength (or by being a dwarf), heavy armour does not slow you down at all.

2) you are at least less likely to be hit than most, and you can minimize your chance of losing spells by good decision making (resilient: con, warcaster, boosting your con).

3) somewhat true. you do get some offensive spells (including some very good ones), but then again, you've got better CC and utility than the paladin and fighter. your melee offensive power isn't exactly amazing, but defensively you're probably just as tough as a fighter. possibly more so, if you use a shield and are comparing to the best DPS fighter builds which frequently don't.

4) it's important for both, but the reason it was so much more emphasized for the light cleric is that you have better cantrips (add wisdom mod) and therefore gain more from using a cantrip as an opportunity attack. that said, opportunity attacks aren't exactly common in 5e, so i wouldn't worry *that* much about that aspect unless you've got a group optimized to generate opportunity attacks.

[ZenBear]

Thank all of you for your advice.
I've decided that I want to be a life cleric - heavy armor sold it to me. My DM mocks me for deciding to be a glorified healbot and buff-dispenser, his reasoning for calling cleric a weak class for melee is that
1) Heavy armor makes him slow, which makes retreat an impossible option.
2) Concentration mechanic causes him to lose buffs when hit.
3) He doesn't have that many offensive spells, and his weapon skills are inferior to paladin or fighter.
Is he wrong? If yes, why?

Also, you've said that warcaster is needed for light clerics. What about life? I've thought it would be more important for them, since they wield weapons and make concentration checks all the time, which warcaster feat helps them with.
He is very wrong.
1) Heavy armor only makes you slow if you have 15+ STR. Get 16 STR for +3 in melee and you're gold.
2) Concentration is not hard to buff, and with your high AC (plate+shield=20 before magic). Take Resilient: Constitution and/or War Caster.
3) The few offensive spells you get are plenty. Inflict Wounds, Guiding Bolt, Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, Flame Strike, etc. You don't need much more than that. Your melee is weaker than Fighter and Paladin, yes, but they don't get those spells to supplement it. It balances out.

My Life Cleric build is thus:
STR 16 CON 20 DEX 10 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 8
Resilient: CON at level 1 (Human Variant), War Caster and Toughness, the rest ASI to get above stats.
Incredibly hard to kill between plate+shield, self-healing and all dat HP. My damage is good enough to stay relevant and my Concentration checks get 5+prof with advantage. I cast Spirit Guardians and charge into the midst of my enemies, few things will outlive me.
Option: Fighter at level 1 means no need for Res:CON and I get Protection Fighting Style to be even more supporty! :D

[Stan]

Think of a life cleric as a utility person - you can hold the line or stand back and cast spells as needed. They should have roughly the AC of a fighter and only a tad fewer hp. Their melee damage output early on is nearly as good as a fighter but it will fall behind due to noncaster's special abilities. Then you have spells, which are offensively not quite on par with a wizard's but you have better AC and more hp. Plus you're a healing machine.

Concentration is only a minor issue - not all your spells are concentration and you should have a good AC so you'r not that easy to hit. Plus if monsters spend time hitting the character who can absorb it best due to healing, the other melee people won't drop too soon.

[Strill]

The question is, why would I want to wield any weapons at all with this cantrip at my disposal? Or am I wrong, and weapons are actually superior?
Each cleric domain specializes in either cantrips, or melee attacks. The ones which specialize in cantrips (Light domain), have a level 8 class feature allowing them to add their WIS bonus to cantrip damage. Meanwhile, the ones who specialize in melee attacks (Life domain), have a level 8 class feature adding +1d8 damage (eventually 2d8) to their melee attacks. Which domain you choose will determine which combat style you specialize in.

That said, melee attacks have a bit more potential, since you can get powerful feats like Polearm Master, Shield Master, and Sentinel which synergize extremely well.


Which stats do I need, and in which order? Which domain do I choose? Which one is better? What do I lose, if I pick the other one? Do I take a mace and go into melee, or do I blast my enemies from afar with my Sacred Flame?
Light domain is an offensive caster. You get several powerful wide-area spells like Fireball. You also get an ability to protect yourself and your allies by blinding opponents as they attack. If you pick Light, you want to prioritize WIS above all else, followed by CON and DEX.

Life domain specializes in healing. Nearly all their features make their healing spells more effective. A Life domain cleric is a melee-focused cleric, and gets heavy armor unlike Light domain which only gets medium. You want at least 15 STR in order to wear heavy armor, preferably 16. You also want a high WIS score to boost your healing spell effectiveness, and CON to boost your HP.


What are bonus spells, and how do they work? Can I cast them spontaneously, like heals in 3.5, or do I just add them to my spellbook? If the later, why do some bonus spells already exist in cleric's spellbook in the first place?

First of all, clerics do not have a spellbook. Their spells are granted to them from their god, and they may prepare any cleric spell, as long as it is a level they can cast.

Second, all casters are "spontaneous casters". Spells in 5e are no longer bound to particular spell slots. If you have the Bless spell prepared, casting it using a spell slot no longer removes it from your list of prepared spells.

Your domain spells are spells which you are considered to always have prepared. For example, Life domain has Bless and Cure Wounds on its domain spell list. This means a Life Cleric does not need to prepare these spells in order to cast them.


What feats do I take?
For a Life Cleric, either Shield Master or Polearm Master (but not both) are fantastic options which greatly improve your melee prowess. You won't quite match a fighter, but they'll still give you a dramatic boost in effectiveness. Once you have one of those feats, the Sentinel feat is a great way to boost your melee ability even more, while controlling the enemy's movements and supporting your team.

For a Light Cleric, most of your offensive spells deal fire damage. Elemental Adept will allow you to bypass Fire resistant enemies.

For either cleric, taking the Resilient feat for Constitution is a great choice. This feat gives you proficiency in Constitution saving throws, which includes Concentration saves, as well as all kinds of other nasty effects.

The Observant feat gives +1 WIS, and some extra perks. It's useful if your Wisdom score is odd-numbered.

If your party doesn't have a Wizard, then taking the Ritual Caster feat to get the Wizard's ritual spells can be a great option, since it allows you to learn the Find Familiar spell right off the bat - giving you a Wizard's familiar, as well as allowing you to learn a wide variety of useful utility spells from the Wizard list.


Also, you've said that warcaster is needed for light clerics. What about life? I've thought it would be more important for them, since they wield weapons and make concentration checks all the time, which warcaster feat helps them with.The Resilient feat, for Constitution, is far better than War Caster. Don't bother with War Caster if you're concerned about concentration checks.

-----------------

Finally, my personal tip: The Bless spell is monumentally powerful. It's quite seriously on-par with 3rd-level spells. Use it every single fight.

[Vogonjeltz]

Okay, so I'm playing 5ed for the second time in my life. Previously, I was playing a paladin - a pretty straightforward class, all three options of which are pretty equal and don't differ too much from what paladin had in the 3.5. Smites are still there, limited spellcasting is still there, paladin needs very same stats and his gameplay hasn't changed. He even has a horse again - this time as a spell, as opposed to a class feature, though.
Now, however, I'm playing a cleric. The sheer number of options dazzles me - even though my DM limited me to Life and Light, due to my choice of a god, I'm left afraid and confused. I don't understand how the cleric is played in this edition. For example, I see that they gain a cantrip, which grows in damage every five levels or so, kind like warlock's eldritch blast. The question is, why would I want to wield any weapons at all with this cantrip at my disposal? Or am I wrong, and weapons are actually superior?
Which stats do I need, and in which order? Which domain do I choose? Which one is better? What do I lose, if I pick the other one? Do I take a mace and go into melee, or do I blast my enemies from afar with my Sacred Flame? What are bonus spells, and how do they work? Can I cast them spontaneously, like heals in 3.5, or do I just add them to my spellbook? If the later, why do some bonus spells already exist in cleric's spellbook in the first place? What feats do I take?

Help me, giantitp, you're my only hope.

P.S.: We start at level 5.

The cleric cantrip is a ranged attack, so it suffers disadvantage in melee. In terms of damage weapons are, almost always, superior, but the cantrip provides a ranged attack, so you'll almost certainly be using it.

Do you have the PHB? For every class there's a recommended quick start, I'm away from book, but I would imagine it is: Wisdom, Constitution, Strength as your top 3.

If by bonus spells you mean the spells granted because of domain choice, that is explained in the class entry. Clerics don't actually have a spell book.

Life=better healing
Light=better damage

Which would be more fun for you? Check out the entries and see what special abilities look more fun. Go with that one.

[Strill]

The cleric cantrip is a ranged attack, so it suffers disadvantage in melee.

No it's not. It's a spell that calls for a DEX save.

[Yorrin]

There's plenty of good advice in here already, but for a more systematic discussion consider the handbook in my sig.

Life Domain is a solid all-arounder, with heavy armor and Spear + Shield + Heavy Armor as a good melee option. For the first 4 levels you'll be hitting as hard as anyone else with your Str score, and then at level 5 the Spirit Guardians spell kicks in to make up for your lack of second attack. At level 8 you'll be getting a bonus to your damage, allowing you to keep up even easier.

Life Domain has the benefit of letting your heals go further, meaning you'll actually need to cast fewer of them, allowing you to free up your spell slots for attack (Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, Guiding Bolt) or Utility (Sending, Death Ward, Hold Person, etc.)

A note on the discussion on Sacred Flame that I don't think anyone has brought up- it's a Dex Save, not an attack roll, meaning no disadvantage if for some reason you need to cast it in melee.

For Ability scores Wis>Str>Con>Dex, dump Int and/or Cha.

[MeeposFire]

If you want to dump str and play using shillelagh play as a dwarf. They get their full movement in heavy armor regardless of str.

[SharkForce]

If you want to dump str and play using shillelagh play as a dwarf. They get their full movement in heavy armor regardless of str.

that sounds alright at level 4+, but absolutely horrid at levels 1-3.

[xyianth]

you don't need 10 dex to use plate (or heavy armour in general) effectively. heavy armour does not incorporate dex at all, whether positive or negative.

which is not to say that good dex is not a good thing to have (initiative, dex saves, etc). it just isn't needed to get proper use out of heavy armour, is all.

That's actually what I meant by efficiently. Plate armor doesn't need any dex score, true, but dumping dex because of that is a bad idea.


Thank all of you for your advice.
I've decided that I want to be a life cleric - heavy armor sold it to me. My DM mocks me for deciding to be a glorified healbot and buff-dispenser, his reasoning for calling cleric a weak class for melee is that
1) Heavy armor makes him slow, which makes retreat an impossible option.
2) Concentration mechanic causes him to lose buffs when hit.
3) He doesn't have that many offensive spells, and his weapon skills are inferior to paladin or fighter.
Is he wrong? If yes, why?

Also, you've said that warcaster is needed for light clerics. What about life? I've thought it would be more important for them, since they wield weapons and make concentration checks all the time, which warcaster feat helps them with.

Warcaster is quite possibly the best feat in the game for any spellcaster. The advantage on concentration checks is valuable enough to warrant a feat on its own. The ability to cast without a free hand is useful. The ability to cast almost any spell as a reaction is just plain nuts. I pointed it out for Light clerics because it is basically the only feat they really need. A Life cleric would love it too, but there are other feats that will also help, and you may have to choose between them.

As others have pointed out, your DM is very, very wrong. But, I do think it is a little alerting that your DM is mocking you for your character choice. I hope nothing comes of it, but that is one of my 'red flags' that indicate a potential problem from the outset.


Each cleric domain specializes in either cantrips, or melee attacks. The ones which specialize in cantrips (Light domain), have a level 8 class feature allowing them to add their WIS bonus to cantrip damage. Meanwhile, the ones who specialize in melee attacks (Life domain), have a level 8 class feature adding +1d8 damage (eventually 2d8) to their melee attacks. Which domain you choose will determine which combat style you specialize in.

That said, melee attacks have a bit more potential, since you can get powerful feats like Polearm Master, Shield Master, and Sentinel which synergize extremely well.
...
For a Life Cleric, either Shield Master or Polearm Master (but not both) are fantastic options which greatly improve your melee prowess. You won't quite match a fighter, but they'll still give you a dramatic boost in effectiveness. Once you have one of those feats, the Sentinel feat is a great way to boost your melee ability even more, while controlling the enemy's movements and supporting your team.

I want to point out a few things to remember when it comes to optimizing melee clerics with feats. Cleric's divine strike ability is 1/turn. Polearm master is usually considered one of the best feats for melee characters, but melee clerics get less out of it than others. When you combine this with the fact that clerics already have a way, in class, to get bonus action 1d8+wis attacks and the fact that clerics, being full casters, have more useful feats than most melee characters to pick from; it's hard to recommend polearm master as the best feat to take. (It is still good, but so are several others, and you will likely need 2+ ASIs to boost wisdom.)


...
The Resilient feat, for Constitution, is far better than War Caster. Don't bother with War Caster if you're concerned about concentration checks.

This is wrong. The resilient feat gives between a +2 to +6 bonus to concentration checks. (maybe +1 more if the you have an odd con score) Warcaster gives advantage on the check. Most concentration checks in the early-mid game are DC 10. This means the resilient feat grants a 10-25% boosted success rate from levels 1-12. Many other threads have shown that advantage on a check is approximately equal to an extra 25% success chance. In addition to the boost to concentration checks, you get to cast single target spells as reactions. The only other way to grant action economy like this is quicken spell metamagic from sorcerers. At higher levels, (13+) resilient does start boosting concentration checks better than warcaster. The important take away from that is that the two feats work together seamlessly.


...
Finally, my personal tip: The Bless spell is monumentally powerful. It's quite seriously on-par with 3rd-level spells. Use it every single fight.

+1 to this. Bless is an obscene spell in 5e.


that sounds alright at level 4+, but absolutely horrid at levels 1-3.

The key to this is starting with a high wisdom score and using sacred flame as your primary attack from 1-3 until you get shillelagh. It is not as bad as it sounds. The main advantage is that you can dump strength entirely and not care. This frees up more ASIs for feats. If you are using point buy, you can also allocate more points to constitution. If you are rolling, you can assign your second highest roll to constitution instead. When you combine this with the +2 con, +1 wis, darkvision, poison resistance, and +1hp/level attributes of hill dwarves, it is actually a pretty great character. I will point out, however, that the Divine Intervention ability is complete and utter crap, so multiclassing on a cleric can often be worthwhile. If you are finding that you have a lot of feats to choose from and only so many ASIs to spare, you can skip the magic initiate feat and just take 1 level in druid. You won't slow down your slot progression at all, you gain 2 cantrips and an extra 1+wis 1st level spells prepared. And since most of the time a cleric's single best option is to cast bless, the 1 level delay in higher level spells will hardly be noticed.

[MeeposFire]

that sounds alright at level 4+, but absolutely horrid at levels 1-3.

Well that is what things like sacred flame are for and that is also why I usually do this with a nature cleric since it is quicker and does not require a feat but since that is off the table...

[Strill]

I want to point out a few things to remember when it comes to optimizing melee clerics with feats. Cleric's divine strike ability is 1/turn. Polearm master is usually considered one of the best feats for melee characters, but melee clerics get less out of it than others. When you combine this with the fact that clerics already have a way, in class, to get bonus action 1d8+wis attacks and the fact that clerics, being full casters, have more useful feats than most melee characters to pick from; it's hard to recommend polearm master as the best feat to take. (It is still good, but so are several others, and you will likely need 2+ ASIs to boost wisdom.)Why do melee clerics get any less out of it than say, a fighter? The answer is they don't. They get exactly as much out of it as a fighter. The only classes who are any better with polearm master than a cleric are the Paladin and Blade Pact Warlock. Polearm Master gives the cleric one to two extra attacks per turn, AND gives them a reliable reaction, which they're notably missing. It also synergizes very well with Sentinel, letting you stop melee opponents in their tracks before they can even get into melee range.

Wisdom isn't the be-all-end-all of the Cleric class. You're going to be casting much fewer offensive spells than other casters, and many of your spells aren't affected by Wisdom at all.


This is wrong. The resilient feat gives between a +2 to +6 bonus to concentration checks. (maybe +1 more if the you have an odd con score) Warcaster gives advantage on the check. Most concentration checks in the early-mid game are DC 10. This means the resilient feat grants a 10-25% boosted success rate from levels 1-12. Many other threads have shown that advantage on a check is approximately equal to an extra 25% success chance. In addition to the boost to concentration checks, you get to cast single target spells as reactions. The only other way to grant action economy like this is quicken spell metamagic from sorcerers. At higher levels, (13+) resilient does start boosting concentration checks better than warcaster. The important take away from that is that the two feats work together seamlessly. War Caster lets you cast a single-target spell IN PLACE of an opportunity attack. It's not improving your action economy. It's just a mediocre, situational boost to caster cleric damage.

Moreover, you're completely ignoring all of the other benefits Resilient (CON) gives, like +1 CON, or the huge number of deadly debilitating constitution saves which it also protects against.

Furthermore, the two feats absolutely do NOT work together seamlessly. Advantage is worth a +5 bonus if you need to roll an 11 or higher to succeed, but becomes weaker and weaker the better (or worse) your saving throw bonus becomes. When you take Resilient (CON), you lower the marginal benefit of War Caster. Resilient (CON) is necessary to defend against the huge number of save-or-incapacitate effects that fall under constitution. War Caster just gives a minor boost to opportunity attacks, which are a fleetingly rare occurrence. Resilient it is the obvious choice.


The ability to cast without a free hand is useful.Not for clerics. Your holy symbol doesn't need a free hand. This does nothing for you.


The key to this is starting with a high wisdom score and using sacred flame as your primary attack from 1-3 until you get shillelagh. It is not as bad as it sounds. The main advantage is that you can dump strength entirely and not care. This frees up more ASIs for feats. If you are using point buy, you can also allocate more points to constitution. If you are rolling, you can assign your second highest roll to constitution instead. When you combine this with the +2 con, +1 wis, darkvision, poison resistance, and +1hp/level attributes of hill dwarves, it is actually a pretty great character.By using Shillelagh, you're sacrificing your bonus action every turn, which you could be using to do much more damage. It's a decidedly mediocre cantrip and is absolutely not worth spending a feat on.



I will point out, however, that the Divine Intervention ability is complete and utter crap, so multiclassing on a cleric can often be worthwhile. If you are finding that you have a lot of feats to choose from and only so many ASIs to spare, you can skip the magic initiate feat and just take 1 level in druid. You won't slow down your slot progression at all, you gain 2 cantrips and an extra 1+wis 1st level spells prepared. And since most of the time a cleric's single best option is to cast bless, the 1 level delay in higher level spells will hardly be noticed.You think Divine Intervention is the only reason to stay pure cleric!? How about your spell progression? Taking one level of druid and delaying your spells by a level just to get a crappy spell like Shillelagh is a horrible choice.

[Hyena]

I don't know, dumping strength doesn't seem like that nice of an idea. I need strength to wear my plate armor - though, I don't actually start with armor. The DM made a point of how rare and expensive it is - only chosen knights and kings can afford it. Taking it of a corpse of some knight seems like a nice idea, but he also uses variant rule from page 144. It seems that I won't get plate armor in a while, so I really, really need this shield of mine in order to survive.
So, from what I understand, I need to take polearm master and sentinel feats. Halberd and glaive, however, are martial weapons and quarterstaff really isn't that good without shillelagh - though, I can wield it with my shield, which is good. More things to spend feats on, I guess.
As of spells, I want to use bless. Got it.

My stats, as rolled, are 17 16 13 12 11 11. I guess, 16 goes for strength, so I can wear plate and have +3 attack bonus. Wisdom is 17, cause I want spells, and all what's left for constitution is 13.


But, I do think it is a little alerting that your DM is mocking you for your character choice. I hope nothing comes of it, but that is one of my 'red flags' that indicate a potential problem from the outset.
Oh yes, he's a complete douche. We know each other for years.

[Sindeloke]

By using Shillelagh, you're sacrificing your bonus action every turn, which you could be using to do much more damage. It's a decidedly mediocre cantrip and is absolutely not worth spending a feat on.

Eh? Shillelagh has a duration of 1 minute, no concentration.

[Strill]

quarterstaff really isn't that good without shillelagh

Nonsense. Since you only have simple melee weapons available, the Quarterstaff is just as good as any of your other options.

[Hyena]

Quarterstaff also lacks reach. Which is, I guess, the main strength of the polearm master feat.

[Strill]

Quarterstaff also lacks reach. Which is, I guess, the main strength of the polearm master feat.

Not at all. The main strength of the Polearm Master feat is that it gives you a reliable bonus-action attack and a reliable reaction attack, potentially tripling your melee damage output.

[Stan]

I need strength to wear my plate armor - though, I don't actually start with armor.

Do you at least get the chain mail that clerics are supposed to start with if they have heavy armor proficiency?

[Hyena]

Yes, I do have all the starting equipment for the first level, which, I suppose, should do for a while, but getting plate must be my first priority.

[DireSickFish]

Quarterstaff also lacks reach. Which is, I guess, the main strength of the polearm master feat.

Reach isn't as important this edition because the enemy only provokes attacks of opportunity when exiting your attack reach unless you have Sentinel. There is a lot you can do with your ASI/Feat option. The extra attack will eat up your bonus action to give more damage output, but you could just cast Spiritual Weapon to use your bonus action to do more damage.

If you want to go full buffer mode all the time then the War Casters advantage on the save is nice, but not mandatory. If the concentration spell is Spirit Guardinal (A lvl3 very strong combat spell) enemies are going to have a hard time just getting to you as it slows there movement and they take damage.

Bless on yourself will give you a +1d4 to the save and help with attack rolls. A solid contender for concentration at all levels especially if you have any monks or dual wielders in the party.

I'd go for the ASI and bump WIS to 18 and CON to 14 instead of taking a feat but I'm a bit feat shy this edition. Making your WIS asap will be helpful for almost all of your spells.

[xyianth]

Why do melee clerics get any less out of it than say, a fighter?

Because they don't have access to the only reach weapons that work with polearm master, thereby reducing the main OA advantage of the feat. Because they know the spell spiritual weapon, which gives a much better, concentration-less, bonus action attack starting at level 3. Because there are more useful feats for a cleric than a fighter and because cleric's have fewer ASIs to spend on them.


It also synergizes very well with Sentinel, letting you stop melee opponents in their tracks before they can even get into melee range.

With what weapon? Life clerics can't use glaives or halberds.


Wisdom isn't the be-all-end-all of the Cleric class. You're going to be casting much fewer offensive spells than other casters, and many of your spells aren't affected by Wisdom at all.

Granted, but it is their most important stat generally. If you are building a cleric and using strength as your primary stat, you ARE better off playing a paladin. No amount of optimization on a cleric will bring them anywhere close to the built-in divine gish that is the paladin. The reason to play a cleric is the spells.


War Caster lets you cast a single-target spell IN PLACE of an opportunity attack. It's not improving your action economy. It's just a mediocre, situational boost to caster cleric damage.

That spell doesn't have to be a cantrip... It only has to be a single target spell. There are situations where this will help you debuff an extra target per round. The least it does is let you inflict cantrip damage in place of an OA. (sacred flame tops out at 4d8, melee OA tops out at 1dX+2d8+mod, the two are roughly equal on melee clerics)


Moreover, you're completely ignoring all of the other benefits Resilient (CON) gives, like +1 CON, or the huge number of deadly debilitating constitution saves which it also protects against.

Furthermore, the two feats absolutely do NOT work together seamlessly. Advantage is worth a +5 bonus if you need to roll an 11 or higher to succeed, but becomes weaker and weaker the better (or worse) your saving throw bonus becomes. When you take Resilient (CON), you lower the marginal benefit of War Caster. Resilient (CON) is necessary to defend against the huge number of save-or-incapacitate effects that fall under constitution. War Caster just gives a minor boost to opportunity attacks, which are a fleetingly rare occurrence. Resilient it is the obvious choice.

This would be why I stated warcaster was better in the early-mid game. Most of the concentration checks you are making during that part of the game are DC 10. This means advantage is providing near maximum potential. For the record, I did account for the +1 con. (that would be the extra +1 if your con score is odd comment) You are correct that resilient does help protect against other con saves though. I stand by my recommendation to take both, with warcaster first for its extra benefits, and resilient later to help account for the increasing DCs of concentration checks (and debilitating saves) in the late game.


By using Shillelagh, you're sacrificing your bonus action every turn, which you could be using to do much more damage. It's a decidedly mediocre cantrip and is absolutely not worth spending a feat on.

No, you are not. Shillelagh is a single bonus action for 10 rounds of effect. And its value is that you don't need to invest ASIs into strength to be viable, freeing them up for feats. (You know, like the resilient, sentinel, and polearm master ones you keep espousing.)


You think Divine Intervention is the only reason to stay pure cleric!? How about your spell progression? Taking one level of druid and delaying your spells by a level just to get a crappy spell like Shillelagh is a horrible choice.

For most situations, the best concentration limited spell for a cleric to use is bless. Bless is a 1st level spell, if it says cleric on your character sheet, you know it. Dipping druid doesn't delay your access to it or its scaling since it doesn't delay your slot progression. It does save you one of your 5 ASIs if (and I stress if) you want shillelagh on a non-nature cleric. This isn't 3.5, debuffs and damage dealing spells don't have to be max level spells to be effective in 5e. In my experience, 1st through 3rd level spells are the workhorses of casters in 5e, with the caster's scaling up the effects by slot as needed. This is even more true for clerics than other casters, given the potency of some of their lowest level spells. I stand by my statement that the delay in higher level spells (not slots) will hardly be noticed, and that divine intervention is worth less than the ink used to print it into the book. (I really hate that feature, in case that wasn't obvious...)

And a druid dip also frees up some prepared spell slots for other cleric spells. (You can prepare healing word as a druid, freeing up the slot for other cleric spells for example.) Adding entangle, faerie fire, goodberry, longstrider, and thunderwave to your spell list is also a great benefit. Although minor, learning druidic might be a nice boon to have for RP reasons. A druid dip is more than just shillelagh, and imho, a druid dip costs a cleric less than the magic initiate feat does.

[SharkForce]

you don't need reach for polearm master to be effective. polearm master builds use glaives and halberds because they do more damage, not because they have reach.

in fact, i'm afb, but doesn't polearm master only give an OA when an enemy moves adjacent to you, making reach do absolutely nothing to help it?

the way it works with sentinel is simple.

an enemy approaches you. as it is about to become adjacent, you get an opportunity attack from polearm master. with sentinel, if you hit with that opportunity attack, they cannot move. thus, they are stopped just before they can reach you. it is your enemy, not you, that will feel the lack of reach weapons.

(granted, it all feels a bit silly when you're wielding a staff in a single hand like that, but it is technically rules-legal).

[xyianth]

you don't need reach for polearm master to be effective. polearm master builds use glaives and halberds because they do more damage, not because they have reach.

in fact, i'm afb, but doesn't polearm master only give an OA when an enemy moves adjacent to you, making reach do absolutely nothing to help it?

the way it works with sentinel is simple.

an enemy approaches you. as it is about to become adjacent, you get an opportunity attack from polearm master. with sentinel, if you hit with that opportunity attack, they cannot move. thus, they are stopped just before they can reach you. it is your enemy, not you, that will feel the lack of reach weapons.

(granted, it all feels a bit silly when you're wielding a staff in a single hand like that, but it is technically rules-legal).

Hmm, that is not how I read the ability. I read it as providing you the ability to make an OA on an enemy that enters your reach. This is an explicit exception to the general 'OAs interrupt movement' rule, and instead triggers after they enter your reach. If your reach is 10', that means they are 10' away. If your reach is 5', they are already adjacent. If this wasn't the case, and the OA triggered prior to the movement, your OA with a 5' reach weapon would be against a target 10' away. (this is known as a miss :smalltongue:) Sentinel still works with polearm master just fine, but only to stop them moving after your OA, so to prevent them getting adjacent, you need the reach weapon.

If this is wrong, then I take back most of what I said about polearm master. (I don't think it is though) I still think 1d4+mods is worse than 1d8+mods (and 20' free movement) but with polearm master you spare a spell slot each fight.

[SharkForce]

well, i'm not going to try to argue that spirit weapon isn't good (because it really is), but polearm master is quite good too. and the feat does explicitly give you an OA for someone moving adjacent to you, and OAs interrupt things, so...

[Submortimer]

Hmm, that is not how I read the ability. I read it as providing you the ability to make an OA on an enemy that enters your reach. This is an explicit exception to the general 'OAs interrupt movement' rule, and instead triggers after they enter your reach. If your reach is 10', that means they are 10' away. If your reach is 5', they are already adjacent. If this wasn't the case, and the OA triggered prior to the movement, your OA with a 5' reach weapon would be against a target 10' away. (this is known as a miss :smalltongue:) Sentinel still works with polearm master just fine, but only to stop them moving after your OA, so to prevent them getting adjacent, you need the reach weapon.

If this is wrong, then I take back most of what I said about polearm master. (I don't think it is though) I still think 1d4+mods is worse than 1d8+mods (and 20' free movement) but with polearm master you spare a spell slot each fight.

This is more or less correct. PM allows you to get that sweet, sweet OA at 10' reach. Coupled with Sentinel, this is how you lock someone down before they can get to you, by hitting them in the face with your Halberd at 10 ft' and reducing their movement speed to 0 ft.

[Shining Wrath]

This is more or less correct. PM allows you to get that sweet, sweet OA at 10' reach. Coupled with Sentinel, this is how you lock someone down before they can get to you, by hitting them in the face with your Halberd at 10 ft' and reducing their movement speed to 0 ft.

Probably more important: this is how a Life Cleric in heavy armor with almost at-will self healing shuts down a 25' wide area and prevents the baddies from reaching the squishy people in the back, causing wizards and sorcerers and most warlocks to love the Life Cleric with Sentinel with a deep and abiding love.

[Icewraith]

Probably more important: this is how a Life Cleric in heavy armor with almost at-will self healing shuts down a 25' wide area and prevents the baddies from reaching the squishy people in the back, causing wizards and sorcerers and most warlocks to love the Life Cleric with Sentinel with a deep and abiding love.

How does he stop the second monster?

Edit: Also, the discussion on melee vs cantrips is lacking in one department. The melee attack is against AC while the cantrip forces a Dex save (for half?). Bless helps your attacks just as much as anyone elses, but doesn't do anything to increase you saving throw DCs. Also, with melee, you're rolling to attack the DM's characters while with saves the DM is rolling against your save DC. It seems like an obvious distinction, but when it's your primary method of offense it may matter to you whose d20 determines the success of your attacks, yours or the DM's?

(Not in a cheating sort of way, mind.)

[xyianth]

Probably more important: this is how a Life Cleric in heavy armor with almost at-will self healing shuts down a 25' wide area and prevents the baddies from reaching the squishy people in the back, causing wizards and sorcerers and most warlocks to love the Life Cleric with Sentinel with a deep and abiding love.

Again, with what weapon? Life clerics have simple weapons only. There are no polearms with reach that are simple weapons. You can certainly shut down 1 monster per round within a 15' wide zone by taking polearm master and sentinel and using a quarterstaff. That monster will just focus on you instead. (since it would be adjacent to you) The only way you are extending that to 25' and keeping them away from you is by spending another feat on weapon proficiencies or dipping a class that grants them. So it's a trick that either requires multiclassing or 3 of your 5 ASIs.

Now, compare the same Life cleric that uses spiritual weapon and spirit guardians. This cleric has a 15' zone of automatic damage and a slow effect that is not limited to 1/turn. This cleric has his normal attack (+divine strike) and a bonus action attack (based on wisdom) that can move an additional 20' each round. This is possible without spending any ASIs or multiclassing at all.

[Shining Wrath]

Again, with what weapon? Life clerics have simple weapons only. There are no polearms with reach that are simple weapons. You can certainly shut down 1 monster per round within a 15' wide zone by taking polearm master and sentinel and using a quarterstaff. That monster will just focus on you instead. (since it would be adjacent to you) The only way you are extending that to 25' and keeping them away from you is by spending another feat on weapon proficiencies or dipping a class that grants them. So it's a trick that either requires multiclassing or 3 of your 5 ASIs.

Now, compare the same Life cleric that uses spiritual weapon and spirit guardians. This cleric has a 15' zone of automatic damage and a slow effect that is not limited to 1/turn. This cleric has his normal attack (+divine strike) and a bonus action attack (based on wisdom) that can move an additional 20' each round. This is possible without spending any ASIs or multiclassing at all.

OK, he needs to pick up pole arms somewhere. Probably a dip.

[Myzz]

Thank all of you for your advice.
I've decided that I want to be a life cleric - heavy armor sold it to me. My DM mocks me for deciding to be a glorified healbot and buff-dispenser, his reasoning for calling cleric a weak class for melee is that
1) Heavy armor makes him slow, which makes retreat an impossible option.
2) Concentration mechanic causes him to lose buffs when hit.
3) He doesn't have that many offensive spells, and his weapon skills are inferior to paladin or fighter.
Is he wrong? If yes, why?

Also, you've said that warcaster is needed for light clerics. What about life? I've thought it would be more important for them, since they wield weapons and make concentration checks all the time, which warcaster feat helps them with.

1. Can you go Dwarf? Speed will be 25, regardless of Heavy Armor, instead of 20. AND allows you to dump strength with no movement penalty for wearing Heavy Armor. The lowering of speed only occurs when your Str score does not meet or exceed the score for that type of armor. <Hill Dwarf auto nets you an extra HP per level and gives ya +1 Wis, while mountain gives ya +2 Str, both give poison adv and resist as well as +2 con. Allowing you to use a lower stat for Con and reap some benefits>

2. Resilient Con will give you proficiency with ALL Constitution checks to help. Or Warcaster will give you advantage on concentration checks from damage.

3. Can you Multi-Class? a 2 or 3 level warlock dip could fix up offensive ability at range. As could the magic Initiate Feat (for damage cantrips). Cleric Cantrip Sacred Flame kind of sucks (the Tempest Cleric has yet to hit anything with it in HoTDQ that I'm playing in, so many good dex saves). Guiding Bolt on the other hand (L1) is awesome, and will be your at range damage leveled spell (like magic missile for wizards). Spiritual weapon (L2) is a decent continuting damaging spell used on your bonus action without costing concentration. Both those spells rank up using higher level slots. You don't get any decent attack spell at 3rd unless you count glyph of warding which is too expensive to use all the time, AND Spriit Guardians which is essentially the only AE spell you have and is pretty decent but does burn your concentration and a L3+ slot.

If it was me, I'd go Hill Dwarf Life Cleric, dump Str probably to 10 (which allows you to carry 150 pounds of stuff, you are wearing Heavy Armor after all). And then either pick up 1 level of Druid/Sorcerer/Bard/Wiz or 2 or 3 levels of Warlock or Take the Magic Initiate Feat in order to get more damaging cantrips. Cleric has a dex based one, I'd get an AC targeting one and a will or con based one (ex = Thorn Whip<AC>, Flamebolt<AC>, poison spray<con>, shocking grasp<melee AC>, eldritch blast<AC>, Vicious Mockery <wis>, Ray of Frost <AC>, Chill Touch<AC>). I'd likely dip a class vice getting the feat since I would want Heavy Armor Master and WarCaster feats...

Stats: Wis>Cha>Con>Int>Str>Dex if your dipping wiz or using Magic initiate to grab wiz spells, then swap cha and int, if going druid then swap con and cha. I put Cha second since it leaves so many options available.

Playstyle would be hang back and blast, but able to run up and fill any breaches or heal without too much worry. Grab a shield and your AC is super high so you don't have to worry too much about ranged attacks either. Grab L1 Shield Spell from Magic Initiate or your dip, for a reflex action boost when you do get hit!

Obviously if you want to stand up front and swing toe to toe with the melee's none of this was helpfull

[Hyena]

Okay, thank all of you for your help. Now my build is almost finished - it mostly boils down to feat choice. It's here, if you're wondering. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N8Mz2GnMwCZ6denplg3biQ44CMJi0T5FdWvfKR35hEY/edit)

[ZenBear]

TBH neither feat is all that useful to you. Your STR is high enough to not need Sha-la-la, and going up to d8 instead of d6 is a minuscule improvement not worth the feat. Better option would be a +2 to STR, CON or WIS (in that order) or rounding out your DEX and INT with +1s.
IMHO

[Hyena]

From a purely combat perspective, yes, that would be really helpful. However, I want to either get my cleric martial weapons in order to show his (her?) connection to nobility, which is all about longswords and not so much about hand axes, or pick up goodberries, so I can feed the poor and downtrodden (and the party, who might also count as poor and downtrodden) with level 1 slots as opposed to level 3. Shill.. Shile... Shilelala... Schyamalan is just a bonus that allows me to keep up with martial weapons that I might have chosen otherwise.

The thing is, in this setting my cleric is the only cleric in the world, period. My quest is to bring my god back to life and effectively start my religion anew (there's also a thing about preventing apocalypse), so things like goodberries really help. Feeding the hungry and healing the sick is basically the best possible way I can go. I think.

[Myzz]

From a purely combat perspective, yes, that would be really helpful. However, I want to either get my cleric martial weapons in order to show his (her?) connection to nobility, which is all about longswords and not so much about hand axes, or pick up goodberries, so I can feed the poor and downtrodden (and the party, who might also count as poor and downtrodden) with level 1 slots as opposed to level 3. Shill.. Shile... Shilelala... Schyamalan is just a bonus that allows me to keep up with martial weapons that I might have chosen otherwise.

The thing is, in this setting my cleric is the only cleric in the world, period. My quest is to bring my god back to life and effectively start my religion anew (there's also a thing about preventing apocalypse), so things like goodberries really help. Feeding the hungry and healing the sick is basically the best possible way I can go. I think.

In that role, I'd argue combat should be the last thing on your mind. And your charisma should be much higher! Your going to be THE leader of a Faith. YOU are going to be the FACE for a deity in that world! Strength AND Constitution do not help you in that regard.

I'm going to assume there are lots of high strength high con dudes in the world, so you wont stick out and impress in that regard... even in shiny armor... If there are no clerics, I'm guessing its a fairly low magic world... IF so then you would want to be more of a castery guy to awe onlookers and such...

I'd actually recommend going Life Cleric/Celestial Warlock Homebrew based off Fiend, or Life Cleric Archfey warlock if your Deity could be construed to be an Archfey... Or Great Old One if he is a long lost forgotten Deity... Refluff all the stuff to fit the cleric theme.

Barring that even Lore Bard might be a decent option, gives you spells to dazzle the masses... and can pick up expertise Persuasion or Performance... depending on how your DM wants your sermons and such to go... Persuasion being more usefull to get people to join your cause!

[Hyena]

Charisma is really nice, but combat will be absolutely brutal, as told me by DM, and if I die, the world doesn't get a second cleric. So, I really need all the power I can get. I got charisma as high as I can without gimping myself, which... Isn't really high.
On the other hand, I can buff my persuasion checks with guidance.

World is somewhat low magic - there are wizards, sorcerers and other guys, even paladins, but they aren't everywhere and no clerics existed for centuries. DM told me that I can successfuly pass as a wizard - but people trained in arcane can easily tell that there's something weird about my spellcasting.
On that matter, my god is really, really unpopular. In fact, world's dominant religion uses him as a scapegoat for everything and Satan-like figure.

Oh, and DM disallowed refluffing. If I'm a cleric, I'm a cleric. Not a paladin, bard or warlock.

[Myzz]

Charisma is really nice, but combat will be absolutely brutal, as told me by DM, and if I die, the world doesn't get a second cleric. So, I really need all the power I can get. I got charisma as high as I can without gimping myself, which... Isn't really high.
On the other hand, I can buff my persuasion checks with guidance.

Surrounding yourself with followers to take those blows for you, who you can raise from the dead... much more impressive!

[ZenBear]

I can appreciate taking suboptimal feats for the sake of character background. I don't think having a longsword is all that necessary to being a noble and iirc clerics get access to Create Food and Water as a ritual? (AFB) Another option to get that sword is to take Fighter at level 1 if multiclassing is allowed.

[Hyena]

Doesn't multiclassing as a fighter hinder my spell progression? If there is one thing I learned about DnD, it's that thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels.

And no, create food and water is not a ritual. Purify food and water, however, is.

[ZenBear]

Doesn't multiclassing as a fighter hinder my spell progression? If there is one thing I learned about DnD, it's that thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels.

And no, create food and water is not a ritual. Purify food and water, however, is.

Yes, but a single level doesn't hurt that much. It's only at level 20 that you miss out on a single L9 spell slot (you still get L9 spells) and Improved Divine Intervention, which is essentially another spell slot. Worth it, IMO. This way you can go standard Human for +1 to all stats since you already have CON save proficiency and by 5th level you get your ASI so you can take Magic Initiate for Goodberry. I still think Shalala is a waste, I suggest you pick a different cantrip.

I'm honestly surprised. Create Food and Water has been a cleric spell since the beginning. Obvious reference to Jesus and all that.

[xyianth]

I can see two different builds that will work quite well for your concept, depending on whether you want to prioritize strength or wisdom.

Strength:
Take your first level as fighter, then 19 levels of life cleric. By starting as a fighter, you basically get the resilient(con) feat for free and you get a fighting style, second wind, and martial weapons. You can then spend your human(variant) feat on something else. (lots of options have been discussed already in this thread) You will delay access to all your spells by 1 level, and at level 20, you will miss out on your 2nd 7th level slot per day. You will also never get improved divine intervention. Since you are probably going to want to max your strength, you will need 2 ASIs for strength boosts, leaving you 3 for other feats that interest you. (or other stats)

Wisdom:
Take your first level as a life cleric, then take 1 level as a druid, followed by 18 more levels of life cleric. You can keep resilient(con) as your bonus human feat. When you take your druid level, you learn all the 1st level druid spells and gain 2 druid cantrips.(shillelagh + whatever you want) You continue to gain spell slots as if you were a single-classed cleric, so you don't lose out on any spell slots by level 20. The druid level only delays access to higher level cleric spells by 1 level, you can still cast a heightened version of a lower level spell as needed from higher level slots. The only feature this costs you is improved divine intervention. Since you only need 1 ASI to max your wisdom, you have 4 others to spend on other stats or feats as you like. You won't need to use magic initiate on druid casting.

You could mix the two builds as well, starting as a fighter, taking a level in druid, then finishing with 18 levels of life cleric. It wouldn't really save you an ASI though, since you would lose the one you get at cleric 19.

[Hyena]

I love playing this character. Yes, I really do. True, his martial ability is not the same as before - he can't really hold a candle to our party monk, not to mention surpassing him in terms of damage, but he can stand his ground, and despite DM repeatedly mocking me for going into melee, I never was really in danger of dying, despite last two encounters having "Deadly" level of CR, and my heals saved a quite a few of lives.
Though his spell list is somewhat lacking compared to 3.5 (well, we didn't have that many splatbooks yet), he's got some very solid spells. Let me tell you the most awesome moments of this character.

1) Me and the rogue are alone against two ghouls (I think? They were some sort of undead). We beat them easily, cue to five more appearing and surrounding my comrade, doing some serious damage to him - and paralyzing him too. Luckily, I've had my Channel Divinity unused, one Turn Undead later the monsters flee, and we manage to survive.
2) Three rounds later, we meet up with the rest of our party and encounter a huge undead monstrosity (actually, a refluffed hezrou). Our sorcerer proceeds to read the ritual from the book that should destroy the creature, while me, the monk and the rogue (all about to half of our HP) try and hold the line. Luckily, I've had Bestow Curse prepared, and let me tell you - hezrou turned out not to have a good enough wisdom save.
3) Basically, the very beginning of the campaign - we meet werewolves, who attack us. Luckily, that Remove Curse spell I've had prepared was really, really handy - luckily, it doesn't allow a save. One of them even turns out to be not a cultist, but a bitten peasant woman, who's still traveling with the party as of this moment.

Thank you, everybody, for your help with the build.

[ZenBear]

Glad you're having fun! :)
So what build did you end up going with?

[Hyena]

Well, I've always thought that ranged combat is for cowards, so it's melee all the way. I've kept strength just high enough to wear plate without penalties, but my main attacking stat is wisdom, thanks to shillelagh spell.