Before you reply with "Ask your DM"

[Dalebert]

Yes. We know. It gets posted so much that it's a broken record. It's been pounded into our heads that it's up to the DM. Conceded that it's often an appropriate part of a response in the RAW thread, but elsewhere most questions are not simple RAW questions.

The designers of 5e, in all their wisdom, decided to leave umpteen-bajillion vaguely-worded rules up to DM fiat. I hear they thought it would mean less arguing. (lol) If someone posts something here on one of the umpteen-bajillion subjects for which the rules are vague to some degree or another, it's probably because they want feedback from the GitP community.

Maybe the question is from a DM who wants guidance about how to decide. Maybe the question is from a player who wants some criteria to aid in a discussion with their DM.

Regardless, if you find yourself about to say "Ask your DM", consider instead sharing a more substantial response that includes your thoughts and opinions on the subject. That's likely what the OP wanted. If you still feel it necessary, may I suggest prefacing your response with something less dismissive like "Obviously it's up to your DM, but..."

NOTE: This post edited in response to feedback so folks won't necessarily have to read the whole thread to get to the substance. If you want to see the original post, SiuiS kindly quoted it a few posts down.

[Kryx]

Hear, here!
We come here for different opinions, not to read "ask your DM".

Though many do need to be told it as their questions are campaign specific.

[hymer]

Regardless, imagine the question reworded -- "How would you handle this vaguely-worded atrocity if you were the DM and why?"

Sorry, but I can't agree with you. I don't think assuming that the question is something different than what it says is very helpful. This being a forum, a question can be clarified. After the 'Ask your DM' answer, the questioner, should it be needed, can clarify and ask 'I am the DM. How would you handle it?'

[SiuiS]

Yes. We know. We know that it's ultimately up to our DMs. Acknowledged it's often an appropriate part of the response in the RAW threads. However...

The designers of 5e, in all their wisdom, decided to leave umpteen-bajillion vaguely-worded rules up to DM fiat. I hear they thought it would mean less arguing. (lol) If someone posts something here on one of the umpteen-bajillion subjects for which the rules are vague it's probably because they want feedback from the GitP community.

Maybe the question is from a DM who wants guidance about how to decide. Maybe the question is from a player who wants some criteria to aid in a discussion with their DM.

Regardless, imagine the question reworded -- "How would you handle this vaguely-worded atrocity if you were the DM and why?"

The problem is that most D&D players only play D&D. This cannt be said for the same amount of D&D adjudicators – some DMs are also GMs or OMs or MCs.

Ask your DM because 5e is built with much less legalese, just like almost every single other game on the market and they all do fine by allowing the DM to make decisions for their own games, and those DMs are more likely to have experience with other games or at least with theory from other games, unless they are only DM because they drew the short straw or whatever.

That's the theory.

The issue with getting concrete opinions is; what are you doing with my opinion? Most people are collecting data with which to argue with the DM. I do not want my well-intentioned diatribe of something to be misused to actively cull creativity in the DM's chair. So I will continue saying "ask your DM", because the alternative is selling you ammo and not asking if you plan to ever shoot it or what at.



Now, of course, this is very broad. The question becomes, if you are the DM, why not give that information? It's easy to start a thread saying you're looking for ideas, inspiration or interpretation. That's an entirely different Kettle of fish compared to a question of how this one things works in this one game or in general.

[calebrus]

Ask your DM because 5e is built with much less legalese, just like almost every single other game on the market

This.
A thousand times, this.
I love D&D. It was my first TTRPG, and it will always hold a special place in my heart because of that. But I pretty much despise the rules lawyers that it has produced. Those types are almost non-existent in other RPGs, but they seem to be the most abundant type of D&D players.

If ever you have any question whatsoever about how something in an RPG works, the correct response is *always* going to be "Ask your GM."
If you are the GM in question, ask yourself what you think the writers were trying to get across with the rule. If there is more than one possible answer to that, use the one that makes logical sense and doesn't break anything.
That's your answer. Every time.
If you are the player in question, save yourself some time and do the same, and you'll likely come to the correct answer that your GM will provide.

RAI trumps RAW
RAW is really only a term that gets used for D&D. It doesn't get thrown around in other games like it does in D&D discussions.

So once again, Ask Your DM.

[pwykersotz]

Yes. We know. We know that it's ultimately up to our DMs. Acknowledged it's often an appropriate part of the response in the RAW threads. However...

The designers of 5e, in all their wisdom, decided to leave umpteen-bajillion vaguely-worded rules up to DM fiat. I hear they thought it would mean less arguing. (lol) If someone posts something here on one of the umpteen-bajillion subjects for which the rules are vague it's probably because they want feedback from the GitP community.

Maybe the question is from a DM who wants guidance about how to decide. Maybe the question is from a player who wants some criteria to aid in a discussion with their DM.

Regardless, imagine the question reworded -- "How would you handle this vaguely-worded atrocity if you were the DM and why?"

{scrubbed}

I understand the vexation, but you have to take things into context as well. The phrase "ask your GM" bears repeating so often because of several reasons. It's easily forgotten as readers who are more familiar with older editions come over and don't understand the paradigm. It's a useful response to overly reaching rules-lawyers who want to conjure dark matter. It serves as a grounding point and a reminder, even to those of us who know the information, lest we get too wrapped up in nitpicking rules and forget this is a social game.

I myself will always try to respond usefully to questions that I think I might have an actual answer to, but don't think that just because you don't like a certain answer and post your vexations that the answer will cease. That way lies madness on this forum. I get just as eye-rollingly annoyed when people post bizarre RAW logic, but it's not going to stop. Just roll with it.

[Dalebert]

Summary for TL;DR folks--Unless it's in the RAW thread, most posts should not be considered RAW questions. By default they should be considered "what's your opinion on this?" types of questions. Thus "Ask your DM" is dismissive and condescending.


Ask your DM because 5e is built with much less legalese, just like almost every single other game on the market and they all do fine by allowing the DM to make decisions for their own games, and those DMs are more likely to have experience with other games or at least with theory from other games, unless they are only DM because they drew the short straw or whatever.

The point is "Ask your DM" almost never needs to be said. It's so obvious as to be condescending to say. Often times when it's said, it's making the ridiculous assumption that every post is a RAW question when only the posts in the RAW thread should be presumed to be such.

This will probably at some point break down into an argument about whether the looser approach in 5e was good or bad. That's fine. But I'm going to put off that discussion for the moment and say it doesn't matter for the sake of my point of creating this thread. For better or worse, the designers chose the route of keeping things looser so there are a lot of decisions that have to be made.


The issue with getting concrete opinions is; what are you doing with my opinion? Most people are collecting data with which to argue with the DM. I do not want my well-intentioned diatribe of something to be misused to actively cull creativity in the DM's chair. So I will continue saying "ask your DM", because the alternative is selling you ammo and not asking if you plan to ever shoot it or what at.

Comparing your opinions to ammo as if this were a war and not a game seems a little hyperbolic. Sharing opinions and creativity is the whole point of this forum. It's simply a resource and various players and DMs will hopefully assign appropriate value to what you say based on its merit.


Now, of course, this is very broad. The question becomes, if you are the DM, why not give that information? It's easy to start a thread saying you're looking for ideas, inspiration or interpretation. That's an entirely different Kettle of fish compared to a question of how this one things works in this one game or in general.

Right. I'm saying that's the reasonable default interpretation of most posts here UNLESS it's in the RAW thread. It should not have to be clarified every time just as "ask your DM" is obvious and should not have to be repeated in response to every question (that's not in the RAW thread).


Ooh, my bluetext comment in another thread ruffled some feathers. :smallamused:

Not at all! I loved it because you were poking fun at what a pointless and empty response that is. What got me was when someone followed up with exactly what you were joking about.

[pwykersotz]

Not at all! I loved it because you were poking fun at what a pointless and empty response that is. What got me was when someone followed up with exactly what you were joking about.

Ah, good times then. :smallsmile:

[Galen]

I disagree with the OP. "Ask your DM" is the default in this particular edition. Some question-askers here seem to be unaware of this mindset, and it can't hurt to remind them.

[Pex]

The problem is that most D&D players only play D&D. This cannt be said for the same amount of D&D adjudicators – some DMs are also GMs or OMs or MCs.

Ask your DM because 5e is built with much less legalese, just like almost every single other game on the market and they all do fine by allowing the DM to make decisions for their own games, and those DMs are more likely to have experience with other games or at least with theory from other games, unless they are only DM because they drew the short straw or whatever.

That's the theory.

The issue with getting concrete opinions is; what are you doing with my opinion? Most people are collecting data with which to argue with the DM. I do not want my well-intentioned diatribe of something to be misused to actively cull creativity in the DM's chair. So I will continue saying "ask your DM", because the alternative is selling you ammo and not asking if you plan to ever shoot it or what at.



Now, of course, this is very broad. The question becomes, if you are the DM, why not give that information? It's easy to start a thread saying you're looking for ideas, inspiration or interpretation. That's an entirely different Kettle of fish compared to a question of how this one things works in this one game or in general.

What of the players who come here asking questions looking for answers just so they can tell the DM because it's the player, not the DM, who bothers to read gaming forums such as these seeking answers? What of players who are also DMs in group that interchange the role with different campaigns? Why assume the worst in people who come here asking questions to learn how certain game functions work?

[Laurefindel]

"Ask your DM" in the opening or ending of a post simply means the poster acknowledges that it 1) doesn't hold the absolute truth and 2) doesn't know the whole context of the game/group/situation. It is not the only way to convey that but in the end, it only a way not to come as an arrogant prick. I agree that the post should have some substance though

Even if RPGs don't have the same impact as health, "I would do X but ask your DM" isn't that different from "I would take X but ask your doctor".

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Summary for TL;DR folks--Unless it's in the RAW thread, most posts should not be considered RAW questions. By default they should be considered "what's your opinion on this?" types of questions. Thus "Ask your DM" is dismissive and condescending.

It's the DM's opinion that matters, though. Especially on unclear issues where reasonable arguments can be made both ways. Thus, the most important thing a player can do is get the DM's opinion. Now, if they want to ask 'Is the DM's opinion wrong//bad for the game?' - that's a discussion. But if you don't know what the DM's ruling is, further discussion is often fruitless and pointless.

[Knaight]

The big thing with "Ask your DM" is that it assumes that any given poster isn't the DM of the game. While the DM:player ratio is somewhat above 1:1 (how much above on average is unknown, though the game is clearly made for 1:3-6), we're on an RPG forum. This isn't exactly a representative cross section of D&D 5e players* here, and given that it pulls disproportionately from those more into the hobby, I'd expect DMs to be dramatically overrepresented. This gets even truer when you consider that a lot of groups shift who the DM is between games, so a number of people in the group at least DM sometimes. Odds are good that most people posting at least sometimes DM.

As such, assuming that questions are coming from that perspective, and that the subtext is less "how should my DM handle this" and more "what's the best way to interpret this somewhat vague rule" or even "what are the designers actually trying to do with this". While it has been pointed out upthread that 5e being less legalistic is like a great deal of other RPGs, it is worth noting that a lot of RPGs, particularly rules light ones, will have sidebars or other text explicitly explaining why they did things a particular way. The design process behind 5e is actually comparatively concealed, the goals aren't all that explicit, so on and so forth.

*In the sense that includes DMs; as opposed to the sense the rest of the post is using it in.

[WickerNipple]

The problem with 'Ask your DM' as a forum reply is it contains zero information.

That reply could pertain to absolutely every question ever asked, therefore it is utterly useless to say and a waste of time and space.

If that is all you have to say on the subject you might as well not reply at all.

[Laurefindel]

The big thing with "Ask your DM" is that it assumes that any given poster isn't the DM of the game.

I believe it is the responsibility of the original poster to state the facts clearly and among which, whether that person is the DM and needs advice, or needs to know if there is a RaW answer to an ambiguous rule, or if that person is a player who needs advice before asking its DM, or has already asked its DM and that DM didn't know, or disagreed with the player...

Without clear facts we are obliged to make assumptions, but in no cases will I assume that my opinion would weight more that that of the game's referee.

I do agree with the fact that all players (DM included) contribute equally to the enjoyment of the hobby and that "ask your players" is just as a good answer as "ask your DM"

[McBars]

The problem with 'Ask your DM' as a forum reply is it contains zero information.

That reply could pertain to absolutely every question ever asked, therefore it is utterly useless to say and a waste of time and space.

If that is all you have to say on the subject you might as well not reply at all.

Oh except for when it is the best answer to a given question. If that makes you so angry, just keep asking till you get the answer you were looking for in the first place.

[Mr.Moron]

The problem with 'Ask your DM' as a forum reply is it contains zero information.

That reply could pertain to absolutely every question ever asked, therefore it is utterly useless to say and a waste of time and space.

If that is all you have to say on the subject you might as well not reply at all.

No. It conveys the information "This person thinks this is subjective and important enough that only the person running the game is really qualified to give a relevant opinion. They are stating that seeking the input of a 3rd party only serves to muddy the issue or potentially create conflict.", or something roughly along those lines.

If a subject gets a lot of these replies it might an indicator that's a good perspective to take. If you get 30 replies saying "Ask your GM" and 3 advocating a specific interpretation you can take that as a hint that maybe those interpretations are extreme or at least controversial.

[FightStyles]

Well, I asked my DM if asking the DM is a fair response. He said, "Asking the DM is a matter that should already have been done. Therefore, you probably don't need to remind the OP that they need to ask their DM."

So I asked the DM if I should refrain from reminding them to ask their DM then. He said, "You can and should remind them, but realize they are most likely looking for a discussion on the subject matter and therefore should submit your thoughts on the matter along with asking them to ask their DM."

I then asked the DM if I should stop talking to myself. He replied, "You're the DM, you can do what you want."

[pwykersotz]

Well, I asked my DM if asking the DM is a fair response. He said, "Asking the DM is a matter that should already have been done. Therefore, you probably don't need to remind the OP that they need to ask their DM."

So I asked the DM if I should refrain from reminding them to ask their DM then. He said, "You can and should remind them, but realize they are most likely looking for a discussion on the subject matter and therefore should submit your thoughts on the matter along with asking them to ask their DM."

I then asked the DM if I should stop talking to myself. He replied, "You're the DM, you can do what you want."

:polite applause:

[Demonslayer666]

Just because "ask your DM" doesn't provide any additional information to you, doesn't mean it doesn't provide needed information to the one posting the question, and likewise doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.

If the RAW does not provide a definitive answer, it is up to the DM. How others handle it is superfluous information. If you want to know how others handle it, then ask that instead of how does X work.

[Broken Twin]

If nobody has yet said it in the thread, then "Ask your DM" can be a worthwhile reply. If six other people have already said it... not so much.

Either way, I think everyone would benefit from a "You should ask your DM, but in my opinion, -insert response-."

[Garimeth]

If nobody has yet said it in the thread, then "Ask your DM" can be a worthwhile reply. If six other people have already said it... not so much.

Either way, I think everyone would benefit from a "You should ask your DM, but in my opinion, -insert response-."

This. ^

Also, I agree with Knaight, I think a rather large portion of us are DMs, if I were to post a thread asking for opinions, its probably because I, the DM, have not made up my mind yet on something and am curious what others think.

Also, I agree with Findel that the poster should state the details as clearly as possible - so people responding know whether the poster IS or ISN'T the DM.

[FightStyles]

:polite applause:

Q: Why did you put that in colons?

Correct A: Ask your DM.

Better Correct A: Placing the colon's around a noun is to make it appear that the noun between the colon's is an emoji. However, not all sites use these rules to create emojis so you should ask your DM.

*DM here stands for domain moderator (even if it doesn't make perfect sense)

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Posters are permitted to post as they like within the Forum Rules. Please don't try to regulate, moderate, or otherwise tell other posters what our how to post/not post.

If something violates the Forum Rules, please report it.