Barbarian and Haste

[Uthgar21]

If a fellow adventurer cast a haste in a Barbarian Berseker path 5th level, then that Barbarian with Extra Attack and Frenzy can attack 6 times in every turn?


P.S. Plz say yes!!! :P

[calebrus]

P.S. Plz say yes!!! :P

No.

Attack (1), extra attack feature (+1), Frenzy bonus action attack (+1), Haste one single melee attack (+1) = Four (4)

[Galen]

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[Tenmujiin]

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I din't think he realises that bonus actions are 1/round so he is including an off hand attack.

[Gnomes2169]

I din't think he realises that bonus actions are 1/round so he is including an off hand attack.

Which would still only get him to 5. I'm guessing that he's more likely thinking of the 2e haste that doubles your attacks/ round.

[Naanomi]

A hasted dual wielding fighter can get up to 6 attacks/round. Some fighter/bard might get even more with the right ranged attack and support spells (I'm AFB and don't remember specific levels)

[Slipperychicken]

I din't think he realises that bonus actions are 1/round so he is including an off hand attack.

I think he didn't read Haste properly, and thought it gave him both a whole attack action and another bonus action.

[Uthgar21]

{scrubbed}
{scrubbed} Normally I have attack action (1), extra attack (2) which is not noted as a bonus action and a frenzy attack (3) which is a bonus action.With haste I have one extra action so one more attack action (4) and more extra attack (5) since its a normal action and not a bonus one.But I cant use frenzy since I already have used my bonus action for this round, which was my 6th.So in my point of view 5 seems legit.
{scrubbed}

[calebrus]

Normally I have attack action (1), extra attack (2) which is not noted as a bonus action and a frenzy attack (3) which is a bonus action.With haste I have one extra action so one more attack action (4) and more extra attack (5) since its a normal action and not a bonus one.But I cant use frenzy since I already have used my bonus action for this round, which was my 6th.So in my point of view 5 seems legit.

Except Haste doesn't give you an extra attack action. Haste gives you one single weapon attack, which means the extra attack feature doesn't apply, because you aren't taking another attack action, you are taking one single extra weapon attack.

If you are hastened, when you take the Attack action, you get two attacks for the first one, and then apply any features such as extra attack and/or frenzy, etc.
So with your example, taking the attack action while hastened grants your normal attack, and then you get one more for having 5 barb levels (making two), and then another one for being hastened (making three), and then an optional bonus attack action for raging with frenzy (making four).
You're only taking the Attack action once, so Extra Attack only applies once.

If you were a barb 5/fighter 2, you would get:
one for attacking (1)
one for barb 5 extra attack (2)
one for haste (3)
one bonus action for frenzy (4)
two more for action surge, which is another attack action (+1) with extra attack (+1) (making 6 total once per short rest). In this case, Action Surge allows you to take the Attack action twice, so Extra Attack applies to both of them. But Haste still only allows one single extra weapon attack on your turn (so you still only get one Haste attack).

Make sense now?

[Gnomes2169]

A hasted dual wielding fighter can get up to 6 attacks/round. Some fighter/bard might get even more with the right ranged attack and support spells (I'm AFB and don't remember specific levels)

The level 5 spell Swift Quiver is what you are looking for here, and you can get that at bard 10 due to magical secrets.

However, this will limit you to 5 attacks/ round if you go with the valor bard and get haste (4 with the lore bard), which you could just as easily get on a fighter with TWF, polearm master, crossbow expert or a speed weapon once you reach level 20 without haste. That fighter will also be getting off 9 attacks with an action surge (again, without even touching haste) twice per short rest, while your valor/ lore bard multiclassing fighter will be able to action surge for 7/5 attacks once per short rest after expending a level 3 and 5 spell slot... Which actually brings up another point. Both swift quiver and haste require your concentration, meaning that the bard cannot make their maximum proposed # of attacks without another character helping them.

This means that when a solo fighter is getting 5 (9 on action surge) attacks in a round, the maximum a solo bard can reach is 4/ 3 (6/ 4 on action surge) with swift quiver, meaning that the bard will never approach the attacks/ round of a straight fighter 20. This makes the fighter 20 the go-to class for people who just want to attack as much as possible. Anything else (multiclassing, taking a different class entirely, etc) will actually lower the number of attacks you can make each round.

[Uthgar21]

I got confused about it because haste says "it gains an additional action" so I thought it counted as a new normal action.Anyway it was too good to be true! :P

[calebrus]

I got confused about it because haste says "it gains an additional action" so I thought it counted as a new normal action.Anyway it was too good to be true! :P

Yeah, but it specifies (one weapon attack only) to keep it somewhat balanced.
The reason it actually states one extra action is because that action can be used for something other than attacking.
The stipulation of one weapon attack only basically means if you are using the hasetened action for an attack, it kind of supersedes the Attack action because of the specific working.

[WickerNipple]

I got confused about it because haste says "it gains an additional action" so I thought it counted as a new normal action.Anyway it was too good to be true! :P

You didn't read the spell, and insulted people who disagreed with you. A++ effort.

[calebrus]

You didn't read the spell, and insulted people who disagreed with you. A++ effort.

To be fair here, the post he quoted could have easily been read by him as an attack on his intelligence, and he only responded in a manner which indicates that he was offended by it.
I'm not saying it actually was an attack on his intelligence, only that it could easily be read as such.

[Eloel]

To be fair here, the post he quoted could have easily been read by him as an attack on his intelligence, and he only responded in a manner which indicates that he was offended by it.
I'm not saying it actually was an attack on his intelligence, only that it could easily be read as such.
The question is, after such a response, even if it was pre-emptive, should the post be interpreted as at fault?

[Ralanr]

Let's just try to avoid any insults for now. If we are going to discuss them, then let it be a discussion rather than a flame war.

[Uthgar21]

Let's just try to avoid any insults for now. If we are going to discuss them, then let it be a discussion rather than a flame war.
OK guys relax.I am a newbie and I just wanted a second opinion to be sure about something and everyone treated me like I should commit suicide because I dont know very well the rules.OK I should have read more carefully but you could be more polite.The fact that I didnt read the rules right isnt somenthing that I should be ashamed of.
And always remember this: Even if I am not only stupid but the most STUPID guy in the world, doesnt mean that YOU are clever.Try to better yourself and not insult a person that is not as good or intellegent as you are.80% of the comments were ironic and when I answered in the same tone anyone acted as if he was Mother Teresa!
I am really sorry if I offended you, I will never post again in that forum.I will take my stupidity tonight and go play D&D with my friends who are not genius and dont know all the rules right, but at least they dont harass each other and they are having fun.

[Maxilian]

OK guys relax.I am a newbie and I just wanted a second opinion to be sure about something and everyone treated me like I should commit suicide because I dont know very well the rules.OK I should have read more carefully but you could be more polite.The fact that I didnt read the rules right isnt somenthing that I should be ashamed of.
And always remember this: Even if I am not only stupid but the most STUPID guy in the world, doesnt mean that YOU are clever.Try to better yourself and not insult a person that is not as good or intellegent as you are.80% of the comments were ironic and when I answered in the same tone anyone acted as if he was Mother Teresa!
I am really sorry if I offended you, I will never post again in that forum.I will take my stupidity tonight and go play D&D with my friends who are not genius and dont know all the rules right, but at least they dont harass each other and they are having fun.

People are not so... bad in these forums but have in mind that you posted the thread at 2 AM, the lack of sleep make people a little... angry

[Uthgar21]

People are not so... bad in these forums but have in mind that you posted the thread at 2 AM, the lack of sleep make people a little... angry

I really dont want to talk about the bravehearts who harass behind the keyboard but since you put it that way let me tell you something.I asked a question about a GAME and a random guy who doesnt know me told me right away that I am retarted.When I answered him in the same tone another guy told me that I insulted him ignoring the fact that he trashtalked me in the first place and that my answer wasnt as meanspirited as his.Then a third guy said about the first one that "his post could have been read as an insult" for a post that CLEARLY was an insult.
And for all that the problem is the hour of the conversation.
Really now???
If what you said is true then I must admit that I really am stupid, because I understood the haste ruling but I cant understand this no matter how I look at it.

[Ralanr]

I really dont want to talk about the bravehearts who harass behind the keyboard but since you put it that way let me tell you something.I asked a question about a GAME and a random guy who doesnt know me told me right away that I am retarted.When I answered him in the same tone another guy told me that I insulted him ignoring the fact that he trashtalked me in the first place and that my answer wasnt as meanspirited as his.Then a third guy said about the first one that "his post could have been read as an insult" for a post that CLEARLY was an insult.
And for all that the problem is the hour of the conversation.
Really now???
If what you said is true then I must admit that I really am stupid, because I understood the haste ruling but I cant understand this no matter how I look at it.

I'm not going to try and defend anyone that insulted you, though trying insult someone back does not help your case in being the victim. You shouldn't take the reactions from one or two people and suddenly decide that this forum is a bad place. You are also a newbie, so there is nothing to be ashamed of when getting something wrong and no one should believe so otherwise.

[Slipperychicken]

Really now???

I apologize, it really is mean for us to diss you in your own thread. We shouldn't expect everyone who comes here to do everything perfectly, nor should we insult people for it. Also, I think these forums have a bias against posters who frequently make grammar or spelling errors, even when we can perfectly understand what they're trying to say.

[Eloel]

Also, I think these forums have a bias against posters who frequently make grammar or spelling errors, even when we can perfectly understand what they're trying to say.

This. Oh so very much of this. Not everyone speaks perfect English, mainly due to it not being their native language, that is completely understandable (it is not my mother tongue either). Most people put in the effort though.

[Demonic Spoon]

Actually, this brings up an interesting ambiguity in that wording:

It specifies one weapon attack only. Does that mean that you get the full attack action, but can only make one weapon attack with it (and can still use additional attacks from Extra Attack in order to grapple, shove, etc.), or that the action can only be used to make a weapon attack?

I'm guessing RAI is the latter, but what do the rest of you think?

[Maxilian]

I really dont want to talk about the bravehearts who harass behind the keyboard but since you put it that way let me tell you something.I asked a question about a GAME and a random guy who doesnt know me told me right away that I am retarted.When I answered him in the same tone another guy told me that I insulted him ignoring the fact that he trashtalked me in the first place and that my answer wasnt as meanspirited as his.Then a third guy said about the first one that "his post could have been read as an insult" for a post that CLEARLY was an insult.
And for all that the problem is the hour of the conversation.
Really now???
If what you said is true then I must admit that I really am stupid, because I understood the haste ruling but I cant understand this no matter how I look at it.

Well yeah, you're right, there's no reason for anyone to insult you (no matter the reason), but don't pay them back with the same coin, well... don't worry, these kind of things don't happen often (most flame wars here are thanks to "let the DM decide" debates)


Actually, this brings up an interesting ambiguity in that wording:

It specifies one weapon attack only. Does that mean that you get the full attack action, but can only make one weapon attack with it (and can still use additional attacks from Extra Attack in order to grapple, shove, etc.), or that the action can only be used to make a weapon attack?

I'm guessing RAI is the latter, but what do the rest of you think?

As Calebus said... no, is just one weapon attack

[xyianth]

The level 5 spell Swift Quiver is what you are looking for here, and you can get that at bard 10 due to magical secrets.

However, this will limit you to 5 attacks/ round if you go with the valor bard and get haste (4 with the lore bard), which you could just as easily get on a fighter with TWF, polearm master, crossbow expert or a speed weapon once you reach level 20 without haste. That fighter will also be getting off 9 attacks with an action surge (again, without even touching haste) twice per short rest, while your valor/ lore bard multiclassing fighter will be able to action surge for 7/5 attacks once per short rest after expending a level 3 and 5 spell slot... Which actually brings up another point. Both swift quiver and haste require your concentration, meaning that the bard cannot make their maximum proposed # of attacks without another character helping them.

This means that when a solo fighter is getting 5 (9 on action surge) attacks in a round, the maximum a solo bard can reach is 4/ 3 (6/ 4 on action surge) with swift quiver, meaning that the bard will never approach the attacks/ round of a straight fighter 20. This makes the fighter 20 the go-to class for people who just want to attack as much as possible. Anything else (multiclassing, taking a different class entirely, etc) will actually lower the number of attacks you can make each round.

This is kind of off-topic but eldritch knight 7/warlock 1/X 9 can do 4 eldritch blasts + 1 bonus action attack. (+1 hasted) (+4 more blasts via action surge) This is the same as a dual-wielding fighter 20, only it reaches 5 attacks at ECL 17. It does however require a specific build, two different attack stats, and has different feat support. I just wanted to point out that you can actually match a pure fighter in number of attacks with careful multiclassing.

[Oscredwin]

This is kind of off-topic but eldritch knight 7/warlock 1/X 9 can do 4 eldritch blasts + 1 bonus action attack. (+1 hasted) (+4 more blasts via action surge) This is the same as a dual-wielding fighter 20, only it reaches 5 attacks at ECL 17. It does however require a specific build, two different attack stats, and has different feat support. I just wanted to point out that you can actually match a pure fighter in number of attacks with careful multiclassing.

I've been wondering why people don't talk more about casting haste on warlocks. A warlock 2/Sorc16(with quicken)/fighter2 with haste can cast 4EBs for (4d10+20) on a nova round. That's 126 damage on most rounds (or 84 and a normal spell), and 168 damage on the Action Surge round (or 126 and an normal spell).

[calebrus]

I've been wondering why people don't talk more about casting haste on warlocks. A warlock 2/Sorc16(with quicken)/fighter2 with haste can cast 4EBs for (4d10+20) on a nova round.

No, he can cast 3 EBs and make one weapon attack. And he can only do it once per short rest. Otherwise it's 2 EBs and one weapon attack. And he's giving up 4+ sorc levels to do it.
He'd be better off ditching those 2 fighter levels and just taking the lock splash. That way he's not losing 2 caster levels just so he can nova a little better once per short rest.

[Oscredwin]

No, he can cast 3 EBs and make one weapon attack. And he can only do it once per short rest. Otherwise it's 2 EBs and one weapon attack. And he's giving up 4+ sorc levels to do it.
He'd be better off ditching those 2 fighter levels and just taking the lock splash. That way he's not losing 2 caster levels just so he can nova a little better once per short rest.

Ah, I didn't notice you couldn't cast a cantrip with the Haste action.

[gameogre]

Well put out your notebook, pen and whatever and write down this for your research.Normally I have attack action (1), extra attack (2) which is not noted as a bonus action and a frenzy attack (3) which is a bonus action.With haste I have one extra action so one more attack action (4) and more extra attack (5) since its a normal action and not a bonus one.But I cant use frenzy since I already have used my bonus action for this round, which was my 6th.So in my point of view 5 seems legit.
As a student of human virginity, I am very interested in the thought of you stop playing Einstein with a guy who just started playing the ducking game and instead help me understand where I am wrong.Make me proud boy!!! :)

This is a joke post by the way point out some Barbarian lore from one Barb to another.


Grogthur The Mighty Shiety here. Yes THAT Grogthur! The screaming deathgod of the Eolass and the slayer of mountains. I'm really not writing this, my bard friend is doing it after reading to me what you wrote. Reading is for the weak! Men speak with steel!

I dun know a lot of that mathizardry talk you did up there but I can tell you made a horrid mistake! See back when your daddy bounced you off his knee and hit you with a rock he should have told you what kind of barbarian man to be. Now maybe it was you got knocked too hard with a rock or your daddy thought you looked like the barb next door but you got some WRONG information.

See real Barbarians are all bear totem warriors. I know I know, Totems seem like them there fairy trees or something but they are not. go beat a bard and have him read the third level Bear totem rage ability. You take half damage from EVERYTHING but psychic! EVERYTHING. Swords,axes,fireballs,daggers,sneak attacks,falling off cliffs, halberds,lightning bolt, poison,EVERYTHING!

Now for the real kick in the nutsack, smash that bards nose and dare him to read to you the ways and how to rid yourself of fatigue and how it goes. I'll wait?

Killed that bard didn't you? How many did you go through?

See Bear totem barbarians are just the #$#$#$! Frenzy sounds nice but it's a deathtrap! As in it will actually kill you!

So right now, go ask you DM if he minds you making a few changes since you are new to the game(while you are standing on his balls if need be).

You friend,

Grogthur The Mighty Shiety

[Magic Myrmidon]

This is a joke post by the way point out some Barbarian lore from one Barb to another.


Grogthur The Mighty Shiety here. Yes THAT Grogthur! The screaming deathgod of the Eolass and the slayer of mountains. I'm really not writing this, my bard friend is doing it after reading to me what you wrote. Reading is for the weak! Men speak with steel!

I dun know a lot of that mathizardry talk you did up there but I can tell you made a horrid mistake! See back when your daddy bounced you off his knee and hit you with a rock he should have told you what kind of barbarian man to be. Now maybe it was you got knocked too hard with a rock or your daddy thought you looked like the barb next door but you got some WRONG information.

See real Barbarians are all bear totem warriors. I know I know, Totems seem like them there fairy trees or something but they are not. go beat a bard and have him read the third level Bear totem rage ability. You take half damage from EVERYTHING but psychic! EVERYTHING. Swords,axes,fireballs,daggers,sneak attacks,falling off cliffs, halberds,lightning bolt, poison,EVERYTHING!

Now for the real kick in the nutsack, smash that bards nose and dare him to read to you the ways and how to rid yourself of fatigue and how it goes. I'll wait?

Killed that bard didn't you? How many did you go through?

See Bear totem barbarians are just the #$#$#$! Frenzy sounds nice but it's a deathtrap! As in it will actually kill you!

So right now, go ask you DM if he minds you making a few changes since you are new to the game(while you are standing on his balls if need be).

You friend,

Grogthur The Mighty Shiety

This post amused me. I like it.

[Savannah]

The Mod One Out: Locked for review.