Advice needed on how to handle a begginer DM

[RoboEmperor]

I joined a new game recently, we had our first session and...

1. He didn't know you added your STR modifier to your attack roll
2. He didn't know you added 1.5 your STR modifier to your damage roll with two handed weapons
3. He didn't know what mage armor was, and didn't know that it didn't stack with normal armor.
4. He didn't know 3.5 had other books
5. He didn't know how to calculate spell save DCs, or how to make will saving throws. This makes me suspect that he doesn't know anything about spells.

This was just a few of many.

I was correcting him throughout the entire combat rounds, and he believed everything I said, but this DM is like totally new to the game let alone DMing.

The guy is a nice guy, but I get the feeling he doesn't want to buckle down and read up on the rules. It feels weird to be telling the DM what to do.

I don't want to be rude and telling someone "you're wrong" feels quite rude, and I have a feeling I'll be correcting this DM on many, many occasions through the rest of the campaign. Any advice on this?

[Maglubiyet]

What are your options? DM in his place, find a new DM, or help him along. If you think he'll be a fast learner then it might be a good investment of your time to train a new guy that will run games for your group. If you don't think he'll ever reach that level then maybe someone else should take over.

If the boards here are any indication, with all the players looking for DM's, it seems that DM's are rarer than players. If you've got a guy who's willing to give it a try, maybe you could work with him a little.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Volunteer to co-DM? Help him build and run his monsters, while he takes the lead on the roleplaying bits. Also maybe see if you can find a cheat sheet/newbie's guide type thing that he can look at; that might be less intimidating than a three hundred page tome. If he just cannot grasp the rules well enough to DM, suggest a different, rules-light system. Fate or STaRS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361270-STaRS-the-Simple-TAbletop-Roleplaying-System-5-0)or something.

[RoboEmperor]

What are your options? DM in his place, find a new DM, or help him along. If you think he'll be a fast learner then it might be a good investment of your time to train a new guy that will run games for your group. If you don't think he'll ever reach that level then maybe someone else should take over.

If the boards here are any indication, with all the players looking for DM's, it seems that DM's are rarer than players. If you've got a guy who's willing to give it a try, maybe you could work with him a little.

The guy is a nice guy, I like him, I want to finish the campaign, and I don't mind helping him along, but it starting to feel like I'm running the show, and in my past experience, a player taking control really pisses off the DM, in addition to a player constantly going "actually, you're wrong. It's...."

I'm just looking for advice rather than a solution, or someone's experience with a similar situation and what happened.

I'm keeping quiet on some of the smaller rules right now.
1. He seems oblivious to wealth by level. We each started with 1gp, horses cost 5 silver, no cash rewards yet. Problematic for anyone who wants to buy magic item stuff.
2. We're all on horses. At the start of a fight we should all be rolling ride checks to see if we stay on them.

There are also some other problems, like him trying to add 3 combat NPCs that are stronger than the players to the party, making us wait forever for our turn.

[atemu1234]

The guy is a nice guy, I like him, I want to finish the campaign, and I don't mind helping him along, but it starting to feel like I'm running the show, and in my past experience, a player taking control really pisses off the DM, in addition to a player constantly going "actually, you're wrong. It's...."

I'm just looking for advice rather than a solution, or someone's experience with a similar situation and what happened.

I'm keeping quiet on some of the smaller rules right now.
1. He seems oblivious to wealth by level. We each started with 1gp, horses cost 5 silver, no cash rewards yet.
2. We're all on horses. At the start of a fight we should all be rolling ride checks to see if we stay on them.

There are also some other problems, like him trying to add 3 combat NPCs that are stronger than the players to the party, making us wait forever for our turn.

Maybe have him read the core rules?

[Maglubiyet]

Maybe have him read the core rules?

Yeah, agree here. I mean, are you guys even playing D&D or just running a shared story-telling session with some random dice rolling?

The co-DM option is also good because it lets him see "how it's done".

[Sam K]

I'm just gonna stick with the old forum advice of "talk to the guy outside of the session". Maybe he thinks it's awesome that you're helping out with the rules. Maybe it really makes him feel insecure. You won't know until you talk to him, and until you know how he feels, it's hard to really decide how to act.

[Threadnaught]

Volunteer to co-DM? Help him build and run his monsters, while he takes the lead on the roleplaying bits. Also maybe see if you can find a cheat sheet/newbie's guide type thing that he can look at; that might be less intimidating than a three hundred page tome. If he just cannot grasp the rules well enough to DM, suggest a different, rules-light system. Fate or STaRS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361270-STaRS-the-Simple-TAbletop-Roleplaying-System-5-0)or something.

It's either this, or let him learn from a player's point of view.

It takes some people longer to pick it up than others. Some even read the Core rules for a few months before giving it a shot as players.

[BWR]

I've had similar experiences. Nearly 7 years after we started playing 3.5 and he still needed help calculating spell DCs, forgot class abilities for NPCs and would argue against all sorts of rules that he thought worked differently than they did.
Best thing to do is just ask them after the game if he gets annoyed at you pointing out the rules. It could very well be he has a fun game to run and doesn't mind other people explaining the rules as they come up. This usually works fairly well except for combat (you never know what sort of stuff you'll meet when someone doesn't understand the rules or the PCs well enough).

[rrwoods]

Definitely talk with him outside the gaming session. Give him homework (seriously) -- though be sure not to come across as high and mighty when you do this. You want to play an awesome game, and you want to see him run an awesome game, so help the guy out, especially if he's a good friend.

[Galen]

Offer to meet with him outside the game session and give him some pointers on the most important stuff (attack modifiers, how spells works, etc). Be patient when he messes up the less important stuff. Be a resource, not a nuisance.

[Sliver]

A DM with no experience with a system, regardless if he is a beginner overall or not, should read the rules before DMing. If he DMs for experienced players, they will grow frustrated. If he DMs for novices, they might learn his botched version of the rules, making it very confusing for them if they ever play under a more experienced DM.

Talk to him?

[aspekt]

I'm just gonna stick with the old forum advice of "talk to the guy outside of the session". Maybe he thinks it's awesome that you're helping out with the rules. Maybe it really makes him feel insecure. You won't know until you talk to him, and until you know how he feels, it's hard to really decide how to act.

Exactly. They could be intimidated, thankful, or all of the above.

I get the need to be fairly familiar with the rules, but I'm also a big believer that if you want it done differently either help to enable that or do it yourself. Every DM is a first DM at some point. You have to decide not only what's possible, but what's feasible as well. And you can only do that by graciously talking to them and offering your assistance.

Also, it doesn't sound like this is a table you have been with very long. Perhaps the other players are aware of the rules and the DMs failings, but are willing to put up with it as they learn the ropes. Find out where everyone is at and why. Then go from there.

[RoboEmperor]

Thanks for your advices.
This is an online session and everyone there are complete strangers to each other.
Giving homework is a little awkward... I don't know this guy, and I don't know how to say "read the rules" in a polite way.

I'll just take over the next few battles and maybe he'll learn from my example.

But the bigger issues is his encounters. He has no concept of CR. Our party is level 2 and we're getting annihilated, and I suspect it's because he didn't properly create his NPCs. His dual wielding orc rogue was hitting way too often.

How do I say "I think you're making your NPCs wrong. Can I look at them?" without offending the guy?

Whole group are novices, so I got no one supporting me that I'm right, which kind of feels like I'm taking over. If there was at least 1 other experienced guy he could agree with me and it'd feel like a consensus.

Based on your advices, I have this plan:
1. Subtly take control of the next few battles. Take the lead in saying who goes first.
2. Ask to let me check his work on his NPCs
3. Subtly become a Co-DM unofficially.
4. Inform him of wealth by level, magic shops, etc.

[Sliver]

How do I say "I think you're making your NPCs wrong. Can I look at them?" without offending the guy?

"Hey, want some help balancing the NPCs?"

[Grod_The_Giant]

Based on your advices, I have this plan:
1. Subtly take control of the next few battles. Take the lead in saying who goes first.
2. Ask to let me check his work on his NPCs
3. Subtly become a Co-DM unofficially.
4. Inform him of wealth by level, magic shops, etc.
Um... don't do it subtly. Be polite but explicit about trying to help. "Subtly taking control" sounds like a good way to cause resentment, and I don't even know how "subtly become a co-DM" would work.

[RoboEmperor]

Um... don't do it subtly. Be polite but explicit about trying to help. "Subtly taking control" sounds like a good way to cause resentment, and I don't even know how "subtly become a co-DM" would work.

I may have phrased it badly. I was gonna offer to proofread his stuff, and after doing it 2-3 times he should be good enough to do it by himself and ask me questions. Is that co-DMing? I won't have access to any story element, but helping him design encounters is probably co-dming.

Yeah, I phrased it badly. My apologies.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I may have phrased it badly. I was gonna offer to proofread his stuff, and after doing it 2-3 times he should be good enough to do it by himself and ask me questions. Is that co-DMing? I won't have access to any story element, but helping him design encounters is probably co-dming.

Yeah, I phrased it badly. My apologies.
Yeah, that's probably fine. Just a friendly "hey dude, I'm enjoying the story you're telling but you seem to be a bit hazy on the rules; would you like help with designing your NPCs and stuff?"

[RoboEmperor]

"hey dude, I'm enjoying the story you're telling but you seem to be a bit hazy on the rules; would you like help with designing your NPCs and stuff?"

Perfect!


"Hey, want some help balancing the NPCs?"

I'll say this if his enemies keep destroying the party again and again.

[Spore]

Also try to focus on roleplaying the first few sessions. A new DM must learn that NPCs need motivations, stories and personalities. The statblocks that are underlying are far less important.

Some questions regarding your character and fellow PCs. Are your characters within a certain power level? Can you extrapolate how the power levels will develop? I tried DMing once and I felt that the PCs with some options but not T1/T2 are my favorite type of PCs to play with. They can't escape my gauntlet by simply teleporting nor does their story end on their first encounter with a wizard because they lack a way to fly.

[RoboEmperor]

Also try to focus on roleplaying the first few sessions. A new DM must learn that NPCs need motivations, stories and personalities. The statblocks that are underlying are far less important.

Some questions regarding your character and fellow PCs. Are your characters within a certain power level? Can you extrapolate how the power levels will develop? I tried DMing once and I felt that the PCs with some options but not T1/T2 are my favorite type of PCs to play with. They can't escape my gauntlet by simply teleporting nor does their story end on their first encounter with a wizard because they lack a way to fly.

Everyone but me is either relatively new or completely new. We have:
Wizard (me)
Cleric
2 Rangers
1 Hexblade

I changed my character build to be a standard mostly core-only BFC straight 20 wizard that relies on fiery burst to match the party's low-op power.

He loves NPCs too much. First we have a mysterious rogue NPC that joined our party. Then we got a barkeep who is actually a paladin NPC that just joined us for no reason. Then he tried to have an orc fighter join the party. He was supposed to duel one of us 1v1, lose, and then join, but our dueler (the cleric) was losing so our rangers attacked the fighter. His rogue NPC grappled one of the rangers to stop him from attacking the fighter, and in the end, we killed the orc. But seriously, 3 NPCs joining our party? And they're stronger than us too. The next time he tries to add NPCs to the party, I'm gonna strongly voice my concern.

He also got upset when none of us took the rogue's "sad actions" seriously. Rogue was crying about finding his mentor/friend, none of us gave a crap and he was upset. So coupled with his lack of knowledge of the game mechanics, I'm guessing he made a story he really likes and tried to act it out in d&d. I can tell this campaign is gonna be little player agency, and a "forced" story on us.

All this is fine though, he's a beginner, he's a nice guy, he's passionate about his story (I think), and he doesn't hammer down characters (probably because he never experienced a power gaming wizard before).

[LooseCannoneer]

3 NPCs in the party? Show him these boards, give him an idea about how we work as DMs or players. Except maybe not this thread.

[ZamielVanWeber]

3 NPCs is a warning flag to me. He needs to be acquiring system mastery, not engaging in ego masturbation. I would really try telling him that his NPCs are not helping at all and just interfering with other people's enjoyment of the game.