Goblins XV: Klik Here

[Agi Hammerthief]

Discussion of the Goblins Comic (http://www.goblinscomic.com/). We do it here.

Previous threads:

Goblins Thread 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53552)
Goblins I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91562)
Goblins II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119947)
GoblIIIns (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160611)
Goblins IV: Live Free or Die Horribly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176739)
Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184044)
Goblins VI: How Many Fingers Am I Holding Up? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195334)
Goblins VII: I'm TOTALLY Gonna Pee On This Thing! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212057)
Goblins VIII: This Thread Contains An Unexpected Variable (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225970)
Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245780)
Goblins X: Orcs fall, everybody dies (horribly) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260383)
Goblins XI: There ARE Goblins In This Comic, Right? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281797)
Goblins XII: Your Home for Magical Limb Replacement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302163%94)
Goblins XIII: Now With Goblins! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318899)
Goblins XIV: Clerical Omission (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335005-Goblins-XIV-Clerical-Omission)

Current informations on Axe Of Prissan wielders:
Wielders of the Axe of Prissan
Starting with the most recent

Big Ears - Male Goblin Paladin. One of the protagonists of the story and current wielder of the axe.
Saral Caine* - Evil Male Half Stone Giant/Half Human. Ally of Dellyn Goblinslayer and minor antagonist in the Brassmoon arc.
Dri Featherknife (http://imageshack.us/a/img15/5051/lvez.jpg) - Female Human Rogue/Paladin. She was killed by Goblinslayer and Saral Caine after uncovering their plot to frame the sherrif of Brassmoon for murder.
Flejj Hillmover - Male Dwarf. He fought Kore twice and survived. His family was not so lucky. He shaved his beard in shame.

----

Felsibeth "Soot" Blackbringer (http://imageshack.us/a/img15/8921/oo1e.jpg) - Young Female Human Paladin. Youngest to ever wield the axe.
Kelstride Blackbringer - Male Human Paladin. Soot's Father. Former chimney sweep. Killed by a Kobold stampede.
Drose (http://imageshack.us/a/img440/234/l0qu.jpg) - Genderless Golem Paladin. Drose passed the Axe to Kelstride Blackbringer to prevent the demon imprisoned within from taking control of his body.
Eled of the East - "Fat, over confident" Paladin. Was given the axe by Myorg.
Mryorg (http://imageshack.us/a/img600/2522/c6kb.jpg)* - Evil Male Ogre. Beat (but did not kill) Vilias Red in combat and took the Axe from her. Used it to cause great suffering before eventually giving it to Elad purely to make the demon contained within suffer after coming so close to freedom.
Vilias Red (http://imageshack.us/a/img46/4160/8apn.jpg)* - Female Human Rogue. Was friends with Tivoth Fastfoot and took the axe after Tivoth died in battle with the intention of giving it to another Paladin.
Tivoth Fastfoot - Male Paladin. Encountered Vilias Red looting a corpse and assumed she had murdered the man. Once he realized she was innocent, the two became friends and traveled together.

----

Kevitch Gritland (http://imageshack.us/a/img853/1350/m797.jpg)* - Evil Male... formerly... Human maybe... Fighter/Wizard. Horribly mutated by an evil swamp. Killed Eldrock Cloudcry and claimed the axe as his own.
Eldrock Cloudcry - Known in name only.

-----

Cal (http://imageshack.us/a/img36/9210/cu92.jpg) - Male Gnome Paladin. Egotistic gambler. Had a powerful, icy magic effect.
Jelbin Crae - Male Human Paladin. Gave Cal the Axe willingly. Nothing else is known.

*Confirmed non-Paladin


Individual Magic Effects (IME's)
One of the more frequent sources of confusion is what people are talking about when we're referring to IME's. Here is the comic's explaination of what they are. (http://www.goblinscomic.com/08042006/) And now you know.

Shield of Wonder Effects List
Shield of Wonder page 1http://imageshack.us/a/img594/7247/iwta.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 2http://imageshack.us/a/img32/6251/qiol.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 3http://imageshack.us/a/img594/5633/9lb7.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 4http://imageshack.us/a/img35/9479/6i99.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 5http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9456/lvg8.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 6http://imageshack.us/a/img15/9746/e2qr.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 7http://imageshack.us/a/img30/6444/92n2.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 8http://imageshack.us/a/img35/2995/ic5y.jpg
Shield of Wonder page 9http://imageshack.us/a/img850/3715/gnyy.jpg

[TheEmerged]

At one time, I feared this strip ever continuing. Glad to see it "moving" again, albeit glacially.

[Traab]

Meh, im just glad he isnt trying to force himself to stay on an arbitrary schedule anymore.

[John Cribati]

Well, he is getting hundreds of dollars every time he puts a comic up, thanks to Patreon. Really provides some worry-free incentive.

[Draconi Redfir]

mainly posting so i know that this thread is here, but yeah. i feel once you have a good motivation (i.e. only getting paid when you post something) you tend to work harder on something :P

[Traab]

From what I gather, motivation was never his problem. It was perfectionism paired with an unrealistic posting schedule.

[Lissou]

Yeah, for all we know the more he gets paid per page, the more he'll worry that the page has to be perfect because people are paying so much for it.

At any rate, I'm really happy that Goblins is updating again and I'm enjoying it.

[raymundo]

Jeez.

That Patreon is really insane. Did you ever wonder how much Rich B. would get? 5k? 15k? 20k?

[The Glyphstone]

Well, the Reprint Kickstarter netted him a bit over $1.2 million, for a total of 1078 (reprinted) comics including the two prequel books. So that would be roughly $1113 per comic, based on such an utterly unscientific benchmark.

[raymundo]

You said it yourself, but just to clarify: That's money raised to reprint the books and stuff, not cash for his pockets.

Thunt is getting the ~1300$ from the Patreon minus some cut for Patreon themselves (I guess?). Probably still a nice grand in cash, for each comic. Mindblowing. Also neat for him, he's a swell guy

[Killer Angel]

All hail the new thread. It was about time! :smallsmile:

[The Glyphstone]

You said it yourself, but just to clarify: That's money raised to reprint the books and stuff, not cash for his pockets.

Thunt is getting the ~1300$ from the Patreon minus some cut for Patreon themselves (I guess?). Probably still a nice grand in cash, for each comic. Mindblowing. Also neat for him, he's a swell guy

Sure, but absent Rich publishing his sales figures for the reprints, we have no idea how much cash in pocket resulted. So I used the best numbers I have available.

[Bird]

A more apples-to-apples comparison would be to compare the traffic of goblins and giantitp, and extrapolate based on that.

But...I don't know of any reliable source for traffic information, so: Glyphstone is right that we don't seem to have any good data as a starting point. (Alexa does indicate that giantitp is significantly more popular that goblins, FWLIW.)

[The Glyphstone]

On the other hand, GITP.com is much more than just the comic, it's also the root site for the GITP forums, which are a gigantic discussion site for all manner of topics beyond the comic itself. The Goblins forums are hosted at goblinsforum.com, so they might not be counted in Alexa's rankings at all, in addition to, by the looks of it, being only about Goblins itself plus a general off-topic forum and a section for playing PbP games. With the exception of Board Issues and the relatively new Mad Science subforums, the smallest sub-board of GitP (Other Webcomics, ironically) has almost double the lifetime posts of the entire Goblins forum (249k to 132k), and we have 10 subforums covering basically everything under the sun.

[Bird]

Though, it's also important to consider that the current Goblins forums go back only two years, while that giantitp forums go back more than a decade. Those two years have been more of a dry spell for goblins than for OotS, too.

Anyway, it's possible to view the higher popularity of the giantitp forums as an indication that the comic is also more popular. But again, the relationship is uncertain.

My general impression is that OotS is the more popular comic, in part because its Kickstarter was such a world-beating success & because I think it lost less readers due to delay-attrition. There were so many specific factors that went into the Kickstarter working out, though, apart from the comic's overall popularity: sensational word-of-mouth; a lot of fans hadn't bought the books already but wanted them; the Giant offered great goodies; the runaway-train of pledges made it fun to join in, etc.

I'm hemming and hawing, because in the end, the data we have is poor, so we're forced to compare unlike things. I certainly wouldn't want to hold up Alexa for any more than it's worth.

[Lissou]

Sure, but absent Rich publishing his sales figures for the reprints, we have no idea how much cash in pocket resulted. So I used the best numbers I have available.

I seem to remember Rich mentioning that between the hidden costs and a bunch of other things, it ended up costing him money out of pocket, so "cash in pocket" would be a negative number there.

Either way, the Giant hasn't allowed donations for as long as I remember (asking for the money to be donated to charities instead) so I'm thinking he might not be willing to do a Patreon in the first place anyways.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, it's not something he would go for under any circumstances, with his no-donations policy. So we're speculating to no ultimate purpose, but that is half the fun anyways.

[Quild]

You said it yourself, but just to clarify: That's money raised to reprint the books and stuff, not cash for his pockets.

Thunt is getting the ~1300$ from the Patreon minus some cut for Patreon themselves (I guess?). Probably still a nice grand in cash, for each comic. Mindblowing. Also neat for him, he's a swell guy

I seem to remember that Rich actually "lost" money (or rather had to add money from his pocket) with the kickstarter because he underestimated some costs. But since he ended with remaining printed books to be sold, it was all fine.

Rich blew records with his kickstarter, don't know if it would be the same with a patreon. Zach gets almost 9k per month for SMBC which is a daily webcomic. Thunt would have to make 6 pages a month to get the same, I don't think it's going to happen before a while :D


Patreon is kinda weird for non regular comics. If you pay per month, you don't know how many pages you'll have for what you pay and put some pressure on the author that may think you're his patron.
If you pay per page, you don't know how much you'll have to pay during the month and put some pressure on the author who's not sure how you will react to a sudden important amount of new pages (like, imagine the combo of the kickstarter 1-page-a-day-during-9-days and a patreon/page :D)

[raymundo]

Interesting, I didn't really think of Patreon as being donations. Sure, Thunt has the donation drives with Tempts Fate and similair things, but Patreon only charges you if the author actually produces something. Therefore I didn't think the Patreon payments as donations.. just payments for delivered comics.

That is to say, it's probably close enough so Rich wouldn't bother with it.

[Lissou]

I think Patreon is closer to kickstarter (pay for a product, and in the case of pay/page, only pay if the product is delivered) than to a straight-up donation, but it's also not a one-time thing like a kickstarter to reprint books was, it would be a long-term income, and so I can see someone being uncomfortable with that, especially if some people then feel entitled to try and pressure or content or something. I can totally see the Giant just not want to have to deal with any of that.

This being said, if he ever decides to have a Patreon, I'll be very happy to join it.

Going back to Goblins, does anyone think what happened to Forgath fulfilled his prophecy, or is he going to get killed by a dwarf with lots of screaming involved again? I mean he didn't die. I think. Then again maybe he's considered a different person now? What do you guys think?

[Douglas]

Note: even though I am a moderator, I have no inside knowledge on this subject. The following is my personal opinion alone, formed on the basis of Rich's public statements and posts.

I doubt Rich will ever consider a per-month Patreon. That would quite strongly bring in all the issues and reasons why he doesn't accept donations - it would give people a reason to think they are entitled to a frequent update schedule because they think that's what they're paying for.

He might possibly consider a per-update Patreon. That has a much stronger link between each payment and one specific obvious thing the payment is for, which fits the criteria Rich has stated for monetary transactions he's willing to consider. Plus, it has a really obvious refutation for people who pay and then complain about the schedule.

[-D-]

Silly question, but MinMax right eye was damaged/gouged, right? What's the purple that flows from it?

[Lissou]

Silly question, but MinMax right eye was damaged/gouged, right? What's the purple that flows from it?

It's not flowing from it. It's a scar. He was hit with a sword from his chin up to his eye, leaving a scar leading up to his eye, and that eye blind.

[Spojaz]

It's not flowing from it. It's a scar. He was hit with a sword from his chin up to his eye, leaving a scar leading up to his eye, and that eye blind.

close. not a scar, but a reconstruction http://www.goblinscomic.org/08252013-2/

[Lissou]

close. not a scar, but a reconstruction http://www.goblinscomic.org/08252013-2/

Ah, yeah, I forgot that part somehow! Which means that now this part of him is indestructible, like Forgath's beard.

[Traab]

Ah, yeah, I forgot that part somehow! Which means that now this part of him is indestructible, like Forgath's beard.

Yeah but somehow I dont see Minmax trying to stop an attack like this (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1358) So its way less useful than forgaths beard. Maybe it would help stop an attack that would decapitate him at eye level, but other than that, yeesh.

[Lurkmoar]

Yeah but somehow I dont see Minmax trying to stop an attack like this (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1358) So its way less useful than forgaths beard. Maybe it would help stop an attack that would decapitate him at eye level, but other than that, yeesh.

Trying to catch an attack with a specific part of your invincible face does seem like a recipe for disaster. Would make for a neat party trick though.

[Bird]

MM is blind in that eye still? I must be remembering wrong; I thought Thunt said he could see out of it (raising questions about if that would make his vision 50% monochromatic purple or what).

[Lethologica]

In the above-linked page showing MinMax getting his purple eye, he comments that everything looks purple. So, yes.

[Draconi Redfir]

he could always see out of the eye, but it was still "damaged" so the IME thing "Fixed" it, so now he continues to see out of it but everything looks purple now.

[Lissou]

My comment was before I was reminded of his eye being fixed. Since it looked all cloudy before, I assumed it was a visual clue of it being blinded. When it was fixed, well obviously it was fixed.

It's possible he could always see through it, although I assume things would have had to be clouded or something in that eye.

Basically I misunderstood the question and gave a wrong answer that can safely be completely ignored.

[Draconi Redfir]

ahh, my bad then. herp.

[Agi Hammerthief]

new update or something

[Nourjan]

So if GAP stumbled across a human settlement and slaughtered it it wouldn't be evil?

By settlement you meant civilian enclave(village ,trading outpost or even small towns ) ,right?
Then yes, that would be Evil. I doubt the Gap would try this , not even Thaco would condone this let alone their paladin.



NOTE: I'm not trying to restart a debate that have long passed their course(in another thread,even) just answering a question specifically directed at me (albeit several months late).

[Draconi Redfir]

i'm not sure, but i think Forgath's right hand isn't made of klik stone, it's just that big stone glove he was wearing that boosted his armor. could be wrong though. the kliks might have mistaken it for klik stone.

[Quild]

i'm not sure, but i think Forgath's right hand isn't made of klik stone, it's just that big stone glove he was wearing that boosted his armor. could be wrong though. the kliks might have mistaken it for klik stone.

I think the same. Forgath had the hammace on his hand when he felt.

Forgath may find the racist axe close from him but not sure if Kore was good enough to throw the "scepter" part of the hammace.

[Killer Angel]

To be fair, Forgath is a chatty dwarf... :smalltongue:

[Traab]

Too be more fair, he has a reason to be rambling like crazy right now. He fell to what he thought would be his death, was saved by an armada of flying things saying klik alot, got his armor eaten and half his body replaced by random colors of stuff, and has no clue wtf is going on. Oh yeah, and he is worried about minmax.

[Killer Angel]

Too be more fair, he has a reason to be rambling like crazy right now. He fell to what he thought would be his death, was saved by an armada of flying things saying klik alot, got his armor eaten and half his body replaced by random colors of stuff, and has no clue wtf is going on. Oh yeah, and he is worried about minmax.

'til we don't arrive at the level of Kin's rambling speeches, he's mentally sane. :smalltongue:

[Anteros]

I enjoyed the bit of levity in this update compared to the normal grimdark that has taken over the comic.

[Typewriter]

New comic is up.


New characters and a penis joke. Exactly what the comic needs right now.

[AtomicKitKat]

New comic is up.


New characters and a penis joke. Exactly what the comic needs right now.


More specifically,
testicle jokes.

But yes, it's a good change.

[Radar]

Those aren't exactly new characters - those still evidently are the gamers from before (we still don't see the one always playing short characters).

[Lord Torath]

The jokes weren't nearly as funny as Pale Blonde Girl's reaction. That had me biting my finger to keep from alerting the whole office to the fact that I read Goblins.

[Emperor Time]

Those aren't exactly new characters - those still evidently are the gamers from before (we still don't see the one always playing short characters).

I wonder if it means that the one that always playing short characters will be the Warforged character.

[Bird]

I was wondering too about this being 2/3 of the latest incarnation of the Drow Adventuring Party. Seems plausible, given the stupid conversation they're having in panel one. Have they figured out that the kliks are related to Junior (who killed them all last time)?

Also--if this *is* the DAP, won't their players talk to Forgath's player & establish that? Is it possible they have different DMs now?

The humor fell completely flat for me this time. Balls=balls, and...nothing to make that fresh or character-driven, in my opinion.

Bunny girl! Anybody have a handle on what's going on with her ears/hair? Specifically, the brown furry business coming out the back of her head?

[Draconi Redfir]

possible that the "players" have gotten better at sepperating out of character from in-character through either practice or observing the others. still possible they're unrelated entities, but i agree that they do very much remind me of the DAP.

could be thunt decided to remove the whole "players" bit from the story and just have them look/act "in character" as seperate living entities from any game being played, to soon to know for sure. Goblin girl (i'm assuming given the ears) is cute though.

[BannedInSchool]

She looks like a goblin to me from the ears and the tattoos, but I don't know what's going on with her lip. I'm not seeing anything that makes them necessarily the new characters for the DAP, or excludes them from being so other than the small breast size. :smalltongue: They're talking about the game mechanics like F&M did, but NPCs have some knowledge of game mechanics too. I'd say they seem more like PCs, but while it's been years(?) since the readers saw DAP 2.0 get TPKed by Junior, Dies' timeline splitting off so early means it could actually be the same day right now. Just because we haven't seen them in a while doesn't mean this is them when in the story their corpses could still be warm, and it seems like these new characters already have recent history here.

Short version: I'm not sold on them being the DAP, but I'm not saying I have proof they're not either. :smallwink:

[Janus]

The humor fell completely flat for me this time. Balls=balls, and...nothing to make that fresh or character-driven, in my opinion.
Didn't help that the comic essentially had its own laugh track. Still, I wish I could get $1400+ for writing that.

[Killer Angel]

The jokes weren't nearly as funny as Pale Blonde Girl's reaction.

I cannot not sympathize with her... :smallbiggrin:

[Quild]

I doubt this is the DAP. One of them playing a flat-chested goblin? No way.
I don't see what they would be doing with the Kliks and they would totally break characters and recognize Forgath (they thought Junior was Klik).

I'd like Bowst to be really K'Sellis but there are way more reasons for him not to be :(

Bowst has nice gloves :smallconfused:


The joke didn't worked for me either. Except maybe the last line.

[Traab]

I can totally see the flat chested goblin girl being the big breasted chick who tripped and fell only to be devoured by Kills Horribly. Why? She knows her tropes and is hoping to avert them from happening again. After all, I cant think of any specific tropes targeting characters that look like that.

[BannedInSchool]

I can totally see the flat chested goblin girl being the big breasted chick who tripped and fell only to be devoured by Kills Horribly. Why? She knows her tropes and is hoping to avert them from happening again. After all, I cant think of any specific tropes targeting characters that look like that.
Eh, but being a tattooed, pipe-smoking, kinda-normal goblin arguing that you can't detect noise with Spot doesn't fit with "wanna see my boobies?", IMO.

[Bird]

You know, we know that Thunt likes mixed-breeds (see: Saral Caine), so maybe our new female character is a goblin/bunnyperson hybrid. Her face screams bunny to me.

[Dodom]

I can imagine them be the same players, that are actually learning to play from attempt to attempt and aren't quiiiiiiite as lame as at first.

[Draconi Redfir]

Tall drow man DID go from being overly dramatic and angsty to more noraml-ish between Drow-guy and Samuri-guy. And they all seemed to have learned how to at the very least make unique characters rather then steal them from existing franchises.

[Quild]

Tall drow man DID go from being overly dramatic and angsty to more noraml-ish between Drow-guy and Samuri-guy. And they all seemed to have learned how to at the very least make unique characters rather then steal them from existing franchises.

Do you figure that last part from the moment he thinks his ring is a kind of pokeball and calls for Geodude? :smallamused:

[SaintRidley]

This seems like a weird introduction. Maybe it's the sudden tone/maturity shift?

[Emperor Time]

There's a new comic.


It was an interesting update since it explains their unique appearance and choice of clothing as well.

[SaintRidley]

If Thunt hadn't had a character say rabbit ears, I'd never have recognized them as such.

[Hands_Of_Blue]

Why are the kliks trapping them there?

[runeghost]

Why are the kliks trapping them there?

At a guess, they're not - the characters are just terminally stupid.

[Draconi Redfir]

wait those are rabbit ears? H'uh. thought they were pony/pigtails.

[Durkoala]

Who wants to guess that Idle's actually a busty humanoid cursed into being a flat-chested goblin?

[Quild]

Who wants to guess that Idle's actually a busty humanoid cursed into being a flat-chested goblin?
My thought as well :D

What about the third one? It seems to be neither Idle or Bowst whom called Forgath a noisy dwarf earlier, so maybe he's around there.

[Killer Angel]

the characters are just terminally stupid.

They clearly dumped wisdom (and Int), for more "practical" stats...

[Zejety]

Who wants to guess that Idle's actually a busty humanoid cursed into being a flat-chested goblin?
The name does sound like a potential Goblin name though.

[-D-]

They clearly dumped wisdom (and Int), for more "practical" stats...
It's for boobs, isn't it.

[Anteros]

I don't care about these characters Thunt! We all know you're only introducing them so you can kill them in grotesque ways. Again.

Get back to the plot!

[Killer Angel]

I don't care about these characters Thunt! We all know you're only introducing them so you can kill them in grotesque ways. Again.


And they don't even need a redshirt. :smallwink:

[Traab]

I don't care about these characters Thunt! We all know you're only introducing them so you can kill them in grotesque ways. Again.

Get back to the plot!

Dude, these characters are going to be the only reason forgath gets back to minmax. A solo cleric with no armor isnt going to last long. So yeah, they are a part of the plot, even if not long term.

[Janus]

We all know you're only introducing them so you can kill them in grotesque ways.
Or just so that Forgath can have Minmax a brand new fighter and Kin an attractive woman with him.

[Ubiq]

I don't care about these characters Thunt! We all know you're only introducing them so you can kill them in grotesque ways. Again

That seems like a twogone conclusion.

[Lord Torath]

Question about Not-Walter and the Maze of Many. Our Kin freed him, but he was part of Reality 38. Since Reality 38 didn't win, it should reset, so Not-Walter should still be in thrall to MinMax 38. But he seemed to be able to escape the Maze through a portal to Hell (at least, that's where Kin told him to go). So is he now free from the maze (and MinMax 38), or is he still in the maze and in thrall to MinMax 38?

[Anteros]

Presumably he gets reset. We know they normally died in the tower room, so they were getting past him somehow each time.

It doesn't really make sense for him to get reset, but oh well.

[AtomicKitKat]

So there's been another twork in the plot, and Twogath is going to be stuck tworaging in the Klik twotress two a while until such time as he can persuade Ward, Bowst and Idle to accompany him to the nearest exit so he can be reunited with Minmax and the GAP, and finally go to the epic showdown of ultimate destiny against the twomidable Kore. What a series of untwotunate events.:smallcool:

Edit: Since I'm on this tworum, I figured I'd ask. Did anyone else read Ward with a Brooklyn/Italian accent? Like those wannabe gangster Scicilian types.

[Draconi Redfir]

Question about Not-Walter and the Maze of Many. Our Kin freed him, but he was part of Reality 38. Since Reality 38 didn't win, it should reset, so Not-Walter should still be in thrall to MinMax 38. But he seemed to be able to escape the Maze through a portal to Hell (at least, that's where Kin told him to go). So is he now free from the maze (and MinMax 38), or is he still in the maze and in thrall to MinMax 38?

keep in mind that this is likely not "our" not-walter, just an alternate version of him from reality 38. not sure wether or not he's getting reset or cloned or what though.

and i got an email today from kickstarter saying that GAR was going under leagal disputes. i'm assuming this is a good thing for Thunt. the kickstarter page has been taken down at least.

[Bird]

Do people think that Ward is being run by Drasst/Tuck's player? He is little & short & mean.

[Draconi Redfir]

from the look of Thunt's Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/Thunt9) it looks like he has a thing for Onyx. or at least Ruby/Onyx's relationship :P

[Lissou]

Thunt posted a blog, is unhappy with the email that was sent to everyone. He also dissects it. It's not 100% clear if he realises it's a template email automatically sent to all backers in such cases and not something anyone specifically wrote for this situation. I think he realises that but he's ranting anyways, but I'm not completely sure. He's right though that the fact it was sent to all backers does mean they can send messages to all backers. But hey, I've always assumed they can, they just don't do it simply because someone (who isn't the creator of the project) asks them to.

However the blog doesn't answer the question of whether the project being taken down was caused by Thunt or something else. I was expecting him to explain "so the Kickstarter page was taken down after I did A, B and C" but the way the blog goes, I'm not even sure if he's the one responsible.

Either way, my guess is that the people at Kickstarter either forgot the automated email that gets sends to everyone in such cases, or couldn't be bothered to change it (or maybe couldn't change it? The person who cancels projects might not be one of the programmers).

Still I think it's a step in the right direction. I hope.

[Draconi Redfir]

on the bright side nobody will be able to buy nonexistant merch from the guy while the kickstarter is down, right?

[Radar]

on the bright side nobody will be able to buy nonexistant merch from the guy while the kickstarter is down, right?
I'm not sure, but didn't Thun mention at some point that this guy sells the game (or preorders or something) through his own website as well?

[Neoriceisgood]

I'm kinda confused by the whole kickstarter situation... any place I can get a good summary on what happened? Someone stole money? :smalleek:

[Draconi Redfir]

I'm kinda confused by the whole kickstarter situation... any place I can get a good summary on what happened? Someone stole money? :smalleek:

This is a good (if somewhat old) video on the subject. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47AfvPWK5ac)

[Killer Angel]

So there's been another twork in the plot, and Twogath is going to be stuck tworaging in the Klik twotress two a while until such time as he can persuade Ward, Bowst and Idle to accompany him to the nearest exit so he can be reunited with Minmax and the GAP, and finally go to the epic showdown of ultimate destiny against the twomidable Kore. What a series of untwotunate events.:smallcool:

Edit: Since I'm on this tworum, I figured I'd ask.

I hate you. :smalltongue:

[Typewriter]

I'm kinda confused by the whole kickstarter situation... any place I can get a good summary on what happened? Someone stole money? :smalleek:

Someone wanted to make a Goblins game and spoke to Thunt about doing so. Thunt and the guy came up with some ideas and a Kickstarter was born. The kickstarter was run by the guy, not by Thunt. It was a huge success, and after it was complete there were still ways for people to pre-order the game.

After many months Thunt was unable to contact the guy he was in business with. He got suspicious and began trying to get a hold of him via various means. Nothing worked, thus leading Thunt to believe the guy had simply taken the money and disappeared (while continuing to get money from people who are trying to pre-order).

Thunt notified people as to what was going on and contacted Kickstarter. Kickstarter refused to deal with him because, despite the IP being his, he was not in any way, shape, or form involved with the Kickstarter.

Thunt should have gotten a lawyer but instead spent a lot of time and effort going back and forth with the Kickstarter staff who were unable/unwilling to help him because of the fact that he wasn't (officially) involved in the project. My opinion is that he was trying to make the situation go viral by repeatedly posting these conversations he had with them, but it didn't go anywhere.

During all of this he also decided that he was personally at fault and vowed to make the game himself and find a way to distribute it to the backers of the project that he was not officially involved with (he had linked to it and promoted it, but my opinion is that he's more of a victim than anybody else involved) all the while continuing to post updates and warnings to people - basically doing everything except for talk to a lawyer.

And now, somehow, the project page has been taken down and he is freaking out because they (Kickstarter) did something they told him they couldn't do (even though they never had any reason or rationale to help him at all since he was not involved in the project).

tl;dr - Thunt made a deal with the devil, the devil ran off after earning a bunch of money as a kickstarter project creator. Thunt has no official role in anything that's happened and rather than get a lawyer he's done nothing but make the situation harder on himself while repeatedly trying to make the situation go viral. Thunt got screwed hard, people who backed the game got screwed as well. Situation sucks.

[Lissou]

I'm not sure, but didn't Thun mention at some point that this guy sells the game (or preorders or something) through his own website as well?

Yes. And since the Kickstarter ended ages ago, I'm pretty sure that's the only way people could give the guy money at this point. Although maybe the Kickstarter page linked to the guy's website and therefore indirectly caused people to keep giving him money.

[John Cribati]

Yes. And since the Kickstarter ended ages ago, I'm pretty sure that's the only way people could give the guy money at this point. Although maybe the Kickstarter page linked to the guy's website and therefore indirectly caused people to keep giving him money.

That's more or less what he says in the video. Plus, when they don't get their overpriced gear, they sent THunt all the angry emails, because his name and intellectual property are all over the page.

[SaintRidley]

I struggle at times to determine which is greater - the project creator's malfeasance, or Thunt's naivete.

[Killer Angel]

I struggle at times to determine which is greater - the project creator's malfeasance, or Thunt's naivete.

I fear it's a tie. With the bar set high. :smallsigh:

[halfeye]

I struggle at times to determine which is greater - the project creator's malfeasance, or Thunt's naivete.
I'm wondering about that. How is the guy still running a website "selling" stuff if the police are after him?

Are the police after him?

How haven't they caught him if they are?

[Dodom]

Has there been any activity on the guy's site or is the site keeping on collecting donations as it was previously set up? I mean if the site is just keeping running on its own, he could as well be dead.

[halfeye]

Has there been any activity on the guy's site or is the site keeping on collecting donations as it was previously set up? I mean if the site is just keeping running on its own, he could as well be dead.
Yeah, but presumably there's a computer somewhere, why hasn't that been found? Maybe it's rented? so why hasn't the rental company been informed and turned it off? If the cops are after this guy, and with presumably lots of unsatisfied customers, they would have to be, why haven't they found at least who he's renting computer time from yet? It all strikes me as a bit weird.

[Bird]

Yeah, but presumably there's a computer somewhere, why hasn't that been found? Maybe it's rented? so why hasn't the rental company been informed and turned it off? If the cops are after this guy, and with presumably lots of unsatisfied customers, they would have to be, why haven't they found at least who he's renting computer time from yet? It all strikes me as a bit weird.
Without evidence of such, I would not assume that police are after the guy. (And I'm not even sure which police they'd be--the incident and customers and suspect are all in different places, including the internet.) Broadly speaking, lots of stuff goes down that never gets investigated.

[Typewriter]

Without evidence of such, I would not assume that police are after the guy. (And I'm not even sure which police they'd be--the incident and customers and suspect are all in different places, including the internet.) Broadly speaking, lots of stuff goes down that never gets investigated.

Honestly we have no reason to think that any sort of legal action is being pursued against the guy at this point. Thunt is not in 'the know' and as far as I've seen the backers haven't attempted any legal action for not receiving their rewards up to this point. If they did and/or somehow got Kickstarter involved all the guy would have to do is post a message saying, "Still working on the game guys, everything is A-OK", and that would be the end of it for a while.

The fact that the kickstarter page was finally taken down is interesting, hopefully it means Thunt involved a lawyer over a copyright dispute, or perhaps they got concerned at the potential for one, but my (admittedly limited) knowledge makes me think nothing will come of it - Thunt publically (and presumably legally) gave the guy the authority to use his IP. Maybe if they had some sort of contract in place it could have expired or he could claim that the project wasn't completed in a reasonable time expires the use of it, but again I'm pretty ignorant on legal specifics, so who even knows :/

[Lissou]

I'm wondering about that. How is the guy still running a website "selling" stuff if the police are after him?

Are the police after him?

How haven't they caught him if they are?

It doesn't really matter that the police is after him once the website is setup. I once bought a product from a website that turned out to be an hoax that hadn't been maintained in years. Websites don't necessarily just pop out of existence, especially if their original owner has disappeared and can't take it down themself. You can always send cease and desist letters but they're unlikely to accomplish anything if nobody is there to receive them. In the end, you can get to the hosting company but you may have to go to Court before they do anything at all.

The fact that people are spending money on something they'll never get doesn't necessarily mean the guy is getting it, either. He could be dead or in a coma or something. His presence or activity aren't needed at this point.

[halfeye]

It doesn't really matter that the police is after him once the website is setup.
I was sort of thinking maybe the police would find the IP address, and maybe from that the hosters of the website.


I once bought a product from a website that turned out to be an hoax that hadn't been maintained in years.
I'm sorry to hear that.


Websites don't necessarily just pop out of existence, especially if their original owner has disappeared and can't take it down themself. You can always send cease and desist letters but they're unlikely to accomplish anything if nobody is there to receive them. In the end, you can get to the hosting company but you may have to go to Court before they do anything at all.
I was kind of thinking that maybe if the police turned up at the hosting company and said something like "Excuse me, but we're looking for this guy, and he seems to be hosted here, do you by any chance know what he looks like or where he lives?" something useful might come of that, and it seems odd to me as an outsider that nothing like that has happened. Kickstarter is one thing, but he's apparently been selling directly, and in my country there are time limits on non-delivery of goods, after which you can call in trading standards, and eventually the police.


The fact that people are spending money on something they'll never get doesn't necessarily mean the guy is getting it, either. He could be dead or in a coma or something. His presence or activity aren't needed at this point.
Yeah, that's clear.

[Lissou]

Honestly I have no clue if the police is looking for him at all. I've heard of lots of cases where the police pretty much went "well it's an online thing, so it's not my jurisdiction" and it can be very fuzzy whose jurisdiction it is if anyone's. It has a better chance being brought to Court with lawyers involved than being prosecuted. The police isn't going to go chase a guy who may not even have intentionally deceived anyone, just been unable to deliver.

I once had a guy pay me with a fake check (yes, I've had a few things happen to me :P) and I noticed when the check was more than he was supposed to pay me and he wanted me to give him the difference (with a stupid excuse about how the client paid me directly and his fee was part of the check). So I didn't cash it and I did some research to locate the guy, and I had some information about him that I thought could be useful. In the end I was told that nothing could be done, really, and to just not cash the check and try to move on.

It wasn't a huge deal. Disappointing but since I never deposited it, I didn't get hit with any fees. I just wasn't paid, and I didn't deliver the work either since the guy paid me in advance. I suspect he couldn't have cared less about the work itself. But it showed me how the answer often is "well, nothing we can do, even if you have proof and some useful information".

So my guess is that Thunt is in a similar (but much worse) situation, where there isn't really much he can do. Plus he probably tried the civil approach of contacting him, then to go through Kickstarter to resolve it peacefully, etc. I doubt his first reaction was to go to the police. They might still not be involved in any of it (or did he say they are now?)

[Vinyadan]

I think Thunt is completely right in trying to take action against this guy. The Kickstarter did show his name and work, those who backed it were his fans, and I think he personally advertised it. This means that there was a huge potential for damage against Thunt's image.

The guy lives beyond the border, which makes things more difficult.

At the same time, Kickstarter did not help him, because he wasn't the creator of the campaign and he probably didn't use a legal back then. Kickstarter used a lot of excuses.

The guy now has lost the permission to use Thunt's intellectual property. The contract said that he would lose it, if he had not produced the game in a certain date, which has expired. That's why there currently is a IP fight about the project, and why the Kickstarter was taken down.

Thunt also took legal action against the guy, or is strongly willing to do so (I mean, I never read a word from him saying "I have taken legal action", but it seems strongly implied in a couple of things he wrote).

However, the police cannot take down just any website. There are international laws about this, and the USA probably have an advantage due to their role in the birth and maintaining the Internet, but, if the website is hosted by a company whose servers are situated on (e.g.) a Caribbean island, then it's likely out of their reach and jurisdiction. There are exceptions for very heavy offences, I think (terrorism and human trafficking in its various forms), but I don't really think this case belongs to this class.

While I wouldn't be so open about the situation as Thunt is, I do understand that he is trying to show his personal situation and to explain his own role to his fans. I also hope the money gets back. The project was actually kickstarted before there was a modification in the contract saying that proposers of the project are obliged to deliver if they get the money, so I don't think it will be so easy.

[Neoriceisgood]

I'm kinda shocked at all the stuff Thunt always gets into & has going on. :smallconfused:

[The Succubus]

I feel really sorry for the guy. No one should have to go through all this stuff, including having their personal details sent to thousands of angry people.

[AtomicKitKat]

I hate you. :smalltongue:

Your hate two me is only natural. It is the result of realising your twotune to run into someone who enjoys wordplay enough to twogo all sense of humility to mess with the twobidden art.:smallwink:

[Typewriter]

I think Thunt is completely right in trying to take action against this guy. The Kickstarter did show his name and work, those who backed it were his fans, and I think he personally advertised it. This means that there was a huge potential for damage against Thunt's image.

The guy lives beyond the border, which makes things more difficult.

At the same time, Kickstarter did not help him, because he wasn't the creator of the campaign and he probably didn't use a legal back then. Kickstarter used a lot of excuses.


To my knowledge Kickstarter has used one excuse - you aren't the project creator and therefore we you have no authority regarding the project and we can not communicate with you.



The guy now has lost the permission to use Thunt's intellectual property. The contract said that he would lose it, if he had not produced the game in a certain date, which has expired. That's why there currently is a IP fight about the project, and why the Kickstarter was taken down.

Did he? I don't remember ever reading about any sort of timeframe on the project - I mean, there could be and this could be happening, but as far as I know this is just conjecture, and considering Thunts vocal behavior up to this point I imagine we would have heard something about it if this was the case.



Thunt also took legal action against the guy, or is strongly willing to do so (I mean, I never read a word from him saying "I have taken legal action", but it seems strongly implied in a couple of things he wrote).

As of now Thunt has filed a DMCA takedown request with Kickstarter. I have seen nothing to make me think that he has done anything more up to this point besides complain to anyone who will listen. My reasons for thinking this are twofold - first, if any sort of legal proceedings were going on Thunt would be talking about them - he can't keep his mouth shut regarding the subject, he seems deadset on posting every single bit of activity that occurs. Secondly, and it sort of ties into the first - I imagine that any lawyer worth a cent would tell Thunt to stop talking about what is going on in a public setting.

As far as the DMCA thing goes I imagine it's going to blow up in his face. He filed a takedown request for something he authorized - I'm pretty sure he can't just revoke it. That page was created legally and it continues to be legal for it to exist until Thunt takes someone to court. IP law generally doesn't work on the foundation that you can just change your mind about something.



However, the police cannot take down just any website. There are international laws about this, and the USA probably have an advantage due to their role in the birth and maintaining the Internet, but, if the website is hosted by a company whose servers are situated on (e.g.) a Caribbean island, then it's likely out of their reach and jurisdiction. There are exceptions for very heavy offences, I think (terrorism and human trafficking in its various forms), but I don't really think this case belongs to this class.

People keep talking about the police - again, I feel lost - has anyone actually contacted the police? As near as I can tell the guy hasn't actually done anything illegal - he's obviously not completing the project, and that's something he can/should be taken to court for, but failure to complete a contract is not something the police get involved in most of the time. At best Thunt could probably get the guys site(s) taken down and sue for control of the project based off of the fact that the guy is misusing the authority to use the IP that he was granted in a way that harms Goblins.



While I wouldn't be so open about the situation as Thunt is, I do understand that he is trying to show his personal situation and to explain his own role to his fans. I also hope the money gets back. The project was actually kickstarted before there was a modification in the contract saying that proposers of the project are obliged to deliver if they get the money, so I don't think it will be so easy.

I definitely understand where Thunt is coming from in regards to being open with his fans, but every time he posts something I just cringe. His most recent e-mail to Kickstarter, for example - he's trying to talk down to them and/or intimidate them for not doing what he wanted, when the fact of the matter is that they did nothing wrong. He then goes on to say that the project is no longer happening, that nobody will receive anything... but he has no authority to be the one to state that because he is not officially involved in the project. He keeps explaining to them the situation, and the fact of the matter is that he's right in a very specific way. But he's not right in his dealings with Kickstarter because he is so focused on the fact that he's right that he repeatedly ignores his own lack of authority in the situation.

I like Thunt, I very nearly backed this project (I actually pledged 99 dollars, then backed out at the last second because, at the time, I thought Thunt was leading the project and I didn't trust him to fulfill), but I really wish he would try to understand the actual situation that's happening instead of getting so hung up on the way he thinks things should go.

[Daywalker1983]

*snip*

I wholeheartedly agree.

On top of all that I wonder if his willingness to once more drag those things into the public is gonna come back to bite him in the posterior.

I don't think Kickstarter or anyone else will take too kindly to having the minutiae of this case trodden out to the internet.

Is there any objective source that confirms Evertide going belly up? I'm not saying THunt is lying, not at all, but we have no evidence. All THunt has done is forcing Kickstarter to take down his artwork, which technically is not connected to the Kickstarter. Shouldn't there be angy rants about how Evertide has talen money for mewrchandise and has not delivered?

And did THunt really think Kickstarter wasn't able to mail the backers, in the way that there wasn't a "mail all backers" button? It was pretty clear to me that they just said they wouldn't do it.

[halfeye]

To my knowledge Kickstarter has used one excuse - you aren't the project creator and therefore we you have no authority regarding the project and we can not communicate with you.
That covers the kickstarter situation. Probably.


People keep talking about the police - again, I feel lost - has anyone actually contacted the police? As near as I can tell the guy hasn't actually done anything illegal - he's obviously not completing the project, and that's something he can/should be taken to court for, but failure to complete a contract is not something the police get involved in most of the time. At best Thunt could probably get the guys site(s) taken down and sue for control of the project based off of the fact that the guy is misusing the authority to use the IP that he was granted in a way that harms Goblins.
The guy allegedly has a website that is taking money, has been for years, and has so far not delivered any products. Any and all of the people who have paid money to that site and not received the product they ordered within a set amount of time (in the UK it would be 28 days, in the USA that may well vary, but I'm pretty sure there will have been a time limit) can complain to the police. If the police get a complaint worth $10, they probably won't bother that much, if they get a thousand $10 complaints, that's a pretty big amount of money, and they ought to start taking notice.

However, that doesn't seem to be happening, which is odd in my opinion.

[Lethologica]

That covers the kickstarter situation. Probably.


The guy allegedly has a website that is taking money, has been for years, and has so far not delivered any products. Any and all of the people who have paid money to that site and not received the product they ordered within a set amount of time (in the UK it would be 28 days, in the USA that may well vary, but I'm pretty sure there will have been a time limit) can complain to the police. If the police get a complaint worth $10, they probably won't bother that much, if they get a thousand $10 complaints, that's a pretty big amount of money, and they ought to start taking notice.

However, that doesn't seem to be happening, which is odd in my opinion.
At a guess, only a fraction of the victims bothered reporting, and a significant number that did reported to the wrong jurisdiction--for that matter, what is the correct agency to handle this? And then some fraction of those people got brushed off for not having large enough individual complaints.

[Typewriter]

I wholeheartedly agree.

On top of all that I wonder if his willingness to once more drag those things into the public is gonna come back to bite him in the posterior.

I don't think Kickstarter or anyone else will take too kindly to having the minutiae of this case trodden out to the internet.

Is there any objective source that confirms Evertide going belly up? I'm not saying THunt is lying, not at all, but we have no evidence. All THunt has done is forcing Kickstarter to take down his artwork, which technically is not connected to the Kickstarter. Shouldn't there be angy rants about how Evertide has talen money for mewrchandise and has not delivered?

And did THunt really think Kickstarter wasn't able to mail the backers, in the way that there wasn't a "mail all backers" button? It was pretty clear to me that they just said they wouldn't do it.

I hope it doesn't but it seems like it very easily could. All the guy would have to say at this point is that Thunt was harassing him and turned his followers on him. There is zero evidence that the guy did anything 'wrong' other than failing to complete the project 'yet'. He could say that he received excessive e-mails from Thunt and took his time responding, but by the time he was ready to explain the 'delays' he started receiving threats and harassment from Thunts fans so he instead laid low.


That covers the kickstarter situation. Probably.


The guy allegedly has a website that is taking money, has been for years, and has so far not delivered any products. Any and all of the people who have paid money to that site and not received the product they ordered within a set amount of time (in the UK it would be 28 days, in the USA that may well vary, but I'm pretty sure there will have been a time limit) can complain to the police. If the police get a complaint worth $10, they probably won't bother that much, if they get a thousand $10 complaints, that's a pretty big amount of money, and they ought to start taking notice.

However, that doesn't seem to be happening, which is odd in my opinion.

Is that the case even when it comes to pre-purchases - I mean, people spent money on a project that will eventually result in a finished project - I imagine that people should be eligible for a refund if they request it, but I also imagine the pre-order nature of the situation to to complicate things when it comes to complaints. Plus, as you said, I'm not sure how many people are even caring to complain.


At a guess, only a fraction of the victims bothered reporting, and a significant number that did reported to the wrong jurisdiction--for that matter, what is the correct agency to handle this? And then some fraction of those people got brushed off for not having large enough individual complaints.

I'd be willing to guess that anyone who has problems/complaints with the project that went through Kickstarter is trying to go through Kickstarter to get the situation resolved. Or they just don't know there is a situation. As far as the website - for all we know the number of people ordering it through there was very small. Of those, a few could have done chargebacks when they realized they were being scammed, some could have complained and/or requested a refund then lost interest. I really doubt many people (anyone at all, really) are going to the police because a board game they pre-ordered didn't get delivered and they have failed to get a refund.

[BannedInSchool]

IANAL (but I have been watching Better Call Saul), but it seems to me that getting a civil lawsuit brought against whatshisface would be easier than getting whatever jurisdiction it might fall into interested in a criminal case.

Now the more frustrating annoying thing out of this is that I can imagine in general this will become "Hey, remember when Thunt stole all that money with Kickstarter?". :smalltongue:

[Vinyadan]

@ Typewriter: This is a comment he posted two weeks ago to the video linked above: "It is a crime, yes. I am going to crush him legally. Unfortunately, I suspect the money is probably gone. Still... it's on. The maddening thing, is that all he had to do, was talk to me. Grrrr.

As far as copyrights are concerned, our contract does state that if the game isn't made by a certain date, ALL of the art, etc becomes mine. That date has passed, so at least he can't sue me."

I don't know how police works in North America, but, where I live, if money disappears, you can report to them and they will investigate the thing, even if it's not yours.

The Evertide website has no weblinks to G:AR anymore, even though the page can still be accessed through direct link.

As I said, I understand the situation in which Thunt is, but I wouldn't be so loud, if I were him - I would actually hold my mouth shut (and I would say different things, if I had to). What I meant with excuses was, e.g., the "we cannot email all the backers", which could be interpreted as a technical issue (while it probably was to be read as "we cannot email all the backers on your demand"). Sending Thunt's home address (if he didn't mean his homepage) was quite a blunder. The title to the last blog post, however, was so over the top, I can't think of something worse.

I also am not accusing Kickstarter for not helping before, because they must act as a business firm, and you can't just take everyone's word as true.

[Lissou]

I was very confused by the "home address" thing so I went through the email and tried to find said home address. I did eventually find a street address. I would never have realised it was his home address had he not said it. I would never have even clicked that link (although I'm sure some people did). It strikes me as incredibly unwise for him to make this post, not just because he'd being Godwinny in it, but because he's drawing attention to something most people probably would never have noticed. Why he didn't ask them in private to take down the address or something, I'm not sure. Even just shutting up about it would have yielded better results. Kickstarter effed up by providing the link in question, but it could have gone completely unnoticed. Thunt definitely made it worse here.

I understand Tarol's frustration about the whole thing, but I'm forced to admit Kickstarter has been acting exactly as I would have expected them to.

I'm sure Tarol is keeping secrets the details of the legal thing. It's not like he's never kept secret or is unable to keep them. Just because he shares a lot otherwise doesn't mean he shares everything. Since he started legal proceedings, there might be a lawyer involved. If so, whatever is happening right now is not something we're going to be aware of, except for thing that are already going to reach people like the Kickstarter email thing.

I hope things turn out for the best with this whole issue. The game seemed awesome and I hope it gets released eventually. I do wish Tarol didn't take all the responsibility on his shoulders because that's a lot to carry and it must be frustrating and overwhelming, but since he's already made the decision to take control over the project, I hope he'll be successful with it.

[Typewriter]

@ Typewriter: This is a comment he posted two weeks ago to the video linked above: "It is a crime, yes. I am going to crush him legally. Unfortunately, I suspect the money is probably gone. Still... it's on. The maddening thing, is that all he had to do, was talk to me. Grrrr.

As far as copyrights are concerned, our contract does state that if the game isn't made by a certain date, ALL of the art, etc becomes mine. That date has passed, so at least he can't sue me."

I don't know how police works in North America, but, where I live, if money disappears, you can report to them and they will investigate the thing, even if it's not yours.

The Evertide website has no weblinks to G:AR anymore, even though the page can still be accessed through direct link.

As I said, I understand the situation in which Thunt is, but I wouldn't be so loud, if I were him - I would actually hold my mouth shut (and I would say different things, if I had to). What I meant with excuses was, e.g., the "we cannot email all the backers", which could be interpreted as a technical issue (while it probably was to be read as "we cannot email all the backers on your demand"). Sending Thunt's home address (if he didn't mean his homepage) was quite a blunder. The title to the last blog post, however, was so over the top, I can't think of something worse.

I also am not accusing Kickstarter for not helping before, because they must act as a business firm, and you can't just take everyone's word as true.

Ah, I did miss that post of his. I hope this works out for him, but I just can't understand what he would be doing sending out his own notices and e-mails to Kickstarter and the like if he is undergoing legal action... it really seems like something his lawyer should be doing, not him. I am happy, at least, to know the contract he worked on the guy with had a provision in there returning the IP to him - I'm honestly curious as to how the legality of it will turn out. He gave away the rights to his IP for a project that people could pay in advance for, which people did, and now the thing they purchased no longer belongs to the seller to deliver. It's... interesting, to say the least.

As for the police in the U.S. - well I'm no expert but I don't think a blind claim is enough to warrant police action, especially when it's a civil, not criminal, matter. If someone stole my money then it's a criminal offense and I would notify the police. If I purchased something and the company failed to deliver it would either be something I handled through my bank or in civil court - failing to deliver on a deal (purchase/contract) is civil, not criminal so police involvement would never come up in the first place.

[halfeye]

As for the police in the U.S. - well I'm no expert but I don't think a blind claim is enough to warrant police action, especially when it's a civil, not criminal, matter. If someone stole my money then it's a criminal offense and I would notify the police. If I purchased something and the company failed to deliver it would either be something I handled through my bank or in civil court - failing to deliver on a deal (purchase/contract) is civil, not criminal so police involvement would never come up in the first place.
Well I certainly don't claim to understand US law.

Does deliberate fraud not cross the line from civil to criminal in the USA?

[Starbuck_II]

Back to the comic, we found out who was talking: another Klik.
I like the way this story is going. Starting to be funny again.

[Typewriter]

Well I certainly don't claim to understand US law.

Does deliberate fraud not cross the line from civil to criminal in the USA?

Fraud can be criminal, but requires evidence and as of right now the guy hasn't delivered, but there is absolutely zero evidence of criminal wrongdoing, aka fraud. Me going to the police and saying somebody committed fraud probably wouldn't go anywhere.


Back to the comic, we found out who was talking: another Klik.
I like the way this story is going. Starting to be funny again.

I like the fact that it's moving (I can't help but wonder if the Patreon funding isn't a good motivator for him) but I'm sort of annoyed with the current focus of the comic. After years we finally get to the GAP, then Thunt talks about the following three pages blowing minds and then... six month hiatus. Was the mind blowing part the fact that Kore looks creepy? Or is it where we are now with the klikked up Forgath. And now we're focusing on new characters instead of the probably more interesting MM + GAP.

What's going on is interesting/funny/fun but I just don't care. Whatever purpose these new characters are going to serve could likely have been accomplished in a quicker simpler way. At with the pace over the last year I think that would have been a good thing.

But again - it is entertaining to read, even if I wish his focus was elsewhere.

[runeghost]

Does anyone else think that the original plan was to kill Forgath in the fight with Kore, and what we're seeing now is Thunt's way of writing himself out of that corner?

[Lissou]

Does anyone else think that the original plan was to kill Forgath in the fight with Kore, and what we're seeing now is Thunt's way of writing himself out of that corner?

I don't think so. Thunt is really good about following long-term plans and having details come up much later. My guess would be that he planned things this way all along, either because the prophecy referred to another moment, or for another reason yet to be explained in the story.

[Neoriceisgood]

I don't think so. Thunt is really good about following long-term plans and having details come up much later. My guess would be that he planned things this way all along, either because the prophecy referred to another moment, or for another reason yet to be explained in the story.

W-woah, new Lissou avatar..?! :smalleek:

[Traab]

Heh, amusing comic. Honestly, I kinda sympathize with Typewriter. Though for me the problem is, this is turning into war and peace with the sheer number of characters. (Ok im exaggerating, sue me) Every time we adjust to the current character list, the party gets split up again, and meets new characters again. The GAP are the only ones who have managed to stay together, aside from dies horribly. And when you have like, 3 different story lines, with an update schedule thats closer to monthly than anything else, it takes way too long for progress to be made, and there are long stretches where your personal favorite crew arent in the updates. Like the long gap between The GAP meeting Kore, and Minmax and Forgath getting through the maze of many. Each was an awesome story true, but it left the cliff hangar hanging for WAAAAAY too long.

[Lissou]

W-woah, new Lissou avatar..?! :smalleek:

Haha, sorry for confusing you :P Yes, I guess it had been years since I changed it, hadn't it?

[Daywalker1983]

I don't think so. Thunt is really good about following long-term plans and having details come up much later. My guess would be that he planned things this way all along, either because the prophecy referred to another moment, or for another reason yet to be explained in the story.

One of those Details just came back to bite him, though. Ward called himself a Klik, which makes no sense. Klik was calld that because he went Klik, and he was given the name by Dies. Why would he call himself a Klik, when it's just the way his language sounds to us? And even if he would there is no way Ward could know this. It would also be awfully convenient if they in Fact happened to call themselves Klik, and that translates to our language as Klik, too. He confuses Auhtor knowledge and character knowledge.

In other news, he doesn't have a lawyer yet. I'm not saying he deserves all of this, but some days it seems he keeps on asking for more.

[Squark]

One of those Details just came back to bite him, though. Ward called himself a Klik, which makes no sense. Klik was calld that because he went Klik, and he was given the name by Dies. Why would he call himself a Klik, when it's just the way his language sounds to us? And even if he would there is no way Ward could know this. It would also be awfully convenient if they in Fact happened to call themselves Klik, and that translates to our language as Klik, too. He confuses Auhtor knowledge and character knowledge.

In other news, he doesn't have a lawyer yet. I'm not saying he deserves all of this, but some days it seems he keeps on asking for more.

Presumably Ward picked the name up from what the people around him called his kind.

[Draconi Redfir]

In other news, he doesn't have a lawyer yet. I'm not saying he deserves all of this, but some days it seems he keeps on asking for more.

For one thing: (https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/590279198612201473)

For annother: Rather then complaining about it, have you perhaps tried going on twitter and (politely) suggesting that he do so? some people might not be aware of the obvious under stress. If you haven't done this, i highly reccond either doing it, or not complaining.

[Lizard Lord]

Heh, amusing comic. Honestly, I kinda sympathize with Typewriter. Though for me the problem is, this is turning into war and peace with the sheer number of characters. (Ok im exaggerating, sue me) Every time we adjust to the current character list, the party gets split up again, and meets new characters again. The GAP are the only ones who have managed to stay together, aside from dies horribly. And when you have like, 3 different story lines, with an update schedule thats closer to monthly than anything else, it takes way too long for progress to be made, and there are long stretches where your personal favorite crew arent in the updates. Like the long gap between The GAP meeting Kore, and Minmax and Forgath getting through the maze of many. Each was an awesome story true, but it left the cliff hangar hanging for WAAAAAY too long.

I know this wasn't really the point of your post, but does Dies even count as part of the GAP? Sure he is part of the same tribe but he wasn't there when the Goblins created their Adventuring Party.

[Draconi Redfir]

Yeah, as of yet Dies doesn't even have any adventuring levels, all the "rpgress" he's made in terms of powers and abilities have mainly come from his klik-arm and now magic-arm. plus being carried along by other stronger people, one of wich IS an adventurer.

[Lissou]

As far as I know Dies doesn't have an Adventurer's class or levels, so he's not part of the party AND not and adventurer... so that really only leaves the G out of "GAP". I think it's safe to say he's a different group, but I suspect Traab meant "the goblins from the warcamp" in a more general way.

And the GAP did get split up for a while while Fumbles was captured.

[Quild]

For one thing: (https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/590279198612201473)

It's quite sad.
I had legal issues that started two years ago against the owner of the flat I rent and way before it went to court, I was able to get legal advice for free from either my town hall, from an association (which is where I went and met a retired lawyer) or from my insurance company.

And when I had to pay for a lawyer, the "legal protection" I had from my insurance company participated.
Is there nothing at all of that in the US?

[ObadiahtheSlim]

And when I had to pay for a lawyer, the "legal protection" I had from my insurance company participated.
Is there nothing at all of that in the US?

Depends. You can call up various government departments to get some simple advice. The state or federal Attorney General's office can be a good place to start.

[Traab]

As far as I know Dies doesn't have an Adventurer's class or levels, so he's not part of the party AND not and adventurer... so that really only leaves the G out of "GAP". I think it's safe to say he's a different group, but I suspect Traab meant "the goblins from the warcamp" in a more general way.

And the GAP did get split up for a while while Fumbles was captured.

I actually dont count the fumbles in brassmoon thing as a split so much, mainly because he was mostly just gone during that. There wasnt a 6 month long 30 comic series of the adventures of fumbles. He had a few comics to show how screwed up things were for him but the focus stayed on the GAP. And yeah, you are right, dies isnt part of the actual gap, I was talking about the goblin war camp crew like you said.

[Squark]

It's quite sad.
I had legal issues that started two years ago against the owner of the flat I rent and way before it went to court, I was able to get legal advice for free from either my town hall, from an association (which is where I went and met a retired lawyer) or from my insurance company.

And when I had to pay for a lawyer, the "legal protection" I had from my insurance company participated.
Is there nothing at all of that in the US?

From what I know of from a similar situation (When Rusty and Co. received a C&D from WOTC after their kickstarter), most lawyers do actually give basic legal advice for free if they believe you're serious about wanting to hire one, since they don't want you to make the situation worse before you hire them on.

[Lissou]

And when I had to pay for a lawyer, the "legal protection" I had from my insurance company participated.
Is there nothing at all of that in the US?

Thunt is in Canada. Which may make things harder because Kickstarter is in the US so he needs to find a lawyer who's qualified in Internet and US law. I guess he might get a US lawyer but it's probably a good idea to find someone who is local enough, in case they need to meet up and talk and stuff.

[Daywalker1983]

For one thing: (https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/590279198612201473)

For annother: Rather then complaining about it, have you perhaps tried going on twitter and (politely) suggesting that he do so? some people might not be aware of the obvious under stress. If you haven't done this, i highly reccond either doing it, or not complaining.

He strongly implied he had legal council, so there was no reason. And if being embezzled to the tune of 200K doesn't make him get a lawyer some random guy on his twitter certainly won't.
Also, his passive agreesive whining about how Kicktarter could have reacted doesn't help his cause. There is at least one guy who tought he was serious and another who felt insulted by being belittled by THunt in his first Kickstarter rant. Whie I certainly think the second guy was being overly sensistive I also think that THunt MO as of now is going to come back to somewhere down the road.

I normally wouldn't use such harsh language, but the fictional Kickstarter thing was too much, coming from a guy in his forties.

[Draconi Redfir]

Again, people don't think right under stress, the obvious awnser can be completely thrown away by your mind for no reason at all. just the other month i was crossing the street with the lights in my favor and one of the cars next to me started turning the corner, heading right for me. i saw, and rather then move out of the way like was most logical, i froze in place, like a deer in the headlights as i just kinda STARED at the car. running three feet would have prevented it all but i just didn't THINK about it because i was terrified! Thankfully for me the car stopped before it hit me after someone behind him honked his horn.

Thunt needs someone to honk a horn at HIM, wake him up and point him in the right direction, hell if you KNOW a lawyer or a firm that can help him get them to approach him!

[Quild]

wow, I had missed the blog update about KS's mail, and... wow. They messed up big time for sure, but it's somehow funny how Thunt misunderstand things. Especially:


Because the project already ended successfully, your pledge hasn’t been affected. The creator should still be able to move forward with the project (and send any unfulfilled rewards).

the project already ended => The end date was reached
successfully => Main goal was reached as well
your pledge hasn't been affected => You're in the same situation that right before we closed the page.
The creator => Richard
should => If he wants it


Kickstarter never ever said most of what Thunt think they did. They especially didn't confirm that anyone would get his reward but just that the creator was still able to send the reward and that if he did not, it was in no way KS' choice but his own.


Why would they direct backers to a page with Thunt's home address, idk.

But at least Thunt can start to collect the mail address of those expecting something.

[Vinyadan]

What really surprised me today? This tweet:

https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/590245807401512960

[Lissou]

Well that sucks. Thunt has been vocal enough about it that they probably assumed he was the one to do it, which I'm sure is exactly why someone hacked his email and sent those things.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

What really surprised me today? This tweet:

https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/590245807401512960

Or he sent the emails in a fit of rage/frustration and is pulling the "it wasn't me, i was hacked" excuse.

[The Glyphstone]

Eh, doesn't feel like Thunt. He's very passive-aggressive, a profanity-laden email with rude demands would be out of character for him from what we've seen (and his habit of airing all his dirty laundry out in public means we've seen a lot).

[Lissou]

He's the kind to blame himself for his mistakes years after the fact and take other people's failings as his personal responsibility. But I don't see him claiming he was hacked and that he didn't actually do it. I'm sure the hackers counted on it being the way people would interpret it but I just don't see it.

[Neoriceisgood]

Man every time I enter this thread there's something new. :smalleek:

[Lurkmoar]

Man every time I enter this thread there's something new. :smalleek:

And the worst part is that the new stuff is rarely a Goblins update. :(

[The Glyphstone]

If Thunt updated the comic as often as he gives us intimate details about his personal life and problems, the story would be over by now.

[Vinyadan]

If Thunt updated the comic as often as he gives us intimate details about his personal life and problems, the story would be over by now.

It must also be said that it is much less time-consuming to have problems produced for you, than to produce a comic yourself.

[Starbuck_II]

Maybe he should start a comic about his life. He seems to have enough content. But then he might never post more Goblins.

[runeghost]

Well that sucks. Thunt has been vocal enough about it that they probably assumed he was the one to do it, which I'm sure is exactly why someone hacked his email and sent those things.

Or they may have simply spoofed his email. I'd like to think kickstarter folks are smart enough to spot a spoofed email, but not everyone is savvy enough to realize a spoofed email when they see one.

[Quild]

Or they may have simply spoofed his email. I'd like to think kickstarter folks are smart enough to spot a spoofed email, but not everyone is savvy enough to realize a spoofed email when they see one.

Well, here is what can have happened if I don't miss anything:

- Thunt mail was spoofed, KS didn't detect it and sent a mail to Thunt asking what's wrong with him or being more agressive. For both e-mails.
- Thunt mail was hacked, KS sent a mail to Thunt asking what's wrong with him or being more agressive. Or KS didn't reply but Thunt spotted these mails in his sent box (possibly after having had to change his password). For both e-mails.
- Thunt mail was hacked, KS didn't reply but Thunt spotted the mails in in sent box (possibly after having had to change his password).
- Thunt sent the mails himself and on a second thought, said it wasn't him, possibly before KS' anwer.

Can someone not detect a spoof? :smallconfused:

[Douglas]

Can someone not detect a spoof? :smallconfused:
Spoofed email from addresses can be detected fairly easily if you are looking for it. If you're not expecting it or lack technical expertise, it can slip by unnoticed.

[Neoriceisgood]

And the worst part is that the new stuff is rarely a Goblins update. :(


I know, any time I see this page up near the top on GianTitp I don't think "Oh new update..?" but "Oh god what did Thunt get himself into now..?" :smallfrown:

[-D-]

And now for something completely different. Updates.

[Lizard Lord]

HAHAHAHAHA! :biggrin:

[Bird]

Okay,

I have my nitpicks--the Ears/Complains dialogue feels a bit forced to me. ("Okay no" from Ears? Really?) MinMax doing the teapot song was just brilliant, though. The fact that the GAP has no idea why he's doing it, plus the way it was set up ages ago, makes it work. The fact that he can't rhyme also makes it that much stranger. This was Thunt's best joke in a long time. Loved it.

[Neoriceisgood]

Okay,

I have my nitpicks--the Ears/Complains dialogue feels a bit forced to me. ("Okay no" from Ears? Really?) MinMax doing the teapot song was just brilliant, though. The fact that the GAP has no idea why he's doing it, plus the way it was set up ages ago, makes it work. The fact that he can't rhyme also makes it that much stranger. This was Thunt's best joke in a long time. Loved it.

Agreed, the lack of context from the Goblins' side on this just makes it really funny.

[Quild]

Fumbles seems to be recovering quickly. Power of the mustache!

[-D-]

@Bird: Correction - MinMax can't Rhyme on purpose. This is probably him being clueless about its rhyme.

[Zejety]

@Bird: Correction - MinMax can't Rhyme on purpose. This is probably him being clueless about its rhyme.
This flaw amused me when it was first mentioned and I still find it very charming.^^
Where does the teapot song come from? It feels like a reference to a previous strip but I can't remember it any more. :<

[Kornaki]

This flaw amused me when it was first mentioned and I still find it very charming.^^
Where does the teapot song come from? It feels like a reference to a previous strip but I can't remember it any more. :<

When they were in the maze of many Forgath made him do it.

[Killer Angel]

Oh, my...
I would never have expected it. :smallbiggrin:

...and MinMax' concentration in the 8th panel, before singing, is priceless!

[Lord Torath]

When they were in the maze of many Forgath made him do it.Here (http://www.goblinscomic.org/07082011/). Oh, man, I'm still cracking up! That was great!

[halfeye]

This flaw amused me when it was first mentioned and I still find it very charming.^^
Where does the teapot song come from? It feels like a reference to a previous strip but I can't remember it any more. :<
In comic I have no clue. IRL it is old, a nursery rhyme.

[John Cribati]

In comic I have no clue. IRL it is old, a nursery rhyme.

For the record:

I'm a little teapot, short and stout
Here is my handle, here is my spout
When I get all steamed up, Hear me shout
Tip me over and pour me out!

In some places, it's "I just shout."

[Traab]

The best part is, I can now totally see the goblins resorting to that at some distant point in the future. They have no idea its a fake thing meant for forgath to mock minmax, because it "worked".

[Bird]

@Bird: Correction - MinMax can't Rhyme on purpose. This is probably him being clueless about its rhyme.
Indeed, I know--so either he learned this non-rhyming version, or when he tries to rhyme it comes out like this, I suppose.

[Douglas]

Indeed, I know--so either he learned this non-rhyming version, or when he tries to rhyme it comes out like this, I suppose.
When he did it in the Maze of Many, the comic as originally posted used the normal rhyming version. Thunt altered and reposted it when someone reminded him about Minmax being unable to rhyme on purpose.

[Bird]

No kidding? I didn't know that. Happy accident, then--the non-rhyming version is so much stranger & funnier than the original would be.

[Lurkmoar]

This update made me laugh. And when a webcomic makes me smile I consider it praise worthy.

Thaco and Complains stunned(?) expressions were great.

[SaintRidley]

Huh. It's been a long time since Goblins made me laugh. Good work, Thunt.

[Neoriceisgood]

When he did it in the Maze of Many, the comic as originally posted used the normal rhyming version. Thunt altered and reposted it when someone reminded him about Minmax being unable to rhyme on purpose.

Heheh, fun little factoid. :smalltongue:

[Daywalker1983]

Heheh, fun little factoid. :smalltongue:

I liked the last page, too, altough I think the panel distribution could have been improved.

I hope the consensus here is right and Bowst is really the new charatcer of one the players. As Forgath himself pointed out, he is like MM, only a little bit meaner and slightly smarter. Generally I think the charcters are redundant, especially in their interaction with Forgath. And since Idle is confirmed as a main charcter but Bowst is not, I hope he meets an untimely end. As for the pacing, these two characters mess it up even more. In a way I'd very much like to know at which point in the story we are. It feels like the opening chapters although a lot seems to have happened as of now, and that is confusing. It isn't apparent in the writing.

Shame though, that THunt still hasn't gotten a handle on his perpective problems. Although someone linked to the maze of many, and the mugging has become less intrusive. So that's good.

And THunt seems to have a lawyer since he shut up about the Kickstarter. That's good, too.

[Neoriceisgood]

I liked the last page, too, altough I think the panel distribution could have been improved.

I hope the consensus here is right and Bowst is really the new charatcer of one the players. As Forgath himself pointed out, he is like MM, only a little bit meaner and slightly smarter. Generally I think the charcters are redundant, especially in their interaction with Forgath. And since Idle is confirmed as a main charcter but Bowst is not, I hope he meets an untimely end. As for the pacing, these two characters mess it up even more. In a way I'd very much like to know at which point in the story we are. It feels like the opening chapters although a lot seems to have happened as of now, and that is confusing. It isn't apparent in the writing.

Shame though, that THunt still hasn't gotten a handle on his perpective problems. Although someone linked to the maze of many, and the mugging has become less intrusive. So that's good.

And THunt seems to have a lawyer since he shut up about the Kickstarter. That's good, too.


Yeah Bowst's behavior reminds me a lot of one of the constantly dying player guys. Wouldn't surprise me if he somehow was one.

[Gift Jeraff]

New comic is up.
The person marked is going to affect the dungeon with manifestations of their personal demons and the goblins will see that Minmax loves a monster and is actually a decent person blah blah blah.

[Lethologica]

Risk aversion is a healthy heuristic in a dungeon, doubly so for a dungeon designed by Thunt. That is all.

[Killer Angel]

I’d say that we should enjoy this light-hearted tone, ‘til we can... :smallwink:

[Lurkmoar]

New comic is up.
The person marked is going to affect the dungeon with manifestations of their personal demons and the goblins will see that Minmax loves a monster and is actually a decent person blah blah blah.

That makes sense, but I suppose we'll see what we'll see.

Still tickles me pink to see Minmax's armor keep changing when he says a color.

[Quild]

New comic is up.
The person marked is going to affect the dungeon with manifestations of their personal demons and the goblins will see that Minmax loves a monster and is actually a decent person blah blah blah.

Thaco may have to say something to quiet Minmax who maybe wouldn't go out of the room otherwise.
Or Ears will be the one taking the risk on him.
Or Fumbles will randomly say something.
Or Names will complain at Minmax complaining (however I would expect Minmax to loudly and briefly triumph if that was to happen).

[-D-]

I’d say that we should enjoy this light-hearted tone, ‘til we can... :smallwink:
God I hope Fumbles doesn't die horribly :smallwink:

[Lissou]

Thaco may have to say something to quiet Minmax who maybe wouldn't go out of the room otherwise.
Or Ears will be the one taking the risk on him.
Or Fumbles will randomly say something.
Or Names will complain at Minmax complaining (however I would expect Minmax to loudly and briefly triumph if that was to happen).

I think they all left the room already, though. I assumed it only affected people inside the room (or it's going to be a pain for them to do the whole dungeon in silence).

[Lord Torath]

Shaded version's up (http://www.goblinscomic.org/). The tunnel looks much better!

[Neoriceisgood]

That page was Maxo Kickaxo. :smallmad:


I will say that as many complaints as I have about Goblins as a whole, a lot of the character interactions are pretty fun.

[Lizard Lord]

Minmax and Vorpal are now bros for life. :smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

I love todays update, but I have to ask. Ummm, does senor vorpal even HAVE a weapon? What is he going to do? BITE any monster that shows up? He is totally worthless right now. He is 2/11ths of every class, his only feat is DODGE, he has no gear other than the epic stache, what exactly is he going to do? Absorb a single attack then die? Seriously, they had better hope the first thing they fight is goblin sized and has armor and a weapon.

[Lizard Lord]

I love todays update, but I have to ask. Ummm, does senor vorpal even HAVE a weapon? What is he going to do? BITE any monster that shows up? He is totally worthless right now. He is 2/11ths of every class, his only feat is DODGE, he has no gear other than the epic stache, what exactly is he going to do? Absorb a single attack then die? Seriously, they had better hope the first thing they fight is goblin sized and has armor and a weapon.

Well he has 2/11ths of a monk's unarmed attack. :smallwink:

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah, he can cast 2/11's of any spell on Druid, Bard, Cleric, or Wiz spell list. So any cantrips I guess.

Ooh, he has sneak attack too.

[turbo164]

Yeah, he can cast 2/11's of any spell on Druid, Bard, Cleric, or Wiz spell list. So any cantrips I guess.

Ooh, he has sneak attack too.

Well he cast 1/11 of a Sleep spell at level 1 to make someone "kinda drowsy". So...

Druid: 2/11 Entangle = Stick broccoli between their teeth!
Bard: 2/11 Charm Person = They kinda sorta want to kill you less painfully than before!
Cleric: 2/11 Summon Monster I = Summon handful of Suck Badger fur! (actually his mustache might be his Animal Companion at this point...)

[Bird]

I quite like Tha0 picking his teeth in panel three and glancing back at his finger at the end. Great little character moment.

I remember back when Thunt posted that "sounds of Goblins" page before he started updating again, which included the Fumbles/MinMax dialogue from this page. Folks were trying to guess who the goblin in question was. I didn't think it was Fumbles, because I didn't expect his linguistic recovery to be so swift. It's still kinda sad to me that he wants to talk to MinMax more than his brothers, but I understand that after trauma, sometimes it's easier to talk to a near-stranger than a loved one.

[Kislath]

HAAHAHAHA!! I love it!

Since it seems that Minmax is the key to Fumbles' recovery, I wonder if the other goblins will notice and appreciate that.

I suspect that we won't see Forgath rejoining the group for a very long time, and along the way, even without Forgath's guidance, Minmax will eventually become true friends of the goblins.... IF the goblins can STAND it, that is.

[SaintRidley]

Huh. With the shading, I can now actually see the bones in the previous comic.

Also, it appears that this is the beginning of Minmax learning to at least tolerate the goblins.

[Quild]

Fun page, liked it.

MM shares his temper with Names and some stupidity. They don't go along.
MM shares lot of stupidity with Fumbles, they're new BFF!


Also, it appears that this is the beginning of Minmax learning to at least tolerate the goblins.

MM learnt to tolerate monsters already but he's still mad at Names.

[thorgrim29]

MM learnt to tolerate monsters already but he's still mad at Names.

Yeah, he hates him on a personal level, that's like the opposite of racism:smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

Fun page, liked it.

MM shares his temper with Names and some stupidity. They don't go along.
MM shares lot of stupidity with Fumbles, they're new BFF!



MM learnt to tolerate monsters already but he's still mad at Names.

Yeah, but he is still calling them all "stupid goblin" or just "goblin" instead of by their names. I dont think he wants to admit it quite yet. I wouldnt be surprised if in the next comic he realizes he is acting friendly towards a goblin and goes all tsundere on us again.

[Neoriceisgood]

Yeah, but he is still calling them all "stupid goblin" or just "goblin" instead of by their names. I dont think he wants to admit it quite yet. I wouldnt be surprised if in the next comic he realizes he is acting friendly towards a goblin and goes all tsundere on us again.

Tsun tsun Minmax ... kawaii!

[Traab]

Tsun tsun Minmax ... kawaii!

Yeah should have said tsun tsun, but in general I can see him being tsundere. Afterall, its already happened. He really doesnt like these guys, but fumbles can get him to do nice things, and even get him all excited and engaged in a happy chat. Now he just has to realize it and switch back to sulky and angry, and the circle shall be complete!

[The Glyphstone]

He's still in that sort of transitional period...remember how he gave Kin a birthday party, so that she had one 'normal' thing about her and thus he could reason not killing her as a monster. He's still in the mindset of 'monsters are killed for XP', but he can recognize specific individuals like Kin and the GAP are exceptions to the 'rule', for all that the rule is still ingrained in him to some degree.

[Quild]

Yeah, but he is still calling them all "stupid goblin" or just "goblin" instead of by their names. I dont think he wants to admit it quite yet. I wouldnt be surprised if in the next comic he realizes he is acting friendly towards a goblin and goes all tsundere on us again.
Doesn't seem they took time to introduce properly considering the latent animosity in the air.

MM remembers Names, but did not met the others before I think.

The recent course of action is as following:
MM and Forgath tealeports in front of the goblins
Short combat
Arrives Kore
MM helps with the puzzle thing, doesn't introduce
They enter the dungeon.
He immediately goes mourning Forgath. (http://www.goblinscomic.org/01082015/)
The very next thing he does is speaking to Fumbles.

Maybe we missed introduction right before they decide to work together in the search of a secret door, but I'm not certain of that.

[Killer Angel]

Maxo Kickaxo FTW! :smallbiggrin:

[Lissou]

Well, Kickasso fought Minmax before so he knows HIM. Doesn't seem to hold much of a grudge though, since they're getting along.

[Neoriceisgood]

Well, Kickasso fought Minmax before so he knows HIM. Doesn't seem to hold much of a grudge though, since they're getting along.

They did have quite an ...intimate encounter if I recall. :smalltongue:

[-D-]

As intimate as kick to the a balls is :smallbiggrin:.

[Traab]

As intimate as kick to the a balls is :smallbiggrin:.

Uh noooo, a bit more intimate, about as far away from a FOOT to the balls as it gets.

[Vinyadan]

Uh noooo, a bit more intimate, about as far away from a FOOT to the balls as it gets.

You know, I had always thought he had bitten him. Now it all looks pretty tame to me. :smallbiggrin:

[Neoriceisgood]

You know, I had always thought he had bitten him. Now it all looks pretty tame to me. :smallbiggrin:


That's what I always assumed, maybe it's why Minmax feels so connected to Fumbles now. :smallredface:

[CowardlyPaladin]

I was thinking about the fact that Kore is at least level 14 and yet doesn't have any magic items, and how strange that is, and I think I have a reason. I was rereading the comic and when looking the scene when Taps died i realized something, Kore doesn't ever go easy. he is at least level 14 against elderly goblin commoners, even a blind one, and yet he still fights against them the way he fights against everybody else. No effort is made to preserve his bolts. And frankly if that is how he fights things (and this guy does basically nothing but fight) it would figure that he would drain through magic items very quickly. I mean I don't see him as the guy who preserves charges, and when it comes to magic items, I figure he will use them until they break or he losses them without any concern for the long term. I mean when he had the racist axe, he threw it over a cliff, even though it would be useful to keep it, he didn't want there to be a chance for forgoth to use it.....actually no, that was just kinda silly. I think I am just rambling

[Traab]

The thing about magic gear is, its not always obvious. For example, the armor minmax wears doesnt exactly glow, neither does his sword. Both are magical. Not everything is going to glow like Names' sword does. That being said, Kore also has plenty of buffing options for himself and his gear, so its not like he really needs magic gear, if he doesnt have any (which i doubt) because he can put magical buffs on his weapons and such. Also, this world seems fairly low op. A level 14 is like, the ultimate legend of this universe. Minmax and forgath are feeling froggy because they are level TWO at brassmoon. Im not sure what level goblinslayer and saral were, but I wouldnt be surprised if he was half kores level and he practically rules the city as its biggest baddest dudes.

[BannedInSchool]

Kore only plays the first half of the game. He kills things but doesn't take their stuff. :smallsmile:

[CowardlyPaladin]

GS was at least level 6, no higher than level 8, which isn't very impressive all things considered. But the racist axe was obviously magical it was glowing.

Actually for world building details, I was looking at the picture of brassmoon
http://www.goblinscomic.org/09102006/

and I was wondering about how the city looks really out of proportion to the people, and I had two theories.

First, maybe the city was build by giants or something else, and humans just took it over. It would explain how despite how big the walls were, large chunks of the city seem to be deserted.

The second possibility is that the giant empty square in the middle was part of the city that was destroyed during the orc invasion and they hadn't gotten around to repairing it.

[Yuki Akuma]

The third possibility is that Thunt really sucks at perspective and proportions.

[Traab]

Ok cool, I had a feeling goblinslayers level was mostly nailed down, but it proves my point. He was the big man on campus at that (relatively) low level. As for the racist axe, yeah it glowed, but not all magic items do. Forgaths anymug didnt glow, I dont think his hammace glowed either until it was used as a holy symbol. Im just saying that not all things magical glow.

[CowardlyPaladin]

The third possibility is that Thunt really sucks at perspective and proportions.

No, that would be something that was obviously trying to look realistic and came out all wrong and weird, the design of Brassmoon is obviously not a human city, even without the perspective and proportions, the basic design is very dramatically different. Not to mention when it comes to the proportions of most of the other objects (the goblins tents for example) he does just fine.


On the subject of magical items, yes you are right, not all items are going to be obviously and maybe Kore missed them, but the racist axe was literally in his hand, it was glowing, and the blade was floating about an inch away from the handle and he chose to throw it away.

[Grim Portent]

Considering Kore's morality it's entirely possible he just assumes any magic item he finds in the possession of the people he meets to be tainted by evil and destroys or casts them aside.

[Quild]

I must say that I like how Thunt manage to creates interesting dungeons that are definetely not "door/monster/treasure".
There's maybe too many riddles in those, or to my taste, traps that will kill you without a saving throw (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0536.html), but there is good stuff.

I especially liked the "Noe" guy.

[Draconi Redfir]

it's entirely possible that Kore's crossbows have a simmiler enchantment on them to the ones found on the brassmoon city guards, the bolts seem simmiler in size shape and colour. less damage, but an unlimited suply as the quivver gradually resuplies itself.

[Traab]

No, that would be something that was obviously trying to look realistic and came out all wrong and weird, the design of Brassmoon is obviously not a human city, even without the perspective and proportions, the basic design is very dramatically different. Not to mention when it comes to the proportions of most of the other objects (the goblins tents for example) he does just fine.


On the subject of magical items, yes you are right, not all items are going to be obviously and maybe Kore missed them, but the racist axe was literally in his hand, it was glowing, and the blade was floating about an inch away from the handle and he chose to throw it away.

He could have better. After all, while the racist axe would likely help him wipe out forgaths clan, its a stupidly boring weapon against everything else. And thats also assuming he has any freaking idea what it is. I dont think paladin abominations against nature get identify magic item as a spell. He also doesnt have time to inspect every item he stumbles over while killing evil, he has more evil to kill! Plus, he was kinda messed up from that fight. His own gear (which has worked very nicely to date) was heavily damaged. Busted axes, damaged shield gears, crushed helmet, etc etc etc.

Honestly, this was an incredibly close fight for him. Had minmax joined in and they fought smart, it might have ended differently. Oblivious is a VERY dangerous sword, and his armor has taken shots from a balor and remained intact. Have forgath stay in front to soak up crossbow bolts due to his gear to close the distance, switch for minmax to take the front in melee while forgath flanks with that awesome improvised weapon combo of his, and you could see kore do a LOT of bleeding.

[CowardlyPaladin]

He could have better. After all, while the racist axe would likely help him wipe out forgaths clan, its a stupidly boring weapon against everything else. And thats also assuming he has any freaking idea what it is. I dont think paladin abominations against nature get identify magic item as a spell. He also doesnt have time to inspect every item he stumbles over while killing evil, he has more evil to kill! Plus, he was kinda messed up from that fight. His own gear (which has worked very nicely to date) was heavily damaged. Busted axes, damaged shield gears, crushed helmet, etc etc etc.

Honestly, this was an incredibly close fight for him. Had minmax joined in and they fought smart, it might have ended differently. Oblivious is a VERY dangerous sword, and his armor has taken shots from a balor and remained intact. Have forgath stay in front to soak up crossbow bolts due to his gear to close the distance, switch for minmax to take the front in melee while forgath flanks with that awesome improvised weapon combo of his, and you could see kore do a LOT of bleeding.

I see your point about detect evil and what not, through the fact that he lost one of his axes means his choice to throw the racist one away is....odd. But it makes sense that he might just say "all items are evil" until proven otherwise, I could see a band of goblin or gnomes following him around looting the people he kills.

However while that fight was scary, I don't think Kore was in any danger of dying, I think he was in danger of being unconvinced or slowed. Even with everything done, he didn't suffer that much hit point damage, and while its items are broken (which is the real damage done here since he can't fight) but a 14+ paladin has ALOT of hit points, and plenty of magic. Even with oblivious, I don't think they had a chance of killing Kore, but they might have been able to slow him down long enough to escape with Forgoth

[Quild]

New page.

Seeing the room before seeing the four last panels, I wondered how they were going not to trigger the ropes.
Now I have to wonder how they'll get free.
Thac0 already has drawn his left weapon, Ears has his, and MM can easily drawn Oblivious.

Also didn't Thac0 choose the monk class specifically because of Escape Artist Skill?

[Draconi Redfir]

Wonder who the lucky seven who had their characters strung up are. i know i submitted a bugbear, and i'm pretty sure that one in the top left is one, but i'm all but certain it's not the same bugbear. fur is the wrong colour and mine is a female.

good to know there are other bugbear players out there though!:smallbiggrin:

edit: From twitter it looks like he's using about 15 or so. So likely we'll see more corpses in future updates! *crosses fingers*

[The Glyphstone]

The important thing to take from this is the twitter update where we learn Thaco sounds like Mickey Mouse when he talks.

[Kislath]

HAHAHA!! I'm sure they'll find a way out of this mess. They have the good luck of being close to each other, which will let them work together.

[Killer Angel]

HAHAHA!! I'm sure they'll find a way out of this mess. They have the good luck of being close to each other, which will let them work together.

If they will exit from this alive, tnx to an active cooperation between MM and GAP, their "truce" will only improve.

[Traab]

So, remember how I pointed out that fumbles has no gear? Yeah, that wont be a problem after this trap is solved. The floor is covered in dropped weapons and armor, and thats assuming they cant loot the dead bodies themselves. I think the GAP is about to get their chance to gear up. Not counting ears, he is already badass. But complains is still using that +1 sword and has no armor, thaco has his old sword which he may keep, and some clothes with no magical benefit, and fumbles has no weapon or armor. Speaking of Thaco, as a monk, would he be better off using something other than a sword? A stave, some fist wraps, whatever?

[Seerow]

So, remember how I pointed out that fumbles has no gear? Yeah, that wont be a problem after this trap is solved. The floor is covered in dropped weapons and armor, and thats assuming they cant loot the dead bodies themselves. I think the GAP is about to get their chance to gear up. Not counting ears, he is already badass. But complains is still using that +1 sword and has no armor, thaco has his old sword which he may keep, and some clothes with no magical benefit, and fumbles has no weapon or armor. Speaking of Thaco, as a monk, would he be better off using something other than a sword? A stave, some fist wraps, whatever?

It really depends on if his sword counts as a monk weapon or not. If it doesn't picking up a staff or some other monk weapon would let him flurry (make more attacks per round). But it just hasn't come up. I suspect that what weapon is best for him will be whatever one Thunt thinks looks the coolest, with little regard for game mechanics.

[Traab]

It really depends on if his sword counts as a monk weapon or not. If it doesn't picking up a staff or some other monk weapon would let him flurry (make more attacks per round). But it just hasn't come up. I suspect that what weapon is best for him will be whatever one Thunt thinks looks the coolest, with little regard for game mechanics.

Eh maybe, but he does seem to at least try to follow the general guidelines, even if not precisely. The characters get their spell lists and feats, and while there may be some tweaking to how they work, they are still there. You may be right though, since those swords of his are kind of his trademark. Its sort of like how we never saw the axe of prissan and the connected armor statted out, just got some fluff. Because in a few more levels, something that was awesome at level 3 will start being less and less awesome as time goes on. But by leaving the exact stats a mystery, big ears can keep it for a long long time and not be doing terrible damage with it.

Though too be honest, we have only seen stats on a few items. The +1 sword for complains and that brassmoon guy he fought, and the gear minmax and forgath got in the victory room of the maze. I think the crossbow kin used briefly, and thats about it. Even Oblivious and minmaxs armor is stat free. They just have interesting or amusing abilities and are seen to be quite effective.

[Lizard Lord]

Is the bottom left corpse someone's idea of what a half-drow would look like?

[Draconi Redfir]

So, remember how I pointed out that fumbles has no gear? Yeah, that wont be a problem after this trap is solved. The floor is covered in dropped weapons and armor, and thats assuming they cant loot the dead bodies themselves. I think the GAP is about to get their chance to gear up. Not counting ears, he is already badass. But complains is still using that +1 sword and has no armor, thaco has his old sword which he may keep, and some clothes with no magical benefit, and fumbles has no weapon or armor. Speaking of Thaco, as a monk, would he be better off using something other than a sword? A stave, some fist wraps, whatever?

Not to mention it's only half the sword-cane thing he had at the beginning of the comic. i think he lost the other half somewhere during the goblinslayer fight and he was never able to get it back or something.

honestly surprised that never actually came up in-character.

[Lurkmoar]

Is the bottom left corpse someone's idea of what a half-drow would look like?

Maybe... if that's a half drow, I think it is a little too literal for me.

[Lizard Lord]

Maybe... if that's a half drow, I think it is a little too literal for me.

Heh. It just kinda reminds me of Pompey the Half-Elf. Also if I could draw I would totally send in my winged-elf bard/wizard.

[Quild]

Is the bottom left corpse someone's idea of what a half-drow would look like?

It really looks like. Made me smile but I wonder if someone actually sees his half-drow like that.

It reminds me GS in some way. What was his wooden face in the end?


The funny thing about Thunt using some other peoples characters is that Thunt likes (if I'm not mistaken) to physically alter his characters to show how they evolved. Scars mostly. Ears is one of the few that have none.
These characters here, well, they could be level 1 from what we see.

[Quild]

New page

It would be fun if MM's plan worked in the end.
I mean... Maybe he's right when saying no one thought of it.
On another hand, I guess you try it before dying after you've tried everything else.

[Lurkmoar]

"I'm embarrassed to have him as my nemesis." :smallbiggrin:

Interesting update. If it's as simple as not struggling, I doubt there would be as many corpses there. But then there are those strange statues that will probably animate, and if you try and fight them, the ropes get you again...

[eschmenk]

"I'm embarrassed to have him as my nemesis." :smallbiggrin:

Interesting update. If it's as simple as not struggling, I doubt there would be as many corpses there. But then there are those strange statues that will probably animate, and if you try and fight them, the ropes get you again...

If was was as simple as not struggling, I doubt that there would have been any corpses left hanging, unless someone recently died or the corpse was possessed or a zombie or something like that. :smallwink:

[Killer Angel]

MinMax, you're an idiot. :smalltongue:

[GAAD]

Hey everyone, there's a bonus strip!

[BannedInSchool]

Hey everyone, there's a bonus strip!

Bonus strips kill puppies!

[GAAD]

NOT reading them kills kitties!

[Douglas]

#KillAllKittyHaters #SaveTheKittens

This bonus strip is simultaneously amusing and depressing because of how accurate it is.

[CowardlyPaladin]

This pretty accurate describes come online fights that are fan wars, but with some arguments this feels like the Golden Mean Fallacy. Sometimes there isn't middle ground when something like human rights are involved.

[-D-]

How do you view the bonus strip?

[Cen]

How do you view the bonus strip?

https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/607342941078753280/photo/1

[Quild]

I prefer Zach's version (http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2939).
Less pessimistic.

[halfeye]

I prefer Zach's version (http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2939).
Less pessimistic.
No, he's actually not. He's saying his version would be best, not that it's likely. We should aim for it, cut the crazy bigots out, but it won't be simple or easy.

[Seerow]

So, been watching a playthrough of Bloodborne and just want to show this to anyone here who hasn't played:


This boss (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1pDG7bFuSpc/hqdefault.jpg) should look awfully familiar to any Goblins fans. In fact I still call him by the same name as the monster we all know and love (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/goblinscomic/images/b/b6/MrFingers.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110325230815)

[Starbuck_II]

Mr. Fingers!

I say kill all Cake lovers. Pie4Ever! :smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

Mr. Fingers!

I say kill all Cake lovers. Pie4Ever! :smallbiggrin:

What kind of hitler nazi loving monster are you?! All cake wants is to live in peace and be devoured by people properly appreciative of its awesomeness. (I figured godwin had to make an appearance in any discussion of this type)

[Bird]

Not Goblins, but interesting news: the Federal Trade Commission launched a successful action against a deceptive Kickstarter board game campaign (http://www.comicsbeat.com/kickstarter-fail-a-federal-offense/).

Update: Thunt has blogged about it.

[Killer Angel]

Not Goblins, but interesting news: the Federal Trade Commission launched a successful action against a deceptive Kickstarter board game campaign (http://www.comicsbeat.com/kickstarter-fail-a-federal-offense/).


It was only a matter of time. A fraud is a fraud, and the Law needs only to update its field of competence to the new crooks' strategies.

[Typewriter]

Thunt is asking people to spam the FTC for him now. Can someone tell me whether that's insane or not. I feel like it's insane, but maybe I'm missing something. As I read his update I thought, "Oh good, there's now legal precedence for him fighting what happened, and he can finally handle things in an official manner". Then he asked for spam. Is this how that other game got brought to the FTCs attention, or was it a single person, or a unified group approached them?

Also, I never bought the Goblins books so I'm pretty happy to hear I'll get to read the stories in them that were previously unavailable to me. Not sure how I'd feel if I had bought the books just for those stories, but it's been a long time so I don't think it would be that big of a deal.

[Bird]

From my read of things, I wouldn't hold my breath for a refund if I were a backer. Thunt seems happy that in this other case, the developer has been ordered to pay the FTC--but that order's been suspended until his financial situation improves.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Oh boy, I can finally read those bonus strips, and there are two weeks where Thunt can get a little backlog going

[Draconi Redfir]

i dont think so. i think he's saying the latest updates will be put up immidiately after they're done, even if it cuts current book stories in half. but yeah. could be wrong.

[Quild]

I wonder how this publication will work with patreon.

I laughed at the preview of upcoming page. Too bad we had the same gag with Veldrina in oots lately.

[Quild]

New page

I would have been disappointed if monk skills were useless for this while Thaco took this class specifically for the escape tricks.
But I hope it's only a cheesy way to go out of this while there is another way. If this dungeon contains a "have a monk that can defeat the statues in your team or die"-trap that's not really good.

[Vinyadan]

I think I already read the script before. Was it some voting incentive?

[Radar]

New page

I would have been disappointed if monk skills were useless for this while Thaco took this class specifically for the escape tricks.
But I hope it's only a cheesy way to go out of this while there is another way. If this dungeon contains a "have a monk that can defeat the statues in your team or die"-trap that's not really good.
Well, it's more of a be careful enough not to fall for the trap or die dungeon for me - pretty standard fare. And for once MinMax is right - everyone saw that coming.