Becoming an undead warrior

[SamhainGhost]

I need some help in setting my character who I want to become an undead warrior. I am starting at 1st level with 32 point buy. All books are allowed.

[Jack_Simth]

I need some help in setting my character who I want to become an undead warrior. I am starting at 1st level with 32 point buy. All books are allowed.
How undead do you want to be?

The Bone Knight PrC (Five Nations, Eberron specific) gives you a rather lot of undead stuff over several levels, and is mostly intended for a melee entry.
The Curst template (Monsters of Faerun or Lost Empires of Faerun) is a +3 LA template that wrecks your mental scores, but makes you undead and gives you a 'get out of destruction' card for pretty much anything short of disintegration. It's an acquired template, so someone who was crazy could arrange for it to be inflicted upon themselves with a 'helpful' ally.

[SamhainGhost]

How undead do you want to be?

The Bone Knight PrC (Five Nations, Eberron specific) gives you a rather lot of undead stuff over several levels, and is mostly intended for a melee entry.
The Curst template (Monsters of Faerun or Lost Empires of Faerun) is a +3 LA template that wrecks your mental scores, but makes you undead and gives you a 'get out of destruction' card for pretty much anything short of disintegration. It's an acquired template, so someone who was crazy could arrange for it to be inflicted upon themselves with a 'helpful' ally.
I want to be 100% undead. I know I do not want to vampire since they have to suck blood to survive.

[Urpriest]

Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) is the standard way to make an undead character, if you just want to be undead and don't have any other fluff priorities. You can get the template applied at third level, and while you sacrifice a level to apply it you lose a lot less than you would from most other undead templates.

Also, if you haven't used templates before (assuming given your phrasing), you should read the guide in my sig.

[SamhainGhost]

The Necropolitan might be the way to since I want to give my character the Winged Creature template which will turn it into a monstrous human. I have noticed that must of the undead templates require you to be a humanoid but I could be wrong.

Say your character was made into a Necropolitan by an 8th+ level Dread Necromancer (HoH) with the Corpsecrafter line of feats (LM) in an area of Desecration with an evil altar present. Would it get all the bonuses list below?

+2 HP per level, +2 Profane bonus on attack rolls and saving throws, Desecrate plus evil altar.

+2 HP per level, +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity, Dread Necromancer's Undead Mastery class feature.

+2 HP per level, +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength (redundant), Corpsecrafter feat.

+4 Turn Resistance, Bolster Resistance feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

+1d6 Cold damage with all your natural weapons, Deathly Chill feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

+2 Natural armor, Hardened Flesh feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

+4 Initiative, +10 ft. land speed, Nimble Bones feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

[torrasque666]

Say your character was made into a Necropolitan by an 8th+ level Dread Necromancer (HoH) with the Corpsecrafter line of feats (LM) in an area of Desecration with an evil altar present. Would it get all the bonuses list below?

+2 HP per level, +2 Profane bonus on attack rolls and saving throws, Desecrate plus evil altar.

+2 HP per level, +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity, Dread Necromancer's Undead Mastery class feature.

+2 HP per level, +4 Enhancement bonus to Strength (redundant), Corpsecrafter feat.

+4 Turn Resistance, Bolster Resistance feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

+1d6 Cold damage with all your natural weapons, Deathly Chill feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

+2 Natural armor, Hardened Flesh feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

+4 Initiative, +10 ft. land speed, Nimble Bones feat from the Corpsecrafter line.

It may be able to benefit from the Undead Mastery class feature, but not the Corpsecrafter feat line. Those all specify a Necromancy spell and Rituals don't have schools. At least, none of the ones from Savage Species don't. They probably fall under Universal if anything. Any school assigned to them is DM fiat, same with the Ritual of Crucumigration as its not really a spell or anything.

[Urpriest]

The Necropolitan might be the way to since I want to give my character the Winged Creature template which will turn it into a monstrous human. I have noticed that must of the undead templates require you to be a humanoid but I could be wrong.

That's not an option, regardless, since you're starting at level 1, unless you plan to use the Savage Species rituals.

[SamhainGhost]

Is their any way to increase my character's Hp when he is an undead?

[Flickerdart]

I want to be 100% undead. I know I do not want to vampire since they have to suck blood to survive.
Do they? The Monster Manual entry on vampire says nothing of the sort, and even the Libris Mortis rules IIRC just make the vampire go into a frenzy until he drinks some blood if he hasn't had any for X days.

The reason you don't want to be a vampire is that +8 LA is way too high for what you get.

[Urpriest]

Is their any way to increase my character's Hp when he is an undead?

Faerie Mysteries Initiate is the classic way, if one that really annoys some people.

[SamhainGhost]

What would be some other chooses for me to considered beside Necropolitan when choose which undead the character will be. I wish the Graveknight (PF) was for 3.5 instead of the Death Knight. Know that the Advanced Bestiary has Dread versions of the undead with some gaining the evil subtype IIRC.

[Urpriest]

What would be some other chooses for me to considered beside Necropolitan when choose which undead the character will be. I wish the Graveknight (PF) was for 3.5 instead of the Death Knight. Know that the Advanced Bestiary has Dread versions of the undead with some gaining the evil subtype IIRC.

Gravetouched Ghoul has pretty good value for its LA, in comparison with most other undead options.

If you're willing to wait until the late-game to turn undead, Walker in the Wastes gives you the Dry Lich template, which lets you get Cha to hp instead of Con, among other benefits.

[SamhainGhost]

Gravetouched Ghoul has pretty good value for its LA, in comparison with most other undead options.

If you're willing to wait until the late-game to turn undead, Walker in the Wastes gives you the Dry Lich template, which lets you get Cha to hp instead of Con, among other benefits.
I have never played a Dry Lich but from what I have read about it I do like The Dry Lich a lot. If I went with a Dry Lich how would I make my character somewhat good at fight since the character would need to be a Cleric to become a Dry Lich?

Would I better off getting the dragon wing graft instead of taking the winged creature template?

[Jack_Simth]

If you're willing to wait until the late-game to turn undead, Walker in the Wastes gives you the Dry Lich template, which lets you get Cha to hp instead of Con, among other benefits.
Mid-late if you focus. Specifically 13th as a Cleric of Zoser. The requirements for Walker in the Waste are:
Any Nongood (easy - Zoser is CN, so you can be CN or CE)
Heat Endurance (the feat only requires a +2 base Fort save; as a Cleric, you've got it at 1st)
Ability to cast at least three spells of the sand or thirst domains as divine spells. Zoser has the Sand domain, so you get Waste Strider and Black Sand as Divine spells by 3rd level. The Dessicate spell from the Thirst domain is a cleric-2 spell, so you can cast it as a divine spell as well.
Then it's just ten levels of the PrC.

It's not really a warrior-based PrC, though. Half BAB (solvable via DMM(persistent Spell) +Divine Power towards the end; DMM(persistent Spell) and Divine Favour earlier, but still), d6 hit die (solvable via a high Charisma - which is boosted by the template - and various spells for temp HP, but still).

Interestingly, any nongood Cleric or Druid can meet all the requirements by 5th level without much investment (other than the feat "Heat Endurance"):
For the Druid, at 5th, you've got Waste Strider as a 1st (Sand domain spell), Dessicate as 2nd (Thirst domain spell), and Haboob as 3rd (sand domain spell).
For the Cleric, at 5th, you've got Dessicate as a 2nd (Thirst domain spell), Haboob and Black Sand (both Sand domain) as 3rd level spells.
So for a nongood Cleric or Druid, they qualify regardless of domains at 5th so long as they take the Heat Endurance feat tax by then.

I have never played a Dry Lich but from what I have read about it I do like The Dry Lich a lot. If I went with a Dry Lich how would I make my character somewhat good at fight since the character would need to be a Cleric to become a Dry Lich?Any standard melee cleric guidebook will have the spells you want and the methods to keep them up. The most popular method of keeping it up all day being Divine Metamagic (Complete Divine) applied to Persistent Spell (found in Complete Arcane, Deities and Demigods, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Player's Guide to Faerûn, Tome and Blood, and the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#persistentSpell)). Commonly persisted spells being Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm), Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm), and Divine Favour (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divineFavor.htm) - all of which stack with each other.


Would I better off getting the dragon wing graft instead of taking the winged creature template?
Yes. You want to avoid LA. It's seldom worth the expense. If you're going Draconic grafts, though, you might also consider picking up several of the others, just for the DR and to confuse the nature of what you actually are.

[Urpriest]

If I remember right Feathered Wings is cheaper. That said, as a Cleric you'll be able to cast Air Walk, so it's less necessary.

Anyway, Clerics are generally better warrior-types than Fighters, though the d6 hit dice will hurt a little.

[SamhainGhost]

The reason I choose to give my character the winged template was I did not want the problem with having the fiendish wings graft or the flaws associated with get the dragon wings graft.

[Urpriest]

The reason I choose to give my character the winged template was I did not want the problem with having the fiendish wings graft or the flaws associated with get the dragon wings graft.

The Winged Template introduces more flaws though. While flying through spells or normal magic items is essentially risk-free.

[Jack_Simth]

If I remember right Feathered Wings is cheaper.
They are a lot cheaper at only 10k, yes, however they've got specific mechanical drawbacks due to being a Fiendish Graft. -6 Circumstance to all Charisma-based checks when dealing with Nonevil people.

However, it can actually be gotten for basically nothing (if you're living at the time, anyway): Greater Planar Bind / Greater Planar Ally a Sibriex (Fiendish Codex I) and have it use it's Instant Graft supernatural ability to give you a Fiendish Graft of your choice (and this EXPLICITLY costs it no GP or XP). It can do this 3/day, and there's no particular reason you couldn't get three such grafts with a single casting - although as the OP will very likely be ineligible for grafting by the time the OP can cast such directly, the OP will likely need to hire the spell... but it's pretty cheap for what you get if you don't mind going whole-hog Evil.
The standard price is:
Spell level * Caster Level * 10 gp = 8*15*10=1,200 gp
XP component: 500 * 5gp = 2,500 gp
Payment to the creature: Nonhazardous minute/level task, which may or may not be "strongly aligned with the creature's ethos", so 50 gp/hd or less = 750 gp or less to the Sibriex.
Total cost: 4,450 gp (or less).

What you might get for that less than 5k:
Membranous Wings (Fly at twice your normal land speed, Average manueverability, Cold/Fire resistance 10): 50,000 gp market
Charming Eye (see perfectly in any kind of darkness, even magical darkness, with no listed range limit; a 30 foot DC 14 Charm gaze): 120,000 gp market
Fearsome Eye (See Invisibility, 30 foot Paralysis gaze Will DC 14): 120,000 gp market.

You'll have to look for a caster, though, as if costs bring the spell above 3,000 gp it's "not generally available".

As far as I can tell, there's no real restriction on how many Fiendish Grafts you can get... but as nearly as I can tell, while the grafting entry doesn't restrict grafts to living subjects, the actual grafting feat does, and the Sibriex's Instant Graft ability references the feat for the base mechanics.
For the most part, it's also unclear if Fiendish Grafts are replacements, or additions. I count 17 of them (although Feathered Wings and Membranous Wings don't exactly stack). If they're additions, then you could get all 17 for 26,700 gp or less over the course of six days this way. If the items that say "arms", "legs", or "eyes" are replacements (so you can't have more than two of each such), you can only have one pair of wings, and you can only have one tail, then there's effectively only 12 of them, for a mere 17,800 gp or less over the course of four days.

Mind you: Circumstance stacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#circumstanceModifier), so if you've got 12 Grafts you're (arguably) at -72 to Charisma based checks with nonevil NPCs. Good luck working with anyone who's not evil ever again.

That said, as a Cleric you'll be able to cast Air Walk, so it's less necessary.

Anyway, Clerics are generally better warrior-types than Fighters, though the d6 hit dice will hurt a little.
The d6 instead of the d8 works out to an average loss of 1 HP/level for the ten levels to which it applies. That's always less than one hit in melee at every level for which it applies. It's the lost caster levels that really hurt as a Cleric (but Clerics are good enough that it won't matter at most tables, and the OP wants to melee). At capstone, all hit dice change to d12's, which is 2 hp/level (on average) more than a pure Cleric would get... and if the build assumes reaching the capstone, Charisma is very likely to be higher than Con anyway (although starting at 1st, that's a bit more of a 'now vs. later' trade-off, and might be a bit too steep of a price).

[BilltheCynic]

In addition to the necropolitan, Libris Mortis does give savage progression for the ghoul, mohrg, mummy, wight, and vampire spawn, so you could play any of those from level 1, and mohrgs go all the way from level 1 to level 20. However, most of them seem pretty lackluster because they must also compensate for the undead creature's LA, which means you're going to have several levels where you don't advance in HD. For example, mohrgs only get 14d12 HD at level 20 with no con modifier.

Another option is to be a Corpse Creature or a Bone Creature from the Book of Vile Darkness. They turn you into a zombie or skeleton respectively, but they let you keep your intelligence score. They also provide some nifty benefits, such as giving you a slam attack for corpse creatures or making you immune to cold for bone creatures. If you want your character to fly, both of them let the base creature keep a fly speed if it had one (however, corpse creatures reduce your maneuverability to clumsy, and bone creatures turn natural flight into magical flight) so you could play a raptoran undead and get flight that way. As an added bonus, both can be created by summon undead, so you could get the Corpsecrafter feat chain applied to them. The downside is that there is no listed LA for them so it is up to the GM to decide, and any sane GM is going to add at least +2 extra LA for the corpsecrafter benefits (if you get the chain).

Yet another option from Savage Species is the Awaken Undead spell. Have it cast on a mindless undead to turn it intelligent, so you could play a zombie or skeleton that way. Once again has the downside of no listed LA, so it would be up to the GM to decide.

[M Placeholder]

Does your DM know that unlife is your aim? Are there any Paladins, Clerics or characters that would object to you becoming undead?



Anyway, Clerics are generally better warrior-types than Fighters, though the d6 hit dice will hurt a little.

If you choose the War and Death domains, then a Cleric is a great choice. Also, if you are a Cleric, you can use the Bolster Undead class feature on yourself till you go blind:smalltongue:

[Urpriest]

Does your DM know that unlife is your aim? Are there any Paladins, Clerics or characters that would object to you becoming undead?



If you choose the War and Death domains, then a Cleric is a great choice. Also, if you are a Cleric, you can use the Bolster Undead class feature on yourself till you go blind:smalltongue:

Death isn't such a great choice, most of the spells are already on the Cleric list. Besides, this guy needs Sand or Thirst for Walker in the Waste.

[ShurikVch]

How you about psionics?
Because Grim Psion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628b) gets undeath from the very 1st level

Also there are some undead templates in magazines, which have no listed LA, thus, by the RAW, LA +0. It's, probably, an oversight, so just ask your DM about it. Templates are: Ghoulish Creature (Dragon Compendium), Ghastly Creature (same), and Cauldron Spawn (Dr#340)


Would I better off getting the dragon wing graft instead of taking the winged creature template? According to Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18140147&postcount=592), grafts are only for living creatures. So, after the (un)death, they, probably, will fall off or something

[Urpriest]

According to Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18140147&postcount=592), grafts are only for living creatures. So, after the (un)death, they, probably, will fall off or something

Actually, the rules only specify that you can't apply grafts to nonliving creatures, there are no rules for what happens if you stop living later. There also seems to be an exception for applying grafts to yourself, though that's more ambiguous.

[SamhainGhost]

Actually, the rules only specify that you can't apply grafts to nonliving creatures, there are no rules for what happens if you stop living later. There also seems to be an exception for applying grafts to yourself, though that's more ambiguous.I would see the grafts becoming like the rest of the undead body when it becomes undead. That would mean that a wing graft would be just bones or they could be rotting.

[Ruethgar]

Shirt of Gentle Repose and you will maintain your appearance.

[SamhainGhost]

I think I might go with the Dry Lich.

What do you think of me getting clawed gauntlets?

[Jack_Simth]

What do you think of me getting clawed gauntlets?Why do it half-way? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#demonArmor)

[atemu1234]

Faerie Mysteries Initiate is the classic way, if one that really annoys some people.

Meh, I allow it, mostly because all it does is boost hit points. It's not like it makes the characters any more deadly in the long run, unless they need more rounds to do damage.

Also, having the Con 4, Level 20 Wizard charge headfirst into melee with his 250+ hp is... delectable.