3.5 Does a Natural 20 always do damage?

[graeylin]

I know that a natural 20 always hits, regardless of AC.

However, the rules as written are unclear on if you get to roll damage on a nat 20 hit, if the AC of the target is higher than your roll.

From the SRD:
Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on the attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit.

Damage Rolls: If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the target’s AC, the attack hits and you deal damage. Roll the appropriate damage for your weapon. Damage is deducted from the target’s current hit points.

So, if the target's AC is 22, and I roll a natural 20 (with no other bonuses to hit), I hit him (per the Automatic Hit rule). But, do I damage him? I don't equal or exceed his AC, so...

[torrasque666]

Damage Rolls: If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the target’s AC, the attack hits and you deal damage. Roll the appropriate damage for your weapon. Damage is deducted from the target’s current hit points.

Bolded the relevant part. If you hit, you deal damage. Granted, that damage might be mitigated by regeneration, damage reduction, etc. but you still roll.

[graeylin]

What if I bold this part? Isn't the first phrase just as relevant and important?

Damage Rolls: If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the target’s AC, the attack hits and you deal damage. Roll the appropriate damage for your weapon. Damage is deducted from the target’s current hit points.

[torrasque666]

What if I bold this part? Isn't the first phrase just as relevant and important?

Damage Rolls: If the attack roll result equals or exceeds the target’s AC, the attack hits and you deal damage. Roll the appropriate damage for your weapon. Damage is deducted from the target’s current hit points.

If you play with a DM that doesn't give damage on a nat20, he deserves to be smacked in the head with his own DMG.

Let's instead look at the PHB, as they should have this.

To attack an opponent, roll a d20 and add your character’s attack bonus. If the result equals or exceeds the opponent’s Armor Class
(AC), the attack succeeds.
On a successful attack, roll the dice indicated for the weapon you
used to determine how much damage your attack deals.
Damage reduces hit points (hp). When all of a character’s hit
points are gone, the character falls unconscious and is dying. (See
Chapter 8: Combat for details.)
A critical hit deals more damage. If you roll a natural 20 on an
attack roll, you threaten a critical hit. Roll again to confirm it. If the
second attack roll is successful, then the critical hit is confirmed and
you deal more damage (see page 140 for more information).

When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20),
you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a
threat. The hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it’s a critical
hit, you immediately make a critical roll—another attack roll with all the
same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the critical roll also
results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit.
(The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit. It doesn’t need to
come up 20 again.) If the critical roll is a miss, then your hit is just a
regular hit.

If it hits, it succeeds. Anyone who says otherwise is being pedantic and stubborn. The goal of an attack roll is to hit. If it can't hit, it can't succeed. Its one of those "used interchangeably" deals.

[georgie_leech]

Such an interpretation would also require you to do damage on a Natural 1 if it would have been a hit otherwise.

[Jack_Simth]

Such an interpretation would also require you to do damage on a Natural 1 if it would have been a hit otherwise.
"And the frost giant misses you for 306 damage" is not something I'd want to hear from a DM....

[Red Fel]

Both natural 20s and natural 1s constitute special exceptions, where specific trumps general. A natural 1 is an automatic failure (where that rule applies), regardless of the target number. A natural 1 on an attack roll is an automatic miss, even where the target has an AC of 0.

Similarly, a natural 20 on an attack roll is a special exception. It is an automatic hit, irrespective of the target's AC. Even against a target with AC 100, a natural 20 hits.

So it hits. Then you roll damage, reduce for DR and such, and move along.

[Vhaidara]

"And the frost giant misses you for 306 damage" is not something I'd want to hear from a DM....

Can I toss this into my quotes list? It's kind of beautiful

[goto124]

The thread title made me think 'Not if you rolled Diplomancy' :smalltongue:


"And the frost giant misses you for 306 damage" is not something I'd want to hear from a DM....

The party member next to you takes the 306 damage.

[Flickerdart]

A natural 20 doesn't do damage only when DR or immunity on the target absorbs it.

[holywhippet]

"And the frost giant misses you for 306 damage" is not something I'd want to hear from a DM....

The reminds me of a quote by the wrestler the Rock:

Now, Bad Ass, you run your mouth about SummerSlam. Well, here's the situation. The Rock says this: if the Rock hits you, he'll kill you. If he misses, the wind behind the punch will give you pneumonia and you'll die anyway, so the choice is yours, jabroni!

[Andezzar]

A natural 20 doesn't do damage only when DR or immunity on the target absorbs it.There also are miss chances, though those could also be called instances where a natural 20 does not hit.

[sideswipe]

if i had a RAW DM that argued what the OP is arguing in a serious in game manner, then i would bring back as my next character the twice betrayer of shar.