5e Warlock: What to do with the 4th level ability increase

[Icewraith]

Alright so this is a Variant human Fey Tome Warlock 4. I have Agonizing Blast and Book of Shadows (Find Familiar-Hawk, useful for scouting except for the damn fog that's everywhere, Detect Magic).

Str 8
Dex 13
Con 16 (Starting 14 +1 racial +1 resilient: Con)
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 16 (starting 15 +1 racial)

First level feat: Resilient:CON. (Glad I took it, too!)

Survival/Horror genre campaign. So far lots of zombies, we're somewhere in Ravenloft apparently (I don't know much about Ravenloft aside from we're ultimately screwed because Ravenloft). The DM is pulling from 3.5 material, so no spoilers from those campaigns please. There's also a critical hit table (any effects can be recovered with a week of rest and a cleric, so it's not as bad as it could be) and there will probably be madness of some sort.

These are the zombie disease spreading kind of zombies apparently, so I'm super, super glad I took resilient:CON with my Human feat. Tactics so far: cower in the corners and behind the people with good AC and Hex+Eldritch blast for some impressive damage.

Option One: CHA +2. Increase my to-hit and saving throw DC and damage output. Not that I've needed to force a saving throw so far, and enemy ACs have been fairly low. But extra damage and to-hit, every round, will add up.

Option Two: Resilient: Dex. My HP isn't so hot and my AC is abysmal (Studded Leather, +1 dex mod = 13! Woooooo!) and a lot of damage saves involve Dex. This is an extra point of AC, initiative, and +3 to my Dex save. Some zombies have exploded when killed. Avoiding contagion-spreading zombie guts is kinda nice, especially since I haven't always been able to keep zombies from meleeing me. Neither of the other two party members are good at dex saves, so the likelihood of us being targeted with them is pretty high, I think.

Option Three: Spell Sniper. Most of my attacks so far have been against targets with half cover from a friendly party member (it sounds like I won't be risking shooting my party members in the back if I fumble, but still...). That's effectively +2 to hit on the majority of attacks I'll be making using Eldritch blast, along with the increased range and free cantrip.

Option 4: Lucky. We've already had a couple bad D20 rolls obfuscate some apparently major plot points.

Option 5: Crossbow Sniper. I won't use any other benefit, but no disadvantage on ranged attacks while in melee is nice. Really nice. The party is going to fluctuate in size between three and six people, and zombies managing to get into melee with me has been a bit of a problem (magnified by me forgetting to grab Shocking Grasp, now rectified since we hit level 4 and I gained a cantrip).

Option 6: War Caster. Nice but probably not, I already have Resilient:Con and I probably won't get to zap someone with Shocking Grasp using my reaction and run away (and still be able to use my standard) without also taking Polearm Master, which isn't happening.

Option 7: Alert. Big bonus to initiative and passive perception/investigation, so we're less likely to miss clues, get hit by traps, and be surprised.

Option 8: Medium Armor Proficiency. Note I can also grab +1 dex from this and wear a shield and chain shirt to get up to 17 AC (13+2+2), 18 AC if I can get my hands on a breastplate (I trained Stealth). I don't have the Wisdom to dip Cleric (need 13+, have 12) and that has its own long term consequences and short term benefits. We are allowed to adjust characters based on how the first session went, so I could dump INT too and get Wis up to 13 and not be sure what to do with the other point, since it would cost two more points to get to 14.

I'm mainly considering options 1-3, but 4-8 and rebuild for cleric dip have crossed my mind. Right now I'm the party's major source of damage, so that means I'm likely to be targeted more in the future (especially once we run into more intelligent opposition). I ended up with 2 hp at one point last time (and having really high ACs is working out pretty well for the other guys right now), so I'm not sure whether or not to be a better glass cannon or be a less glassy cannon.

I've stalemated myself thinking about this and can't sleep (maybe now I can?). Anyone else have an angle I might not have covered?

[ghost_warlock]

I would've gone with the owl familiar for Flyby Attack. Also more useful at night - in Ravenloft I'd expect you do a lot of night time adventuring (or at least muck about in the dark a lot).

Re: Resilient Dex. Can you take the Resilient feat more than once? I was under the impression that you can't take the same feat more than once.

The +2 Charisma would serve you well as you gain levels and get more spells with saves. Or just to improve you attack and damage rolls with what you already have. Never a bad investment.

So far as multiclassing, have you considered bard? Would net you a few more spell slots, more variety in your spell list (including some healing), and some other interesting tidbits. If you went three levels in you can get the same medium armor + shield proficiency as a cleric in addition to some other good stuff. Of course, you'd be sacrificing your access to more powerful invocations and warlock spells. (IMO, it's worth it).

[kaoskonfety]

I've seen nothing indicating you CAN'T take the resilient feat once per stat you are not proficient in and gain full benefit. So it should work? - pending your DM as in all things, but it shouldn't be a hard sell.

For a Ravenloft game I'd encourage organic advancement if possible: if you've been melee threatened/attacked a fair bit go with the Medium armour. If Dex saves have been coming up grab that. If both, Lucky. The +1 dex and medium armour boost to your AC looks excellent though - as a player I'd need a good reason not to take that (+1 to the dex save, +3-4ish to AC?, pretty boss).

The +2 charisma would be the default optimization choice if you have not been getting hit/attacked much and/or operate on the "the best defence is having no living foes" strategy, it also lines up with the Fey pact nicely and if you are the parties talker, social skill boosts will help, especially when you run into villagers who want to burn the witch.... - I'd take this over spell sniper as it gives a +1 to hit, getting you half of the reported bonus from spell sniper and the small raft of more charisma bonus from your class features otherwise (a bit of damage, higher save DC's blah blah blah).

couple you have not mentioned:
Toughness for 2 hp per level is ok, as would be +2 con for +1 hp and a +1 con save. Not saying these are perfect, but I'd argue them above a couple of the other listed choices (crossbow sniper for instance)

[TrexPushups]

In spring leadership would take advantage of your good cha and give the entire party 7 temp hp every short rest.

If you already have a temp hp source this is not as effective.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

I like option 8 a lot, personally. Having 16AC just with breastplate, and you can walk around with a shield and a free hand all the time. Plus it rounds out your dex score.

1 and 2 are also solid choices.

[Strill]

Option Two: Resilient: Dex. My HP isn't so hot and my AC is abysmal (Studded Leather, +1 dex mod = 13! Woooooo!) and a lot of damage saves involve Dex. This is an extra point of AC, initiative, and +3 to my Dex save. Some zombies have exploded when killed. Avoiding contagion-spreading zombie guts is kinda nice, especially since I haven't always been able to keep zombies from meleeing me. Neither of the other two party members are good at dex saves, so the likelihood of us being targeted with them is pretty high, I think.Once you learn the Repelling Blast Invocation, you should be able to deal with melee zombies.


Option Three: Spell Sniper. Most of my attacks so far have been against targets with half cover from a friendly party member (it sounds like I won't be risking shooting my party members in the back if I fumble, but still...). That's effectively +2 to hit on the majority of attacks I'll be making using Eldritch blast, along with the increased range and free cantrip. You only get cantrips that allow an attack roll, which you don't need, because you have Eldritch Blast already. The +2 Hit against enemies in cover isn't nearly as good as what you'd get from +2 CHA. Not worth it in my opinion.


Option 4: Lucky. We've already had a couple bad D20 rolls obfuscate some apparently major plot points.It's definitely a decent feat.


Option 5: Crossbow Sniper. I won't use any other benefit, but no disadvantage on ranged attacks while in melee is nice. Really nice. The party is going to fluctuate in size between three and six people, and zombies managing to get into melee with me has been a bit of a problem (magnified by me forgetting to grab Shocking Grasp, now rectified since we hit level 4 and I gained a cantrip).Just use Shocking Grasp. It's not worth a cantrip.


Option 6: War Caster. Nice but probably not, I already have Resilient:Con and I probably won't get to zap someone with Shocking Grasp using my reaction and run away (and still be able to use my standard) without also taking Polearm Master, which isn't happening.Yeah, it's not that great.


Option 7: Alert. Big bonus to initiative and passive perception/investigation, so we're less likely to miss clues, get hit by traps, and be surprised.But it gives an ability score you don't really need.


Option 8: Medium Armor Proficiency. Note I can also grab +1 dex from this and wear a shield and chain shirt to get up to 17 AC (13+2+2), 18 AC if I can get my hands on a breastplate (I trained Stealth). I don't have the Wisdom to dip Cleric (need 13+, have 12) and that has its own long term consequences and short term benefits. We are allowed to adjust characters based on how the first session went, so I could dump INT too and get Wis up to 13 and not be sure what to do with the other point, since it would cost two more points to get to 14.Definitely better than Resilient:Dex in my opinion.


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If you do decide to take a level of Cleric, you should consider Defensive Duelist. The key aspect that makes it so good is that you can use it AFTER the roll has been made. In other words, every time you use it, it's guaranteed to negate the attack.

[Yorrin]

I'll go ahead and get behind the Medium Armor choice. In Ravenloft survivability is key, so a significant bump to AC is 100% worth it. If not, just stick with +Cha.

[Icewraith]

I don't know how big a deal HP regen is in 5e or ravenloft (but vampires and werewolves usually had some in 3e), but spell sniper would allow me to pick up the Chill Touch cantrip, locking out healing on a nasty target for a round (not sure on the particulars, AFB) IIRC. That might only be on undead.... which still probably will come up in Ravenloft. I can also rejigger things so I pick up Eldritch Blast with Spell Sniper.

The thing about resilient Dex: is that if I wait to pick it up until I start running into things I need it for, the odds of not making it out of the situation I need it for are pretty high. Dex saves are for things like fireballs, breath weapons, not falling off of tricky footing, etc. and I have exactly two spell slots for the foreseeable future. If I need to use one to levitate or fly, I probably need to drop my Hex spell to do it, and that's a lot of lost damage. There's a mountain or some cliff thing in the future.

Also note that Medium Armor Proficiency and Resilient:Dex take each other out of future consideration if either one is picked, since both increase my currently odd dex score by 1. Medium Armor Proficiency is looking a lot better than I thought it did at first glance, maybe this is left over from 3.5 but burning a feat slot on armor proficiency just seems wrong. I might just have to get over that.

If we happen to run across a Rod of the Pact Keeper and I want to keep wearing a shield I'm going to have to take war caster, though. Not a huge consideration, more of a "note to self".

Now leaning more towards Medium Armor Proficiency (gah!) with a theoretical CHA bump at 8th if I make it that far. If I do find a rod taking War Caster instead of a CHA bump isn't nearly as bad since I've already got +1 to hit/save DCs from the rod.

[Strill]

but spell sniper would allow me to pick up the Chill Touch cantrip, locking out healing on a nasty target for a round

Chill Touch doesn't do what it's supposed to at all. I haven't found any undead in the monster manual that regenerate, and many undead resist necrotic damage, making it the worst damage type for fighting them. It needs to be reworked.

[kaoskonfety]

before spell sniper I'd be looking at magic adept for a 1st level spell and 2 cantrips from especially bard or sorcerer - not saying its better or worse - but take a look if you are taking spell sniper for the cantrip utility.

Ravenloft is a grim-dark setting - you can probably do better then both armor and dex saves and a dex of 15 - but don't discount them.

[Icewraith]

before spell sniper I'd be looking at magic adept for a 1st level spell and 2 cantrips from especially bard or sorcerer - not saying its better or worse - but take a look if you are taking spell sniper for the cantrip utility.

Ravenloft is a grim-dark setting - you can probably do better then both armor and dex saves and a dex of 15 - but don't discount them.

Tomelock. I already get to poach three cantrips from any Class' list. My guy has guidance, mage hand, eldritch blast, minor illusion, something I can't currently remember, and now Shocking Grasp. I was just pointing out the extra Cantrip from Spell Sniper STILL wouldn't go to waste because of Chill Touch's potentially useful anti-healing and undead abilities. Spell Sniper is mainly for the ability to ignore cover. Any time I needed to zap a zombie that my allies were fending off, they were also granting it +2 AC from half cover.

Edit: Not sure, but didn't it lock out healing for a round on anything and have some kind of anti-undead utility, like they got disadvantage to attack you or something? Still AFB.

[kaoskonfety]

Chill touch is good - ranged attack 120', d8 damage - prevent healing till the start of YOUR next turn - *and* undead are at disadvantage on attack rolls, again till your next turn.

Very nice, hadn't noticed it was so good. "How good" will vary but a definite contender for a top 10 list.

[Strill]

Chill touch is good - ranged attack 120', d8 damage - prevent healing till the start of YOUR next turn - *and* undead are at disadvantage on attack rolls, again till your next turn.

Very nice, hadn't noticed it was so good. "How good" will vary but a definite contender for a top 10 list.

Except when you use it against an undead and realize that they're immune to necrotic damage, so your turn was wasted. Great.

[kaoskonfety]

Except when you use it against an undead and realize that they're immune to necrotic damage, so your turn was wasted. Great.

At a quick glance vampires and wights are resistant to necrotic, not immune and stopping a vampire regeneration will often be worth half (or all) of your damage on its own.

On a closer look it appears the incorporeal undead are generally immune to necrotic, the big bad undead resistant, and the weak ones take full damage - but warlock - so Eldritch blast those resistant/immune for the most part, and it appears it would still impose disadvantage on their attacks and prevent them healing, so its not a zero value option, doubly so if some of your allies can't spare say the strength damage from the Shadow.

edit - but them Ravenloft - so gods only know what curveball will get applied to various monsters and spells interacting with them.

[Galen]

Fun fact: simple undead, such as Zombies and Skeletons, are not immune to necrotic damage. More advances undead, such as Wights, are resistant, but not immune.

[Solzak]

Delay your ASI for one level and Multiclass into Cleric. Gets you medium armour + shield prof. Then resume and maybe get that dex save?

[Galen]

Delay your ASI for one level and Multiclass into Cleric. Gets you medium armour + shield prof. Then resume and maybe get that dex save?

He can't. Wisdom 12.