I have no clue what to play

[lytokk]

So this weekend I'm getting into an ongoing game and I have no clue what I should play. The game is set in Eberron, with most of the adventures taking place in Sharn. Level 4, and currently there is a ranger, a theif (probably rogue), monk, barbarian, bard, and a paladin (who is expressly not being played like a paladin). I know that there is no real caster support in the party, and I have no clue what to play. I really want to play a warforged, but as to class I have no clue. Stats are rolled, and I have 16, 12, 14, 15, 12, 14. I was thinking artificer, but I still have problems wrapping my head around that class. I believe the ranger went twf, so there is little ranged support, which made me think of warlock.
The only guiding influence was the DM telling me to keep it simple. Last time I played with him, I "broke" the game with a halfling paladin, so I need to keep it in mid range of optimization. Any suggestions or thoughts?
*edit* also the group isn;t using a battlemat as a way of speeding up combat, which also removes attacks of opportunity.

[HammeredWharf]

An archivist, maybe? It's very versatile, can buff the noncasters and fits well enough with your race.

[lytokk]

I should have said it in the original post, but I was thinking something more like a blaster. The problem with any divine caster is I don't think the "repair" line of spells is on any of the divine lists, save maybe the artifice domain, so being a warforged "cleric" type would restrict me to healing others at the expense of myself. Also, anything with a casting stat off of either wisdom or charisma is going to be hurting with a max of 14 in either of those casting stats I know archivist casts cleric spells off of int, but it feels a little weak.

[BowStreetRunner]

... being a warforged "cleric" type would restrict me to healing others at the expense of myself...
Keep in mind that as living constructs warforged do benefit from healing spells, although they only get half the effect, so this still is not ideal.

[Xerlith]

Do try Artificer. The class is relatively simple - the only things you need to know is that you can create items 2 levels before a wizard/cleric could and that your Infusions are basically spells that need to be cast on items to work.
The most problems you'll have is time/resource (gold mostly) management when crafting wands for blasting, but it's really worth it.

A Warforged Artificer could relatively easily get by with using Infusions on themselves (helping with the healing a bit) and using Bane infusion on a crossbow (action point to infuse as standard) to deal damage in combat on low levels.

[HammeredWharf]

Do you want to be a blaster or do you just think you need Repair X spells? Because repair spells aren't something you should ever prepare anyway. Later on you can give your bard a repairing wand. Having 14 wis isn't a problem as an archivist. It's just one spell per day.

If you want a blaster, wizard is your best option. However, blaster wizards only take off later on IMO, when they get a decent amount of metamagic reducers and access to the Orb of X spells.

[Karl Aegis]

Repair and Cure spells are awful. Cast Lesser Vigor if you need health, preferably persisted or from a wand. Blasting is also something you should delegate to wands. No reason to waste spell slots when you can have an Arcane Thesis Metamagiced wand for the job.

[HammeredWharf]

No reason to waste spell slots when you can have an Arcane Thesis Metamagiced wand for the job.

Metamagic cost reducers apply to the spells their owner casts. Buying a wand of Twinned Empowered Maximised Split Energy Admixtured Scorching Ray for 4500 gp would be very silly.

[lytokk]

I would rather be a blaster than a healer. Remembering back a while, I found this post which got me thinking. Its a full 20 build, which would be fun to use, but I've never played an artificer, so until I get to the point when I can reliably use wands, I'm going to need to figure out how to be useful.


My ears are burning! :P

Here's my version from 2006:

I'm most familiar with Megaman X1, so he'll be a little slanted that way. :P


http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/457/0757ul.jpg

Megaman X - Lawful Neutral Warforged

1) Artificer - Mithril Body, Scribe Scroll(b)
2) Artificer - Brew Potion(b)
3) Artificer - Craft Wondrous Item(b), Empower Spell
4) Artificer - Extend Spell(b), Dex +1
5) Artificer - Craft Magical Arms and Armour(b)
6) Artificer - Extraordinary Artisan
7) Artificer - Craft Wand(b)
8) Artificer - Twin Spell(b), Dex +1
9) Artificer - Craft Rod(b), Exceptional Artisan
10) Artificer -
11) Artificer -
12) Artificer - Persistant Spell, Legendary Artisan(b), Craft Staff(b), Dex +1
13) Artificer -
14) Artificer - Forge Ring(b)
15) Artificer - Magical Artisan(Extraordinary Artisan)
16) Artificer - Maximize Spell(b), Dex +1
17) Artificer -
18) Artificer - Magical Artisan(Legendary Artisan)
19) Artificer -
20) Artificer - Improved Homunculus(Evasion, 2x Flyer, 2x Sneak Attack, Weapon Ability(shocking)), Dex +1


Improved Homunculus, eh? I wonder what that could mean.....



http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/7509/0729mb.jpg


R.U.S.H(Really Uber Support Homunculus)

Small Construct - Iron Defender
Hit Dice: 18d10+10 (109 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 40 ft.(perfect)
Armour Class: 31 (+1 size, +4 Dex, +16 Natural), touch 15, flat-footed 27
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+8
Attack: Bite +17 melee (1d8+3) + 1d6 electric + 2d6 sneak attack
Full Attack: Bite +17 melee (1d8+3) + 1d6 electric + 2d6 sneak attack
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, Evasion, Sneak Attack(2d6)
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 18, Con -, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 7
Feats: Weapon Focus (bite)(b), Weapon Finesse, Improved Natural Attack, Flyby Attack, Combat Reflexes, Great Flyby, Improved Initiative

Books used: PHB, ECS, Magic of Eberron, Savage Species, PGtF, Complete Arcane


Ok, think I got all the feats right. If someone double-checked, that'd be cool though. :P

Ok, In order for this to work, X needs to create the wand sheath item to put the wand in his forearm, however, he needs to hold 2 wands in there, not 1, so you'll have to make 2 wand sheathes and combine them(rules for combining effects are in the DMG).

Use these wands: Wand of Magic Missile(CL 9) and Wand of Orb of Force(CL 10).

You can use higher if you want, to overcome CL checks or the like, however, both spells max damage out at those levels.

Now, with these embedded, let's get to attacks.

Low Level

Normal Shot - Magic Missile - 1 charge

Mid Level

Normal Shot - Twinned Magic Missile - 5 charges
Low Charge - Orb of Force - 1 charge
High Charge - Empowered Orb of Force - 3 charges

High Level

Normal Shot - Twinned Maximized Empowered Magic Missile(70 damage) - 10 charges
Low Charge - Empowered Orb of Force - 3 charges
High Charge - Maximized Empowered Orb of Force(90 damage) - 6 charges

Buster Upgrade - Twinned Maximized Empowered Orb of Force - 10 charges(180 damage though)

Secondly, you'll probably be burning through wands fairly fast, however, with the combination of feats, the wands break down like this when all the feats are accounted for:

Assuming min CL for max effect:

Wand of Magic Missile(CL 9): 3375gps and 135xp(normal creation cost)
With feats: 1898gps and 76xp

Wand of Orb of Force(CL 10): 15000gps and 600xp(normal creation cost)
With feats: 8438gps and 338xp

These can be further reduced by specific restrictions(race, class, etc...) and if that isn't enough, you can use the metamagic infusion and get an effect for free, so that'd save you on the charges. :)

Yah, I know there are probably better spells to use, however, I think these spells best represent X. :P

Upgrades:

Helm - Helmet of True Seeing
Body - Enchant armour with "of fortification"
Arm - See above
Boots - Boots of Air Walk?

I went through a ton of different options with X, but it came down to the cost of wands in the end, and X's ability to fire off his blaster fairly indiscriminately. That and Artificers rock. My first time working with them and I feel fairly confident in saying I'd be shocked if these guys couldn't do everything. I added Rush because Improved Homunculus took him from 'meh' to 'ZOUNDS!'.

Hope that helps. :D

*edit* I forgot about the wand sheath, no need for UMD when the wand is in one of those, from what I have read about them.

[Darrin]

I would rather be a blaster than a healer.

Do both: Warlock 2/Cleric 3/Eldritch Disciple 10. Once you get Healing Blast, you can blast yourself for healing. Or if you really need the repair spells, take the Warforged domain (although this has alignment issues with Eldritch Disciple/Healing Blast).

[Shining Wrath]

The thing about Warforged is that you take a hit to Wisdom, to Charisma, and to all arcane casting because you're in armor. There are ways around this (Spellforged, non-armored WF) but they are non-standard Warforged and so you aren't really playing a traditional WF, plus you burn a feat.

If you want to play a Warforged most, take the Mithral Body feat and build a Warblade into a Bloodstorm Blade.

If you want to play an arcane caster most, but don't want to be OP, go Sorcerer.

[lytokk]

The thing about Warforged is that you take a hit to Wisdom, to Charisma, and to all arcane casting because you're in armor. There are ways around this (Spellforged, non-armored WF) but they are non-standard Warforged and so you aren't really playing a traditional WF, plus you burn a feat.

If you want to play a Warforged most, take the Mithral Body feat and build a Warblade into a Bloodstorm Blade.

If you want to play an arcane caster most, but don't want to be OP, go Sorcerer.

There is always the battle sorceror variant, who can cast in light armor, but losing some spells known.

[Troacctid]

Psions can cast in armor just fine. Heck, you can even cast in heavy armor. Take Adamant Body. Why not? And you're Int-based, so no racial penalty.

Beguilers can cast in light armor too, and are also Int-based, but they are kind of the opposite of blasters.

[Vhaidara]

If you want to play a blaster as a warforged, I recommend either Warlock or Dragonfire Adept.

Warlock gives you a robot with lasers who can eventually fly and set things on fire with lasers. Hellfire Warlock isn't a bad option, and actually has no alignment or RP requirements

DFA meanwhile turns you into a flamethrower. Refluff the breath weapon as coming out of your arm and you become a walking war crime. Combine it with the Maug Roller Graft from Fiend Folio and Adamantine Body and you are a flamethrower tank.

[lytokk]

I'm waffling between artificer and warlock, though I hadn't considered psion. My problem with artificer is until about level 7, there's not going to be a lot I can do with wands, in terms of damage dealing. But its got a lot higher power than the warlock. The warlock will come out of the gates pretty well. And then there's psion, who's blasting potential is a lot higher than anything else.

[Troacctid]

And then there's psion, who's blasting potential is a lot higher than anything else.

I don't know if it's a lot higher--a typical Psion will still only be doing 1d6/level damage, albeit to multiple targets. Remember, the power points you can spend on a single power are capped by your manifester level, so you can't just dump all your PP into a single energy ray to deal 20d6 damage in one shot (which is a common error people tend to make with psionics).

But your basic low-op Psion can blast about as well as your basic low-op Sorcerer, numbers-wise, except that they gain access to higher-level powers a level early, they run off of a superior casting stat and a more flexible resource system, they can switch the energy damage of their blasting spells on the fly, and all their spells are automatically stilled and silent with no material components.

[Doctor Awkward]

If you want a blaster, wizard is your best option.


Ehhh, I disagree

Artificers can make phenomenal archers capable of pumping out great damage round after round.

If you are talking blasting as in with damage-dealing spells, nobody does that better than sorcerer, mostly thanks to Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion.

Attaching a Twinspelled Maximized Force Orb to True Strike makes for 120 nearly unavoidable damage.

[Shining Wrath]

There is always the battle sorceror variant, who can cast in light armor, but losing some spells known.

Widely regarded as a bad trade, but yes.

[Shining Wrath]

If you want to play a blaster as a warforged, I recommend either Warlock or Dragonfire Adept.

Warlock gives you a robot with lasers who can eventually fly and set things on fire with lasers. Hellfire Warlock isn't a bad option, and actually has no alignment or RP requirements

DFA meanwhile turns you into a flamethrower. Refluff the breath weapon as coming out of your arm and you become a walking war crime. Combine it with the Maug Roller Graft from Fiend Folio and Adamantine Body and you are a flamethrower tank.

I am profoundly amused by the idea of a Warforged who wants to be a dragon instead. And DFA uses Constitution for save DC so that's a plus.

[Vhaidara]

I am profoundly amused by the idea of a Warforged who wants to be a dragon instead. And DFA uses Constitution for save DC so that's a plus.

I've made it. Half-Red Dragon Warforged DFA with Maug Rollers (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=879001). A flying flamethrower tank. Also a library.

And yes, Half-Dragon Warforged is legal. Half-Dragon can be applied to any living creature. Warforged are living constructs.

Dragon biology, will it ever cease to amaze?

[holywhippet]

I should have said it in the original post, but I was thinking something more like a blaster. The problem with any divine caster is I don't think the "repair" line of spells is on any of the divine lists, save maybe the artifice domain, so being a warforged "cleric" type would restrict me to healing others at the expense of myself. Also, anything with a casting stat off of either wisdom or charisma is going to be hurting with a max of 14 in either of those casting stats I know archivist casts cleric spells off of int, but it feels a little weak.

Someone suggested archivist before and it would help with this problem. That class can learn cleric spells as they level up and from scrolls. Domain spells are also cleric spells so you can get any repair spells that appear in a domain somewhere. The same applies to blaster type magic. A lot of attack spells appear in a domain somewhere.

[BowStreetRunner]

Domain spells are also cleric spells so you can get any repair spells that appear in a domain somewhere.
The Warforged Domain is found in Faiths of Eberron on page 150 and includes a veritable cornucopia of spells that any warforged cleric or archivist would love!

[danzibr]

I'm surprised nobody asked how you broke the game with a Halfling Paladin.

With a bar set that high, you should be very careful about what advice you get here, friend :)

[Doctor Awkward]

I'm surprised nobody asked how you broke the game with a Halfling Paladin.

With a bar set that high, you should be very careful about what advice you get here, friend :)

I thought it was obvious: Paladin/Halfling Outrider supermount build.
Easy to catch an unwary DM with that one.

...No accusations or anything, I'm just saying it's one of those things seems really cool and flavorful, and 'oh how bad could it be'?

[lytokk]

Halfling Paladin/Cavalier. When the DM suggested I play a Halfling paladin, and I was reluctant because I despise the small races, he said I could come from a family of clawfoot breeders and trainers, and ended up with one of the first magebred clawfoots. Before Chopperface counted as my special mount, he was just my regular mount. I "broke" the game in that he had to start designing encounters around me. He'd throw a group of enemies at the party expecting me to take on the biggest thing (iron golem) and everyone else in the party would take on the lesser things (mind flayer and I think a mummy).

Chooperface at my level 8 I think took out a 7 headed hydra just through shear damage.

[Segev]

Psion, particularly Shaper (which, I believe, gets Psionic Repair as a thing), could be useful.

For blasting, you have Crystal Shard as well as whatever psychokinetic powers you like from the main list, and the Astral Construct is always very versatile and potent.

There's a power for just about every role of "caster support" your party is likely to need, and it's a fairly straightforward class. Take Vigor and you'll always be swimming in hit points, too.

[Spore]

Am I the only one concerned with the actual number of players? It's SEVEN guys, SEVEN! I can't even stand 5 players half of the time...

[lytokk]

Am I the only one concerned with the actual number of players? It's SEVEN guys, SEVEN! I can't even stand 5 players half of the time...

Yeah, it had me pretty concerned too. Which is kinda why I think I'm going with artificer. Blasting in battle will be pretty simple, and I can always use downtime to make stuff. Mostly since with 7 people its going to be pretty hard to keep WBL even. And so long as I have the crafting rules down backwards and forwards I'm basically just a buffer.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Absolutely go Psion if you want to be a blaster! Pick the Shaper discipline if you go with a Warforged. Here's a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0), you'll want to get a psicrystal and keep share pain active on it as early as possible, and share powers like vigor and psionic repair damage with it. Don't forget its hardness reduces every instance of damage it takes from share pain by that much. Note that Complete Psionic nerfed several key powers, such as Astral Construct (you can only have one out at a time) and Energy Stun (its DC scales less with augmentation). Despite the nerfs, the Personal Construct ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) is still well worth taking. Be sure to get Expanded Knowledge for Energy Missile, to destroy opponents' weapons, shields, armor, spell component pouch, divine focus, etc. at the start of a fight and significantly reduce their ability to harm the party. The various energy powers are superb at dealing damage, just remember that you can never spend more powerpoints on a single power than your manifester level.