Some help about Meldshaping

[bootzin]

Hi, guys!

So, I wanted to make a meldshaper, but I never really read a lot about these guys.. The idea of having a guy whose main stat is CON seemed really nice to me, and I always liked the ideas of soulmelds and all, but I don't know much of the rules for it..

But anyway, could you give me some advices on classes that make good meldshapers, regarding chakra stuff and all, and some nice roles that they fit into?

EDIT----

Also, I know it is a different build, but do Binders goes in well with meldshapers?

[Red Fel]

Hi, guys!

So, I wanted to make a meldshaper, but I never really read a lot about these guys.. The idea of having a guy whose main stat is CON seemed really nice to me, and I always liked the ideas of soulmelds and all, but I don't know much of the rules for it..

But anyway, could you give me some advices on classes that make good meldshapers, regarding chakra stuff and all, and some nice roles that they fit into?

You mean, other than Incarnate, Totemist, and my favorite (see my sig), Ironsoul Forgemaster? I mean, if you want to go straight meldshaper, you can, it's cool, we won't blame you.

Well, Barbarian is an easy one. Fact is, the best mix for a meldshaper dip is a class that doesn't rely as heavily on gear, since a soulmeld might block a slot; Barbarians can run around in kilts and pummel things with their fists, and still be pretty vicious. A Totemist's additional natural weapons, or an Incarnate's versatile tricks, work well with the Barbarian's raw power, and it helps that both meldshapers and Barbarians make good use of Con.

You could also use a skillmonkey type class, such as Factotum. Incarnate allows you to change what you're good at from day to day; with Factotum, that basically becomes everything.

Despite the presence of melds that augment spellcasting and manifesting, I'd generally discourage losing caster level for a meldshaper dip, and a caster dip is just kind of sad. You're better off focusing on combat-oriented or skill-oriented classes.


Also, I know it is a different build, but do Binders goes in well with meldshapers?

It's complicated. A Binder dip, or a meldshaper dip, can benefit just about anybody, because both Binders and meldshapers add tremendous variety and versatility to a build. That said, putting the two together is like putting garlic on your salt; yes, it will be mindblowingly delicious, but you really need a bit more meat on your plate. At best, you will have 3/4 BAB, and while you'll enjoy a wide array of changeable abilities, you won't have a core powerful set on which you can rely with regularity. Usually, you want to use levels in meldshaping or Binder to augment an existing build in various ways; on their own, they're useful, but not overwhelmingly powerful.

[bootzin]

WOW! I didn't see the Ironsoul PrC.. It seems really nice!

I love dwarfs! I love melees and I love tanks! I guess it would really be nice to be a dwarf!

Ironsoul is a 5 level PrC, right? Do you have any suggestions for a dwarf build like this?

I'll reply better in a couple hours, I'm kinda in a hurry rn :P

[Red Fel]

WOW! I didn't see the Ironsoul PrC.. It seems really nice!

I love dwarfs! I love melees and I love tanks! I guess it would really be nice to be a dwarf!

Ironsoul is a 5 level PrC, right? Do you have any suggestions for a dwarf build like this?

I'll reply better in a couple hours, I'm kinda in a hurry rn :P

IF is a 10-level PrC, not 5-level. It also relies upon your DM giving the PCs sufficient downtime to craft magic items; without that, the class suffers badly.

The handbook contains a number of build stubs towards the bottom. Feel free to look them over and consider the possibilities.

Most importantly, whenever playing a meldshaper PC, be sure to read the rules thoroughly. Magic of Incarnum suffered from some truly terrible editing, and as a result the rules are convoluted, contradictory, and placed haphazardly throughout the book. I'd also suggest reading the various meldshaper guides floating around the web.

And yes. IF is totally an UltraDwarf PrC, and it's awesome.

[THEChanger]

Ironsoul is actually ten levels, but that's okay because it's ten levels of goodness.

For a standard Ironsoul, you'll want to grab Heavy Armor Proficiency from somewhere. The only Meldshaper base class to offer it is Soulborn, but Soulborn is useless garbage, and we don't speak of it. So, we're multiclassing. My personal favorite source of HAP for an Ironsoul is the Crusader from Tome of Battle, but Fighter, Cleric, Paladin, Knight, Marshall...all decent choices. I usually go with Incarnate4/Crusader1 before heading into Ironsoul, but Incarnate1/Crusader4 is also viable, and the numbers can be adjusted depending on how much Incarnum you want. Based on how the thread started, I'm guessing you want more Incarnum than less, so try out the first one.

Other than that...you're a heavily defensive front-line character that makes magic armor and weapons. Shield and One-Handed Weapon will get you the most out of your class features. Work with the party mage to make people the weapons they want. There are going to be a lot of places to put your Essentia, so getting more is a must. Bonus Essentia is your level six Feat. But the basic chassis leaves a lot of places to go. Want to do lockdown? Red Fel's guide has some very good suggestions about how to become tripmaster while Ironsouling. Building for pure damage? Grab a Battleaxe or a Warhammer and max out invested Essentia at level 9. You've got a lot of room to do whatever kind of melee you like.

As to Binders and Incarnum...it's difficult to pull off with official material. There was a homebrewed PrC floating around awhile back that combined them to good effect(Midnight Occultist, I think?), but with just the two classes, what you end up with is a big bag of tricks, none of which pack a big punch. You'll be able to do just about everything, but none of it well enough to compete. That said, even in an Ironsoul build, a level or two of Binder can be pretty sweet. With Improved Binding, you can grab 2nd level Vestiges with just one level of Binder. Dahlver-Nar makes you even more tanky, Malphas gives you scouting and bonus damage, Savnok teleports you around. I wouldn't invest more than one level into Binder, but those are some handy tricks.

Red Fel knows more about Ironsoul optimization than I do, I'd wager. But I do love me some Incarnum. If you're looking for another idea, a Totemist with either levels of Barbarian for Natural Attack Pouncing, or Warblade for Tiger Claw shenanigans can put out some of the more impressive damage numbers I've seen. I personally enjoy the Umbral Disciple PrC a lot, and the Sapphire Hierarchs, though those are more Clerics with a side of Incarnum than Incarnum with a side of Cleric.

[Red Fel]

TheChanger makes some great points. Crusader is an awesome choice, particularly if you want to "tank." The Crusader has an excellent array of sources of AoOs, which means you can be attacking a lot, even when it's not your turn. With the IF's daze effect, being able to hit as many times as possible is a boon; the save isn't tremendously difficult, but the more times an enemy has to roll, the more chances they have to roll low.

I'm also a huge fan of the Totemist/Barbarian/Warblade combo TheChanger mentions. A quick Barbarian dip can get you Whirling Frenzy and Pounce, letting you unload a full attack (with an extra attack) on a charge. A full attack with an arsenal of Totemist natural weapons tends to be a massive spike. When coupled with Warblade and Stormguard Warrior, you can sacrifice the damage from one full attack to turn your next full attack into the melee equivalent of a tactical nuclear strike. Tack it onto a Dragonblood race for access to Draconic soulmelds (which don't need to be bound to get you a natural weapon) and you're basically a living blender.

With respect to a shield, keep one thing in mind: Animated shields are a thing. A shield with the Animated property floats around you when used, freeing up your hand to do something else. Such as wield a two-handed weapon. Which you should totally be doing. You should absolutely use the shield, because it gives you great class bonuses, but make sure it's Animated, so you can use a proper weapon (i.e. one whose damage can be measured on the Richter scale).

[Pluto!]

If you're going into the book for the first time, stay skeptical. The rules are a little bit tricky, half the PrCs are bad (the exceptions are the dual-progressions, Ironsoul Forgemaster and Totem Rager), Soulborn is bad, and straightclassed Incarnate can struggle offensively if you aren't using Necrocarnum Circlet.

The Meldshaper builds I've been happiest with are:

Totemist 20 or Totemist 4/Barbarian 2/Totem Rager 10/[Barbarian PrC] 4: Beat things down with your claws.

Incarnate 4/Crusader 1/[Alternating Ironsould Forgemaster 2/Crusader 1]: A beefy tank with out-of-combat utility and ways to force/entice enemies into melee range.

[Totemist or Incarnate] 2 -> Full Caster or Psion with full levels in its associated dual-progression PrC: Take the Midnight Metamagic or Midnight Augmentation+Psicarnum Infusion feats and use them to enable any number of powerful combinations.

[Segev]

One of these days, I want to play an Incarnate 3/Totemist 2 into Chameleon. The extreme changeabilty of that many soulmelds, the somewhat cheesy stacking of early soulmeld capacity bonuses, and a changeling for race seem like they'd go beautifully into the "be any class" nature of the Chameleon PrC.

[Flickerdart]

One of these days, I want to play an Incarnate 3/Totemist 2 into Chameleon. The extreme changeabilty of that many soulmelds, the somewhat cheesy stacking of early soulmeld capacity bonuses, and a changeling for race seem like they'd go beautifully into the "be any class" nature of the Chameleon PrC.
Yeah but then you struggle with the choice of "what do I want to play" every morning instead of just every campaign. :smalltongue:

[Segev]

Yeah but then you struggle with the choice of "what do I want to play" every morning instead of just every campaign. :smalltongue:

*sighs dramatically* Woe is me! But I suppose that's the price I'm willing to pay.

[Zaq]

One of these days, I want to play an Incarnate 3/Totemist 2 into Chameleon. The extreme changeabilty of that many soulmelds, the somewhat cheesy stacking of early soulmeld capacity bonuses, and a changeling for race seem like they'd go beautifully into the "be any class" nature of the Chameleon PrC.

I did something very similar, only it was Binder/Incarnate rather than Incarnate/Totemist. It worked really well. And yeah, the character totally reinvented himself every day and pretended to be a different class every day. It was a lot of work making cheat sheets of what went well together (so that I wouldn't spend an hour and a half at the table picking everything), but it was a blast to play.