Making Tool Prof. Interesting

[FightStyles]

A thread in the playground mentioned growth in skill/tool/language proficiencies that I thought was pretty good, so I decided to implement the system.

For those who are unaware of this system (with a few modifications by me):
lvl 4: gain prof. in a tool or language
lvl 8: gain prof. in a tool, skill, or language
lvl 12: gain prof. in a tool or language
lvl 16: gain prof. in a tool, skill, or language
lvl 20: gain prof. in a tool, skill, or language or expertise in a skill already prof.

However, the characters that have reached level 4 all chose to become prof. in a new language, blatantly stating that tool prof. were useless.

So, what tool prof. are actually worth taking and interesting/useful to use?

[Stan]

Herbalism allows healing potions. Thieves tools are handy.

If it fits your campaign, you could allow an alchemy kit to make cool stuff, such as the minor alchemical items that Pathfinder has, DCs either the same or 5 lower, maybe give some to the herbalism kit:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances


If I'm remembering right, poisons in the DMG aren't worth it. You bump them up or make the craft cost far less if they craft it themselves.

There's not much in the rules that applies to all tools. The rules for crafting time don't take into account how good a crafter is and are so slow that it's rarely worth the bother. Who wants to take a skill that allows them to take a week off to make a standard sword and save 10 gp? If the rules were redone, characters could save serious money and/or make extra money during downtime.

[Gritmonger]

Ask the players what kinds of things they expect. Would a leatherworker expect at higher levels to be able to craft a bag of holding or a cloak of displacement if they managed to get hold of the skin of a displacer beast?

Do they want some ability to make real things? Do they actually use one-use items, or do they hoard or sell them? Do they want to have a side job they make money from when not adventuring?

Personally, I'd probably severely reduce the time for mundane versus magical item construction, as with magic items I'm presuming a bunch of specialty ingredients and procedures, where with the tool proficiency I wouldn't expect a dagger to take a whole day, nor to cost nearly as much.

If items wear out or break, you can use the proficiency for repair, though mending takes care of most of this. Mending can't improve, though, and that is another option: improving mundane equipment.

You could even have them choose to take a ten on common items for normal construction time, or roll for hurried construction.

[Mr.Moron]

I sort of expand them into miniature pseudo-knowledge skills. If player has proficiency with mason's tools, I might give them their prof bonus on int rolls to notice things related to stonework or architecture. Herbalists kit might be like a mini-nature lore or survival as it relates to plants. This is because I'm assuming folks skilled in those crafts would know things about stonework and plants respectively.

[Daishain]

Mr. Moron has it.

A tailor would likely recognize clothing and weave styles, use it to spot the stranger in a crowd by the cut of his garb. Pair it with Investigation and a scrap of cloth might become a clue.
Call the Tinker and smiths up when facing a metal mechanism. Chances are they'd have some insight into how it works and/or how to screw with it.
Give the carpenter a bonus to recognizing the weak point in any structure, the herbalist a bonus to recognizing certain plants, the poisoner one to diagnose and treat poisons someone else applied, etc. If you think about it, every single tool proficiency has some practical application beyond the immediately obvious. A combat oriented crew is still likely to be skeptical, but you can't please everyone, nor should you try.

With all of that said, I would be more inclined to hand out expertise than new skills or languages so freely. Presumably, they are practicing the skills they have as they go along, perfecting their craft. But the downtime needed to learn something entirely new is not easy to come by. The rules do have a means for players to pick up any number of new skills they wish, even if they aren't exactly... convenient for most campaigns.

[FightStyles]

Ok, I like the specialized skill prof. idea along with the practical use of such tools.

As for the crafting items/weapons, I would probably not use the RAW way of doing them. However, the players have not shown much interest in doing such activities just yet anyways, other than very mild interest in potion making because of an incomplete potion of invisiblity recipie.

Maybe I should put together a list of tool prof. with their attributes gained in a clear concise format. It might them to actually choose a tool prof. I might even leave it slightly open up if they homebrew a tool prof. to spark a little interest (at my discretion of course).

[Myzz]

I'm supposing that they all went Soldier or Guild Mechant (variant of Artisan) so that they have Vehicles (land)... if not, make Riding Horses Land Vehicles... the actual horse is not a vehicle, its the motor so to speak... The bit, bridle, and saddle use are the vehicle...

When cooking dinner around the camp fire, make them roll cooking check (cook's untensils) a failure could result in burnt and unedible food wasting (valuable?) resources and not getting any sustenance, if they dont eat they dont get the benefit of a long rest till they do so... multiple failures to eat could result in exhaustion levels...

Without navigator's tools they might become lost...

Don't allow unlock checks without thieves tools...

Don't allow poison use without Poison kit...

require that they fix their weapons and armor after each encounter... or at short rest. a failed check reduces that items effectiveness by one (Ac-1, or -1 dmg, or -1 to hit) or make it so that until the item is fixed a crit will destroy the item... Smiths tools, leather workers tools, wood carver or Carpenter's tools...

I am not advocating the use of any of the above ideas... but if you want to force your PC's to value those skills they are worth looking into. There is a plethora of nasty lil mean things you can do if you so desire!

<edit add: I actually don't think they should get skills for free. I have no issue with the tools or languages however. To pick up skills, I think they should have to spend the downtime and gp OR expend and ASI to get the 3 from the feat skilled. Acquiring the same skill a second time could function as your expertise...>

[Daishain]

I am not advocating the use of any of the above ideas... but if you want to force your PC's to value those skills they are worth looking into. There is a plethora of nasty lil mean things you can do if you so desire!
I don't think I would suggest doing anything of the sort. If the players in question wanted to play a simulationist game, there are MUCH better systems out there in that category than D&D. Since they presumably don't, bogging them down in annoying minutia like that is likely to end with an empty table.

Much better to make something interesting than to force it down their throats.

[FightStyles]

Much better to make something interesting than to force it down their throats.

I definitely agree with this, and it's what I would like to do. Interest comes down to the player and the character they are playing. With that in mind, I will probaby homebrew a couple tools/kits that will play on the background and playstyles of the players and their characters.

[Myzz]

I don't think I would suggest doing anything of the sort. If the players in question wanted to play a simulationist game, there are MUCH better systems out there in that category than D&D. Since they presumably don't, bogging them down in annoying minutia like that is likely to end with an empty table.

Much better to make something interesting than to force it down their throats.

well the players are obviously attempting to min/max resources... and ignoring the playability of tools and professions... If that's their game and the DM / OP wants them to move away from that mode. Then there should be a talk about it. If they still don't want to expend resources for those things or utilize them, and the DM wants them to. Then the DM needs to have consequence for ignoring the day to day upkeep.

Your suggestion amounts to "Hey, DM... Suck it up and Run the game your players want you to. Your players don't want that stuff so ignore it!"

If you meant something different I apologize.

My understanding of the OP was: "How can I make these skills meaningful." Others have put in 'fluff', I'm simply pointing out consequences for ignoring the tools that each player has and the DM is feeding them!

For instance... Someone should have learned how to cook something after a few months of travel on the road... At least enough to create something edible! Which is what proficiency in Cooking Utensils is... Of course they could all be eating GoodBerries (thats what we did in my campaign, until the DM said that we were starting to be constipated and was thinking of adding levels of exhaustion if we dont actually consume some food). In the campaigns I run, GoodBerries provide perfect sustenance and have no negative effects at all, being magical in nature!