Leadership build conflict - Decisions, decisions

[thecrimsondawn]

So I am making a few builds for a game that I am in. The DM has confided in me with several major plot points so that I may help him balance the game out for the current players, as well as point out any holes. With our current party, I see us killing all but one of the various bosses he has made, but at the cost of much of the world being ruined. Thus I am preempting this situation by making a leadership build to help restore order to a land in chaos and people divided for later on.

There is a rather well written topic on here about Leadership that I have read and it more or less boils down to two leadership types
A leader of large mass of people - either country, city, or an army OR
A great war general who fights with his followers, as well as those he inspires.

Building a war general I found was very easy to do with options such as marshal and bard, and arcane/divine power choices, but building a leader who is built more for skills and less for combat is a lot harder I find.

These are a few conflicts that come to my mind
-Must have a vast number of social skills and knowledge's to deal with the many issues a leader would face
This means I need to focus on high skill point classes even taking into account able learner should I cross class.
-Needs some sort of party support skills
One way or another, I will still be making a character that is part of a party that is going out to fight to change and fix the messed up world. As such, he will need ways to defend himself, or fight back.
-Needs defense vs those who seek to manipulate me with arcane,psychic, or divine means
Face it, if you where a type of person that wanted power or control over a city or a person, you would almost always turn to either blackmail or magic related means to control them. 3.5 has a few strong counters to this, but they conflict with some of the others. CHA to saves is one. psionics and magic are split in our game so MR and PR would be two different things. My stats will be split, but Int, Wis, and Cha will all be above average for this build while having a lower then average Str, Dex, and Con. (32 point buy 1 for 1 rules)

All books and templates are allowed from 3.0-3.5, and no LA limit. Current level is 10, but I expect to need this build by lv 14-15ish when my current character's mission is up.


Does anyone have any suggestions? Feats, classes, skill tricks, or anything?

Thanks

[BowStreetRunner]

Have you considered a Bard with Bardic Knack from PH2 page 35?

[Demidos]

First thing i thought of as well (the bard).

If you dont like bard, perhaps a factotum, a sorcerer, or a paladin? If you use partial gestalt, the paladin's skill points could be boosted up with those of an expert. If you are comfortable playing a classy LE you could go paladin of tyranny into blackguard for some more nice synergy there.

There's a nymph-kissed feat that gives you bonus skill points (AND bonuses to charisma checks. Score!). That and human give you +2 skill points per level.

But honestly sounds like you are describing a bard. With knack and jack of all trades and the +2 skill points per level and say, 14 int, you'd have 10 maxxed out skills and the rest at half your level.

Oh, and get an admiral's bicorne. Those things are awesome, but i've never had enough gold to justify it. Do it! :smallbiggrin:

[thecrimsondawn]

Woah!
Ive never heard of Bardic Knack before. I love that class option!
It would force me to go heavy Bard tho if I went that route, but that helps a lot!

I find jack of all trades useful in some situations, but ultimately unless I am trying to go for rogue skills I would mostly be taking something like that for the many knowledge options - something I can get with the Educated feat at first lv.

nymph-kissed is another feat ive never heard of before but is simply amazing. With a couple of flaws, and being human, thats almost like having 4 more int points!

Are there any other feats, classes, or tricks to get more skill points that I dont know?

Also, if I was to say - cross class, or prestige class a bard, and that class gets bardic knowledge, would that just give me bardic knowledge, or would it advance my Bardic Knack? Bard is fun, but unless you are focusing on just music, they often shine the brightest when you prestige them. :)

Edit:
One more question -
Nymph's Kiss
"Fey creatures regard you as though you were fey. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-related checks and a +l bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities"
What is defined as a charisma related check? I am assuming skill "check" or a straight up Cha roll check only?

[gorfnab]

If you're going with Bard, I suggest reading these two handbooks:
Bard's Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8686)
Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8936.0)

Don't forget to grab a Circlet of Persuasion.

[BowStreetRunner]

...It would force me to go heavy Bard tho if I went that route...
Also, if I was to say - cross class, or prestige class a bard, and that class gets bardic knowledge, would that just give me bardic knowledge, or would it advance my Bardic Knack? Bard is fun, but unless you are focusing on just music, they often shine the brightest when you prestige them. :)
Some DMs will allow levels in another class/prestige class that advance bardic knowledge to also count for bardic knack instead. It's not RAW, but still worth asking your DM in advance because it would give you a bit more flexibility.

I find jack of all trades useful in some situations, but ultimately unless I am trying to go for rogue skills I would mostly be taking something like that for the many knowledge options - something I can get with the Educated feat at first lv.
In this case, jack of all trades has great synergy with bardic knowledge because bardic knowledge still does not allow you to make skill checks untrained. Jack of all trades bypasses the need to put 1 rank into every skill that needs to be trained to use, freeing up the points in order to max another skill.

nymph-kissed is another feat ive never heard of before but is simply amazing. With a couple of flaws, and being human, thats almost like having 4 more int points!
While you do not get the 4x skill points at first level, it really does give you more skill points than any other feat of which I know, with the freedom to put them where you want. Open minded (+5 skill points) isn't even close by comparison.

Are there any other feats, classes, or tricks to get more skill points that I dont know?
Actually, race is something to consider heavily. Human and if available Sea Kin and Underfolk (both in RoD) all get the +1 skill point per level, while Gray Elves get a +2 INT bonus that amounts to much the same thing. Another good race to consider is Illumian (also in RoD), as their bonuses to skill checks can cover a considerable number of skills, depending on the sigils you choose. As for classes, Uncanny Trickster is often used when needing to dip into a skill-poor class for any reason. For instance, if you are considering a dip into Warlock for the warlock's skill-based invocations, instead of a bunch of warlock levels, mixing in uncanny trickster can get you the effective warlock levels without sacrificing skill points. I wouldn't recommend it for a bardic knack build, but if you end up going a different direction it is worth keeping in mind.

What is defined as a charisma related check? I am assuming skill "check" or a straight up Cha roll check only?
Charisma checks, skill checks for Charisma based skills, and Turning checks are all charisma related checks.

[Vertharrad]

If your going the Nymph's Kiss Bardic Knack route you might think about mutliclassing with paladin of freedom instead, NK requires you be good...if your GM is a stickler for rules that is. Pick up 2 levels of pal to get cha to saves and 3 levels if you want immunity to disease, it won't dent your Bardick Knack too much. As for SR and PR I don't know.

[thecrimsondawn]

If your going the Nymph's Kiss Bardic Knack route you might think about mutliclassing with paladin of freedom instead, NK requires you be good...if your GM is a stickler for rules that is. Pick up 2 levels of pal to get cha to saves and 3 levels if you want immunity to disease, it won't dent your Bardick Knack too much. As for SR and PR I don't know.

Oh ya, I tried that, but our DM really does not like the idea of non LG pallys, despite my very good argument vs it. Right now we are in a single god world, and the method to gaining divine ranks exists only in the void.
I guess for this world it makes sense, but the X to Y thread is on my hotbar on firefox for a good reason - I have plenty of cha to whatever options at my disposal :)