How Strong is A Greater Fey?

[Sullivan]

My party is meeting one and I'm not a 100% that they won't try and kill it, so what do you guys think re-skin an Ancient Dragon or make some new stats? If the latter what would be somethings to consider?

[Naanomi]

I'd build it as a high level PC spellcaster; bard aorcerer or illusionist probably

[Sullivan]

That's a good idea. bump up HD to god mode, then give it all the damage output of a high level pc. The different spells and trick could make the encounter more memorable too. add some legendary actions and the'll never want to square off with a Fey again.

[kaoskonfety]

If you are talking Fae Pact demi-god from another world Thing - their strentgth is exactly as mad or underwhelming as you'd like.

I'd be prone to assume a 18+ level party can present them a chalange if the party knows what its doing. Winning probably doesn't kill the thing either, just prevents it from reforming for 100 years and a day, or forces it to grant you each a wish or, or or.... you can dial it down to whatever level is fitting for your group...

I'd start by broadstrokes some heavy immunities and resistances:

Sleep, charm, fear, posion, age, disease, illusions - immune.
Legendary creaurture saves
Resistant to all sourses of damage that are not pure iron (feel free to swap this out for gold, silver, wood, tears... ya... tears...).
Regeneration of moderatly silly - suppressed if they have been in contact with pure iron. (seriously did someone bring iron?)

Offencive choises are interesting - I'm not sure if I'd be all over charms and illusions to have the party fighting itself or if I roll with a summoner/transmuter or if i'd hand them a +3 icebrand silver long sword and up the AC, regeneration and hubris "you DARE! I will kill you myself!" (and the rest of the court watches uncaring...).

For lair actions find a theme - maybe the seasons:
spring entagles the heroes doing some light damage and messing up mobility
Summer heals the big bad yet more, fire or radiance damage, maybe a blinding attack?
Fall dispels effects the party has on them or counterspells once
Winter - cold damage

[Rfkannen]

Hmm, hard one. a great fey is a lot more powerful than an ancient dragon, they are probably a bit weaker than tiamet. So maybe refluff her?

[Sullivan]

...reforming for 100 years and a day
That exactly what happens when a Fey dies in my world from here on out, well played.

Nerfing Tiamet a little would probably work too. My player are only 12th level so they shouldn't be able to kill this thing quite yet, and the only reason they're meeting it in the first place is a string of bad calls, so I'm just worried they might be keeping that streak alive. I think they'll get the picture though. as far as long term goes, it would be a good state block to have stashed in the note's somewhere for down the road.

[kaoskonfety]

Flipping though the monster manual I'd either crib off the Lich of the Death Knight for my base depending on if I'm looking at a Dashing Fairy Knight or the Galadriel "Beautiful and Terrible like the Sun!". They are both big enough bads that they won't need TOO many changes.

I'll go with lich - swap the caster stat to Charisma and move the big number there, bump up the charisma a couple points to get "very inhuman" save DC's, drop the Con the same amount - this is after all a gentleman or lady - not some undead THING. Swap the spell list to... let go Illusion/Charmer focused with some radiance effects from the Bard and Warlock lists (pick your poison) - the Fae lord sings and the world changes... feels cool. Pulls down the lethal effects/raw damage and give some wiggle room to buff defence

Any resistance immunities swap out to the ones I listed (the fae resistance is broader yes, but iron is easy to come by if you know you need it - a few dozen commoners with iron tipped crossbow bolts and iron shod cudgels is a non-trivial threat, a bunch of ill prepared adventurers with magic items that are not pure iron are boned) looking at lich I also like the immune to exhaustion - stealing that too.

Replace turn resist with regeneration... 30? Is that way too good? Not good enough? I'm not used to balancing at this level in 5th yet. Suppressed by contact with Iron (not just damage, so there is some room for clever if someone has a horseshoe and a lasso). This with resistance to all other damage make the fight ALOT easier if you are armed for it and vicious if you are not. A feel I like with the "foreign to the world" types. And of course if only one PC has iron they are getting all the charm targeting they can stand... and then some more.

Ditch paralyze touch. Maybe a charming gaze... no the Umber Hulks confusion gaze and give it a 60' range, that's funnier "you are lost on her (his?) eyes and all the world goes hazy"- lets steal that, leave the DC reasonable - say 15 - those with the stat and that save generally resist, those without sometimes save. "We dare not look at their beauty" is also cool. Bump the DC if you think it needs it (or allow a Legendary or Lair action to boost it)

Legendary actions... all of them but disrupt life are fine - just ditch it. I don't think it needs replacing.

And bang. Bad dude.

[Sullivan]

Flipping though the monster manual I'd either crib off the Lich of the Death Knight for my base depending on if I'm looking at a Dashing Fairy Knight or the Galadriel "Beautiful and Terrible like the Sun!". They are both big enough bads that they won't need TOO many changes.

I'll go with lich - swap the caster stat to Charisma and move the big number there, bump up the charisma a couple points to get "very inhuman" save DC's, drop the Con the same amount - this is after all a gentleman or lady - not some undead THING. Swap the spell list to... let go Illusion/Charmer focused with some radiance effects from the Bard and Warlock lists (pick your poison) - the Fae lord sings and the world changes... feels cool. Pulls down the lethal effects/raw damage and give some wiggle room to buff defence

Any resistance immunities swap out to the ones I listed (the fae resistance is broader yes, but iron is easy to come by if you know you need it - a few dozen commoners with iron tipped crossbow bolts and iron shod cudgels is a non-trivial threat, a bunch of ill prepared adventurers with magic items that are not pure iron are boned) looking at lich I also like the immune to exhaustion - stealing that too.

Replace turn resist with regeneration... 30? Is that way too good? Not good enough? I'm not used to balancing at this level in 5th yet. Suppressed by contact with Iron (not just damage, so there is some room for clever if someone has a horseshoe and a lasso). This with resistance to all other damage make the fight ALOT easier if you are armed for it and vicious if you are not. A feel I like with the "foreign to the world" types. And of course if only one PC has iron they are getting all the charm targeting they can stand... and then some more.

Ditch paralyze touch. Maybe a charming gaze... no the Umber Hulks confusion gaze and give it a 60' range, that's funnier "you are lost on her (his?) eyes and all the world goes hazy"- lets steal that, leave the DC reasonable - say 15 - those with the stat and that save generally resist, those without sometimes save. "We dare not look at their beauty" is also cool. Bump the DC if you think it needs it (or allow a Legendary or Lair action to boost it)

Legendary actions... all of them but disrupt life are fine - just ditch it. I don't think it needs replacing.

And bang. Bad dude.

Shut up and take my money! Thats awesome man thanks. best dm tool on the net is other player and dm's. I still got a week till they meet up with this girl, but I'm looking forward to a cathartic TPK if they catch a wild hair and do something foolish. no one lives forever right?

[rollingForInit]

A lot of great ideas in this thread. I like the idea of modding the Lich or Death Knight, depending if you want a melee or spellcaster.

If you want this to be an epic battle that it's almost not winnable, but aren't sure how to balance reworks, I'd just improvise a bit during the battle. Decide whether or not you want the PC's to be able to win. Use a decent monster for a basis, build a Fey you think looks really cool, and then, if the PC's fight it, have the fight turn out the way you want. Are they supposed to be able to win, and you feel that they've put up a good enough fight with decent tactics, but the Fey turns out too strong? Tone it down. Load the dice, so to speak, in the party's favour, have the Fey miss/deal less damage and have it "die" even if though it still has lots of HP.

On the other hand, if you want it to be a fight that cannot be won, and you realise the Fey is too weak ... just boost it. Have it use some superior, non-classified Fey magic that suddenly gives it resistance to Fire (if the party uses a lot of Fire damage). Enable it to cast Heal as a special ability. Have to turn Invisible, give it advantage on stealth checks. Decide that all of its spells/attacks suddenly deal max damage. Just give it enough stats to be able to fight with it easily, but wing it in a way that makes it overpowered.

[mrumsey]

I think you could also play with the possibility that this creature may not kill them. If they don't present a challenge, but CAN prove useful, bringing them to their knees and inflicting a curse/charm effect on them could be interesting. They could even maintain their wild side by trying to break the Fey's control and regain their 'manhood' that they lost by being beaten by a 'faerie'.

[Myzz]

When you set up the meet... I'd have the Fey running Hallucinatory Terrain (maybe the Lair does it for him as an extension of will) All the Fey in the court can see through it but the PC's would have to pass a DC 20 check at disadvantage (being in the Fey Wild and this Fey's Domain). The scene could be exactly what the PC's expect it to look like, and they hear titters of twinkling laughter and giggles from unidentified sources...

The Fey they meet is actually the Fey's Illusion, and they might have to fight that for a bit till they realize its an illusion. At which point they may or may not actually fight the real Fey Lord...

Realize that a level 14 Illusionist Wizard has Illusory Reality and can make 1 part of the illusion real... Say the illusion of the Fey Lord so it actually takes dmg... Or just the Fey's Breastplate and the rest of him appears incorperal, after they witness the illusion cast something like Etherealness (Arcana Check DC 15? or just tell them after any roll result that it looked similar to Eherealness...) Perhaps an ArchFey would have 2 or 3 parts that could become real... Like his weapon as well...

<Basically a God and in this case a God-Like being, would be nigh impossible to defeat in their own realm.

My favorite for example is removing the air for all those except who the Entity desires to have air... Reverse Gravity, or constantly changing the origin for gravity, or the amplitude except for those designated by the Entity...>

[kaoskonfety]

Kneel and you may yet live.... like it.

If you are looking at kiling them for their hubris, power to you. Its my favourite way to watch the players off themselves. They do it so spectacularly sometimes...

If you WANT them to live this build also lacks Power Word Kill and will likely win with most of the party some flavour of dominated/lost in illusions/maze/confused and dying but not dead. Binding the party to the Faes service, to go fulfill their bidding in the mortal lands, can give a pile of new story options for immidiate questing and eventually freeing themselves from the bad clutches. And if they go in for round 2 armed for the fight...
Well she is delighted they came by! They have been expected there shall be a feast! When they don't fall for the eating fairy food trap (by this point thay should be well informed on Fae lore, so if they do eat it... HA!)... now make every effort kill them for their hubris. Add some unicorns, maybe a re-skined vampire "consort". Or say 5-10 lvl 3 high elven warlocks.

[Sullivan]

I don't think I'll all out kill them if they wanna fight, but I like the idea of letting them know who is in charge. I'll just take that build you through together, but add ignorant regen and a few big hit spell so they can think about what there doing before things get out of there control. In game I have painted the fey as being very strong and eluded to plenty of "are you sure you want to do that?". Also as the character is right now in my head she would make it out to be a big laugh and ask something akin to seeing if she could invite her court in first and make it a party.

[Rfkannen]

Oh one thing, make sure that the fey can cast every spell that a level 20 fey pact warlock could cast. If the warlock can do it why couldnt the fey?

[TheOOB]

I prefer the 7th Sea rules, the fair folk always succeed any check unless it is dramatically appropriate for them to fail in which case they will do so willingly. A greater fey should not be something that can be defeated through force of arms but rather through roleplay.