First Time Psion Advice

[Drago-Morph]

Hola everyone! I'm obviously the new guy in town, only been playing D&D for about a year and a half. My crew and I are about to start a new campaign and we were given the go ahead to pull from any books we wanted. I stumbled onto the Psion and absolutely fell in love with the flavor and mechanics of it.

My group's pretty low optimization, but they're all significantly more experienced than I am at playing the game, by like ten-twenty years. So that, combined with finding min-maxing generally fun, has lead me to try and build a strong character so I can keep up despite my playstyle deficiencies and lack of experience. So I looked up some build guides and other Psion advice and came up with this level seven build:

Base attributes (rolled for character building, subject to be re-rolled):

STR - 14
DEX - 16
CON -17
INT - 18 (17+1)
WIS - 14
CHA - 15

Race: Kalashtar

Classes: Psion (Kineticist) 5/Anarchic Initiate 2

Feats:

- Psicrystal Affinity
- Hidden Talent (Astral Construct)
- Overchannel
- Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
- Empower Power

Powers:

- Inertial Armor
- Vigor
- Entangling Ectoplasm
- Grease, Psionic
- Precognition, Defensive
- Astral Construct
- Share Pain
- Control Sound
- Ego Whip
- Energy Missile
- Time Hop
- Touchsight
- Energy Wall
- Telekinetic Force
- Divination, Psionic
- Control Body
- Metamorphosis

With a Nimble Psicrystal.

My goal is to be a utility blaster. Not looking to straight up munchkin at all, I'd like to keep things fair for everyone, but any tips for making this build more efficient would be greatly appreciated. As far as my specialization, I'd be willing to switch over to Shaper, but I'm hesitant because from what I hear it needs some creativity to work it, and I tend to get jammed up in the spot.

[Wolfofmibu66]

I'm by no means an expert on Psionics, and my experience is more pathfinder based than 3.5, but I've got the old books so I'll try to formulate an answer as best I can.

a Kineticist has a good deal in common with an evoker type wizard/sorcerer. You need to deal with some of the same problems (weak in melee, lower hp, spell/power interruptions), but your anarchic dip will help with that somewhat, and several of your powers chosen are slanted towards self-preservation. The specifics you'll get through kineticist (energy ball/cone, Tornado blast, etc) will give you a larger advantage as a "blaster".

As a shaper, you'd have to deal with your astral construct, which basically means you'd get to customize a minion when you cast the spell, and it'd get better with time, but other than that, the shaper is better at battlefield control (ectoplasm powers), creating/repairing items (fabricate, mending type), and as such doesn't fulfill the "blaster" role you seem to want.

another point is that only about half of the name of the game is your build, and with 350 exp and 10 minutes, you can re-write your (or another players) feats, spells, and skills at any time, for any reason, with the Psychic Reformation power (general Psion/wilder power).

The other half of this would be items, so dorjes, psicrowns, a torc of power preservation, Psychoactive skins, etc. Mostly the thing you have going for you, and it's not necessarily unique to Psionicists, is your ability to "go nova". Since you don't have the restriction of spell slots, you could manifest your highest level power as many times as you have PP for it, and at as high or low of an augmentation level as you can afford (dictated by your Manifester Level (caster level(character level))).

If you wanted to do more prc dips, i might suggest uncarnate, since metamind iirc is regarded as pretty terrible, and incorporeality is a decent dodge mechanic. Otherwise I'd probably say just stick with straight psion, keep building for the end tier kineticist blaster'o'doom, and enjoy the mayhem.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Every time you gain a level, consider taking Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) as your new power known, then immediately use it on yourself to repick any feats, skills, and powers, including psychic reformation itself. Definitely do this at Anarchic Initiate 3, since its own wild surge class feature will meet its own prerequisite and you can swap Overchannel to a different feat.

Here's one of the better psion handbooks (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0). If you find yourself lacking versatility, you can just Psychic Reformation yourself some different powers/feats the next time you level up.

[Karl Aegis]

I would look into Dimension Hop, Synchronicity, Crystalstorm, Psionic Dimension Door and Energy Lance from Complete Psionics.

The feats Psionic Split Ray (both rays can be targeted on the same target) and Psionic Meditation are probably also worth looking into, as is Imperious Command from Drow of the Underdark for when you want to frighten someone without spending power points. Combine with the skill trick Never Outnumbered and you're intimidating everyone around you (skill tricks are in Complete Scoundrel).

Since you have Autohypnosis as a class skill, you should use it often. Many will tell you how amazing this skill actually is.

You don't qualify for Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) yet. You need to be able to manifest 5th level powers before you can learn it with Expanded Knowledge.

[Feint's End]

I'll give you my opinion on some of the choices and some general information on how to play a Psion.


Hola everyone! I'm obviously the new guy in town, only been playing D&D for about a year and a half. My crew and I are about to start a new campaign and we were given the go ahead to pull from any books we wanted. I stumbled onto the Psion and absolutely fell in love with the flavor and mechanics of it.

My group's pretty low optimization, but they're all significantly more experienced than I am at playing the game, by like ten-twenty years. So that, combined with finding min-maxing generally fun, has lead me to try and build a strong character so I can keep up despite my playstyle deficiencies and lack of experience. So I looked up some build guides and other Psion advice and came up with this level seven build:

Well Psion is always a good choice and they fare very well in low optimization. However you should learn to manage your pp carefully depending on your campaigns style (one big encounter a day or many small ones).


Base attributes (rolled for character building, subject to be re-rolled):

STR - 14
DEX - 16
CON -17
INT - 18 (17+1)
WIS - 14
CHA - 15

Race: Kalashtar

Classes: Psion (Kineticist) 5/Anarchic Initiate 2

Very high stats so that's nice (although you don't really need them all that high). Pretty standard combination there. You should note though that Kineticist is one of the weaker specializations. Not to say it is weak but rather there are more powerful ones (like shaper for example). If you want to go blaster / utility then it's a strong choice.


Feats:

- Psicrystal Affinity
- Hidden Talent (Astral Construct)
- Overchannel
- Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
- Empower Power

Ok here I have some remarks:
-Prsicrystal Affinity is a must have (nimble a good choice)
-Overchannel is a great choice and needed for Anarchic Initiate so good choice
-Hidden Talent (Astral Construct) is very solid. For a pure blaster I'd look into Dimension Hop (cheap swift action teleport ... makes you extremely mobile) instead but utility wise Astral Construct is more flexible. Comes down to playstyle a bit.

problems:
-Empower Power. At this level empower is not a good feat. First off for rays you can use split psionic ray. That should be your single target damage power. For mooks you likely don't need empower anyways till late in the game (and at level 7 empower doesn't really do all that much for you ... depending on how your dm rules with the bonusdamage from cold and fire getting multiplied or not this feat can actually make your energy missile worse off).
Pick Split Psionic Ray instead and use it for single target damage. Much more efficient.
-You don't qualify for EK (Metamorphosis) (also you don't get a feat at 7th level so even if you could pick same level powers you wouldn't qualify). Instead get Psionic Meditation. It's a must have feat for Blasters anyways and since you'll likely have Split Psionic Ray you can now use it every round if you have to.

On a sidenote you shouldn't get EK (Metamorphosis) at level 9. Not because it's a bad choice (it is indeed one of the most powerful ones) but rather because there is something else you want with EK. Namely Schism. Especially for Blasters it's a must have because it lets you either get another (albeit) weaker blast out or manifest damage and utility in the same round. Must have for any non Telepath Psion (They can pick it as a regular power).



Powers:

- Inertial Armor
- Vigor
- Entangling Ectoplasm
- Grease, Psionic
- Precognition, Defensive
- Astral Construct
- Share Pain
- Control Sound
- Ego Whip
- Energy Missile
- Time Hop
- Touchsight
- Energy Wall
- Telekinetic Force
- Divination, Psionic
- Control Body
- Metamorphosis

Powers are very solid. I'd change a few things however.
-One of your first level powers for Energy Ray or Crystal Shard (latter has the advantage of ignoring pr although at a somewhat lower damage .... at higher levels it's the safer option and single strong enemies often have pr or sr)
-Consider picking up Synchronicity instead of one of the other powers (either the other cc power or Precognition). It gives you a lot more options to interact with combat and makes you therefor more flexible. I personally would keep Entangling Ectoplasm and replace Precognition and Grease with Synchronicity and Crystal Shard.
-As I've mentioned at the feat section consider changing astral construct for dimension hop .... depends on the flavour you are going for.

-Control Sound is a bit mediocre for a second level power. Consider something like Energy Adaption, specified or Detect Hostile Intent (latter can be very powerful to detect ambushes and good in social situations too).

-For level 3 you should have Dispel Psionics. Period. Now that's a tough choice because all the powers you chose are very good. Touchsight is a must have at later levels so you can't get rid of that. Replace one of the others of your choosing. Dispel is just way too necessary to skip it.

-For 4th level: Control Body is sadly very bad. It just allows to many resistances. I'd get Energy Ball for the times you really have to dispatch a lot of enemies (this + Energy Missile + Crystal Shards / Energy Ray will cover all your blasting needs for a long time). Divination is a nice utility addition so keep that. You might want to get Freedom of Movement at next level because Grapple is a thing (This also means you can safely lose Grease as a first level power). Dimensiondoor, Psychic Reformation (as has been mentioned you can just pick that at level up and get some changes in your build) are both very useful (I'd personally go with Dimensiondoor ... loses some utility if you got Dimension Hop but Teleportation is still nice).



My goal is to be a utility blaster. Not looking to straight up munchkin at all, I'd like to keep things fair for everyone, but any tips for making this build more efficient would be greatly appreciated. As far as my specialization, I'd be willing to switch over to Shaper, but I'm hesitant because from what I hear it needs some creativity to work it, and I tend to get jammed up in the spot.

Well Shaper is a solid option if you want to play a Psion with combat pets. The problem is that you need a few feats ´(and 2 PRCs) to make the best out of it. It is a strong build (having powerful melees + all the combat utiltiy) but requires some work. Personally I'd suggest you stay with the Blaster Build for now. It is a bit easier to handle and you can get the hang of the system. Also a well built Shaper might be too much for a low op group (you'd literally outfight the fighter).

[ZamielVanWeber]

I just want to recommend Linked Power since you have Astral Construct. You can manifest a 1/2 point vigor and link it to Astral Construct, so you get to avoid the one round casting time. It has other uses too (it is a nice feat if you use it well) and you really do have the power set to make good use of it.

[Telok]

Manifest a power from another's powers known. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown)

You'll need a decent UPD skill to get off-list powers through power stones but this allows you to grab a stone with a power you'll only use one a day to most and free up a known power for something you'll use repeatedly.

Consider grabbing Psionic Body if you have more than a few psionic feats. With good selection you only need about five attack powers over your career, pick one strong single target, one good area effect, and something with a different save or two. I'm partial to Energy Ray/Crystal Shard, Energy Wall, Ego Whip/Hostile Empathic Transfer, Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Psionic Disintegrate, and (if you see lots of low Will weapon users at high levels) Retrieve*. But don't get all of them.

Dimensional Anchor, Detect Remote Viewing and Trace Teleport can be requirements at higher levels depending on the game, but you can reform into them when you need to. Psionic True Seeing, Power Resistance, Personal Mindblank, Shatter Mindblank, Energy Adaptation, Bend Reality, and Greater Psionic Teleport will almost certainly be on your list eventually.

Have the stats for you astral constructs written down and ready when you use them. Include the menu choices on the same paper and the bonuses/numbers for what they do. It is a sin to summon and then stop the game for everyone while you look up the summons in a book.

*<Yoink> Sorry balor, it's my vorpal sword now. I don't think we ever say another spiked chain or brilliant energy weapon using NPC after I got that power.

[Drago-Morph]

Thank you everyone for all the fantastic advice! It's really improving the character considerably. Keep it coming!


Ok here I have some remarks:
-Prsicrystal Affinity is a must have (nimble a good choice)
-Overchannel is a great choice and needed for Anarchic Initiate so good choice
-Hidden Talent (Astral Construct) is very solid. For a pure blaster I'd look into Dimension Hop (cheap swift action teleport ... makes you extremely mobile) instead but utility wise Astral Construct is more flexible. Comes down to playstyle a bit.

problems:
-Empower Power. At this level empower is not a good feat. First off for rays you can use split psionic ray. That should be your single target damage power. For mooks you likely don't need empower anyways till late in the game (and at level 7 empower doesn't really do all that much for you ... depending on how your dm rules with the bonusdamage from cold and fire getting multiplied or not this feat can actually make your energy missile worse off).
Pick Split Psionic Ray instead and use it for single target damage. Much more efficient.
-You don't qualify for EK (Metamorphosis) (also you don't get a feat at 7th level so even if you could pick same level powers you wouldn't qualify). Instead get Psionic Meditation. It's a must have feat for Blasters anyways and since you'll likely have Split Psionic Ray you can now use it every round if you have to.

On a sidenote you shouldn't get EK (Metamorphosis) at level 9. Not because it's a bad choice (it is indeed one of the most powerful ones) but rather because there is something else you want with EK. Namely Schism. Especially for Blasters it's a must have because it lets you either get another (albeit) weaker blast out or manifest damage and utility in the same round. Must have for any non Telepath Psion (They can pick it as a regular power).

Ah, yeah, I misread the feat. Thank you for the tips, great stuff! I prefer the flavor and utility of the Astral Construct, so I think I'll stick with that.

But I don't think I qualify for Split Psionic Ray, since that'd be the only metapsionic feat I'd have. That being said, without either that or Empower Power, why would Psionic Meditation be so vital?


Powers are very solid. I'd change a few things however.
-One of your first level powers for Energy Ray or Crystal Shard (latter has the advantage of ignoring pr although at a somewhat lower damage .... at higher levels it's the safer option and single strong enemies often have pr or sr)
-Consider picking up Synchronicity instead of one of the other powers (either the other cc power or Precognition). It gives you a lot more options to interact with combat and makes you therefor more flexible. I personally would keep Entangling Ectoplasm and replace Precognition and Grease with Synchronicity and Crystal Shard.
-As I've mentioned at the feat section consider changing astral construct for dimension hop .... depends on the flavour you are going for.

-Control Sound is a bit mediocre for a second level power. Consider something like Energy Adaption, specified or Detect Hostile Intent (latter can be very powerful to detect ambushes and good in social situations too).

-For level 3 you should have Dispel Psionics. Period. Now that's a tough choice because all the powers you chose are very good. Touchsight is a must have at later levels so you can't get rid of that. Replace one of the others of your choosing. Dispel is just way too necessary to skip it.

-For 4th level: Control Body is sadly very bad. It just allows to many resistances. I'd get Energy Ball for the times you really have to dispatch a lot of enemies (this + Energy Missile + Crystal Shards / Energy Ray will cover all your blasting needs for a long time). Divination is a nice utility addition so keep that. You might want to get Freedom of Movement at next level because Grapple is a thing (This also means you can safely lose Grease as a first level power). Dimensiondoor, Psychic Reformation (as has been mentioned you can just pick that at level up and get some changes in your build) are both very useful (I'd personally go with Dimensiondoor ... loses some utility if you got Dimension Hop but Teleportation is still nice).

Again, thank you for the input, it's greatly appreciated. I'll take your advice and switch up some of these powers. But as far as Dispel Psionics, I don't know how much psionics my DM is going to use (this is the first game I've ever played with him with psionics) and I don't know if he'll be using psionic-magic transparency. Would it be a better idea to wait a level to see how much he handles it, then bring it in if necessary when I Reform away my Overchannel? Or is it really just that important to get ASAP?

[Feint's End]

Ah, yeah, I misread the feat. Thank you for the tips, great stuff! I prefer the flavor and utility of the Astral Construct, so I think I'll stick with that.

But I don't think I qualify for Split Psionic Ray, since that'd be the only metapsionic feat I'd have. That being said, without either that or Empower Power, why would Psionic Meditation be so vital?

Ah my mistake. Then I'd personally take Extend Power instead. It is a very good choice at all levels (and if you can use 3.0 material you can get persistent although the 3.0 version is overpowered so use with caution). You are right that Psionic Meditation is nigh useless then. Hm.
Well you could get Split Psionic Ray instead. This way you have some higher on demand damage (about 1.5 times regular at this level). It's likely once an encounter but who knows ... and you don't have anything that requires you to be focused anyways so not a big loss there. Pick up Psionic Mediation at the first opportunity then (either via getting Overchannel reformed which might be a tricky decision or at level 10 as a regular feat).

Alternatively you can get a feat like Psionic Body temporarily but it doesn't do all that much for you neither. Improved Initiative is another good choice of course (you'll miss that one when you reform it).





Again, thank you for the input, it's greatly appreciated. I'll take your advice and switch up some of these powers. But as far as Dispel Psionics, I don't know how much psionics my DM is going to use (this is the first game I've ever played with him with psionics) and I don't know if he'll be using psionic-magic transparency. Would it be a better idea to wait a level to see how much he handles it, then bring it in if necessary when I Reform away my Overchannel? Or is it really just that important to get ASAP?

This is a very valid question. I have however never seen a DM who doesn't use the transparency rules as it would make psionics quite a lot more powerful in many situations (most enemies don't have pr) and useless in others (as is the case with dispel magic).

Personally you should consider asking your DM beforehand because yes ... Dispel Psionics is vital under transparency rules. Sure you might be able to live one or two levels without. But that would be the case due to no enemies with buffs or magic/psionics. It is overall a power you want to have.
If your DM doesn't know yet or doesn't want to tell you yet (for whatever bizzare reason that might be) then your idea is ok. Leave it be for one level. You'll hopefully live that long.

[Karl Aegis]

You're a Psion. Use Psychic Reformation to get Metapower (Split Crystalstorm) and qualify for Split Psionic Ray.

[Zweisteine]

Every time you gain a level, consider taking Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) as your new power known, then immediately use it on yourself to repick any feats, skills, and powers, including psychic reformation itself. Definitely do this at Anarchic Initiate 3, since its own wild surge class feature will meet its own prerequisite and you can swap Overchannel to a different feat.
NO. You can not do that. If you lose overchannel, you would no longer qualify for Anarchic Initiate. That would be like taking Weapon Specialization then retraining Weapon Focus.

But besides that, that use of Psychic Reformation is a very useful one, and lets you experiment with your build. Just make sure not to burn to much XP on it.


Here's one of the better psion handbooks (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0). If you find yourself lacking versatility, you can just Psychic Reformation yourself some different powers/feats the next time you level up.
I love this handbook. Use it well.

[sideswipe]

psionic meditation (focus as a move action) and talented allow you to cast (as essentially a full round action) any 3rd level or lower power at the caster level boost that overchannel gives you for no damage at all. or you can combine it with being focused from the last round and focusing again to give you a +1-3 ML boost on your blast spells and then applying metapsionics to them for free. i did this as a lvl 10 psion to essentially get my 10d6 low level blasts and then empowering them so 10d6x1.5 and doing the most damage in the party.

on top of this metapsionics take up about 1/2 the penalties metamagic does. just is slightly harder to pull off easily.

[thethird]

NO. You can not do that. If you lose overchannel, you would no longer qualify for Anarchic Initiate. That would be like taking Weapon Specialization then retraining Weapon Focus.

You mean weapon specialization gives weapon focus meeting it's prerequisite? Because anarchic initiate does give wild surge meeting it's prerequisite.

[Zweisteine]

*twitch*

Sure, sure, but generally, things can't meet their own prerequisites. Even if the RAW never says it (I didn't check), it's generally assumed, I think.

Or is it not?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

NO. You can not do that. If you lose overchannel, you would no longer qualify for Anarchic Initiate. That would be like taking Weapon Specialization then retraining Weapon Focus.

Anarchic Initiate requires either the Wild Surge class feature or the Overchannel feat. At its 3rd level, it gives you the Wild Surge class feature, so its own class feature meets its own prerequisite and you no longer need Overchannel.

Your example would be more accurate if you had a prestige class that has Weapon Specialization as a prerequisite, but gives Weapon Focus with that weapon as a bonus feat at its 3rd level. Once you have the 3rd level of the class you can retrain the Weapon Focus feat that you used to qualify for Weapon Specialization, because you'll have a redundant copy of it.

It's similar to a Sorcerer taking Sacred Exorcist, he needs to learn the spell Dismissal to qualify. At its 4th level it gives you Dispel Evil as a spell-like ability, which meets is own prerequisite, so at an even-numbered level you can replace Dismissal with a different spell known.

[Drago-Morph]

You're a Psion. Use Psychic Reformation to get Metapower (Split Crystalstorm) and qualify for Split Psionic Ray.

The only ray I have though (since replacing Precognitive Defense) is Crystal Shard. Is Split Psionic Ray worth a whole feat just for that power?

[ZamielVanWeber]

No, but there are many other delicious ray powers that psionics has that you can pick up. If you have Energy Ray and Crystal Shard you can bypass DR/SR/PR at will by choosing the correct power and then split ray boosts your damage massively. Pick up Disintegrate later for a big boost in utility and the power to gib anything with a bad Fort.

Even if you can only rock it with Crystal Shard early on I am sure you could still make good use of it. 8d6 per touch attack for two touch attacks for 10 pp is still nice.

[Feint's End]

As has been said the reason you take Split Psionic Ray is not only for Crystal Shard although that alone is in my humble opinion reason enough. It is extremely efficient and makes you able to deal with all those boss monsters you'll likely encounter. Spare the energy powers for the times you have to clean groups of mooks quickly.

Later on there are some other nice rays you might want to have and Split Psionic Ray is again a cheap way to double the effectiveness. What's not to love.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Be careful with your power points. It's really easy for a psion to go nova, especially since you don't really have low-level spells/powers like a vancean caster does-- if you augment energy ray up to maximum, you're essentially casting a max-level spell. That's doubly true if you pick up scism or something to take extra actions. Because of this, kineticist is arguably weaker than a normal evoker in standard multiple encounters/day gameplay, despite superior spell/power options.


Anarchic Initiate requires either the Wild Surge class feature or the Overchannel feat. At its 3rd level, it gives you the Wild Surge class feature, so its own class feature meets its own prerequisite and you no longer need Overchannel.
Regardless of whether you can by RAW, you probably shouldn't, especially in a low-op group. Double-especially when you're the new guy in a long-time low-op group, as it sounds like the OP is. It seems like a great way to get scorned for "munchkinry," "cheating optimization," or whatever you want to call it. So regardless of the mechanical virtue of doing that, I'd steer clear due to social reasons.