Ogre and his trustworthy Bacon

[Wacky89]

So I had this funny idea for a upcoming campaign of mine.
Basically I'm looking for a ogre-like SMALL race (Homebrew might be allowed) with ECL 3 or less and he's going to be riding his trustworthy "bacon" (Warbeast Boar).
The campaign is gestalt and I have the following stat array: 18-18-17-17-16-16-15 (yes 7 stats, we're using appearance from BoEF).
Any books are allowed. Starting level is 3
I have no idea of how I'm building the character itself, I just had this idea. I'm coming to the playground for advice on making this sweet character.
Starting gold is 3700, a warbeast boar should only be 150 gp if I'¨m not mistaking? Could also be a Warbeast Dire Boar, depending if the GM will allow it from level 3
The only idea I had was being a druid on the one side so I can get a boar as an animal companion for the giggles.

[FocusWolf413]

I'd say druid/warblade or swordsage. Put an 18 in wisdom, 18 con, 17 (+1 at 4th) in intelligence if warblade, otherwise put the +1 in intelligence. If you are a druid, your other physical stats are mostly irrelevant.

[Kazuel]

Is the whole group going to have stats like that? What was the stat generation method?

[Wacky89]

yea that is a set array of the GM

[Andezzar]

What do you think makes the character ogrelike? The easiest way would probably be to take any small race and refluff it to look like an ogre.

Otherwise a Dungeonbred Half-Ogre (Strongheart) Halfling should also do the trick.

The warbeast template will not work with being an Animal Companion, but an Animal companion gets better anyways.

[Wacky89]

I'd say druid/warblade or swordsage. Put an 18 in wisdom, 18 con, 17 (+1 at 4th) in intelligence if warblade, otherwise put the +1 in intelligence. If you are a druid, your other physical stats are mostly irrelevant.

I don't really want to use wild shape, so my physical stats is gonna matter. I would probably switch out wild shape for monk AC etc. the UA druid variant

[atemu1234]

I don't really want to use wild shape, so my physical stats is gonna matter. I would probably switch out wild shape for monk AC etc. the UA druid variant

Well, the reason wild shape is so good is... well, because it's good. You get to ignore physical stats and instead become a pretty big animal. As opposed to Armor Class, which essentially becomes worthless past level eight or so. Heck, level 1 if your wizard prepares true strike.

[Wacky89]

Well, the reason wild shape is so good is... well, because it's good. You get to ignore physical stats and instead become a pretty big animal. As opposed to Armor Class, which essentially becomes worthless past level eight or so. Heck, level 1 if your wizard prepares true strike.

My intend is not to make the most powerful character, but a flavourful one instead.
Usually I would agree with you, I love wild shaping. But it does not fit the idea in my head

[Andezzar]

OK, you don't want to wild shape, but what do you want to do with the character. A small ogre-like creature on a boar can be pretty much anything from a paladin to a druid to just about any character that simply bought the animal. A bit more information would probably help us make more relevant suggestions.

Also powerful and flavorful are not mutually exclusive.

[Wacky89]

OK, you don't want to wild shape, but what do you want to do with the character. A small ogre-like creature on a boar can be pretty much anything from a paladin to a druid to just about any character that simply bought the animal. A bit more information would probably help us make more relevant suggestions.

Also powerful and flavorful are not mutually exclusive.

After some thinking, I might go with Druid/Barbarian maybe?.
Basically I just want to beat face riding in on my Boar
I'm just buying a Boar/Dire Boar as a Warbeast.
The Animal companion boar would not be warbeast ofc.


What do you think makes the character ogrelike? The easiest way would probably be to take any small race and refluff it to look like an ogre.

Otherwise a Dungeonbred Half-Ogre (Strongheart) Halfling should also do the trick.

The warbeast template will not work with being an Animal Companion, but an Animal companion gets better anyways.

Dungeonbred would not work on that combination, it can only be applied to Aberration, Animal, Magical Beast or Vermin

I guess I could go with Spellwarped Dungeonbred Half-Ogre (Strongheart) Halfling, Barbarian 1 / Druid 3

[Andezzar]

After some thinking, I might go with Druid/Barbarian maybe?.
Basically I just want to beat face riding in on my Boar
I'm just buying a Boar/Dire Boar as a Warbeast.
The Animal companion boar would not be warbeast ofc.I don't think Barbarian and druid have good synergy. Maybe pick one or the other. Alternatively you could take the Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) Variant and get the mount back in through Wild Cohort or Leadership. You could also look up the various über-mount builds.


Dungeonbred would not work on that combination, it can only be applied to Aberration, Animal, Magical Beast or VerminWoops, I missed that. Now where to find a small playable aberration?


I guess I could go with Spellwarped Dungeonbred Half-Ogre (Strongheart) Halfling, Barbarian 1 / Druid 3That's ECL 8, quite a bit more than the ECL 3 of the first post.

[Wacky89]

I don't think Barbarian and druid have good synergy. Maybe pick one or the other. Alternatively you could take the Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) Variant and get the mount back in through Wild Cohort or Leadership. You could also look up the various über-mount builds.

Woops, I missed that. Now where to find a small playable aberration?

That's ECL 8, quite a bit more than the ECL 3 of the first post.

Oh yea forgot spellwarped is LA+3 and Half-Ogre is LA+1. Remember it is a gestalt campaign. So one side would be druid and the other is the LA.

[Andezzar]

Just make sure your DM agrees that it works that way. AFAIK there are no rules for the interaction between LA and Gestalt.

[BilltheCynic]

If you want a super tiny ogre, check out this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?109065-quot-Return-to-Nature-quot-The-World-s-Smallest-Giant-Warlocks-Rejoice). It abuses a poorly worded spell in Seroant Kingdom called Return to Nature to permanently turn any giant smaller and, since it's non-magical thanks to being an immediate spell, it can't be dispelled. You can now make him as small as you like.

For how to abuse being ultra tiny, check out this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?401382-Thumbelina-Giant-s-Bane&highlight=thumbelina). (Note: the linked thread is not built for someone riding a mount, it is built for being a 6 inch tall rogue. Still hilarious, but maybe not quite what you were looking for.)

[ShurikVch]

Woops, I missed that. Now where to find a small playable aberration? http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_73.jpg
http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82153.jpg
http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/ss_gallery/49124.jpg

[Karl Aegis]

Kobolds and Ogres have almost the same fluff. So you're going to want a kobold on a pig. Eat the horrible stats.

[Wacky89]

Another problem is that half ogre cant be applied to aberration :D
Best suggestion so far is Back to Nature.
I could go with the Dolgrim, they're kinda cool. Just looks abit weird

but dafuq is Damage reduction 5/byeshk

[Inevitability]

but dafuq is Damage reduction 5/byeshk

Damage reduction only overcome by byeshk, of course! Just don't ask me what that is...

Also, another small aberration would be a symbiotic halfling/bat swarm. It's actually pretty good.

[atemu1234]

Another problem is that half ogre cant be applied to aberration :D
Best suggestion so far is Back to Nature.
I could go with the Dolgrim, they're kinda cool. Just looks abit weird

but dafuq is Damage reduction 5/byeshk

It's a substance described in Eberron Campaign Setting, IIRC.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Dolgrim are more double goblins fused together due to the madness of the Dalkyr than ogres, but goblins ride pigs, too. So you have that going for you, which, is nice.

As for builds, I recommend either grabbing the wild cohort feat off of the web archives and focus on charging mount fun.

[Wacky89]

Dolgrim are more double goblins fused together due to the madness of the Dalkyr than ogres, but goblins ride pigs, too. So you have that going for you, which, is nice.

As for builds, I recommend either grabbing the wild cohort feat off of the web archives and focus on charging mount fun.

That's some good ideas. I think I'll go with Draconic Mischta (Races of Ansalon). This is the perfect race, they can change shape to a small ogre!
LA2 Bard 1 // Druid 3

[DrKerosene]

I'm pretty sure half-ogre makes you large-sized if you're not already. So I'd go with a Kobold half-ogre and use the Slight-build web-supplement to qualify as Medium.

I think you've found your race, but I wanted to point out that Orogs (Faerun "deep orcs", LA+2) that have been said to be part-ogre in some editions. As a really unlikely choice Mongrelfolk might seem ogre-y enough, but I think in previous editions they've been depicted with lobster hands and being really weird.

Orog may qualify for Orc Druid substitution levels.

Prestige Paladin may be a PrC worth running by your DM if he would allow you to use one of the other Paladin base classes instead of the usual LG version.

Edit: have you considered Mystic Ranger?

[Andezzar]

I'm pretty sure half-ogre makes you large-sized if you're not already. So I'd go with a Kobold half-ogre and use the Slight-build web-supplement to qualify as Medium.Nope. Half-Ogre increases the size by one category if the base creature is small or medium, spellwarped makes the creature an aberration and the dungeonbred template reduces the size by one category. So if you start with small you end with small.

[DrKerosene]

Nope. Half-Ogre increases the size by one category if the base creature is small or medium, spellwarped makes the creature an aberration and the dungeonbred template reduces the size by one category. So if you start with small you end with small.
I appreciate the correction, I'll probably use that whole combo sooner then later for (against) my PCs.

[Zweisteine]

Just make sure your DM agrees that it works that way. AFAIK there are no rules for the interaction between LA and Gestalt.
That is correct. However, this means that RAW says LA applies to both sides.

Or at least, that's what I've heard in previous discussions on the subject.


And if gestalt is in play, I always say use Incarnum. Barbarian//Totemist is awesome.

[Andezzar]

That is correct. However, this means that RAW says LA applies to both sides.Exactly.


And if gestalt is in play, I always say use Incarnum. Barbarian//Totemist is awesome.What's so great about Incarnum and Gestalt? or more specifically, what can a Barbarian//Totemist do that a Barbarian//Wizard cannot do better?

[Inevitability]

What's so great about Incarnum and Gestalt? or more specifically, what can a Barbarian//Totemist do that a Barbarian//Wizard cannot do better?

Well, for one, use class features of both sides at once?

[ShurikVch]

1) How to make your PC smaller (below Medium size)?
Young (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-young-cr-1) template (Pathfinder)
Miniature template (Book of Templates)
Infamous Return to Nature spell

2) How to make your PC more ogre-like (without actually being ogre or half-ogre)?
Ogre Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#ogre)
Ogrillon (Dungeon #083) and Verbeeg (Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, Dungeon #149) are both ogre-kin and Medium-sized
Half-Template metatemplate (Book of Templates) for Ogre - if you take something really short, like Mite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mite_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29) (1 to 2 feet tall; LA +0; Dangerous Denizens) or Jermlaine (~ 1' tall; LA +0; MM2), and chose variant "move the base creature’s size one step toward the base monster’s size", rather than "exact averaging the actual dimensions possessed by each creature and then basing the new size on this total".


Nope. Half-Ogre increases the size by one category if the base creature is small or medium, spellwarped makes the creature an aberration and the dungeonbred template reduces the size by one category. So if you start with small you end with small. Dungeonscape:
CREATING A DUNGEONBRED MONSTER
“Dungeonbred” is an inherited template that can be applied to any living corporeal aberration, animal, magical beast, or vermin that is Large or bigger (referred to hereafter asthe base creature).
So it isn't possible to get Small-sized Dungeonbred anything