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TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-06, 08:51 AM
So in my world design, the elves (called the elvori) are able to control the elements by attuning to them. They go through a process of change once they attune called "tempering", which is sort of like puberty, which physically changes how they look to be more in line with an elemental attunement. The trick is, I'm still trying to figure out what they're base appearance looks like. I know how each elemental attunement changes their appearance, but wanted to variate what classic elves look like. The best thing I can think of is they kind of look like half orcs, but I'm not sure about that either. I'll put what I've got here for Attunement, Tempering, and elvori that do not attune:



Attunement

As an adolescent Elvori begins to experience and learn about the world, they come into contact with various natural concentrations and combinations of the elements. Weather, gravity, the seasons - nearly everything they experience applies to the elements. In addition, through their studies of the elements as well as observing seers that are already attuned, they see examples of how these natural elements can be manipulated.

Eventually, every young Elvori must make the choice of which element they will attune. When this occurs, they then are known as a seer of their element. This choice can be based on many factors - desire, talent, social pressure, or even a calling - a feeling of being drawn by the element itself. For some, the choice is obvious. For others, it may take years for the choice to be reached. Even so, the studies of a young seer cover all the basic features of all four elements, to give a greater knowledge to how the world works, and how the elements interact with each other.

Tempering

Upon choosing a specific element, the body of an Elvori begins to go through a set of changes, known as "Tempering".

The change begins with a chemical reaction that causes a mental awakening, where a seer can now have advanced interactions with the element they have chosen. Tempering also causes a specific hormone to be released into the seer's body. The element a seer choses dictates which hormones are released, and what physical changes the hormone will cause. Every Elvori has the capability to attune, and so each of the four hormone glands is present within their bodies. Attuning activates the neccessary glands, while the others remain dormant.

For a Water Seer, tempering causes their tongue to fork and their nose to flatten some, both of which improve the seer's taste and smell. For a Wind Seer, tempering causes their ears to become longer, and given the ability to be turned some, both of which improve the seer's sense of hearing. For a Fire Seer, tempering causes their eyes to grow larger, and the pupils to change slightly, both of which allow the seer to see in infrared if it chooses, but also allows for a better overall sense of vision. Last, for an Earth Seer, tempering causes their body to grow small, opaque, whisker-like hairs all over their body, which give the seer a heightened sense of touch.

Tempering also triggers a seer's body to begin changing into an adult, and allow the seer to begin to develop reproductively. Tempering lasts for six to seven years, and when an Elvori has fully matured into an adult, each of the four glands stop functioning, or have the capacity to function.

Elvori who Fail to Attune

A high percentage of the Elvori attune to an element, yet for various reasons there are those that fail to do so. This could be a situation they are forced into, such as they were unable to decide which element to take, medically were stunted, or perhaps an individual with malicious intent might prevent an Elvori from attuning. Finally, this situation might be of an Elvori's own volition, and has chosen not to attune for a higher purpose - to become a Scribe. This will be detailed more in the Ultimate Fate section.

When an Elvori fails to attune, they bodily have severe drawbacks when compared to one that has attuned. First, the unattuned cannot go through their tempering stage, and thus are denied any heightening of senses. They also gain a shorter lifespan, generally only living a mere tenth of a normal Elvori's life span. It is as if the intimate connection to the Elements (which these unattuned Elvori are denied) causes the usual Elvori to live longer. Finally, the unattuned are unable to reproduce, as their bodies have not gone through the changes necessary to do so.

With such disadvantages, one would wonder why any sane Elvori would choose not to attune. While it is a huge cost, an unattuned Elvori can manipulate, move, and destroy Premonition Sites, where no attuned Elvori could. This phenomenon suggests that Elvori who do not attune to a specific element, have a much more intimate tie to Fate itself, however fleeting this tie is.



So basically, I'm looking for brainstorming on how to create a being that doesn't just look like a human but better and with pointed ears. Humans in my world are actually half elves, so these guys would share some characteristics I suppose. I've been going with an evolutionary sort of thought process to explaining the different races. What kind of culture would these people have controlling the elements? Any thoughts?



Added details from questions:

Secondary Attunement

Commonly, a seer only attunes to one element, but under certain conditions, two attunements can be attained. The force of Fate must be in power for someone to have multiple attunements, because during this time, a seer's connection to the elements is closer, and capable of more. As a note, Ultimate Fate can only be accomplished in an Age of Fate as well.

If a seer chooses to attune to multiple elements, they must first be already attuned to an element. This is because the process of attunement is a dedicated and complex process. Trying to do two at once would be to counteract the efforts that must be involved. Due to the relationship a seer has with their element, a secondary attunement cannot be an opposite element. So, if a seer was attuned to water, they could choose for a secondary element earth or wind, but they could not attune to fire. This rule is also why a seer could not attune to a third element, because any other element after the first two attunements would be an opposing element.

A seer who has accomplished two attunements has the same amount of power as someone who is only attuned to one, which means they must divide this power between the two. A seer can choose to have both of their elements a similar level of power with each other (1/2 and 1/2), or have one compliment the other (1/4 vs. 3/4). It should be noted that a seer must choose their second attunement before they reach adulthood, or they will not be able to do so.

Progressive Power

As a seer ages and grows more experienced with their element, the area immediately around them takes on more and more the appearance of their attuned element. This is mainly a visual representation of the increasing amount of energy a seer is able to gather as they age. This "bubble of energy" is the energy that is stored for elemental manipulation. For earth, this could be an aura of dust or stillness, while fire might cause a ripple in the air or heat. Water may cause the air around a seer to be damp or cool, and an air seer would seem to always have a breeze around them. These characteristics increase as they age. When a seer of some notable power uses this energy, the effect can appear to be their figure clothed in the element they are attuned.

Elemental Energy

While the a seer has an increased capacity of energy they can gather as they progress, the element still must be drawn from a seer's environment. Each element acts differently, and so, each seer must be conscious of their element's fluctuations so that they can plan to use their element the most during times or areas in which they have the opportunity to replenish their energy. For example, if a fire seer was traveling through a frigid area, it would not be wise for them to expend all their energy quickly, since conditions would not be optimal for gathering more energy in such a climate.

Earth - Always a steady source of energy, never fluctuating. Comes in a constant stream. Absorbing energy from this element smooths out areas of terrain over time, creating flatter areas, or gradual slopes instead of rocky and rough terrain.

Water - A source of energy that accumulates, akin to a basin being filled with liquid. The energy within this basin can be tapped anytime while it is filling, and will continue to fill until it is at capacity. Any tapped energy while filling just sets back the accumulation. Absorbing energy from this element might make freezing areas a little more comfortable, or make tidal patterns calmer.

Wind - Always a fluctuating source of energy, never steady. Comes in a varying stream. Absorbing energy from this element might calm winds, or be protected from harsh winds.

Fire - A source of energy that dissipates, akin to fuel being burned away. The fuel will continue to burn away until it is burned out, and then new energy must be accumulated. Unlike water, energy cannot be tapped when it is being replenished with fire. Absorbing energy from this element might make seering hot areas cooler and more comfortable, or make active volcanos calmer.

The Embrace

After a seer reaches a certain age, they gain enough latent energy to perform an act known as "The Embrace". The Embrace is when a seer who is at full elemental charge unites with the energy around them. The aura around them consolidates to cover a seer's body, and they take on a form resembling a creature consisting totally of the attuned element. When in this form, a seer receives major advances to the capacity at which they can manipulate their element.

Wielding this power is no easy feat, however. Merging with the elements in this way is addictive, and can have destructive consequences for repeated use. A seer that is not careful within this state could lose control. If this happens while actively manipulating an element, there may be unexpected affects, such as causing bodily harm to the seer within the embrace, or even to others nearby. It could even have explosive consequences, such as creating a localized disaster, such as flooding, wind storms, flash fires, or landslides. If one is killed during an Embrace, or by the negative affects of an Embrace that has gotten out of control, they are devoured by the element. The Embrace will rip them apart and leave no trace behind.

Further, the more addicted a seer becomes to the Embrace, the more that seer's personality begins to embody that of their element. Earth seers become increasingly stubborn and unrelenting. Fire seer's tend to become increasily easy to anger. Air seers become unfocused and easily distracted.
Water seers become more apathetic, calm, and disinterested. These are certainly not sudden occurances, and wear off over extended periods of resisting embrace.

These negative affects do not cause Embracing to become taboo in the Elvori society. Embracing is often a necessary task. A seer's education impresses moderation for this sacred technique.

The Final Embrace

At the end of a seer's life, a seer with enough energy can perform an act known as the "Final Embrace" where they become one with their element of attunement. It is essentially merging with the Elemental Expanse.

LibraryOgre
2015-03-06, 10:01 AM
Off the top of my head:

1) Unattuned Elvori look pretty human; their lifespans are 1/10th that of a full elf? So about 60-75 years to the full elf's 600-750? A boring choice, but one with interesting implications for the origins of humanity.

2) Gnomish/halflingish. Similar to the human option, but this plays more to the young elvori being children-sized.

3) Grey aliens. They're not quite hairless, big-headed and expressionless, but they're close. Sort of a flat, uncanny valley sort of look that marks them as clearly not human, and not entirely formed.

M Placeholder
2015-03-06, 10:11 AM
How many elements are there in your game? Is it the usual Fire, Water, Earth and Air, or are there others? Or is it just a huge chaos?

You could have Time Seers, Plant Seers, Void Seers, Psionic Seers and others in your game. Also, when a seer attains a certain level, he gains the ability to look into the associated plane, and also travel there.

Appearances altering by the elements are a good idea. You could have colours of skin changing, eye colour, and also speech changing (more reverb on voice for water, dry and crackly for fire etc).

Another idea is element rejection, when an attuned seer is rejected by the elements, and loses his sanity over time.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-06, 10:13 AM
Off the top of my head:

1) Unattuned Elvori look pretty human; their lifespans are 1/10th that of a full elf? So about 60-75 years to the full elf's 600-750? A boring choice, but one with interesting implications for the origins of humanity.

2) Gnomish/halflingish. Similar to the human option, but this plays more to the young elvori being children-sized.

3) Grey aliens. They're not quite hairless, big-headed and expressionless, but they're close. Sort of a flat, uncanny valley sort of look that marks them as clearly not human, and not entirely formed.


1) I already have a race that looks "pretty human" that, when they mate WITH the Elvori, give us Humans (or half-elves). So I'm inclined to avoid this one, but might be the easiest to manuver. I'd just need some good definition of what "pretty human" looks like without it being - what's the difference?

2) Now this is an idea! I like this a lot, and it actually is interesting for something else: Elves are depicted as short and such in some mythology, but there's also the tolkien-esque elves of modern fantasy. This kind of bridges the gap in a way that says - they're both. And that's something cool. Hmmmm. How would this play into the culture of the elvori society?

3) Interestingly enough, hairless, grey elves are something else in my world. They're basically a sort of cursed sect of elves that were created in a war, called the Grey Elves. They're extreamly evil.

Edit:


How many elements are there in your game? Is it the usual Fire, Water, Earth and Air, or are there others? Or is it just a huge chaos?

You could have Time Seers, Plant Seers, Void Seers, Psionic Seers and others in your game. Also, when a seer attains a certain level, he gains the ability to look into the associated plane, and also travel there.

Appearances altering by the elements are a good idea. You could have colours of skin changing, eye colour, and also speech changing (more reverb on voice for water, dry and crackly for fire etc).

Another idea is element rejection, when an attuned seer is rejected by the elements, and loses his sanity over time.

The classical elements are the only four elements (known as Fate, collectively) - Water, Earth, Fire, and Air. Combinations of these elements create all kinds of things, and if you'd like I can give you a look at the theory I have on the elements in general.

Living things are a complex combination of all four elements into a creature. Living things can't directly be effected by elemental control. So I can't blood bend, or what not. Or affect a mind. Time...is outside of the elements.

russdm
2015-03-06, 06:42 PM
I re-imagined elves for my fantasy world (Still trying to write the stories) by changing up some basics about them. I changed the Mythos and most of the cultural identity. It helps differentiate them from nearly every other elf out there in fantasy.

Traditional/Modern Fantasy Elf: Nature lovers, best fighters, best at magic, always decent and good etc....

My Elves: Descended first off from mixings of ancient humans and orcs by the gods before the gods. They have a natural inclination towards being chaotic and are prone to be impulsive in action. They have the gift of charming magic that they can use to make humans like them better and can use it to manipulate humans. They view themselves as being the only civilization and everything/one else are animals. They only see Elves as worthy of concern or interest, which means they don't perceive other races as being of any concern and have a difficulty seeing them as being equal in thought to elves. If an elf wants something a human has, the elf just takes it. Elves cannot use Iron/steel objects, have a history of being cruel to other races-especially humans and dwarves, rarely live outside elven lands. They have rewritten their entire history to remove anything that suggests that they are the chosen of the gods and the embodiement of good.

They have a completely different morality than humans because they only apply morality to themselves. Humans have trouble comprehending them and vice versa.

TeChameleon
2015-03-07, 02:00 AM
I hope you'll forgive me starting off with a question; if you don't want elves, why make up something else and call that elves instead? *shrug* Never really understood the whole drive to 'reimagine' something, but I guess that's just me. That being said, in one story I wrote, I tweaked elves a little, making them basically walking plants, but that was more for a twist ending than anything else.

As far as Wombat's Elfementals (... er, Elvori) go, another way to run with things is to do the colour-changing thing someone suggested, with the various attunements giving whatever colours (I'd go sea green for water, brown for earth, orange-red for fire, and sky blue for air, but again, just me), while the unattuned, whether Scribe or child, are pure white. I'd also expect the Scribes to morphogenically resemble eunuchs (softer proportions, tendency towards chubbiness, that kind of thing), although having them stay largely childlike instead could work too- go for the 'uncannily wise child' thing.

goto124
2015-03-07, 02:54 AM
Do they eat children? :P

Gritmonger
2015-03-07, 03:53 AM
I'd totally flip the attuned-unattuned advantages/disadvantages.

Tuning to an element - a single one - throws you severely out of balance, and burns through your lifeforce that much faster, as your unbalanced body tries to compensate and hold you together - eventually meaning that if you want to live, you eventually have to migrate to that elemental plane, or discorporate. You have a longer lifespan if you migrate to the elemental planes, since it's easier to sustain yourself in an environment more suited to your chosen element.

Unattuned do not get all the power, but because they remain in balance, they live much longer because they do not burn out. They can have children, which is more difficult for the attuned as they drift further and further towards their chosen element.

Unattuned are often the caretakers of far-gone attuned who choose not to migrate to another plane, and for that reason operate houses that are suited to the four elements in four different wings.

The half-attuned go only partly out of balance, selecting two elements that are non-oppositional, and not burning out as fast. These get some of the abilities of each element, as well as some synergistic effects...

Jay R
2015-03-07, 10:02 AM
This sounds like an interesting new race. I only have one question.

Why are you calling them elves? That name carries meaning that does not apply. The most likely effect would be causing the playing to make meta-mistakes - mistakes that the PCS, having grown up in that world, would never make.

I really like the race. But I strongly recommend changing the name completely.

Valameer
2015-03-07, 03:22 PM
I agree, I usually leave elves, dwarves, humans, orcs, halflings, etc all as written. If a player really likes those concepts and decides to riff off them in their own way, that is up to them to do. I just leave them the option. Players usually know what elves and dwarves are and what they can expect from them. That is why those concepts work. You don't need to explain anything other than "these guys are elven rangers." If I say "two ulgoshi marmydons approach your party..." the players will need a pretty good explanation about what those words mean.

That is why we see the same Tolkienish, anachronistic European type settings coming up so often in fantasy. If I ride to a village on my horse and want to visit the tavern, we all know what that means and what I can expect there. If I zip on down with my beetlisk into the sky commune to visit the amphibathhouse, that gets a little fuzzier. But I'm drifting from the point...

Anyway, this sounds like an awesome idea for a new race. Maybe the race's origins could be somehow tied to the elves or something. Sorry, I don't have much to offer outside of this.

Oh, also I really like the idea that unattuned Elvori have a more primordial power over Fate (although a more difficult to control one) that they can manifest sometimes, but are ostracized from the rest of Elvori society. That sounds like an amazing player character concept. Maybe you should grow that a little bit so that it is a mechanically appealing option. I would get rid of the "can't reproduce" thing, too. I understand the analogy to puberty, and I think that analogy still works even if they could reproduce. A PCs father could have died young because he either couldn't or refused to attune. Maybe it was important to him that he didn't attune, but people don't understand the sacrifice he made. Well, now I'm just spitballing the idea.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-09, 07:47 AM
I re-imagined elves for my fantasy world (Still trying to write the stories) by changing up some basics about them. I changed the Mythos and most of the cultural identity. It helps differentiate them from nearly every other elf out there in fantasy.

Traditional/Modern Fantasy Elf: Nature lovers, best fighters, best at magic, always decent and good etc....

My Elves: Descended first off from mixings of ancient humans and orcs by the gods before the gods. They have a natural inclination towards being chaotic and are prone to be impulsive in action. They have the gift of charming magic that they can use to make humans like them better and can use it to manipulate humans. They view themselves as being the only civilization and everything/one else are animals. They only see Elves as worthy of concern or interest, which means they don't perceive other races as being of any concern and have a difficulty seeing them as being equal in thought to elves. If an elf wants something a human has, the elf just takes it. Elves cannot use Iron/steel objects, have a history of being cruel to other races-especially humans and dwarves, rarely live outside elven lands. They have rewritten their entire history to remove anything that suggests that they are the chosen of the gods and the embodiement of good.

They have a completely different morality than humans because they only apply morality to themselves. Humans have trouble comprehending them and vice versa.

Interesting!


I'd totally flip the attuned-unattuned advantages/disadvantages.

Tuning to an element - a single one - throws you severely out of balance, and burns through your lifeforce that much faster, as your unbalanced body tries to compensate and hold you together - eventually meaning that if you want to live, you eventually have to migrate to that elemental plane, or discorporate. You have a longer lifespan if you migrate to the elemental planes, since it's easier to sustain yourself in an environment more suited to your chosen element.

Unattuned do not get all the power, but because they remain in balance, they live much longer because they do not burn out. They can have children, which is more difficult for the attuned as they drift further and further towards their chosen element.

Unattuned are often the caretakers of far-gone attuned who choose not to migrate to another plane, and for that reason operate houses that are suited to the four elements in four different wings.

The half-attuned go only partly out of balance, selecting two elements that are non-oppositional, and not burning out as fast. These get some of the abilities of each element, as well as some synergistic effects...

That...is an interesting notion! I'll give you a little more of what I've been working on, because if I do go with that I'll likely have to rethink the following, but I'd like to see what you think of it as it is:

Progressive Power

As a seer ages and grows more experienced with their element, the area immediately around them takes on more and more the appearance of their attuned element. This is mainly a visual representation of the increasing amount of energy a seer is able to gather as they age. This "bubble of energy" is the energy that is stored for elemental manipulation. For earth, this could be an aura of dust or stillness, while fire might cause a ripple in the air or heat. Water may cause the air around a seer to be damp or cool, and an air seer would seem to always have a breeze around them. These characteristics increase as they age. When a seer of some notable power uses this energy, the effect can appear to be their figure clothed in the element they are attuned.

Elemental Energy

While the a seer has an increased capacity of energy they can gather as they progress, the element still must be drawn from a seer's environment. Each element acts differently, and so, each seer must be conscious of their element's fluctuations so that they can plan to use their element the most during times or areas in which they have the opportunity to replenish their energy. For example, if a fire seer was traveling through a frigid area, it would not be wise for them to expend all their energy quickly, since conditions would not be optimal for gathering more energy in such a climate.

Earth - Always a steady source of energy, never fluctuating. Comes in a constant stream. Absorbing energy from this element smooths out areas of terrain over time, creating flatter areas, or gradual slopes instead of rocky and rough terrain.

Water - A source of energy that accumulates, akin to a basin being filled with liquid. The energy within this basin can be tapped anytime while it is filling, and will continue to fill until it is at capacity. Any tapped energy while filling just sets back the accumulation. Absorbing energy from this element might make freezing areas a little more comfortable, or make tidal patterns calmer.

Wind - Always a fluctuating source of energy, never steady. Comes in a varying stream. Absorbing energy from this element might calm winds, or be protected from harsh winds.

Fire - A source of energy that dissipates, akin to fuel being burned away. The fuel will continue to burn away until it is burned out, and then new energy must be accumulated. Unlike water, energy cannot be tapped when it is being replenished with fire. Absorbing energy from this element might make seering hot areas cooler and more comfortable, or make active volcanos calmer.

The Embrace

After a seer reaches a certain age, they gain enough latent energy to perform an act known as "The Embrace". The Embrace is when a seer who is at full elemental charge unites with the energy around them. The aura around them consolidates to cover a seer's body, and they take on a form resembling a creature consisting totally of the attuned element. When in this form, a seer receives major advances to the capacity at which they can manipulate their element.

Wielding this power is no easy feat, however. Merging with the elements in this way is addictive, and can have destructive consequences for repeated use. A seer that is not careful within this state could lose control. If this happens while actively manipulating an element, there may be unexpected affects, such as causing bodily harm to the seer within the embrace, or even to others nearby. It could even have explosive consequences, such as creating a localized disaster, such as flooding, wind storms, flash fires, or landslides. If one is killed during an Embrace, or by the negative affects of an Embrace that has gotten out of control, they are devoured by the element. The Embrace will rip them apart and leave no trace behind.

Further, the more addicted a seer becomes to the Embrace, the more that seer's personality begins to embody that of their element. Earth seers become increasingly stubborn and unrelenting. Fire seer's tend to become increasily easy to anger. Air seers become unfocused and easily distracted.
Water seers become more apathetic, calm, and disinterested. These are certainly not sudden occurances, and wear off over extended periods of resisting embrace.

These negative affects do not cause Embracing to become taboo in the Elvori society. Embracing is often a necessary task. A seer's education impresses moderation for this sacred technique.

The Final Embrace

At the end of a seer's life, a seer with enough energy can perform an act known as the "Final Embrace" where they become one with their element of attunement. It is essentially merging with the Elemental Expanse.


I hope you'll forgive me starting off with a question; if you don't want elves, why make up something else and call that elves instead? *shrug* Never really understood the whole drive to 'reimagine' something, but I guess that's just me. That being said, in one story I wrote, I tweaked elves a little, making them basically walking plants, but that was more for a twist ending than anything else.

This sounds like an interesting new race. I only have one question.

Why are you calling them elves? That name carries meaning that does not apply. The most likely effect would be causing the playing to make meta-mistakes - mistakes that the PCS, having grown up in that world, would never make.

I really like the race. But I strongly recommend changing the name completely.

I agree, I usually leave elves, dwarves, humans, orcs, halflings, etc all as written. If a player really likes those concepts and decides to riff off them in their own way, that is up to them to do. I just leave them the option. Players usually know what elves and dwarves are and what they can expect from them. That is why those concepts work. You don't need to explain anything other than "these guys are elven rangers." If I say "two ulgoshi marmydons approach your party..." the players will need a pretty good explanation about what those words mean.

That is why we see the same Tolkienish, anachronistic European type settings coming up so often in fantasy. If I ride to a village on my horse and want to visit the tavern, we all know what that means and what I can expect there. If I zip on down with my beetlisk into the sky commune to visit the amphibathhouse, that gets a little fuzzier. But I'm drifting from the point...

Anyway, this sounds like an awesome idea for a new race. Maybe the race's origins could be somehow tied to the elves or something. Sorry, I don't have much to offer outside of this.

On the subject of why reimagine elves, rather than create a brand new race...

Basically, the concept is take the mythos that people generally understand for different staples of fantasy, and use it against them. Think of it like visiting an alternate reality, where everything seems similar, but you don't really understand what's going on, because everything is different, but familiar.

For instance, dragons in my world are a sentient race, with language, culture, cities. The criminals of these dragons are exiled, and are the ones that generally cause havok in the rest of the world. The reason dragons are scene as evil monsters, is because most dragons humans experience are these exiled criminals, half feral. Centaurs and other half human half something else creatures are beings cursed by magic, not made by two creatures from either half getting it on. After the curse, they forgot who they were, and acted as if they'd always been this race. Pretty dark stuff.

Magic as a concept is different, so not exactly what they understand it to be, ect. Basically, playing with the subject at discovery. Allowing the people that are discovering my world to be surprised, while making things feel familiar.

And also, in my experience, if I make a brand new race that reminds people of elves, I'm going to basically get the question - so they're kinda like elves, right? Darned if I do, Darned if I don't.


As far as Wombat's Elfementals (... er, Elvori) go, another way to run with things is to do the colour-changing thing someone suggested, with the various attunements giving whatever colours (I'd go sea green for water, brown for earth, orange-red for fire, and sky blue for air, but again, just me), while the unattuned, whether Scribe or child, are pure white. I'd also expect the Scribes to morphogenically resemble eunuchs (softer proportions, tendency towards chubbiness, that kind of thing), although having them stay largely childlike instead could work too- go for the 'uncannily wise child' thing.

I lol'd at the elf-ementals comment. :smallbiggrin:

I've got two ways of thinking with the skin color. One way of thinking is that each group of elvori has a certain skin color, and its a more recent thing that elvori choose something different from their herritage. For instance, the skin color of a child of two different attunements would take on physical features (at least in skin tone) to their parents. But I'm not sure. I don't know what the implications would be to making all of the elves start off as pale skinned, and want to give them some variance even before they attune, and make the difference more pronounced as they attune and so on.


Oh, also I really like the idea that unattuned Elvori have a more primordial power over Fate (although a more difficult to control one) that they can manifest sometimes, but are ostracized from the rest of Elvori society. That sounds like an amazing player character concept. Maybe you should grow that a little bit so that it is a mechanically appealing option. I would get rid of the "can't reproduce" thing, too. I understand the analogy to puberty, and I think that analogy still works even if they could reproduce. A PCs father could have died young because he either couldn't or refused to attune. Maybe it was important to him that he didn't attune, but people don't understand the sacrifice he made. Well, now I'm just spitballing the idea.

Yeah, I like the concept as well, thank you! That's an interesting point, and from a character's perspective, it would lead to some interesting roleplaying things. I'll think on it. I just feel that there has to be a major sacrifice for not attuning...though I guess the shorter life span thing would be that. I'll think on it.


Do they eat children? :P

I'm...I'm sorry? What?

Geddy2112
2015-03-09, 09:37 AM
Interesting!

Basically, the concept is take the mythos that people generally understand for different staples of fantasy, and use it against them. Think of it like visiting an alternate reality, where everything seems similar, but you don't really understand what's going on, because everything is different, but familiar.


I like that you are doing this. I once played in a campaign where Orcs were one of the smartest and most advanced races around, with a large empire(similar to Ancient China) while Elves lived in cities similar to Victorian England.

If you are familiar with pathfinder/using pathfinder, the "elemental" races would be a great template to use for your Reworked elves. The ifirits, undines, oreads and slyphs all represent humanoids with ties to fire, water, earth and air respectively. You could say that each of these is an attuned elf of the respective element.

Links FYI
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-undinehttp://
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ifrit
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-oread
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-sylph

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-09, 10:45 AM
I like that you are doing this. I once played in a campaign where Orcs were one of the smartest and most advanced races around, with a large empire(similar to Ancient China) while Elves lived in cities similar to Victorian England.

If you are familiar with pathfinder/using pathfinder, the "elemental" races would be a great template to use for your Reworked elves. The ifirits, undines, oreads and slyphs all represent humanoids with ties to fire, water, earth and air respectively. You could say that each of these is an attuned elf of the respective element.

Links FYI
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-undinehttp://
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ifrit
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-oread
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-sylph

I'll have to look at these when I get home. Can't access them where I am. But yeah, I like taking "fantasy tropes" and spinning them in a new and interesting way. Give more flavor to them. Sometimes the result is the same as if I didn't spin them - Dragons are still monsters to fight, for instance - but it has a more immersive and rich background.

Trevortni
2015-03-09, 03:24 PM
The question that stands out the most to me is, what if an Elvori attunes to more than one element? I mean, they're governed by four separate glands, right? And the unused ones don't atrophy until the tempering is complete? Perhaps an elf could, through design or accident, activate multiple glands and start tempering in multiple ways.

You would probably want some drawbacks if you allow this, though (and if you don't allow this, some very good reasons/reasoning). Perhaps Wind/Water and Earth/Fire pairs are easier, but any dual classing will take its toll on the subject in some way. Maybe shortened lifespan, or physical defects, which can be unpredictable, as the hormones try to do conflicting things to the physiology? Maybe trying to do three at a time is nearly impossible to survive (though there are rumors of a sage sequestered behind a waterfall in the mountains who beat the odds on a Wind/Water/Earth tempering)? Maybe any Elvori who tries to undergo all four simply implodes in a flash of magic, but legend tells of a great leader from the last Age who was graced by the gods to become an avatar (sorry, couldn't resist) of all the elements, and has promised to come again when he/she is most needed?

Also, since we're speaking in terms of hormones here, what happens if an adult Elvori is injected with the secretions of a foreign (or his/her own) element? A child Elvori? An Unattuned Elvori? An Elvori going through the Attunement of any given element?

Someone of a completely different race altogether?

Is there a Black Market for the stuff? Do (Evil) people of other races hunt Elvori for their hormones or glands? What are its physical properties in extract? Do Fire hormones look like fire, and so on? Does it do what they think it does? Maybe it just gets people high, or gives them temporary powers at a cost? Maybe it's sold as an aphrodisiac, but actually does something else entirely?

Egad, there are so many possibilities here!

Joe the Rat
2015-03-10, 09:25 AM
I'm digging the "gnomes for unattuned elves" idea. It adds stature (and possibly a size category) to the attunement/maturation process.


This sounds like an interesting new race. I only have one question.

Why are you calling them elves? That name carries meaning that does not apply. The most likely effect would be causing the playing to make meta-mistakes - mistakes that the PCS, having grown up in that world, would never make.

I really like the race. But I strongly recommend changing the name completely.


On the subject of why reimagine elves, rather than create a brand new race...

Basically, the concept is take the mythos that people generally understand for different staples of fantasy, and use it against them. Think of it like visiting an alternate reality, where everything seems similar, but you don't really understand what's going on, because everything is different, but familiar.
<snip>
And also, in my experience, if I make a brand new race that reminds people of elves, I'm going to basically get the question - so they're kinda like elves, right? Darned if I do, Darned if I don't.

It's what I call Conservation of Concept Space. If they share many base traits with "standard" elves, fill a world-niche normally taken by elves (long lived & magical, tree huggers, xenophobic airship fleet pilots, etc.), and you don't have normal elves, call them elves. It gives players a touchstone to recognize the common elements (pointy-eared, long-lived, magical), and lets you highlight were things are different from the norm (technology-using, sonar based darkvision, Wombat's elemental attunement, etc.). It's playing with and changing the elements of that common concept that gives your world its unique spin.

And face it, you give the race a unique name, with consistent internal grammar and its own alphabet, and your players will still give them a familiar name for reference. Call it a runner-beast, but unless it is somehow significantly different from what a horse looks like (six legged, reptilian, eats meat), the players will call it a horse. To an extent, you should assume there's a translation convention in play: the names we use for things reflect the player's understanding, not the spoken names in whatever "Common" sounds like.

That's not to say don't bother - it helps build the world to have different names for things, particularly if there's an internal logic to it, or multiple languages are in play, or you want to emphasize something is not familiar to the characters. The trick is to give the players enough familiar anchors that they can get their head into the world, but with enough differences to make the world come alive as its own unique thing. It's a tricky balance, and one I haven't mastered.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-10, 09:27 AM
The question that stands out the most to me is, what if an Elvori attunes to more than one element? I mean, they're governed by four separate glands, right? And the unused ones don't atrophy until the tempering is complete? Perhaps an elf could, through design or accident, activate multiple glands and start tempering in multiple ways.

You would probably want some drawbacks if you allow this, though (and if you don't allow this, some very good reasons/reasoning). Perhaps Wind/Water and Earth/Fire pairs are easier, but any dual classing will take its toll on the subject in some way. Maybe shortened lifespan, or physical defects, which can be unpredictable, as the hormones try to do conflicting things to the physiology? Maybe trying to do three at a time is nearly impossible to survive (though there are rumors of a sage sequestered behind a waterfall in the mountains who beat the odds on a Wind/Water/Earth tempering)? Maybe any Elvori who tries to undergo all four simply implodes in a flash of magic, but legend tells of a great leader from the last Age who was graced by the gods to become an avatar (sorry, couldn't resist) of all the elements, and has promised to come again when he/she is most needed?

Good question. The answer? They can't always do it, only when it hits the right conditions.

Secondary Attunement

Commonly, a seer only attunes to one element, but under certain conditions, two attunements can be attained. The force of Fate must be in power for someone to have multiple attunements, because during this time, a seer's connection to the elements is closer, and capable of more. As a note, Ultimate Fate can only be accomplished in an Age of Fate as well.

If a seer chooses to attune to multiple elements, they must first be already attuned to an element. This is because the process of attunement is a dedicated and complex process. Trying to do two at once would be to counteract the efforts that must be involved. Due to the relationship a seer has with their element, a secondary attunement cannot be an opposite element. So, if a seer was attuned to water, they could choose for a secondary element earth or wind, but they could not attune to fire. This rule is also why a seer could not attune to a third element, because any other element after the first two attunements would be an opposing element.

A seer who has accomplished two attunements has the same amount of power as someone who is only attuned to one, which means they must divide this power between the two. A seer can choose to have both of their elements a similar level of power with each other (1/2 and 1/2), or have one compliment the other (1/4 vs. 3/4). It should be noted that a seer must choose their second attunement before they reach adulthood, or they will not be able to do so.


Also, since we're speaking in terms of hormones here, what happens if an adult Elvori is injected with the secretions of a foreign (or his/her own) element? A child Elvori? An Unattuned Elvori? An Elvori going through the Attunement of any given element?

Someone of a completely different race altogether?

Is there a Black Market for the stuff? Do (Evil) people of other races hunt Elvori for their hormones or glands? What are its physical properties in extract? Do Fire hormones look like fire, and so on? Does it do what they think it does? Maybe it just gets people high, or gives them temporary powers at a cost? Maybe it's sold as an aphrodisiac, but actually does something else entirely?

Egad, there are so many possibilities here!

If it was after the process of tempering were completed, it would likely kill them. Or perhaps reactivate the tempering process. I'm not sure. There's a lot of options I could go with. Ultimately, science isn't at the level where someone would think of it as an idea to inject hormones.

As far as the exact look of these hormones, what do normal hormones look like? Anything?

It would be neat to have some sort of flavor for these hormones, but part of me is not sure I want to color code them for convinience. Still, the idea of people hunting elves to try and medically gain something, that certainly could be a thing. I'll have to think on it a bit, but you're right, its a gold mine...

Karl Aegis
2015-03-10, 02:19 PM
Hunting down elvori and using their innards to make either super-humans or giant robots seems to be the most logical course of action for human leaders. What isn't human doesn't really matter in the long run. Better to use them than waste them.

BootStrapTommy
2015-03-10, 02:34 PM
3) Grey aliens. They're not quite hairless, big-headed and expressionless, but they're close. Sort of a flat, uncanny valley sort of look that marks them as clearly not human, and not entirely formed. Like Eberron changelings. As if they have yet to be sculpted.

Trevortni
2015-03-10, 03:02 PM
If it was after the process of tempering were completed, it would likely kill them. Or perhaps reactivate the tempering process. I'm not sure. There's a lot of options I could go with. Ultimately, science isn't at the level where someone would think of it as an idea to inject hormones.

As far as the exact look of these hormones, what do normal hormones look like? Anything?

It would be neat to have some sort of flavor for these hormones, but part of me is not sure I want to color code them for convinience. Still, the idea of people hunting elves to try and medically gain something, that certainly could be a thing. I'll have to think on it a bit, but you're right, its a gold mine...

In more ways than one!

Anyway, if science isn't to the level of extracting the hormones, they could just go for the glands themselves. If you do decide to do the extract, it could always be expressed in the same way natural oils are expressed, like cod liver oil and whatnot else (note to self: wiki how cod liver oil is extracted). You're probably right that real-world hormones don't look like the function they promote; but then, this isn't the real world, is it?

Vereshti
2015-03-10, 08:04 PM
The old idea of humorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism) might be interesting to consider here, with the four humors correlated to four personality types: blood (sanguine), yellow bile (choleric), black bile (melancholic), and phlegm (phlegmatic). These also correlate to the elements of air, fire, earth, and water, respectively. With the Elvori, tempering might involve the humor correlating to the chosen element becoming dominant.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-11, 06:46 AM
When I was first looking up the classical elements, I came acrossed those. I might name the "hormones" after them, but likely that's as far as the influence will go. It was a bit strange.

Anyway, other than what the Elvori will look like, what would their culture look like? We've basically got 4 factions of people all living among each other, plus the unnattuned. How would these groups interact. Would they be separated? Together? I feel that at one time they would have been separate, and eventually they unified a bit more into a melting pot. But from there I'm not sure where to go.

Joe the Rat
2015-03-11, 10:42 AM
Is having medibabble important to the setting? It adds some "reality" to the tempering process, but unless you have a relatively modern understanding of physiology and biochemistry, "changes in the balance of humours" is probably sufficient. Or altering the attunement and buildup of the essential elemental energies. Or needs more Od. If you want to downplay the potential organlegging, the widespread changes could easily be regulated by a single gland. It's not like having one gland that regulates a multitude of functions, and is key to initiating physiological changes related to maturation is unheard of...

You can have a lot of fun with misapplied science.Finding permanent anti-magic zones and 24-hour bound-and-gagged an impractical way to deal with spell-casting prisoners, I added Mugglewort to my setting. It's a relatively uncommon marsh plant, that when properly prepared, can be made into a potent (and unmaskably astringent-tasting) tea that inhibits spellcasting for 24 hours. You could make an injury poison out of the extract (putting the chemicals directly into the blood stream), but the effects would last a minute at most, with saves every round.

Why is the injected poison weaker? The extract works by blocking neurothaumic receptors - the mechanism by which organic brains access magic. Digestion slightly alters the shape of these chemicals (digestive enzymes stripping of an odd amino chain or something) such that they bind to the receptors rather than briefly blocking them. This closes them down for long periods rather than creating brief interference. Mind you, I explained it as "The digestion of the extract strengthens the essences which cloud the caster's mind from his or her magics," as is fitting the modern-medieval themed doctor/Cleric (He injects healing potions with an alarmingly archaic syringe, and then asks for a copay. We don't want to know why his medical kit includes a bellows).

Okay, so it was Mugglewort or Faraday Cages. I opted for the portable potable.

On Culture: Consider that each Tempered will have different specialized capabilities, meaning each may be better suited to a particular activity tied to a particular role or position in society. Perhaps at one point these were absolute (cooking uses fire; so all bakers and chefs and whatnot must be fire-tempered. Including the guy that makes gelato.), but in places where the tempered ability is not actually necessary, it is more of a tradition (or stereotype) that certain Tempers do certain things. a parallel class/caste system might be a point to consider, with the lines blending or breaking down.

The fact that Temper is not biologically hereditary would lead more towards a society where family is less important than your attunement, or one in which you are expected to attune in the line of your forebears. communal child-rearing may be a factor either way. Exactly how "adult" the unattuned are (or which group can reproduce) will effect a lot of this. They may be the core of the society, covering much of how the Elvori live and work and play, with the Tempered taking more specialized roles. Or the Tempered are the mainstay, with the Untempered being more like students - making those who opt to remain so like eternal college sophomores.

illyahr
2015-03-11, 11:11 AM
In Chinese mythology, there were five elements. In addition to the classic 4, there was Void, which was the non-element, the binding element that filled in the gaps between the other 4. Ether, if you will. Perhaps the ones that don't Attune are, in fact, Attuning to the Void element?

They would be the reverse polarity of those that Attune to the 4 elements which give them the ability to negate and contain, which goes along with them being able to manipulate those Premonition Sites you spoke of.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-11, 11:26 AM
In Chinese mythology, there were five elements. In addition to the classic 4, there was Void, which was the non-element, the binding element that filled in the gaps between the other 4. Ether, if you will. Perhaps the ones that don't Attune are, in fact, Attuning to the Void element?

They would be the reverse polarity of those that Attune to the 4 elements which give them the ability to negate and contain, which goes along with them being able to manipulate those Premonition Sites you spoke of.

That's essentially what the idea boils down to, though I've made the converse of the the elements living things. Basically, a whole new ballgame, since living things are complex combinations of elements, and contain all four simultaneously. I call this - Luck.

But the void? Yeah, basically I attribute that with that closer connection to fate itself, rather than an aspect of it.

Gritmonger
2015-03-11, 12:02 PM
That's essentially what the idea boils down to, though I've made the converse of the the elements living things. Basically, a whole new ballgame, since living things are complex combinations of elements, and contain all four simultaneously. I call this - Luck.

But the void? Yeah, basically I attribute that with that closer connection to fate itself, rather than an aspect of it.

Uh, Chinese elements were/are metal, wood, water, fire, earth - no air, no void, no ether...

Joe the Rat
2015-03-11, 12:09 PM
Uh, Chinese elements were/are metal, wood, water, fire, earth - no air, no void, no ether...

It's from the book of five rings. Beyond that, my brain has everything confounded by its use and abuse in other games.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-03-11, 12:20 PM
Uh, Chinese elements were/are metal, wood, water, fire, earth - no air, no void, no ether...

Yeah, I was responding to the words, not whether the citing was correct. :smallwink:

Trevortni
2015-03-11, 02:04 PM
Anyway, other than what the Elvori will look like, what would their culture look like? We've basically got 4 factions of people all living among each other, plus the unnattuned. How would these groups interact. Would they be separated? Together? I feel that at one time they would have been separate, and eventually they unified a bit more into a melting pot. But from there I'm not sure where to go.

If you're not too committed to previously being separate, you might reverse and have the history go in pretty much the exact opposite direction: What if the Elvori have only recently developed independent free will after previously having more of a hive mind kind of existence? In the past, Elvori attuned to whatever role was needed for the hive, possibly being fed different diets by the hivemembers responsible for overseeing the raising up of the young; but now, each Elvori gets to choose for themselves what they want to do.

Maybe this could explain why some remained unattuned, given your original idea of shortened lifespan (and making their connection to the fates more meaningful): the unattuned were what would be considered the ruling class in a non-hive setting, making administrative decisions (like this child-rearing, mating arrangements, where to seek food, when to split the hive, etc.), and even now are considered nobility because of their abilities to look at the big picture instead of focusing on only their personal areas of expertise.

illyahr
2015-03-11, 03:08 PM
Uh, Chinese elements were/are metal, wood, water, fire, earth - no air, no void, no ether...

Sorry, it was Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_elements_(Japanese_philosophy)) elements of Fire, Water, Air, Earth, and Void/Heaven. Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing) elements were fire, water, earth , metal and wood. My bad. :smallredface: