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View Full Version : So, uh, what exactly does Metaconcert do?



Aquillion
2007-04-09, 12:48 PM
I get what it's supposed to do, but not the actual mechanics of it. It says it creates a "mental entity" which knows all the powers of each participant and is under the command of the conductor. Fair enough. It says it creates a mental 'pool' of power points; while it doesn't actually say what that pool is used for (whoops), we can probably assume that this mental entity uses it to manifest those powers.

And then everything breaks down. Aside from all those abilities and having this pool of power points (and even that isn't actually stated), the power gives no description of this entity at all, and no description of how its abilities are supposed to be determined. What's its manifester level? Its key ability modifier? Does it have psionic focus / can it get psionic focus, and if so, what is its concentration score? Can it use metapsionic feats? Where is it? Hilariously, the power desc notes that this entity gets a +1 DC for its save difficulties and a +1 to its own saves for each participant, but fails to note the base saves and save DCs to apply these bonuses to.

It gets worse. Can the other participants in the metaconcert act normally? Can they attack or manifest powers of their own? All that metaconcert says is that they have to remain in range, so per RAW it seems like they can do whatever they want otherwise. What about the conductor? It just says that he controls the 'entity' above; he doesn't even have to concentrate or take any actions to do it. Guess he can act normally, too. Does this mean the group can manifest Metaconcert again and create a second entity while the first is still around?

And this is without even getting into the really thorny questions, like what happens if the joint entity manifests True Mind Switch or Schism, or tries to join a Metaconcert itself.

I'm not looking for houserules. Houseruling Forcecage or the Polymorph line to make them more balanced is one thing; those spells, though perhaps broken, at least give a generally usable description of what they do, enough to run them under the rules without everything crashing. Metaconcert, on the other hand, seems to leave out vital parts of its description, things that are necessary to use the power at all, ever. Is there anything in the rules as written, in other words, that would let you use metaconcert without having to basically invent it yourself?

...you can review its so-called description here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metaconcert.htm), for those of you who want a quick reference.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-09, 01:18 PM
Wow, yeah. If I HAD to run it I would say that the "entity" uses the manifester level and save DCs of the conductor, with the rest of the group adding PP, powers known, and DCs as described. The entity would act on the conductor's initiative, and causing it to act would be a standard action.

But yeah, that's houserules, so it doesn't really answer your request. But, unless the power has been clarified somewhere (which I suspect it hasn't, as D20SRD.org generally incorporates errata) that's the best you're going to get.

Ramza00
2007-04-09, 01:23 PM
Simply put there is no answer according to the rules, thus the DM has to rule it. Some customer service answers are provided in this below link (which is designed to abuse mental pinacle not metaconcert as a mathmatical exercise, but in the process I gathered some info up about metaconcert)

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=793447

Arbitrarity
2007-04-09, 01:23 PM
Let me see.

Until the power ends, this conductor directs the efforts of the group.
So he chooses what to do.

All the powers of each participant are known to the mental entity created with metaconcert (which is under the conductor’s command). This entity can’t take any more actions than a normal individual, but it manifests all its powers more effectively.

So the entity can manifest any power known to any member of the group.

Ah. I see. You treat the entity as a single character. (guesses begin here) The members can't take actions. The conductor tells it what to do.

I would guess the key manifesting ability would be the highest in the group, as the entity is an amalgamation of its parts. Same with manifester level.

Actually, probably just treat it as being the best of all characters in it. The conductor is part of the entity, and all characters in it are probably treated as concentrating on a power.

Nope, not really. As far as it's written, it's incomprehensible. I can make guesses about what it should do, but there's nothing supporting me.

Ramza00
2007-04-09, 01:28 PM
Here is the relevant text from the link I provided relating to metaconcert



Metaconcert Description

Metaconcert
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Psychic warrior 5, telepath 5
Display: Visual; see text
Manifesting Time: 1 minute
Range: 20 ft.
Target: You and up to nine other willing psionic creatures in range
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Power Points: 9

You link your psychic might with other psionic creatures, creating an entity more powerful than the sum of its parts.

When you manifest this power, a number of power points you designate flows from each participant into a collective pool. One individual is chosen as the metaconcert conductor by mutual consent of the other participants (this is usually the manifester, but doesn’t have to be). Until the power ends, this conductor directs the efforts of the group. Misty strands of glowing power link the brows of all the participants in a complex and shifting pattern.

All the powers of each participant are known to the mental entity created with metaconcert (which is under the conductor’s command). This entity can’t take any more actions than a normal individual, but it manifests all its powers more effectively. Each participant contributing to the entity provides a cumulative +1 bonus to save DCs that apply when manifesting a power or using a psi-like ability. Likewise, each individual provides a cumulative +1 bonus when the entity makes its own saving throws in response to powers or psi-like abilities.

If the psionic entity takes ability damage from a psionic attack the total is divided among all the members as determined by the conductor.

If the entity manifests a power that has an XP cost, all the participants pay an equal share (the conductor pays the remainder if the cost can’t be divided evenly).

Once linked, the participants must remain within a 20-foot-radius area, and as a group can move at a speed of 10 feet. If a participant moves outside the 20-foot-radius area occupied by the others (whether willingly or involuntarily), that individual drops out of the group, and the power point pool of the metaconcert is instantly recalculated.

All participants who leave before a metaconcert ends or is dismissed reclaim a number of power points equal to the current power point pool divided by the number of members. If the conductor drops out, the power ends. That same number of points is removed from the power point pool.

When a metaconcert ends normally or is dismissed, remaining power points in the pool are divided among all the participants (the conductor receives the remainder if the points can’t be divided evenly).

Augment
For every additional power point you spend, this power’s duration increases by 1 minute.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metaconcert.htm


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Metaconcert allows us access to more psionic powers besides the 5 given by Mental Pinnacle

Plus every person in the group adds 1 to the save DC of any power manifested by the psionic entity

Normally the 1 min casting time will make this power impossible to use in battle, but with the metapsionic feat Linked Power from Complete Psionic (you cast a power this turn, the linked power then goes off automatically next turn thus you don't have to worry about the 1 min manifesting time for its short circuited by link power) Metaconcert becomes usable in battle

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Note though Metaconcert is a power who doesn’t have all its info in the description namely. What is the Manifester level of the Entity and what is his intelligence modifier for DCs (we do know it gets a bonus to dcs due to the people in the metaconcert). Since it is not directly stated, we are going to have to do a house rule/interpretation, but a reasonable one though (via reading between the lines of the description).

House Rule/Interperation: The Manifester level and intelligence modifier for dcs is the one of the conductor.
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The Telepath will make the Arcane Caster who casts Mental Pinacle the conductor.
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Customer Service more or less agrees with this interpretation

Customer Service's response

Reference #
070215-000038
Customer XXXX 02/15/2007 07:56 AM
I got a question about the power Metaconcert located in the XPH/SRD. What is the Manifester Level of the psionic entity that is created by the "pooled minds"? It doesn't say what it is in the description.

Is it the highest manifester level?
Is it the manifester level of the conductor?
Or is it something else?

Response (Sam S.) 02/15/2007 05:06 PM
Hi there XXXX,

The rules are silent regarding this issue, so the DM will have to adjudicate a house rule to cover it. A common unofficial house rule is that the conductor's manifester level is used.


Take Care and Good Gaming! :)

We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you. Please click here to fill out a short questionnaire.

To login to your account, or update your question please click here.

Sam
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Wizards of the Coast
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Customer (XXXX) 02/15/2007 08:10 PM
May I make a suggestion? Can you send an e-mail/note to the people who are writting the rules compedium about this issue. This issue would be one that would be gladly helped by the upcomming supplement.

Response (Sam S.) 02/16/2007 09:29 AM
Hi there XXXX,

I have already passed this issue along to the appropriate departments for potential errata treatment. If the designers choose to implement this in future books, it's up to them. Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.


Take Care and Good Gaming! :)

We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you. Please click here to fill out a short questionnaire.

To login to your account, or update your question please click here.

Sam
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST

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For more info about Metaconcert and the Manifester level of the Entity go here,
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=746668

note they have a similar story
(Direct link to the individual post that talks about somebody’s else customer service ruling)
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10797387&postcount=16

If you read the entire post you will see other people also use the conductor's manifester level as the entity manifester level.